| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| monkofcuthbert468404-16-07, 08:13 PM | I have to make a melee warrior for my adventuring party and I'm wondering which one is the all around most powerful one to play. Any ideas? Reasons why which class is the best would be helpful. PS: I only have access to the PHB, CW, CD, CArc, and CAdv, so any other classes I would need a link to. |
| Tony Vargas04-16-07, 08:19 PM | That's still enough to do quite a bit, though ToB or PHII would be even better. If you don't have any concept beyond melee power, a barbarian (even frenzied berserker) is a straightforwardly powerful option. The rage-enhancing feats are a possibility, and Leap Attack (even the most conservative interpretations of it) further amps your damage potential. If you're even flexible on the 'warrior' part of the concept, aren't starting at 1st, and aren't lactose intollerant, a caster can even be tricked out to perfrom excessively well in melee, at least some of the time. If you can come up with a more specific idea of what you want, you could try the Character Optimization boards for advice. |
| Crimson_Concerto04-16-07, 08:23 PM | I have to make a melee warrior for my adventuring party and I'm wondering which one is the all around most powerful one to play. Any ideas? Reasons why which class is the best would be helpful. PS: I only have access to the PHB, CW, CD, CArc, and CAdv, so any other classes I would need a link to. This is exactly the type of question we are NOT good at answering. You have given us absolutely nothing to work on. If you at least give us some sort of concept you're shooting for, we may be able to do something, but as currently stated, I'm sure people may suggest a Wizard or Druid, and that's certainly not what you want. You need to be more specific. So what is it you want? Do you want to deal lots of damage? Have uber-high AC? Take a lot of damage? Two-weapon fighter? Two-handed wepaon? Sword and board? You're going to need to elaborate... |
| Jaxgaret04-16-07, 08:27 PM | This is exactly the type of question we are NOT good at answering. You have given us absolutely nothing to work on. If you at least give us some sort of concept you're shooting for, we may be able to do something, but as currently stated, I'm sure people may suggest a Wizard or Druid, and that's certainly not what you want. You need to be more specific. So what is it you want? Do you want to deal lots of damage? Have uber-high AC? Take a lot of damage? Two-weapon fighter? Two-handed wepaon? Sword and board? You're going to need to elaborate... QFT. Because I'd say Druid20, but that's almost assuredly not what you are looking for. |
| Aggrenox04-16-07, 08:51 PM | Factotem. It can do it all. |
| Zragon04-16-07, 10:50 PM | i would say if you want class you can fully costimize and beat things then fight is good but if you want to spealize then BarBar is good if you want a little healing and afree mount pally is good if you want to be distraction then monk is good |
| Lina_Inverse04-17-07, 01:15 AM | Druid is the best melee class. |
| runestar04-17-07, 02:19 AM | Frenzied berserker...:P :embarrass :D |
| navar10004-17-07, 02:51 AM | Barbarians are good for raw power. Picks feats that build on that or offer some tactical option. Power Attack is practiclly a no duh feat for the barbarian. Fighters are good for tactics. You can still get the raw damage through Power Attack and Weapon Specialization, maybe not always as high every level as a barbarian, but good enough. With lots of feats, the fighter can offer different tactics. You can go basic with generic melee power and archery expertise. There are some "fancy" feats that let you do stuff besides just damage which can be useful for tactics. Sometimes you can be better off doing a non-damage causing something that improves the party's favor in the battle even though it may extend the battle rather than just dealing damage trying to win through attrition because the bad guys have not been hindered into doing something nasty to the party. Some Feats let you do the fancy stuff and still get the damage. Notice my paragraph for the fighter is a lot bigger than the barbarian. This is not because of me favoring fighter over barbarian but rather a reflection on the differences between the classes. Fighter get lots of feats which allows for many combinations of choices. Barbarians get the same number of feats as practically everyone else, so the combination of choices is less and thus simpler over all. Multi-classing has its possibilities if you don't absolutely must have the 20th level core class abilities. Barbarian/fighter can give a little bit of both the raw power and tactics. Alternatively, some rogue levels, while sacrificing BAB, provide a good skill boost as well as sneak attack. If you know you won't be in medium or heavy armor, evasion is cool, or you might take the heavy armor, forget evasion for awhile, then at higher level get bracers or some magic armor that counts as light and benefit from evasion then. |
| ninjarabbit04-17-07, 03:19 AM | My vote is for any non-druid/non-cleric is the paladin. It has incredible offesive abilities (divine might, smite, spells), good defensive abilities (divine grace, divine shield, spells), good mobility (mount, divine vigor), healing (lay on hands, use of wands), and other nice abilities. |
| Qube04-17-07, 03:44 AM | I'dd also say paladin |
| Devlonir04-17-07, 03:56 AM | Well, a friend of mine has become a true master of playing a dwarven defender with a spiked chain. Who cares that you can hardly move while in defensive stance when you can trip/disarm everything in a nice radius, which gets bigger once someone buffed you with enlargement. And in those situations where he has to be the meatshield, he switches to his dwarven waraxe / tower shield combination and is hard to hit and has lots of HP. important feats for this build: improved trip/improved disarm, combat expertise, exotic wpn prof spiked chain, combat reflexes, dodge, etc. Basically, anything that either: improves your combat options (including number of attacks) or improves your survivability (hp's/saves/ac) What you also want is a dex of around 16 (for 2 extra AoO's at low level and max AC in a mithril full plate at mid to high level) int of at least 13 (for combat expertise and related feats) a very high con (as high as possible) and a good str (second best score from the start if possible, but you need that 16 dex more) But that's just me paying tribute to the best fighter build when it comes to survivabilty and combat control i have seen in action in de 12 years i now play D&D. |
| Daydreamer04-17-07, 04:02 AM | paladin or barbarian...but tell us something about your group and world man. |
| war_m0nger04-17-07, 09:55 AM | What about a warblade? Just saw them last night... they look tough. |
| Mordar04-17-07, 10:27 AM | I would go for paladin until lvl 5 and get smiting charge, then you can proceed to other divine-like prc's that gives you more options, like fist of raziel or bone knight for example |
| monkofcuthbert468404-17-07, 11:04 AM | paladin or barbarian...but tell us something about your group and world man. Well, my group has a favored soul of Bahumat, a non-specialist elven wizard, a halfling spellthief, and a non-combat cleric of Fharlaghn (non-combat meaning he doesn't fight). My world, though, let's see... well, there are enormus amounts of goblins, and half of them are enslaved by this weird deity my DM made up. Everyone seems to be racist against small people, and non-humans are generally distrusted (except dwarves, for some reason). There are no towns very close to eac other, and there's probably twelve or thirteen forests in the hundred square miles we have a map of. Well, I hope this helps! |
| DwarfPcfan04-17-07, 11:06 AM | I'd go paladin 5/psychic warrior3/warmind10/fist of raziel2 take the knight training feat, praticed manifester, power attack, leap attack feats and charging smite alternative ability and learn the lion's charge psionic power. Strenght 26, dex 13, con 16, int13, wis 15,cha24 +1 collision, psychokinetic burst, shocking, frost, roaring, heavy lance+ charging smite evil+greater psionic weapon+ greater weapon of energy power+power attack+leap attack Damage:1d8+ 1 enhancement bonus to damage+5 collision enhancement+1d6 psychokinetic energy (2d10 on critical hit)+1d6 electricity+1d6 cold+1d6 acid+1d6 sonic+60 damage smite evil+4d6 psionic damage from greater psionic weapon+4d6 fire damage weapon of energy+ 84 damage from power attack and leap attack to maximum and strenght= minimum 171 damage one hit!! On critical hit: 440 damage on critical hit!!! Remember, you get a full attack at the end of a charge that means 4 attacks at then end of your charge meaning if all your attacks hit you get 1760 damage per round !!! |
| monkofcuthbert468404-17-07, 11:18 AM | How would the duskblade be? I mean, since the favored soul has an 18 Str (sorry, forgot to mention that before), I could probably afford to be a less than perfect melee fighter, right? If so, a link would probably be helpful. |
| war_m0nger04-17-07, 02:00 PM | I'd go paladin 5/psychic warrior3/warmind10/fist of raziel2 take the knight training feat, praticed manifester, power attack, leap attack feats and charging smite alternative ability and learn the lion's charge psionic power. Strenght 26, dex 13, con 16, int13, wis 15,cha24 +1 collision, psychokinetic burst, shocking, frost, roaring, heavy lance+ charging smite evil+greater psionic weapon+ greater weapon of energy power+power attack+leap attack Damage:1d8+ 1 enhancement bonus to damage+5 collision enhancement+1d6 psychokinetic energy (2d10 on critical hit)+1d6 electricity+1d6 cold+1d6 acid+1d6 sonic+60 damage smite evil+4d6 psionic damage from greater psionic weapon+4d6 fire damage weapon of energy+ 84 damage from power attack and leap attack to maximum and strenght= minimum 171 damage one hit!! On critical hit: 440 damage on critical hit!!! Remember, you get a full attack at the end of a charge that means 4 attacks at then end of your charge meaning if all your attacks hit you get 1760 damage per round !!! Holy Crap! You've obviously put a lot of thought into this... so, you can pretty much destroy anything in one round (or less, really). If you can somehow stack this with Great Cleave and a reach weapon... man. Anyone still think melee chars suck? |
| Shadowhowler04-17-07, 02:08 PM | What about a warblade? Just saw them last night... they look tough. They ARE tough, and would be the best melee choice by a mile... but he does not have the ToB to work with, so not an option. |
| war_m0nger04-17-07, 04:15 PM | They ARE tough, and would be the best melee choice by a mile... but he does not have the ToB to work with, so not an option. Ahhh... well I would definitely recommend that purchase when possible. That book revolutionized the martial classes IMO. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-18-07, 03:29 PM | They ARE tough, and would be the best melee choice by a mile... but he does not have the ToB to work with, so not an option. Well, does anyone have a link to it? Also, I have an unanswered question from my last post, and I am still wondering about that. Thanks |
| Shadowhowler04-18-07, 04:26 PM | I don't think ToB stuff has hit the SRD or any kinda of 'free link' yet. |
| heretic88804-18-07, 04:45 PM | I don't think ToB stuff has hit the SRD or any kinda of 'free link' yet. Actually, the Warblade is available for free on the WotC site: Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) |
| Kulthos04-18-07, 05:01 PM | At low levels the best melee class is cleric, and at higher levels the druid. Take one level of barbarian to pep up the cleric a bit. For abusive high-level action, play a druid with improved trip and/or improved grapple and have fun. "Form of, a Dire Bear!" |
| monkofcuthbert468404-18-07, 09:18 PM | Actually, the Warblade is available for free on the WotC site: Warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) This link would be helpful if it actually gave a list of stances and maneuvers, but what the hey? I'm hooked! |
| Greendevilman04-18-07, 09:23 PM | Yes it is rather sad that it doesn't. Of course since they put the manuever cards up on the web you might discover a useful aid to using the previous link if you follow this one. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) So... Warblade. :D Edit: But seriously ToB is amazing and if you play much D&D and like melee guys it is well worth the investment. One of my top 3 3.5 supplements for sure, if not the top. |
| bluemage5504-18-07, 10:37 PM | I'd go paladin 5/psychic warrior3/warmind10/fist of raziel2 take the knight training feat, praticed manifester, power attack, leap attack feats and charging smite alternative ability and learn the lion's charge psionic power. Strenght 26, dex 13, con 16, int13, wis 15,cha24 +1 collision, psychokinetic burst, shocking, frost, roaring, heavy lance+ charging smite evil+greater psionic weapon+ greater weapon of energy power+power attack+leap attack Damage:1d8+ 1 enhancement bonus to damage+5 collision enhancement+1d6 psychokinetic energy (2d10 on critical hit)+1d6 electricity+1d6 cold+1d6 acid+1d6 sonic+60 damage smite evil+4d6 psionic damage from greater psionic weapon+4d6 fire damage weapon of energy+ 84 damage from power attack and leap attack to maximum and strenght= minimum 171 damage one hit!! On critical hit: 440 damage on critical hit!!! Remember, you get a full attack at the end of a charge that means 4 attacks at then end of your charge meaning if all your attacks hit you get 1760 damage per round !!! Your calculations are off. You won't get the Greater Psionic Weapon damage to any attacks after the first, because you won't be able to refocus. It's also notable to mention that you are counting on your opponent not having any energy resistance, because the energy damage will decrease signifciantly if they do. Also, you are counting on an evil opponent, which is not always the case. You can do this much better by flying and going for a diving charge. If you dive for at least 30 feet, lose 10 feet of altitude or more, and use a piercing/slashing attack, you deal double damage. Let's see what we can do with a simple SRD-only build with no class dipping and no custom items: Fighter 10/War Mind 10 = BAB 20, Str 29 (33 when using Chain of Personal Superiority), ML 10th Manifest a fully augmented psionic lion's charge (full attack and +7 circumstance bonus to damage): +5 vicious collision greatsword of psychokinetic burst with full PA on a diving charge results in 4d6+190 slashing (includes +5*2 collision +7*2 circumstance +2*2 Weap Spec) +1d4 ectoplasmic +2d6 magic (average damage per hit: 213.5). The Deep Impact feat will probably ensure at least your first attack hitting on most opponents in spite of the PAing, so by all means, using Chain of Overwhelming Force adds another 70 damage average for a total of 283.5 average damage on your first attack. If you can afford to use psychofeedback to burn your other ability scores and increase Str, every 2 points of Str increase results in +6 damage per hit. |
| LordPendragon04-18-07, 10:48 PM | Your calculations are off. ... +5 vicious collision greatsword of psychokinetic burst with full PA on a diving charge results in 4d6+190 slashing (includes +5*2 collision +7*2 circumstance +2*2 Weap Spec) +1d4 ectoplasmic +2d6 magic (average damage per hit: 213.5). Yes, they were. But the real question is why does your build not use a valorous lance, which is the ultimate staple of all mounted chargers. |
| bluemage5504-18-07, 10:58 PM | As mentioned above, the build is Core-only. I could have gone with the lance+mount combo, but I found it imprudent because it isn't worth the cost for what you gain: Cost: Without Animal Companion or Paladin mount class features, any flying mount you could pick up would be excessively vulnerable unless you spend a boatload of cash protecting it, money that could be better spent elsewhere improving your defense and versatility. Gain: More damage even though your damage is probably already more than sufficient. Not worth it in my book. |
| alien_valentine04-19-07, 02:09 AM | Let's try to get back on topic. A couple of suggestions, the Bear Warrior PrC from the CW would be a nice middle ground between the Druid and a Barbarian. With the shapeshifting and the rage, you turn into a gigantic damage machine. Next, you can afford to be a less than perfect melee combatant, and you should use that to your advantage. Build a nimble character such as a monk or swasbuckler. Allow your favored soul to be the "tank" and use your character to run around scoring hits and trouble shooting as needed. This kind of character will become best friends with your spellthief. I'm DM'ing a campaing right now w/ a Favored soul, a monk, and a rogue, among others in the party. The monk and the rogue constantly range ahead and flank a single target, often oblitarating it quickly while the favored soul protects the "squishies" in the back. It works quite well. Finally since your campaing world seems to have a large number of forests and an obscenely large number of goblins, perhaps a TWF ranger w/ the favored enemy goblin would work well. This character would give you a great advantage in the vast wilderness that seems to be prevalant in your campaign, especially since no one else in your party would be the type to have a very high Knowledge (nature) or Survival. I personal think that the ranger is your best option. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-19-07, 01:34 PM | Yes it is rather sad that it doesn't. Of course since they put the manuever cards up on the web you might discover a useful aid to using the previous link if you follow this one. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) So... Warblade. :D Edit: But seriously ToB is amazing and if you play much D&D and like melee guys it is well worth the investment. One of my top 3 3.5 supplements for sure, if not the top. Thank you so much. I was worrying about not being able to make my character on time (I was ordering ToB on amazon), but you just saved my problem. Thanks again (and no, I'm not a suck-up). |
| heretic88804-19-07, 01:42 PM | Thank you so much. I was worrying about not being able to make my character on time (I was ordering ToB on amazon), but you just saved my problem. Thanks again (and no, I'm not a suck-up). Not to burst your bubble, man, but you still won't be able to make your character with just those two links. The maneuver cards don't include stances. Furthermore, when it comes to actually playing the Warblade, you should really read over the ToB chapter 'Blade Magic' which details the rules and whatnot of the maneuver system. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-19-07, 02:10 PM | Not to burst your bubble, man, but you still won't be able to make your character with just those two links. The maneuver cards don't include stances. Furthermore, when it comes to actually playing the Warblade, you should really read over the ToB chapter 'Blade Magic' which details the rules and whatnot of the maneuver system. Actually, the second link does include maneuvers. |
| heretic88804-19-07, 03:20 PM | Actually, the second link does include maneuvers. But, the second link doesn't include stances. And I should reiterate that there is more to the maneuver system than the individual maneuvers themselves. There are rules detailed as to when you can learn maneuvers, when you can initiate maneuvers, how you recover maneuvers, how you ready maneuvers, and so on. I don't think its such a great idea to play the class if you haven't read through the book, but to each his own. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-20-07, 02:02 PM | Okay, then where did this come from? Stance of Clarity Diamond Mind (Stance) Level: Swordsage 1, warblade 1 Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance You focus your efforts on a single opponent, studying his moves and preparing an attack. Your other opponents fade from sight as your mind locks onto your target. This stance allows you to focus on a single opponent to the exclusion of all others. You read your foe’s fighting stance, his favored attacks, and the methods he used to train. By combining these factors into a single analysis of his abilities, you see how to foil his attacks. While you are in this stance, you must choose a single opponent as your target at the start of your turn. You gain a +2 insight bonus to AC against that foe until you change the target of this stance. You take a –2 penalty to AC against all other opponents while using stance of clarity. |
| Nghtpunisher04-20-07, 02:16 PM | my friend took 2LVL Fighter then went monk.his fighter was h2h based but he didn't take any thing his monk would of gave him (for race he chose ware bear look into it you can do such insane dmg with it ) he then took at lvl 9-12 i forget he became a psionic |
| monkofcuthbert468404-25-07, 05:15 PM | The book finally arrived! How does crusader sound? |
| LordPendragon04-25-07, 05:28 PM | The book finally arrived! How does crusader sound? Crusader is decent, and tanky, but I wouldn't suggest it for your current party. You've already got a fair amount of healing power, so a more offensive build is in order. If you want to go with a Dexy fighter, take Swordsage, using Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade. You get to use Dex for everything :D If you want a Strengthy fighter, I personally prefer Warblade to Crusader. The Warblade's manoeuvre system is so much better, and I like how it gets to add Int to things. Also, if you're willing to stick to it for 20 levels, Dual Stance is one of the best abilities for a martial adept. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-25-07, 05:31 PM | Okay, but since when does a crusader a healing capability (beyond a limited amount of stances and maneuvers)? |
| Optimator04-25-07, 09:38 PM | Well, those maneuvers and stances. |
| Riplox04-25-07, 11:06 PM | Yeah. It looks like a Warblade would be your best bet as far as a good melee class. And to think, only they get the Iron Heart Surge ability which in my opinion is somewhat broken. Imagine being able to get rid of blindness, paralyzation, a curse, stunning, exhaustion, or nearly any other effect or spell with a duration every round that you recover the maneuver. Pretty sweet huh? Also, I want to message you something, but you've disallowed members to email you. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-26-07, 06:08 PM | Well, those maneuvers and stances. Okay, but do I have to take those maneuvers and stances? I mean, I kind of like the White Raven stuff. |
| Particle_Man04-26-07, 09:21 PM | You know, I think you should follow your heart. You like the Crusader. You like the White Raven maneuvers. I would say this would be a great "warrior leader - 'Come on men! We shall defeat this goblin horde!' " character, right there. "White Raven Tactics" will cause your allies to love you, as will the upper level white raven stuff that lets everyone get some free charge goodness. It has full BAB, it has that parking lot for damage that charges you up slightly, and you can have fun with the maneuvers. Go for it! Heck, you can even choose the same god/alignment as the favored soul and have a reason to adventure together. I won't say it is the absolute optimized warrior, but it is good enough for your purposes, and it will be something you will have fun with, which is the whole point of playing. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-27-07, 05:24 PM | Okay, random question about the Stone Bones maneuver. The wording makes it seem like you get to make an extra attack. I'm assuming that I misread it? |
| Particle_Man04-27-07, 06:26 PM | No extra attack. Stone bones uses up your one and only standard action to make your attack, giving you some DR if you hit. Thus you cannot take any other attacks during your action that round. |
| Treantmonklvl2004-27-07, 08:26 PM | If you care about what my stats are (for some strange reason that I probably don't want to know), then here they are: Str: 10+(-)0 Dex: 13+1 Con: 8-1 Int: 15+2 Wis: 15+2 Cha: 15+2 . Please tell me in 40 some posts somebody has addressed that these stats may not be the best for a melee fighter type and I just missed the post??? With a con of 8 you might as well throw your character sheet directly in the garbage unless you find an immediate way around it. I personally think a melee non-spellcaster can match a straight-druid in fighting ability - but with these stats you really need to go druid and stay wildshaped as much as possible...really. |
| Shadowhowler04-27-07, 08:50 PM | Please tell me in 40 some posts somebody has addressed that these stats may not be the best for a melee fighter type and I just missed the post??? With a con of 8 you might as well throw your character sheet directly in the garbage unless you find an immediate way around it. I personally think a melee non-spellcaster can match a straight-druid in fighting ability - but with these stats you really need to go druid and stay wildshaped as much as possible...really. Yikes. Yeah, I'd have to agree... those are NOT the stats of a fighter, or any sort of melee baised character. Those are good caster stats. Not great for a melee focused Druid, becuase of the con. Owch. |
| Xavorin04-28-07, 12:04 PM | Please tell me in 40 some posts somebody has addressed that these stats may not be the best for a melee fighter type and I just missed the post??? With a con of 8 you might as well throw your character sheet directly in the garbage unless you find an immediate way around it. I personally think a melee non-spellcaster can match a straight-druid in fighting ability - but with these stats you really need to go druid and stay wildshaped as much as possible...really. I was assuming that he took the test everyone is taking, and it told him that those were his ability scores for real life. Or is it just me. |
| monkofcuthbert468404-29-07, 04:38 PM | I was assuming that he took the test everyone is taking, and it told him that those were his ability scores for real life. Or is it just me. You just won a cookie (for the test part). :cookie: |
| monkofcuthbert468404-29-07, 04:43 PM | No extra attack. Stone bones uses up your one and only standard action to make your attack, giving you some DR if you hit. Thus you cannot take any other attacks during your action that round. Okay thanks. In case anyone was wondering, here's what the maneuver does: When you use this maneuver, you make a single melee attack. If this attack hits, you gain damage reduction 5/adamantine for 1 round. |