Best Class For...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Class For...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shedeo
04-19-07, 02:27 PM Okay, so in my up-and-coming campaign, I told my players to play whatever the heck they wanted, certain things (like Pun-Pun, for example) barred. The campaign is primarily for having fun, since its one that I'll be running for the local club at my college. There's going to be no world, just stuff that I make up as I go along.

Well, I recently let one of my close friends (whose only ever owned a PS2 and an X-Box 360) borrow my Super Nintendo and my game collection. He's also never played a console RPG in his life.

So, I was rather surprised when he found a fascination with Super Mario RPG.

Well, my "play whatever you want" stipulation came back to bite me in the behind here when my friend approached me and said that, after picking him up, he'd like to play Bowser (or I should say, a character based on him.) Needless to say, I was a little stunned. I saw the build that the CharOp boards had done for him, but that's a "little" too high for my game, speaking as we're starting from level 1.

I thought about it for a long while, and I came up with a Dragonborn (which was reflavored) X (Probably Dwarf) taking the Dragonscale Husk alternate feature from Dragon Magic. The only question is...

...What's the best class for Bowser? Looking for any suggestions, and thanks in advance. I'm a bit stuck at the moment.
Aggrenox
04-19-07, 02:37 PM Dragon Shaman. ^_^
Jaxgaret
04-19-07, 02:42 PM Dragon Shaman. ^_^

Definitely.
LordPendragon
04-19-07, 02:49 PM I'd probably play Bowser as a Feral Lizardfolk, but a Feral Dragonborn Dwarf would also fit the bill quite nicely. If you want to work Lizardfolk in, but you're starting at level 1 (it has +1 LA and 2 racial hit dice), then you can just start the player with 1 racial hit die and all numerical bonuses from the template reduced by 2. At level 2, the bonuses that were reduced would increase back to their normal values (with no hit die or class level gained), and then at 3rd level the player would be forced to take a 2nd racial hit die.

As for class levels, Barbarian works all the way. Possibly even into Frenzied Berserker eventually (since we all know how mean Bowser is). If not multiclassing, I'd suggest taking the Berserker Strength variant from PHBII, to imitate how Bowser always gets insane in boss fights after you hit him a few times.

No matter what, though, Bowser is totally feral.
Tempest Stormwind
04-19-07, 02:51 PM http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6708608&postcount=97
Shedeo
04-19-07, 03:06 PM After talking to the player, he's opted to go with, instead of a Dwarf, an Orc, because they have less to lose from becoming Dragonborn (again, ignoring the fluff) and they have the strength required for a "bowser" build. I looked at the Lizardfolk entry and presented it to him, but he decided he'd rather go with the Orc instead.

On the Feral template, unfortunately its one of the things that I've said "No" to on numerous occasions, at least at that level adjustment. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it just seems a bit powerful.

The Berserker Strength variant seems very appropriate, actually. If he decides to go Barbarian, I'll allow him to use Dragonscale Husk if he takes the armor proficiency as his first-level feat. He's also said he's going with, very likely, Spiked Chain as his weapon.
periscope
04-19-07, 03:25 PM It could have been worse. He could have been a half ogre and take combat reflexes with the spiked chain. Or he could have asked to play the doll guy.
Aggrenox
04-19-07, 03:28 PM Dragon Shaman has fire breath. :dragon:
Shedeo
04-19-07, 03:56 PM Another suggestion that I made, even though I don't particularly like it, was using Warblade for him. I said that I'd allow him to supplement his Claw attacks for any style that used Unarmed Strike. I also allowed him to use Setting Sun with the Warblade if he wanted. He said he'd take a look at it, but he's not too keen on ToB.

Dragon Shaman is good, and I like that one very much for him. He could take the Mind aspect for his Dragonborn trait instead of Heart and use the Breath Weapon that way. Either way, he's contemplating Reaping Mauler since its grappling-based.
Peregrine_Wolf
04-19-07, 04:19 PM I suggest making a custom race and class for Bowser to take =p
Braekor Dragonfang
04-19-07, 04:24 PM I came up with this off the top of my head since in SMRPG bowser swung around a chain chomp.

Chain Chomp
Exotic weapon
1d8 piercing
20/x2 crit
10ft reach, can be used against adjacent foes
Can make a grapple check on a struck opponent (add enhancement bonus if any), if successful, the chain chomp deals an additional 1d8 piercing + 1/2 str each round the grapple is maintained, can drop chain chomp while grappling and continue to fight, but the opponent gains a +4 bonus on it's grapple checks vs the chain chomp, and any enemy may retrieve the chain chomp and force an end to the grapple.
Tempest Stormwind
04-19-07, 04:38 PM I suggest making a custom race and class for Bowser to take =p

Do people not read my links or something? There were two variant full-on Bowser builds there, for the two versions of him that have appeared (the early versions where he literally 'used his black magic' (quote from Super Mario Brothers NES manual) to turn the denizens of the mushroom kingdom into bricks and horsehair plants, and the later versions where he's more feral). In one they even went with a custom race (snapping turtle + anthropomorphic template) as the basis.
Peregrine_Wolf
04-19-07, 05:03 PM Nope :w00t:
Aggrenox
04-19-07, 05:49 PM Dagron Shamoon!

Also, use tempests races.
Shedeo
04-20-07, 12:44 AM Sorry Tempest, I totally forgot to reply to you. My apoligies. Anyway, I've seen those builds before, as I said in the History section above. The problem with those builds is that we're starting from level 1, and this needs to be doable from that level, at least in part. Maybe not the whole thing, but at least some tough melee ability and a breath weapon.

What does everyone think of letting him go Warblade with it? I think it works decently enough, using Tiger Claw, Setting Sun, and Stone Dragon (I think.) All the ones that allow unarmed strike, I mean. I would let him use Claw instead of Unarmed Strike. The only problem is that I don't think that Dragonborn have claws, and I think that it would really be nice for him to... I dunno, would it be terribly broken to, maybe, create a new "path" for the Dragonborn where they get natural weapons? Perhaps called "Draconic Body" or some such?
LordPendragon
04-20-07, 12:50 AM The only problem is that I don't think that Dragonborn have claws, and I think that it would really be nice for him to... I dunno, would it be terribly broken to, maybe, create a new "path" for the Dragonborn where they get natural weapons? Perhaps called "Draconic Body" or some such?
Ah, the joys of being feral... If you want him to have claws, then give him claws. The only stipulation is that they are aesthetic claws; they can deal slashing damage instead of bludgeoning, but other than that they count as unarmed strikes for all purposes (including damage).

I thought he wanted to use the spiked chain anyways??

If you want to be creative about it, you could stat out a level progression for one of the higher LA options, such as Dragonkin or Half-Dragon. Examples of such things are in Savage Species; basically, it's like a class progression, but some levels don't get an extra HD, some don't get skills, and the "class features" are a breakdown of what the template usually gives.

For instance, a breakdown of the half-dragon template might look like this...
Lvl Features
1 Str +2, Cha +2, Breath Weapon (2D8), NA +1, ER 10, Claws
2 Str +2, Int +2, Breath Weapon (4D8), NA +1, ER 20, Bite, Wings, Darkvision
3 Str +4, Int +2, Breath Weapon (6D8), NA +2, Energy Immunity, Sleep/Paralysis Immunity, Dragon type, Racial HD augmentation
Shedeo
04-20-07, 12:58 AM Yeah, I remember level progression templates. He did want to use spiked chain, but he doesn't really like them. He said he'd much rather use claws. I did think about the cosmetic appearance of the unarmed strike, which opens up a lot of options, specially since that means less work overall for me. ^-^

Though, on the subject of Natural Weapons, the Thayan Gladiator is pretty sweet. Thanks for the link, Tempest, if not just for that.

And for the record, that Chain Chomp is pretty sweet.
Braekor Dragonfang
04-20-07, 10:06 PM And for the record, that Chain Chomp is pretty sweet.

thanks, though it only took me about ten seconds to think it up and another 50 to type it :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shedeo 04-19-07, 02:27 PM	Okay, so in my up-and-coming campaign, I told my players to play whatever the heck they wanted, certain things (like Pun-Pun, for example) barred. The campaign is primarily for having fun, since its one that I'll be running for the local club at my college. There's going to be no world, just stuff that I make up as I go along. Well, I recently let one of my close friends (whose only ever owned a PS2 and an X-Box 360) borrow my Super Nintendo and my game collection. He's also never played a console RPG in his life. So, I was rather surprised when he found a fascination with Super Mario RPG. Well, my "play whatever you want" stipulation came back to bite me in the behind here when my friend approached me and said that, after picking him up, he'd like to play Bowser (or I should say, a character based on him.) Needless to say, I was a little stunned. I saw the build that the CharOp boards had done for him, but that's a "little" too high for my game, speaking as we're starting from level 1. I thought about it for a long while, and I came up with a Dragonborn (which was reflavored) X (Probably Dwarf) taking the Dragonscale Husk alternate feature from Dragon Magic. The only question is... ...What's the best class for Bowser? Looking for any suggestions, and thanks in advance. I'm a bit stuck at the moment.
Aggrenox 04-19-07, 02:37 PM	Dragon Shaman. ^_^
Jaxgaret 04-19-07, 02:42 PM	Dragon Shaman. ^_^ Definitely.
LordPendragon 04-19-07, 02:49 PM	I'd probably play Bowser as a Feral Lizardfolk, but a Feral Dragonborn Dwarf would also fit the bill quite nicely. If you want to work Lizardfolk in, but you're starting at level 1 (it has +1 LA and 2 racial hit dice), then you can just start the player with 1 racial hit die and all numerical bonuses from the template reduced by 2. At level 2, the bonuses that were reduced would increase back to their normal values (with no hit die or class level gained), and then at 3rd level the player would be forced to take a 2nd racial hit die. As for class levels, Barbarian works all the way. Possibly even into Frenzied Berserker eventually (since we all know how mean Bowser is). If not multiclassing, I'd suggest taking the Berserker Strength variant from PHBII, to imitate how Bowser always gets insane in boss fights after you hit him a few times. No matter what, though, Bowser is totally feral.
Tempest Stormwind 04-19-07, 02:51 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6708608&postcount=97
Shedeo 04-19-07, 03:06 PM	After talking to the player, he's opted to go with, instead of a Dwarf, an Orc, because they have less to lose from becoming Dragonborn (again, ignoring the fluff) and they have the strength required for a "bowser" build. I looked at the Lizardfolk entry and presented it to him, but he decided he'd rather go with the Orc instead. On the Feral template, unfortunately its one of the things that I've said "No" to on numerous occasions, at least at that level adjustment. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it just seems a bit powerful. The Berserker Strength variant seems very appropriate, actually. If he decides to go Barbarian, I'll allow him to use Dragonscale Husk if he takes the armor proficiency as his first-level feat. He's also said he's going with, very likely, Spiked Chain as his weapon.
periscope 04-19-07, 03:25 PM	It could have been worse. He could have been a half ogre and take combat reflexes with the spiked chain. Or he could have asked to play the doll guy.
Aggrenox 04-19-07, 03:28 PM	Dragon Shaman has fire breath. :dragon:
Shedeo 04-19-07, 03:56 PM	Another suggestion that I made, even though I don't particularly like it, was using Warblade for him. I said that I'd allow him to supplement his Claw attacks for any style that used Unarmed Strike. I also allowed him to use Setting Sun with the Warblade if he wanted. He said he'd take a look at it, but he's not too keen on ToB. Dragon Shaman is good, and I like that one very much for him. He could take the Mind aspect for his Dragonborn trait instead of Heart and use the Breath Weapon that way. Either way, he's contemplating Reaping Mauler since its grappling-based.
Peregrine_Wolf 04-19-07, 04:19 PM	I suggest making a custom race and class for Bowser to take =p
Braekor Dragonfang 04-19-07, 04:24 PM	I came up with this off the top of my head since in SMRPG bowser swung around a chain chomp. Chain Chomp Exotic weapon 1d8 piercing 20/x2 crit 10ft reach, can be used against adjacent foes Can make a grapple check on a struck opponent (add enhancement bonus if any), if successful, the chain chomp deals an additional 1d8 piercing + 1/2 str each round the grapple is maintained, can drop chain chomp while grappling and continue to fight, but the opponent gains a +4 bonus on it's grapple checks vs the chain chomp, and any enemy may retrieve the chain chomp and force an end to the grapple.
Tempest Stormwind 04-19-07, 04:38 PM	I suggest making a custom race and class for Bowser to take =p Do people not read my links or something? There were two variant full-on Bowser builds there, for the two versions of him that have appeared (the early versions where he literally 'used his black magic' (quote from Super Mario Brothers NES manual) to turn the denizens of the mushroom kingdom into bricks and horsehair plants, and the later versions where he's more feral). In one they even went with a custom race (snapping turtle + anthropomorphic template) as the basis.
Peregrine_Wolf 04-19-07, 05:03 PM	Nope :w00t:
Aggrenox 04-19-07, 05:49 PM	Dagron Shamoon! Also, use tempests races.
Shedeo 04-20-07, 12:44 AM	Sorry Tempest, I totally forgot to reply to you. My apoligies. Anyway, I've seen those builds before, as I said in the History section above. The problem with those builds is that we're starting from level 1, and this needs to be doable from that level, at least in part. Maybe not the whole thing, but at least some tough melee ability and a breath weapon. What does everyone think of letting him go Warblade with it? I think it works decently enough, using Tiger Claw, Setting Sun, and Stone Dragon (I think.) All the ones that allow unarmed strike, I mean. I would let him use Claw instead of Unarmed Strike. The only problem is that I don't think that Dragonborn have claws, and I think that it would really be nice for him to... I dunno, would it be terribly broken to, maybe, create a new "path" for the Dragonborn where they get natural weapons? Perhaps called "Draconic Body" or some such?
LordPendragon 04-20-07, 12:50 AM	The only problem is that I don't think that Dragonborn have claws, and I think that it would really be nice for him to... I dunno, would it be terribly broken to, maybe, create a new "path" for the Dragonborn where they get natural weapons? Perhaps called "Draconic Body" or some such? Ah, the joys of being feral... If you want him to have claws, then give him claws. The only stipulation is that they are aesthetic claws; they can deal slashing damage instead of bludgeoning, but other than that they count as unarmed strikes for all purposes (including damage). I thought he wanted to use the spiked chain anyways?? If you want to be creative about it, you could stat out a level progression for one of the higher LA options, such as Dragonkin or Half-Dragon. Examples of such things are in Savage Species; basically, it's like a class progression, but some levels don't get an extra HD, some don't get skills, and the "class features" are a breakdown of what the template usually gives. For instance, a breakdown of the half-dragon template might look like this... Lvl Features 1 Str +2, Cha +2, Breath Weapon (2D8), NA +1, ER 10, Claws 2 Str +2, Int +2, Breath Weapon (4D8), NA +1, ER 20, Bite, Wings, Darkvision 3 Str +4, Int +2, Breath Weapon (6D8), NA +2, Energy Immunity, Sleep/Paralysis Immunity, Dragon type, Racial HD augmentation
Shedeo 04-20-07, 12:58 AM	Yeah, I remember level progression templates. He did want to use spiked chain, but he doesn't really like them. He said he'd much rather use claws. I did think about the cosmetic appearance of the unarmed strike, which opens up a lot of options, specially since that means less work overall for me. ^-^ Though, on the subject of Natural Weapons, the Thayan Gladiator is pretty sweet. Thanks for the link, Tempest, if not just for that. And for the record, that Chain Chomp is pretty sweet.
Braekor Dragonfang 04-20-07, 10:06 PM	And for the record, that Chain Chomp is pretty sweet. thanks, though it only took me about ten seconds to think it up and another 50 to type it :D