Best Classes for..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Classes for..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Flay Crimsonwind
08-11-06, 07:57 PM A Guy that uses 2 bastard swords. I wanna try this out, just to prove to my DM that they're not hopeless. Ohter than tempest, I've considered streetfighter, since extra innitiative and the ability to lessen lethal damage is awesome. He's a fighter Rogue starting, for extra feats and uncanny dodge. But what are the best classes to max out his power? To review:

He's a human with a high dex and strength, mid con and intel, and low cha and wis.

Fighter/Rogue so far, probably only 7 or 8 levels of, just for uncanny dodge.

Wields 2 bastard swords.

Now what can I do for him?

--edit-- I meant to put this in the character development thread, my bad.....
ElIsRa
08-11-06, 08:18 PM I think you are spreading your character out too thin. Something more like Fighter/Tempest/Duelist should work better. Taking levels of Duelist to benefit from your lack of armor from the Tempest, and to get that bonus initiative that you wanted from Street Fighter. Dropping the Rouge levels loses the Uncanny Dodge and Sneak attack, but it buys you a higher BAB which garners a greater number of attacks and a greater chance to hit. It also gets you into your PrCs much more quickly.
Flay Crimsonwind
08-11-06, 08:35 PM I totally forgot about the duelist, thank you for that. I'm kinda up-in-the-air about dropping the rogue, but it might be a very good idea. If I don't then the tempst will come at a much higher level, and might be slighty less useful than if I just went straight fighter. One of the two will go. Thanks for the duelist suggestion.
ElIsRa
08-11-06, 08:40 PM Your welcome, any time. Hope your character turns out great! :dancin:
Endarire
08-11-06, 08:41 PM Perhaps feat rogue or sneak attack fighter.

-EE
Otto the Bugbear
08-11-06, 08:46 PM Lesser Tiefling 32 point buy
Str: 16 (10), Dex 17 (8), Con 14 (6), Int 13 (3), Wis 10 (2), Cha 9 (3) (focus on str, then con, dex)

Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Cobra Strike Monk 2 / Thief-Acrobat 3 / Exotic Weapon Master 1 / Dervish 7 / Shou Disciple 3

Oversize TWF, TWF, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Leap Attack, ITWF (plus more, like the other required feats.)

Grab Uncanny Blow from EWM.
Thief-Acrobat is so terrain no longer slows you down.
Loads of goodies.
Loads of bonus feats.
Good skill set.
Good HD.
Only loses 2 from BAB over entire 20 levels.

This is an old staple on Char.Opt actually.

Fini

Cheers

Otto :)
ElIsRa
08-11-06, 08:48 PM Perhaps feat rogue or sneak attack fighter.

-EEActually, I would suggest the Thug fighter verient if any. The Thug is good for this combo because you already wont be using the two Fighter feats that you lose, and picking up the Bluff skill gives you the Feint as a real posablity. Plus Urban Tracking isn't a bad feat to have.
Flay Crimsonwind
08-11-06, 08:51 PM Oh god, the dervish..... I have yet to use him, but this seems like a good time.

Where would one find the Cobra Strike Monk, Exotic Weapon Master, Dervish dancer (dancer yes?), Shou Disciple? I am familiar with them by their mention, but I do not know where to get them.

And damn thats a big bag of goodies....... only loosing 2 attack bonus....... heheheheheh :evillaugh :devil:
terosthefrozen
08-11-06, 08:57 PM cobra strike monk in unearthed arcana, exotic weapons master and dervish are both in complete warrior. the shou disciple is in unapproachable east.
Flay Crimsonwind
08-11-06, 09:09 PM Heh, three more supps to get :eek:
Calibron
08-12-06, 09:13 AM Uhm...Otto that build seems the be half focused on 2-handing a Bastard Sword and half focused on Dual-Wielding Bastard Swords. Was that intentional?

Anyway...if I were you Flay, if you aren't married to the concept of Fighter/Rogue, is to put in two or more levels of Barbarian and drop Rogue; also probably pick up extra rage if you go minimal on the Barb levels. Two-Weapon Fighting is going to hurt your ability to hit things enough as it is without going into non-full BAB classes, also Rage will help out with your ability to hit and do damage.

I advocate the use of the Thug varient for the Fighter for better skills and the fact that with 19+ Dexterity you'll likely be wearing Light Armor anyway. I also think you should give the Whirling Frenzy varient of Rage a look; it's in Unearthed Arcana as well by the way.
Otto the Bugbear
08-12-06, 10:51 AM Uhm...Otto that build seems the be half focused on 2-handing a Bastard Sword and half focused on Dual-Wielding Bastard Swords. Was that intentional?

Sort of.

Power Attack / Leap Attack is such a powerful combination that you're better off using that as an alpha strike on the first round / surprise round. Then, draw your other bastard sword and go into the dervish dance, since you're now in the middle of the baddies anyway. You don't have to worry about taking a move action to draw it thanks to dervish dance allowing movement with a full attack.

Not only that, but power attack with two b. swords works fairly well. And if that doesn't work, for instance when up against good DR, two handing a sword is the better route to take. The build presented has the ability to switch pretty easily between the two methods, for more versatility.

The levels of monk and shou disciple serve two purposes. First, Shou Disciple is just a great class. Second, you are always armed, when without equipment or when grappled, you'll be doing pretty good damage.

Cheers

Otto :)
a_m0ogle
08-12-06, 11:44 AM Well.. two bastard swords is quite pointless I think :P, its a waste of a feat for proficiency, waste of a feat to make the penalties -2 instead of -4, and there is very little damage difference from a longsword and shortsword, two shortswords, etc..

Shortsword = 1d6, BS = 1d10

1d10 is just a d4 above d6.. thats an average of.. 2 more damage

So 4 more damage altogether, with the waste of either 1 or 2 feats (2 if you don't want the additional -2). With those 1 or 2 feats you could easily outweigh the 4 more damage, VERY easily.
Otto the Bugbear
08-12-06, 01:19 PM Except that short swords don't gain any benefit from power attack. And by extension, leap attack.
a_m0ogle
08-12-06, 02:51 PM Except that short swords don't gain any benefit from power attack. And by extension, leap attack.
But longswords do. Thats a difference of 2 damage (1 damage each), for one feat. I'm thinking one feat in better than an average 2 more damage.
Otto the Bugbear
08-12-06, 04:37 PM Two things

1. Uncanny Blow

2. People like using bastard swords. Sometimes it's all about the numbers. Sometimes it's not. This is one of those cases where he's asking very specifically for a dual bastard sword wielding character. Giving him a dual long sword wielding character doesn't fit with the request.

Cheers

Otto :)
StevenO
08-12-06, 11:12 PM Definitely Tempest although an Exotic Weapon Master also may come into play. The Dervish may also be possible if light weapons aren't a requirement because the Bastard Sword does meet the slashing requirement.
Flay Crimsonwind
08-13-06, 03:58 AM Thank you all for the suggestions, and by all means keep 'em comming. This is my namesake character, a guy who has always been a TWFer, a gentleman thief, and an honorable assassin. I decided on bastard swords just due to the visual of a guy wielding two bastard swords, who's neither large nor obsenely strong. Furthermore, this guy wears studded leather, since he likes his skills a lot, but doesn't wanna sac armor efficiency.

I might go Ranger/Barb, since I do need the rage, and the favored enemy for human mixed with the free TWF tree sounds like a good idea. Plus I'll get a wicked double good save from ranger, and a wee companion after 4 levels of ranger, though I must find this thug class. Tempest is a must for the bastard sword ideal, especially for the added defense making up for the reduced AC of rage. I'm not very familiar with the dancer, but then again, I don't know the thug variant, so this'll require much more research. I've got about three weeks to make this character, and with his history written out down to the very details of a signet ring he has, so I've got all the time needed. Thank you all.
Calibron
08-13-06, 08:12 AM Thug, Cobra Strike style Monk, and Whirling Frenzy are all in Unearthed Arcana and can be looked up for free here (http://d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm).
Otto the Bugbear
08-13-06, 11:20 AM Dervish really is your better bet.

They get a bonus to hit for every odd level, so by level 3 they're negating the penalty for TWF. A tempest does that at level 4, IIRC.

Dervish also gets the same bonus to damage. A tempest gets no damage bonus.

Dervish gets a +1 AC for every 4 levels, so +3 at level 9-10. Tempest gets it fasters, +3 by level 5.

Dervish gets a PILE of other good stuff to work with; fast movement, dervish dance (move while making a full attack), spring attack bonus feat, cleave while in a dervish dance, +2 initiative, +4 AC when fighting defensively, and the pinacle ability to double your attacks while in a dervish dance. The tempest is... less fortunate.

Depending upon what level you're going to play up to, and what level you begin taking Dervish, you might throw a few levels of tempest into the mix, though I wouldn't.

There really isn't much comparison.
Flay Crimsonwind
08-13-06, 06:17 PM Wow, so far so good.

With the info I got on the thug and dancer, I modded a bit. The dancer will be deadly with 2 bastards (swords that is, not other PC's), and the whirling frenzy giving a bonus AC is nice. So yeah, I'm convinced to go thug/barb, using dervish as a PrC. I'd have to get the requirement feats to make this character work anyway, so It'd be a nice addition for more movement and the dance. With the barbs movement and the derv's, this character should be pretty fast as is. Thief acrobat would give him some more defense, but would cut the attack bonus, even if it kinda fits with his flavor, so that's on the outbox. Tempest......... maybe. I'd be taking it at higher levels, and there's gotta be something better to take later on.

So yeah, thug/barb/derv. Hmmm.......
Flay Crimsonwind
08-14-06, 03:55 AM Okay, so I played around with SRD sites and supplemental books, and wound up using a pretty direct route. I looked at the thug, and decided instead to lose one point of BAB and instead go with the rogue fighter variant. He's a fighter, yes, but he's also the skill-bomb, surprisingly enough. A snake-tongued devil, so I went with more skills and one less attack. I also went with the Ranger, getting TWF and a favored enemy (Human, of course :D ). Plus, the ranger and rogue give me ever skill save for a few knowledge and spellcraft, which I couldn't pass up.

So right now, I need the CW to look at the dervish, but it's like this:
Ranger 2/Barb 3/Rogue(Fighter Variant) 3/Dervish Dancer X/ ?

Dunno if I'll go full Derv yet. Still, I've got full skills, great saves, getting high fort and ref off the ranger's 2 good and the barbs and rogues respective focus, and good wisdom, thank you derv. Plus, if only as the support, I'll be an annoying killer. I get Derv by level 9, and have Bastard Sword Proficiency, Extra Rage, TWF, OTWF, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, and weapon focus on my swords to get into derv and to make up for the one point I lost from the rogue. Still need:
Improved Trip
ITWF
Power attack
Cleave tree?
Two-Weapon Rend (cause it's close to Flaying something, thus his name. I dunn think the other flay abilities are really worth it....)
Otto the Bugbear
08-14-06, 08:00 AM The only thing I'd suggest you contemplate is, what is rogue 3 giving you? Skill points to be sure, but that's about it. Similarly, barb 3 isn't giving a whole lot.

One of the standard lead in recommendations for many melee plans is 2/2/2. That is, 2 levels of three different classes. In your case, that would be ranger, barbarian, and feat rogue. This gets you the required skill ranks and BAB for dervish. Start rogue if you want more skill points, barb if you want more hit points. Sounds like your character will end up making more sense starting as rogue, given the character background bits you've provided.

Rogue 2 gives you dodge, mobility, ewp: bastard sword, and wf bastard sword.
Barbarian 2 brings you up to Combat Expertise
Ranger 2 gives you OTWF, TWF, Track

You need weapon focus bastard sword to qualify for Dervish, which you don't yet have listed. That means that Extra Rage, Rend, or Power Attack is going to be delayed a little bit. And really, that's ok. Taking this route, and avoiding the other classes that give bonus feats, just delays the end result a little bit.

Cheers

Otto :)
Flay Crimsonwind
08-14-06, 04:18 PM cept the feat rogue sacks sneak attack for feats. At level three is his second sneak attack. I tried putting up a table with the feats listed, but for somereason it was all fugged up, so I dropped it. I'll try it like this: (since the tables hate me)
Level 1 Barb Bastard sword proficiency(1st), dodge
Level 2 Ranger Track(meh, track... might change him to urban ranger for the other tracking)
Level 3 Ranger TWF(style), OTWF(3rd level feat)
Level 4 Barb no feats, uncanny dodge
Level 5 Rogue Combat Expertise(bonus) [note:only point where BAB doesn't rise]
Level 6 Rogue WF(bastard sword)(6th level feat)
Level 7 Rogue Mobility(bonus)
Level 8 Barb no feats, trapfinding gets raised... might replace with ranger to get endurance for free
Level 9 Dervish Extra rage

technically, when gaining a level, it doesn't say whether to get feats or classes first, and as long as the feat doesn't require you to be in that class, my dm lets you pick feats first, allowing for you to get into PrC's a bit easier. I could get mobility at level nine, and get extra rage instead of the first level dodge, meaning more rages earlier. For normalities sake, I list it like this.
Otto the Bugbear
08-15-06, 07:57 AM meh... was going from memory and I thought feat rogue basically got the same feat progression as the fighter.

Anyway, dropping that 3rd level of barb is still recommended. It doesn't help you all that much, with the first level of dervish being a d10 instead of d12, and the same skill points. In fact, dervish helps more since it raises your pitiful will save. Oh, and you need mobility for dervish. That's why Cobra Strike Monk was so valuable for the one I posted.

It looks like it's rounding into form nicely. Have fun.

Cheers

Otto :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Flay Crimsonwind 08-11-06, 07:57 PM	A Guy that uses 2 bastard swords. I wanna try this out, just to prove to my DM that they're not hopeless. Ohter than tempest, I've considered streetfighter, since extra innitiative and the ability to lessen lethal damage is awesome. He's a fighter Rogue starting, for extra feats and uncanny dodge. But what are the best classes to max out his power? To review: He's a human with a high dex and strength, mid con and intel, and low cha and wis. Fighter/Rogue so far, probably only 7 or 8 levels of, just for uncanny dodge. Wields 2 bastard swords. Now what can I do for him? --edit-- I meant to put this in the character development thread, my bad.....
ElIsRa 08-11-06, 08:18 PM	I think you are spreading your character out too thin. Something more like Fighter/Tempest/Duelist should work better. Taking levels of Duelist to benefit from your lack of armor from the Tempest, and to get that bonus initiative that you wanted from Street Fighter. Dropping the Rouge levels loses the Uncanny Dodge and Sneak attack, but it buys you a higher BAB which garners a greater number of attacks and a greater chance to hit. It also gets you into your PrCs much more quickly.
Flay Crimsonwind 08-11-06, 08:35 PM	I totally forgot about the duelist, thank you for that. I'm kinda up-in-the-air about dropping the rogue, but it might be a very good idea. If I don't then the tempst will come at a much higher level, and might be slighty less useful than if I just went straight fighter. One of the two will go. Thanks for the duelist suggestion.
ElIsRa 08-11-06, 08:40 PM	Your welcome, any time. Hope your character turns out great! :dancin:
Endarire 08-11-06, 08:41 PM	Perhaps feat rogue or sneak attack fighter. -EE
Otto the Bugbear 08-11-06, 08:46 PM	Lesser Tiefling 32 point buy Str: 16 (10), Dex 17 (8), Con 14 (6), Int 13 (3), Wis 10 (2), Cha 9 (3) (focus on str, then con, dex) Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 / Cobra Strike Monk 2 / Thief-Acrobat 3 / Exotic Weapon Master 1 / Dervish 7 / Shou Disciple 3 Oversize TWF, TWF, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Leap Attack, ITWF (plus more, like the other required feats.) Grab Uncanny Blow from EWM. Thief-Acrobat is so terrain no longer slows you down. Loads of goodies. Loads of bonus feats. Good skill set. Good HD. Only loses 2 from BAB over entire 20 levels. This is an old staple on Char.Opt actually. Fini Cheers Otto :)
ElIsRa 08-11-06, 08:48 PM	Perhaps feat rogue or sneak attack fighter. -EEActually, I would suggest the Thug fighter verient if any. The Thug is good for this combo because you already wont be using the two Fighter feats that you lose, and picking up the Bluff skill gives you the Feint as a real posablity. Plus Urban Tracking isn't a bad feat to have.
Flay Crimsonwind 08-11-06, 08:51 PM	Oh god, the dervish..... I have yet to use him, but this seems like a good time. Where would one find the Cobra Strike Monk, Exotic Weapon Master, Dervish dancer (dancer yes?), Shou Disciple? I am familiar with them by their mention, but I do not know where to get them. And damn thats a big bag of goodies....... only loosing 2 attack bonus....... heheheheheh :evillaugh :devil:
terosthefrozen 08-11-06, 08:57 PM	cobra strike monk in unearthed arcana, exotic weapons master and dervish are both in complete warrior. the shou disciple is in unapproachable east.
Flay Crimsonwind 08-11-06, 09:09 PM	Heh, three more supps to get :eek:
Calibron 08-12-06, 09:13 AM	Uhm...Otto that build seems the be half focused on 2-handing a Bastard Sword and half focused on Dual-Wielding Bastard Swords. Was that intentional? Anyway...if I were you Flay, if you aren't married to the concept of Fighter/Rogue, is to put in two or more levels of Barbarian and drop Rogue; also probably pick up extra rage if you go minimal on the Barb levels. Two-Weapon Fighting is going to hurt your ability to hit things enough as it is without going into non-full BAB classes, also Rage will help out with your ability to hit and do damage. I advocate the use of the Thug varient for the Fighter for better skills and the fact that with 19+ Dexterity you'll likely be wearing Light Armor anyway. I also think you should give the Whirling Frenzy varient of Rage a look; it's in Unearthed Arcana as well by the way.
Otto the Bugbear 08-12-06, 10:51 AM	Uhm...Otto that build seems the be half focused on 2-handing a Bastard Sword and half focused on Dual-Wielding Bastard Swords. Was that intentional? Sort of. Power Attack / Leap Attack is such a powerful combination that you're better off using that as an alpha strike on the first round / surprise round. Then, draw your other bastard sword and go into the dervish dance, since you're now in the middle of the baddies anyway. You don't have to worry about taking a move action to draw it thanks to dervish dance allowing movement with a full attack. Not only that, but power attack with two b. swords works fairly well. And if that doesn't work, for instance when up against good DR, two handing a sword is the better route to take. The build presented has the ability to switch pretty easily between the two methods, for more versatility. The levels of monk and shou disciple serve two purposes. First, Shou Disciple is just a great class. Second, you are always armed, when without equipment or when grappled, you'll be doing pretty good damage. Cheers Otto :)
a_m0ogle 08-12-06, 11:44 AM	Well.. two bastard swords is quite pointless I think :P, its a waste of a feat for proficiency, waste of a feat to make the penalties -2 instead of -4, and there is very little damage difference from a longsword and shortsword, two shortswords, etc.. Shortsword = 1d6, BS = 1d10 1d10 is just a d4 above d6.. thats an average of.. 2 more damage So 4 more damage altogether, with the waste of either 1 or 2 feats (2 if you don't want the additional -2). With those 1 or 2 feats you could easily outweigh the 4 more damage, VERY easily.
Otto the Bugbear 08-12-06, 01:19 PM	Except that short swords don't gain any benefit from power attack. And by extension, leap attack.
a_m0ogle 08-12-06, 02:51 PM	Except that short swords don't gain any benefit from power attack. And by extension, leap attack. But longswords do. Thats a difference of 2 damage (1 damage each), for one feat. I'm thinking one feat in better than an average 2 more damage.
Otto the Bugbear 08-12-06, 04:37 PM	Two things 1. Uncanny Blow 2. People like using bastard swords. Sometimes it's all about the numbers. Sometimes it's not. This is one of those cases where he's asking very specifically for a dual bastard sword wielding character. Giving him a dual long sword wielding character doesn't fit with the request. Cheers Otto :)
StevenO 08-12-06, 11:12 PM	Definitely Tempest although an Exotic Weapon Master also may come into play. The Dervish may also be possible if light weapons aren't a requirement because the Bastard Sword does meet the slashing requirement.
Flay Crimsonwind 08-13-06, 03:58 AM	Thank you all for the suggestions, and by all means keep 'em comming. This is my namesake character, a guy who has always been a TWFer, a gentleman thief, and an honorable assassin. I decided on bastard swords just due to the visual of a guy wielding two bastard swords, who's neither large nor obsenely strong. Furthermore, this guy wears studded leather, since he likes his skills a lot, but doesn't wanna sac armor efficiency. I might go Ranger/Barb, since I do need the rage, and the favored enemy for human mixed with the free TWF tree sounds like a good idea. Plus I'll get a wicked double good save from ranger, and a wee companion after 4 levels of ranger, though I must find this thug class. Tempest is a must for the bastard sword ideal, especially for the added defense making up for the reduced AC of rage. I'm not very familiar with the dancer, but then again, I don't know the thug variant, so this'll require much more research. I've got about three weeks to make this character, and with his history written out down to the very details of a signet ring he has, so I've got all the time needed. Thank you all.
Calibron 08-13-06, 08:12 AM	Thug, Cobra Strike style Monk, and Whirling Frenzy are all in Unearthed Arcana and can be looked up for free here (http://d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm).
Otto the Bugbear 08-13-06, 11:20 AM	Dervish really is your better bet. They get a bonus to hit for every odd level, so by level 3 they're negating the penalty for TWF. A tempest does that at level 4, IIRC. Dervish also gets the same bonus to damage. A tempest gets no damage bonus. Dervish gets a +1 AC for every 4 levels, so +3 at level 9-10. Tempest gets it fasters, +3 by level 5. Dervish gets a PILE of other good stuff to work with; fast movement, dervish dance (move while making a full attack), spring attack bonus feat, cleave while in a dervish dance, +2 initiative, +4 AC when fighting defensively, and the pinacle ability to double your attacks while in a dervish dance. The tempest is... less fortunate. Depending upon what level you're going to play up to, and what level you begin taking Dervish, you might throw a few levels of tempest into the mix, though I wouldn't. There really isn't much comparison.
Flay Crimsonwind 08-13-06, 06:17 PM	Wow, so far so good. With the info I got on the thug and dancer, I modded a bit. The dancer will be deadly with 2 bastards (swords that is, not other PC's), and the whirling frenzy giving a bonus AC is nice. So yeah, I'm convinced to go thug/barb, using dervish as a PrC. I'd have to get the requirement feats to make this character work anyway, so It'd be a nice addition for more movement and the dance. With the barbs movement and the derv's, this character should be pretty fast as is. Thief acrobat would give him some more defense, but would cut the attack bonus, even if it kinda fits with his flavor, so that's on the outbox. Tempest......... maybe. I'd be taking it at higher levels, and there's gotta be something better to take later on. So yeah, thug/barb/derv. Hmmm.......
Flay Crimsonwind 08-14-06, 03:55 AM	Okay, so I played around with SRD sites and supplemental books, and wound up using a pretty direct route. I looked at the thug, and decided instead to lose one point of BAB and instead go with the rogue fighter variant. He's a fighter, yes, but he's also the skill-bomb, surprisingly enough. A snake-tongued devil, so I went with more skills and one less attack. I also went with the Ranger, getting TWF and a favored enemy (Human, of course :D ). Plus, the ranger and rogue give me ever skill save for a few knowledge and spellcraft, which I couldn't pass up. So right now, I need the CW to look at the dervish, but it's like this: Ranger 2/Barb 3/Rogue(Fighter Variant) 3/Dervish Dancer X/ ? Dunno if I'll go full Derv yet. Still, I've got full skills, great saves, getting high fort and ref off the ranger's 2 good and the barbs and rogues respective focus, and good wisdom, thank you derv. Plus, if only as the support, I'll be an annoying killer. I get Derv by level 9, and have Bastard Sword Proficiency, Extra Rage, TWF, OTWF, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, and weapon focus on my swords to get into derv and to make up for the one point I lost from the rogue. Still need: Improved Trip ITWF Power attack Cleave tree? Two-Weapon Rend (cause it's close to Flaying something, thus his name. I dunn think the other flay abilities are really worth it....)
Otto the Bugbear 08-14-06, 08:00 AM	The only thing I'd suggest you contemplate is, what is rogue 3 giving you? Skill points to be sure, but that's about it. Similarly, barb 3 isn't giving a whole lot. One of the standard lead in recommendations for many melee plans is 2/2/2. That is, 2 levels of three different classes. In your case, that would be ranger, barbarian, and feat rogue. This gets you the required skill ranks and BAB for dervish. Start rogue if you want more skill points, barb if you want more hit points. Sounds like your character will end up making more sense starting as rogue, given the character background bits you've provided. Rogue 2 gives you dodge, mobility, ewp: bastard sword, and wf bastard sword. Barbarian 2 brings you up to Combat Expertise Ranger 2 gives you OTWF, TWF, Track You need weapon focus bastard sword to qualify for Dervish, which you don't yet have listed. That means that Extra Rage, Rend, or Power Attack is going to be delayed a little bit. And really, that's ok. Taking this route, and avoiding the other classes that give bonus feats, just delays the end result a little bit. Cheers Otto :)
Flay Crimsonwind 08-14-06, 04:18 PM	cept the feat rogue sacks sneak attack for feats. At level three is his second sneak attack. I tried putting up a table with the feats listed, but for somereason it was all fugged up, so I dropped it. I'll try it like this: (since the tables hate me) Level 1 Barb Bastard sword proficiency(1st), dodge Level 2 Ranger Track(meh, track... might change him to urban ranger for the other tracking) Level 3 Ranger TWF(style), OTWF(3rd level feat) Level 4 Barb no feats, uncanny dodge Level 5 Rogue Combat Expertise(bonus) [note:only point where BAB doesn't rise] Level 6 Rogue WF(bastard sword)(6th level feat) Level 7 Rogue Mobility(bonus) Level 8 Barb no feats, trapfinding gets raised... might replace with ranger to get endurance for free Level 9 Dervish Extra rage technically, when gaining a level, it doesn't say whether to get feats or classes first, and as long as the feat doesn't require you to be in that class, my dm lets you pick feats first, allowing for you to get into PrC's a bit easier. I could get mobility at level nine, and get extra rage instead of the first level dodge, meaning more rages earlier. For normalities sake, I list it like this.
Otto the Bugbear 08-15-06, 07:57 AM	meh... was going from memory and I thought feat rogue basically got the same feat progression as the fighter. Anyway, dropping that 3rd level of barb is still recommended. It doesn't help you all that much, with the first level of dervish being a d10 instead of d12, and the same skill points. In fact, dervish helps more since it raises your pitiful will save. Oh, and you need mobility for dervish. That's why Cobra Strike Monk was so valuable for the one I posted. It looks like it's rounding into form nicely. Have fun. Cheers Otto :)