Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rogue Guy 10-31-05, 07:10 AM	Hi i am new at being a rogue and i couldnt remember if the class had spells but if u could please help out out picking the best race skill, feats and maybe spell for a rogue class that would be great... Just post what skills, feats and maybe spell that is very important for me... And a little extra thing when is Rogues allowed to used 2 short swords or something similiar ?
Trakx 10-31-05, 06:46 PM	I'm kind of in a hurry, but I'll help you get started. To be the first to say this, as I know someone will, "It depends on what kind of Rogue you're going for as for what is 'best'". Because you asked about two-weapon fighting, I'll assume you're going for the fighting type. Utilizing your high Dexterity, you'll want to pick up the feat: Weapon Finesse. It uses Dexterity instead of Strength for certain weapons, such as Shortswords. While you don't HAVE to have the feat: Two-Weapon Fighting to use two weapons, it certainly helps. I'd recommend picking it up. Taking the core class of Swashbuckler grants you Weapon Finesse at 1st level. Many DM's will concider Swashbuckler to classify as Rogue or Fighter when it comes to "Favored Class", but it's best to check as the experience penalties can be bad (well, only if you're having more than two classes, I believe). And if you do pick up more than two classes, if you find two feats that you want, Fighter for two levels is great. Scout is another great core class that works a lot like Rogue, but is more outdoorsy. The Scout's version of "Sneak Attack" is Skirmish, which is activated apon moving 10 feet instead of when the enemy is flat-footed. For skills, Tumble of at least 5 ranks for a fighter-type Rogue. Hide and Move Silently for the sneaky sort. I might add more later, but off the cuff there's a good start (I think)...
allenchan 10-31-05, 06:49 PM	I agree, define 'rogue'; its perhaps the most versatile core class. Do you want a skill monkey? A trapfinder? a twf sneak-attacker? a UMD expert? It goes on and on.
Rogue Guy 11-01-05, 04:50 AM	Oops sry for that but here it comes... I am looking for a rogue that shoots with bows and then when enemys comes close i will then use my 2 shortswords and a rogue that for an example hides and then while the friends are fighting she goes behind the enemys and start stabbing them down with surprize... Can anyone tell me the sneak system to that would be great and the hide system
Rogue Guy 11-01-05, 08:41 AM	up
allenchan 11-01-05, 03:36 PM	Bumping your thread within 24hours is against the CoC. But anyways, there is no "sneak system" or "hide system", and, actually, I'd recommend a Ranger over a Rogue. They're far better at melee and still have the necessary hide/move silently skills available to them, since that is all you want and not trapfinding/skillmonkey.
Rogue Guy 11-01-05, 03:39 PM	ok then sry and thanks for ur reply!
Trakx 11-01-05, 04:01 PM	Bumping your thread? What does that mean? And to back up the reasons for going Ranger, you get the Two Weapon Fighting feat for free at 2nd level, and it continues getting better as you progress (getting Improved Two Weapon Fighting, etc.). Rangers get better saves, higher hitdice, and a 1:1 Base Attack Bonus. And since they have Hide and Move Silently as class skills, it sounds like Ranger is right up your alley.
MindWandererB 11-01-05, 04:28 PM	I'll try to answer the questions directly: Race: Human, elf, or halfling are probably the best choices. Humans get a bonus feat and skill points, elves get Search bonuses and whatnot, and halflings are the lords of stealth (among PHB races). If you're focusing on combat skills, however, I'd go with human. Skills: Sounds like you want to use a little bit of magic, for which you'll need Use Magic Device. Hide and Move Silently are must-haves for stealth, and Search, Disable Device, and Open Lock are pretty much mandatory to fill the party's niche for a rogue. Other skills are less mandatory, but I recommend Tumble to help in combat maneuvering, and choose the rest based on your vision of the character's background and talents. Feats: To do the two-weapon thing, you'll need the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, which you can take right off the bat (you'll want to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting as soon as you qualify for it). Weapon Finesse, as mentioned before, is a must-have unless the difference between your Dex and Str is small. For archery, you'll want to start with Point-Blank Shot, then I recommend Rapid Shot, Manyshot, and Greater Manyshot (from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, although it's not a psionic feat). There are other options, but I think you'll be happy with this plan of action, which will carry you up to at least level 12. Rangers: Mostly a matter of what the party needs, as well as personal preference. I like rogues better, personally- the difference in attack bonus is small (if psychic warriors, soulknives, clerics, and monks can be considered good melee classes, then so can rogues), and sneak attacking is a gift from heaven. However, both choices have their merits. "Bumping": Posting a message to a thread just to move the thread higher on the list. As for learning how to use stealth in the game... I'm not going to summarize here, but you can learn how to use skills on pp. 62-66 in the PHB, especially the section on Opposed Checks on page 64. Ask your DM for more explanation.
Rogue Guy 11-04-05, 03:47 PM	When can you learn feats as a ranger ? level 1-2-3 and so on or ?
Tony Vargas 11-04-05, 05:27 PM	All classes recieve feats at 1st, and at every level divisible by 3: 3, 6, 9, etc... Rangers get some bonus feats, Track at 1st, TWF or Rapid Shote at 2nd, Endurance at 3rd and two more combat feats at 6 and 11. Fighters get a feat at first, and each even-numbered level thereafter. Rogues start getting special abilities at high levels, and can choose feats, instead, if they like. There are other classes that get extra feats, but they probably aren't relevant to your question. ... Rogues do not get spells, though they can use the skill Use Magic Device to use wands, scrolls and the like normally only useable by classes that /do/ cast spells. Races: Halflings make good rogues, it's thier favored class, so it's easier for them to multiclass with rogue without exp penalties. Thier small size and high DEX makes them good at stealth. Elves, similarly, have high DEX and some perception bonuses that make them pretty good rogues, they also have low-light vision, which is good for sneaking around at night (but not so much underground). Humans can do any class reasonably well, and the extra skill point and feat can help. Half-orcs, though thier INT penalty hurts a little, also have some potential, they're the only PC race with a 30' base move /and/ Darkvision, both very useful for a character that's likely to be scouting around ahead of the party. Skills: For a stealthy, sneak-attacking rogue, Hide, Move Silently, Spot & Listen are critical. If you want to keep sneak-attacking by flanking (basically coming up 'behind' the enemy while thier fighting one of your allies), Tumble is helpful to move past enemies without provoking attacks of opportunity. The typical rogue is also expected to find and remove traps (Search & Disable Device skills). Feats: You'll want Two-Weapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse (which requires a +1 BAB, so you'll be waiting till 3rd level for it) and perhaps Quickdraw to switch rapidly between archery an TWF, to be a good archer, you might want Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Precise Shot (the last, mainly, if you want to spend most of a combat shooting, rather than engaging in melee). That's six feats, which'd take a non-human rogue until 15th level to attain. Or, you could multiclass and take fighter and/or ranger levels and accumulate feats much faster (but then your sneak attack won't be as good). One option to cut down your need for feats is to take TWF and Quickdraw first, you can use TWF with /thrown/ weapons, so you can throw daggers or darts (one in the surprise round, two in the first regular round), then quickdraw your pair of shortsword for melee. Also, most rogues like having Improved Initiative to maximize thier chances of acting while the enemy is still flat-footed and thus vulnerable to sneak attack.
tc12 11-04-05, 05:52 PM	Archery and TWF are both feat-intensive tracks. I'd be hard to be good at both, you should focus on one. For example with a high Dex your bow usage will be good anyway, you might use all your feats for TWF. Think of it this way, you're not gonna take much damage when your opponents are at bow range. But once you engage in melee it's literally do or die. So you don't want your TWF to be weakened. That said, rapid shot is great, so perhaps PB shot / rapid shot might be worth it but I'd avoid more than that if you still want to do two weapons in melee. Otherwise consider one weapon and a buckler, which won't interfere with your archery. Not to say you get the defense while using the bow, just that you can still wear it without interference. Quick Draw is good to then switch between bow and your melee weapon as someone mentions above. TC
Jaxgaret 11-04-05, 05:55 PM	Go Ranger/Rogue. It's a great combo. A good path to go is just get three levels of Rogue, and put the rest into Ranger, that's if you want mostly to be combat-oriented. Otherwise, there are tons of different level combinations you can go with. A good feat to take at first level with this class combination is Able Learner, especially if you're a Human, which will allow you to treat all skills on your skill list as class skills, that way you don't have to worry about cross-class skills. But Rangers do have a lot of Rogue skills on their list already, so you might just want to go with more combat-oriented feats.
General_Ridley 11-04-05, 06:11 PM	Can't forget Changelings. if you have Races of Eberron, the Changeling Rogue substitution levels give you 10+INT skills a level, and none of the trade offs are really that bad. plus, they give you the whole master of disguise thing.
Quirriff 11-04-05, 07:29 PM	Oops sry for that but here it comes... I am looking for a rogue that shoots with bows and then when enemys comes close i will then use my 2 shortswords and a rogue that for an example hides and then while the friends are fighting she goes behind the enemys and start stabbing them down with surprize... You're after a Ranger dude