best level 40 multiclassed spellcaster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

best level 40 multiclassed spellcaster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EshuunDara
10-02-04, 05:40 PM I'm playing around with the epic rules and trying to build a powerful divine/arcane spellcaster. My initial thought was to go wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 10 and then tack on a series of other prestige classes, but I realized that there have to be people on the board with a lot more experience with the epic level book than I do who might have some suggestions. Basically, I'm building a character for a new epic campaign, but I'd like to plan my character out before hand...
Ruxpin
10-02-04, 06:02 PM Wiz 5, Incantrix 4, Ur Preist 2, MT 8, Incantrix 6, War Wizard 5, and 10 more of your favorite wizard PrC, or Geomancer.. that one is allways fun. Or Dwarven Runesmith. Heck throw in 11 levels of Monk for some flurry action..

But if you were to go 29 levels wiz (including prc) Ur preist 2, and MT 8, that would give you a caster level of 37 for arcane, and either 28 for Divine, or 24... Depending how you interpret that part in Ur priest CL's, its kinda of sketchy...

Im kinda partial to wiz 5, Incantrix 10, Ur priest 2, MT8, monk 11, warshaper 4. That way you could shape change into a Titan and buff yourself up to the max and go on a crazy flurry attack... with a 61str, before they errata'd rightious might anyway... and your doing 8d8 per punch, have a few two weapon fighting feats and you can attack offhand too... lots of fun..
Wildonion
10-02-04, 07:17 PM 10 Druid/10 Cleric/10 Wizard/10 Bard :D
MetalGemini
10-02-04, 10:37 PM Wizard 10/Cleric 10/Mystic Theurge 10/X 10

20 levels of Wizard spells, 20 levels of Cleric spells, and anything else for 10 levels - Non-spellcasting Prc, Fighter/Rogue/etc base class, whatever your heart desires ;)
EshuunDara
10-03-04, 01:14 AM Thanks for the replies guys -- my main concern is that I might be gimping myself by taking mystic theurge since it's an epic campaign. While MT is a powerful class, I'm still trying to sort out in my head if a cleric 20/wizard 20 is better than a cleric 10/wizard 10/MT 10/something 10. The cleric/wizard will have metamagic feats, item creation feats, and much better turning skills (in addition to having a better BAB and more hitpoints). Both types will cast as level 20 casters so that part is even, so I suppose it comes down to finding a prestige class that makes up for that in some way.

Alternatively, I'm tempted to do something like:
cleric 3, psion 6, wizard 3, mystic theurge 10, cerebremancer 7, psychic theurge 7.

That lets me cast like a level 20 cleric (3 from cleric, 10 from mystic theurge, and 7 from psychich theurge); a level 20 wizard (3 from wizard, 10 from mystic theurge, and 7 from cerebremancer); and a level 20 psion (6 from psion, 7 from cerebremancer, and 7 from psychic theurge)... and I'm a level 36 character.
EshuunDara
10-03-04, 01:46 AM Thinking about it some more:

cleric 3, wizard 3, geomancer 10, mystic theurge 5, psion 5, cerebremancer 7, psychic theurge 7.

This makes me a level 20 caster for cleric and arcane spells, and I have the psionic ability of a level 19 psion. Additionally, he has all the abilities of a 10th level geomancer so this character can cast his arcane spells in armor, convert arcane spells to cure spells on the fly, etc.

I also found a nifty class in the complete divine book called the Favored Soul... sorta like a Sorcerer for divine spellcasting -- the cool part about it is that it uses Charisma for the spellcasting attribute, so if you went with a divine soul/sorcerer for a build similar to this, you could put all your eggs in one basket with respect to what attribute is the most important...
Methos of Aundair
10-03-04, 02:19 AM Since your using the epic rules why not go clr5/wiz5/mystic theurge 30? This allows you to cast spells as a 25th level cleric and 25th level wizard?

Being a 30th level MT would grant you 5 bonus epic feats from the epic MT class. Obviously you would take the Practiced Spellcaster feat (at the lower levels) in both classes.

My own opinion would be to stick with either wizard or cleric so that you could be a 40th level caster.
The Souljourner
10-03-04, 02:29 AM Or you could go 6/4/30 and with practiced spellcaster, your higher class will be caster level 40, and the other one will be 38. That's pretty sweet. Given that caster level is all that matters above level 20 anyway, you're just better than a straight wizard (except straight wizards probably get more epic feats).

-The Souljourner
EshuunDara
10-03-04, 02:35 AM First -- you don't really gain by taking levels of Epic Mystic Theurge. You'd get some extra feats (one at MT16, one at 22, and one at 28), but after MT 10 you don't get the +1/+1 to your spellcasting classes, but your spell progression changes:

"When an odd-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. When an even-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1."

so at clr5/wiz5/mt10, you cast as per a level 15 cleric/level 15 wizard.
at clr5/wiz/mt20, you cast like a level 20 cleric/level 20 wizard.

At that point, the *ONLY* bonuses you get from higher levels of MT are those bonus feats, and you only get one bonus feat every 6 levels starting a level 10 (so 16, 22, etc). Seems like a waste when you could spend those levels on something else that gives you more benefits. Additionally, since your MT spells caster bonuses are split after MT10, you would probably be better off taking 5 levels of a wizard PrC and 5 levels of a cleric PrC instead -- you'd have the same net caster level and spells per day, but you'd also have whatever bonuses your PrC's granted you. (in the example I used, I put 10 of those levels into geomancer, for the Spell Versatility ability. Gaining the ability to fly in there is also a nice touch though).
Methos of Aundair
10-03-04, 12:58 PM Or you could go 6/4/30 and with practiced spellcaster, your higher class will be caster level 40, and the other one will be 38. That's pretty sweet. Given that caster level is all that matters above level 20 anyway, you're just better than a straight wizard (except straight wizards probably get more epic feats).

-The Souljourner

EshuunDara beat me to it. Yeah, epic MT isn't as good as non-epic MT but it still isn't too bad. Notice that my option only had each as a 25th level caster and that was with 30 levels of MT. This was my reason for sticking to a straight classed spellcaster rather than going the combined arcane/divine route.
Ranthanas
10-03-04, 01:08 PM The only real point of the second spellcasting class in Epic (at level 40 anyway...) is to get the bonus epic magic seeds and epic spells.

Also when it comes to epic spells, the Sorceror with his spontaneous spells is scary.

Sorceror 4/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Dweomerkeeper 10 (4 levels towards the cleric)/Eldritch Master 10 (who needs bonus epic feats? ;) )/?3 will get you the scariest epic magic under the sun- spontaneous and with all seeds- and plenty of normal magic to metamagic (and you can get autoquicken spell despite being a sorc...)

Alternatively, if it's just clerical spells you want and you are sure you won't run out of spells/day: Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5/Eldritch Master 10/Incantatrix 11-20
(With Eldritch Master the wizard gets to add two entire spell lists to his complement of spells)
MetalGemini
10-03-04, 02:49 PM A little more versatility: Druid 20/Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5.

Sorcerers have versatility b'c of spontaneous casting. Druids have a great spell list and wild shape for many purposes. Even better = add eschew materials + vow of poverty. Druids have fewer spells that require costly materials/focus items than clerics and sorcerers can pick the cheap spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EshuunDara 10-02-04, 05:40 PM	I'm playing around with the epic rules and trying to build a powerful divine/arcane spellcaster. My initial thought was to go wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 10 and then tack on a series of other prestige classes, but I realized that there have to be people on the board with a lot more experience with the epic level book than I do who might have some suggestions. Basically, I'm building a character for a new epic campaign, but I'd like to plan my character out before hand...
Ruxpin 10-02-04, 06:02 PM	Wiz 5, Incantrix 4, Ur Preist 2, MT 8, Incantrix 6, War Wizard 5, and 10 more of your favorite wizard PrC, or Geomancer.. that one is allways fun. Or Dwarven Runesmith. Heck throw in 11 levels of Monk for some flurry action.. But if you were to go 29 levels wiz (including prc) Ur preist 2, and MT 8, that would give you a caster level of 37 for arcane, and either 28 for Divine, or 24... Depending how you interpret that part in Ur priest CL's, its kinda of sketchy... Im kinda partial to wiz 5, Incantrix 10, Ur priest 2, MT8, monk 11, warshaper 4. That way you could shape change into a Titan and buff yourself up to the max and go on a crazy flurry attack... with a 61str, before they errata'd rightious might anyway... and your doing 8d8 per punch, have a few two weapon fighting feats and you can attack offhand too... lots of fun..
Wildonion 10-02-04, 07:17 PM	10 Druid/10 Cleric/10 Wizard/10 Bard :D
MetalGemini 10-02-04, 10:37 PM	Wizard 10/Cleric 10/Mystic Theurge 10/X 10 20 levels of Wizard spells, 20 levels of Cleric spells, and anything else for 10 levels - Non-spellcasting Prc, Fighter/Rogue/etc base class, whatever your heart desires ;)
EshuunDara 10-03-04, 01:14 AM	Thanks for the replies guys -- my main concern is that I might be gimping myself by taking mystic theurge since it's an epic campaign. While MT is a powerful class, I'm still trying to sort out in my head if a cleric 20/wizard 20 is better than a cleric 10/wizard 10/MT 10/something 10. The cleric/wizard will have metamagic feats, item creation feats, and much better turning skills (in addition to having a better BAB and more hitpoints). Both types will cast as level 20 casters so that part is even, so I suppose it comes down to finding a prestige class that makes up for that in some way. Alternatively, I'm tempted to do something like: cleric 3, psion 6, wizard 3, mystic theurge 10, cerebremancer 7, psychic theurge 7. That lets me cast like a level 20 cleric (3 from cleric, 10 from mystic theurge, and 7 from psychich theurge); a level 20 wizard (3 from wizard, 10 from mystic theurge, and 7 from cerebremancer); and a level 20 psion (6 from psion, 7 from cerebremancer, and 7 from psychic theurge)... and I'm a level 36 character.
EshuunDara 10-03-04, 01:46 AM	Thinking about it some more: cleric 3, wizard 3, geomancer 10, mystic theurge 5, psion 5, cerebremancer 7, psychic theurge 7. This makes me a level 20 caster for cleric and arcane spells, and I have the psionic ability of a level 19 psion. Additionally, he has all the abilities of a 10th level geomancer so this character can cast his arcane spells in armor, convert arcane spells to cure spells on the fly, etc. I also found a nifty class in the complete divine book called the Favored Soul... sorta like a Sorcerer for divine spellcasting -- the cool part about it is that it uses Charisma for the spellcasting attribute, so if you went with a divine soul/sorcerer for a build similar to this, you could put all your eggs in one basket with respect to what attribute is the most important...
Methos of Aundair 10-03-04, 02:19 AM	Since your using the epic rules why not go clr5/wiz5/mystic theurge 30? This allows you to cast spells as a 25th level cleric and 25th level wizard? Being a 30th level MT would grant you 5 bonus epic feats from the epic MT class. Obviously you would take the Practiced Spellcaster feat (at the lower levels) in both classes. My own opinion would be to stick with either wizard or cleric so that you could be a 40th level caster.
The Souljourner 10-03-04, 02:29 AM	Or you could go 6/4/30 and with practiced spellcaster, your higher class will be caster level 40, and the other one will be 38. That's pretty sweet. Given that caster level is all that matters above level 20 anyway, you're just better than a straight wizard (except straight wizards probably get more epic feats). -The Souljourner
EshuunDara 10-03-04, 02:35 AM	First -- you don't really gain by taking levels of Epic Mystic Theurge. You'd get some extra feats (one at MT16, one at 22, and one at 28), but after MT 10 you don't get the +1/+1 to your spellcasting classes, but your spell progression changes: "When an odd-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. When an even-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1." so at clr5/wiz5/mt10, you cast as per a level 15 cleric/level 15 wizard. at clr5/wiz/mt20, you cast like a level 20 cleric/level 20 wizard. At that point, the ONLY bonuses you get from higher levels of MT are those bonus feats, and you only get one bonus feat every 6 levels starting a level 10 (so 16, 22, etc). Seems like a waste when you could spend those levels on something else that gives you more benefits. Additionally, since your MT spells caster bonuses are split after MT10, you would probably be better off taking 5 levels of a wizard PrC and 5 levels of a cleric PrC instead -- you'd have the same net caster level and spells per day, but you'd also have whatever bonuses your PrC's granted you. (in the example I used, I put 10 of those levels into geomancer, for the Spell Versatility ability. Gaining the ability to fly in there is also a nice touch though).
Methos of Aundair 10-03-04, 12:58 PM	Or you could go 6/4/30 and with practiced spellcaster, your higher class will be caster level 40, and the other one will be 38. That's pretty sweet. Given that caster level is all that matters above level 20 anyway, you're just better than a straight wizard (except straight wizards probably get more epic feats). -The Souljourner EshuunDara beat me to it. Yeah, epic MT isn't as good as non-epic MT but it still isn't too bad. Notice that my option only had each as a 25th level caster and that was with 30 levels of MT. This was my reason for sticking to a straight classed spellcaster rather than going the combined arcane/divine route.
Ranthanas 10-03-04, 01:08 PM	The only real point of the second spellcasting class in Epic (at level 40 anyway...) is to get the bonus epic magic seeds and epic spells. Also when it comes to epic spells, the Sorceror with his spontaneous spells is scary. Sorceror 4/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Dweomerkeeper 10 (4 levels towards the cleric)/Eldritch Master 10 (who needs bonus epic feats? ;) )/?3 will get you the scariest epic magic under the sun- spontaneous and with all seeds- and plenty of normal magic to metamagic (and you can get autoquicken spell despite being a sorc...) Alternatively, if it's just clerical spells you want and you are sure you won't run out of spells/day: Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 5/Eldritch Master 10/Incantatrix 11-20 (With Eldritch Master the wizard gets to add two entire spell lists to his complement of spells)
MetalGemini 10-03-04, 02:49 PM	A little more versatility: Druid 20/Sorcerer 15/Archmage 5. Sorcerers have versatility b'c of spontaneous casting. Druids have a great spell list and wild shape for many purposes. Even better = add eschew materials + vow of poverty. Druids have fewer spells that require costly materials/focus items than clerics and sorcerers can pick the cheap spells.