best school for a wizard if any? [Archive] - Wizards Community

best school for a wizard if any? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bangla8
09-30-04, 12:52 AM what school do you choose when you play a wizard or do you choose a school at all? give me some info im trying to decide what i should do!
anglar
09-30-04, 12:55 AM IMO, I like to play a generalist wizard. I don't think what a specialist gains versus what he gives up is worth it. I'm some will disagree with me, and that is their right. Personally, I like the comfort in knowing that I can learn any spell out there given enough gold and time.
GaffeR
09-30-04, 01:16 AM evocation and conjuration seem to be pretty popular for specializing.

What about if you had to drop ONE school? Which would it be and why?
Faragon
09-30-04, 08:03 AM I prefer the enchantment school, dropping evocation for it. I'm not much for blasting things. Plus, I always say that influencing an NPC properly is a safer and mostly more effective way of accomplishing your goals.

Transmutation and Conjuration are the most diverse though.
mercurywyrm
09-30-04, 08:15 AM If I had to drop one school it would be necromancy. I would say that the best school is probably transmutation or conjuration or illusion. Abjuration, allthough neccesary in a magical world and a bad choice to lose isn't very good at solving non-magical problems.
Zelphi
09-30-04, 08:46 AM Divinations isn't a good idea, whatever specialised school you pick you have to take one of your two free spells each level as a spell of that school.
amethal
09-30-04, 09:52 AM Divinations isn't a good idea, whatever specialised school you pick you have to take one of your two free spells each level as a spell of that school.
Diviner can be a good choice, as you only get one barred school (necromancy, probably) and most wizards can benefit from the extra divination spell per day at each spell level.

It depends on how important the spells you add to your spellbook each level actually are. Some campaigns have enough scrolls, enemy spellbooks etc. lying about as treasure that its not much of a drawback.
dutch206
09-30-04, 10:01 AM IMHO, the best wizard is a specialist Illusionist, dropping enchantment to get the specialization. Enchantment spells seem woefully underpowered in 3.5 compared to previous editions of the game. This gives your wizard access to the benefits of specialization without losing any of the major schools of magic.
BetaFlame
09-30-04, 10:18 AM I guess it depends on your tastes.

When I play Elven/Human Wizards, I go for Evocation, dropping Enchant and Illusion. In my opinion you can never go wrong with a good, healthy, explosion

when I play a gnome, however, I tend to play Illusionists (for obvious reasons). Dropping Necro and Enchant.

Without the ability to superhike your DCs Enchant doesnt seem worth the trouble anymore.

Transmutation is always a good school to spec in too. Soooo many options
Will Brandiman
09-30-04, 10:24 AM 3.0 - Necromancer, giving up Divination or Enchantment.
3.5 - Don't bother! Giving up 2 schools is simply too much buck for your bang.
Beamup
09-30-04, 10:32 AM Diviner is a very powerful choice in many cases. There are ample very useful Divinations at every level to make it well worthwhile to take one each level and memorize one per level per day. And since you only have to drop one school...

If you're trying to be a pure blaster, Divination isn't a good pick. But for a more versatile utility-oriented mage, it's an extremely attractive option.
Celt
09-30-04, 10:42 AM 3.0 - Necromancer, giving up Divination or Enchantment.
I made that mistake once, I'll never do it again (I gave up Ench I think). Necromancy had nothing going for it in 3.0. One or two good spells but nothing worth specializing in.

Unless I'm playing a specific archetype (gnome illusionist for ex.) I'll either play a generalist wizard or a Diviner giving up Necro. Necromancy is better in 3.5 but still nothing to be missed. It's a very rare occurance when giving up two schools is worth it.
carnivore
09-30-04, 10:45 AM i really dont like wiz and usually play sorc.

but for specialist wiz.....as was said earlier by Faragon, mercurywyrm, dutch206, BetaFlame

illusion , conjuration , transmutation

but with illusion you get shadow conjuration and shadow evocation.....so illusionist seems best from that standpoint, and lose enchantment, and evocation(not much of a loss since you still can use it with shadow evoc)

as for divination ....amethal, and Beamup make good points that you only lose one school(ench,or evoc)

never be an evoker , or enchanter as they will be much weaker in the long run.
Zsasz_Diedne
09-30-04, 10:56 AM I have to agree with Anglar, I never found specialist to be worth it in three-oh and still do not in three-five. If for some reason the need arose I would go Transmuter or Abjurer. Illusions are nice (very nice with certain Prcs), but not very helpful when fighting opponents immune to such things, Shadow Conjurations and Evocations notwithstanding.
Thermanshs (backup ed.)
09-30-04, 11:28 AM what school do you choose when you play a wizard or do you choose a school at all? give me some info im trying to decide what i should do!

Illusionist is the key banning Evocation and Conjuration. The reason why I beleive this would be described in THIS THREAD (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185835) within the next few days ;)
tarkin
09-30-04, 12:05 PM Two ways to look at it: Role Play and min-max. Both are fine. Role Play wise, Necromancy is usually the funnest to play. You get to be all creepy. The other schools (with the possible exception of the know it all divination), just don't have as strong a stereotype to play off of.

Min Max wise, it is another story. The main benefits of choosing a school is basically casting a single extra spell of each level, each day.

Ask yourself, which school has spells that you want every day, at what levels. Here are my lists, by level with school

1st Abjur, Evocat, Enchant,
2nd Conjur, Evoc, Illus, Necro, Trans
3rd: Abjur, Evoc, Illus, Necro,
4th: Abjur, Enchant, Evoc, Illus, Necrom, Transm
5th: Conj, Enchant, Evoc, Transm
6th: Abjur, Conjur, Div, Evoc, Illus, Transm
7th: Conj, Ench, Illusion,
8th: Conj, Ench, Trans,
9th: Abjur, Enchant, Evoc, Necro, Transm,

So that would be Abjuration: 5/9, Conjuration 5/9, Divination: 1/9, Enchantment 6/9, Evocation 7/9, Illusion 5/9, 4/9, and Transmutation 6/9.

This is just from the core books, of course, but it is typical.
Evocation is the winner, though Enchantment and Transmutation are also good.

(The 7 spells I would always be willing to memorize from evocation are:
1: Magic Missile
2: Scorching Ray
3: Fireball/Lightning bolt
4: All of them. Resilient sphere is one I like a lot.
5: Cone of Cold/Wall of Force
6: Contigency
9: Meteor Swarm

Yes, the ability of the Shadow Illusion spells to cast Conjuration and Evocation spells is helpfull. But you don't hae to be an Illusionist to learn them. Just don't ban Illusion spells. I can be a Necromancer, ban conjuration spells and Evocation spells, then still learn the Shadow spells.
BetaFlame
09-30-04, 01:02 PM If I am starting at 1st level, I never, ever, ever, ever give up Evocation. I did it once, and willl NEVER go it again.

It boiled down to me being a very crappy ranged attacker till about 7th level.

Dropping Necro and Enchant are the way to go in my opinion. The only spells I kinda miss from Necro are Magic Jar and Astral Projection, but frankly, I like Plane Shift better than AP, and I tend to play Exalted characters, so I dont use Magic Jar anyway.

Dropping Enchant? I mean.. what is there to miss? Touch of Idoicy is nice, and so is Dominate (Blank). But really, if you want to play a charmer, go for a Telepath Psion.

A Gnome Illusionist with Evocation is awesome. You never know if the fireball is -real- or not.
bloodycard
09-30-04, 02:50 PM Simple, Necromancy.:devil: But if your DM make a big mistake by alowing you to play any 3 edition book and using 3.5 Monster Manual, them don`t give up Conjuration. The spell Summon Undead (see Magic of Faerun or Ghostwalk) is really overpowered. The look on the DM face when he saw a LV9 gnome necromancer summoning 5 huge cloud giant skeleton killing is LV16 tiefling paladin in 3 round.

Whe Told him a thousand time that using both 3 edition and 3.5 was a bad idea, but nooo he did listen.
BlaineTog
09-30-04, 07:41 PM I highly suggest looking over the Specialist Wizard variants in Unearthed Arcana. A great book that did a particularly good job on these.
Zardnaar
09-30-04, 09:59 PM I can usually live without Necromancy (miss enervate though) and Enchantment (double nerf in 3.5-lower DCs and reduced spell effectiveness).
Tehril
10-01-04, 12:40 AM While I typically play mages, I am planning a foray into the world of specialized wizardry.

The character that I am currently favouring is a grey elf Diviner, with a knack for Illusions and a penchant for the Shadow Weave... which emphasizes illusion, necromancy and enchantment.

Now, I originally wanted to drop Evocation, but I found that I love the Sphere spells far too much... I was originally going to specialize in Illusion with Evoc/Conj as my opposition schools, but then I realized that I would have little to no offensive abilities to contribute to the party until Shadow Conjuration rolled around... and I would be pretty screwed against critters like undead.

So I gave in to my inner demons and took the Divination. I'll play him as a character who's studied divinations in depth, but loves illusions and enchantments...

So, if I can't fool it I charm it...and failing that, I blast it. :|

My last mage was focuses (but not specialized) on non lethal neutralization magic... divide the foes and let the fighters take them out... or completely negate the enemy by capturing them... I had my eyes set on Wall of Force, Force Cage and Maze...

Web, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Resilient Sphere (never got to cast that...he died too young :( )... IF there was a specialist that focused on that playing style (rather than a churn and burn mage) I would've specilized in it in an instant.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bangla8 09-30-04, 12:52 AM	what school do you choose when you play a wizard or do you choose a school at all? give me some info im trying to decide what i should do!
anglar 09-30-04, 12:55 AM	IMO, I like to play a generalist wizard. I don't think what a specialist gains versus what he gives up is worth it. I'm some will disagree with me, and that is their right. Personally, I like the comfort in knowing that I can learn any spell out there given enough gold and time.
GaffeR 09-30-04, 01:16 AM	evocation and conjuration seem to be pretty popular for specializing. What about if you had to drop ONE school? Which would it be and why?
Faragon 09-30-04, 08:03 AM	I prefer the enchantment school, dropping evocation for it. I'm not much for blasting things. Plus, I always say that influencing an NPC properly is a safer and mostly more effective way of accomplishing your goals. Transmutation and Conjuration are the most diverse though.
mercurywyrm 09-30-04, 08:15 AM	If I had to drop one school it would be necromancy. I would say that the best school is probably transmutation or conjuration or illusion. Abjuration, allthough neccesary in a magical world and a bad choice to lose isn't very good at solving non-magical problems.
Zelphi 09-30-04, 08:46 AM	Divinations isn't a good idea, whatever specialised school you pick you have to take one of your two free spells each level as a spell of that school.
amethal 09-30-04, 09:52 AM	Divinations isn't a good idea, whatever specialised school you pick you have to take one of your two free spells each level as a spell of that school. Diviner can be a good choice, as you only get one barred school (necromancy, probably) and most wizards can benefit from the extra divination spell per day at each spell level. It depends on how important the spells you add to your spellbook each level actually are. Some campaigns have enough scrolls, enemy spellbooks etc. lying about as treasure that its not much of a drawback.
dutch206 09-30-04, 10:01 AM	IMHO, the best wizard is a specialist Illusionist, dropping enchantment to get the specialization. Enchantment spells seem woefully underpowered in 3.5 compared to previous editions of the game. This gives your wizard access to the benefits of specialization without losing any of the major schools of magic.
BetaFlame 09-30-04, 10:18 AM	I guess it depends on your tastes. When I play Elven/Human Wizards, I go for Evocation, dropping Enchant and Illusion. In my opinion you can never go wrong with a good, healthy, explosion when I play a gnome, however, I tend to play Illusionists (for obvious reasons). Dropping Necro and Enchant. Without the ability to superhike your DCs Enchant doesnt seem worth the trouble anymore. Transmutation is always a good school to spec in too. Soooo many options
Will Brandiman 09-30-04, 10:24 AM	3.0 - Necromancer, giving up Divination or Enchantment. 3.5 - Don't bother! Giving up 2 schools is simply too much buck for your bang.
Beamup 09-30-04, 10:32 AM	Diviner is a very powerful choice in many cases. There are ample very useful Divinations at every level to make it well worthwhile to take one each level and memorize one per level per day. And since you only have to drop one school... If you're trying to be a pure blaster, Divination isn't a good pick. But for a more versatile utility-oriented mage, it's an extremely attractive option.
Celt 09-30-04, 10:42 AM	3.0 - Necromancer, giving up Divination or Enchantment. I made that mistake once, I'll never do it again (I gave up Ench I think). Necromancy had nothing going for it in 3.0. One or two good spells but nothing worth specializing in. Unless I'm playing a specific archetype (gnome illusionist for ex.) I'll either play a generalist wizard or a Diviner giving up Necro. Necromancy is better in 3.5 but still nothing to be missed. It's a very rare occurance when giving up two schools is worth it.
carnivore 09-30-04, 10:45 AM	i really dont like wiz and usually play sorc. but for specialist wiz.....as was said earlier by Faragon, mercurywyrm, dutch206, BetaFlame illusion , conjuration , transmutation but with illusion you get shadow conjuration and shadow evocation.....so illusionist seems best from that standpoint, and lose enchantment, and evocation(not much of a loss since you still can use it with shadow evoc) as for divination ....amethal, and Beamup make good points that you only lose one school(ench,or evoc) never be an evoker , or enchanter as they will be much weaker in the long run.
Zsasz_Diedne 09-30-04, 10:56 AM	I have to agree with Anglar, I never found specialist to be worth it in three-oh and still do not in three-five. If for some reason the need arose I would go Transmuter or Abjurer. Illusions are nice (very nice with certain Prcs), but not very helpful when fighting opponents immune to such things, Shadow Conjurations and Evocations notwithstanding.
Thermanshs (backup ed.) 09-30-04, 11:28 AM	what school do you choose when you play a wizard or do you choose a school at all? give me some info im trying to decide what i should do! Illusionist is the key banning Evocation and Conjuration. The reason why I beleive this would be described in THIS THREAD (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185835) within the next few days ;)
tarkin 09-30-04, 12:05 PM	Two ways to look at it: Role Play and min-max. Both are fine. Role Play wise, Necromancy is usually the funnest to play. You get to be all creepy. The other schools (with the possible exception of the know it all divination), just don't have as strong a stereotype to play off of. Min Max wise, it is another story. The main benefits of choosing a school is basically casting a single extra spell of each level, each day. Ask yourself, which school has spells that you want every day, at what levels. Here are my lists, by level with school 1st Abjur, Evocat, Enchant, 2nd Conjur, Evoc, Illus, Necro, Trans 3rd: Abjur, Evoc, Illus, Necro, 4th: Abjur, Enchant, Evoc, Illus, Necrom, Transm 5th: Conj, Enchant, Evoc, Transm 6th: Abjur, Conjur, Div, Evoc, Illus, Transm 7th: Conj, Ench, Illusion, 8th: Conj, Ench, Trans, 9th: Abjur, Enchant, Evoc, Necro, Transm, So that would be Abjuration: 5/9, Conjuration 5/9, Divination: 1/9, Enchantment 6/9, Evocation 7/9, Illusion 5/9, 4/9, and Transmutation 6/9. This is just from the core books, of course, but it is typical. Evocation is the winner, though Enchantment and Transmutation are also good. (The 7 spells I would always be willing to memorize from evocation are: 1: Magic Missile 2: Scorching Ray 3: Fireball/Lightning bolt 4: All of them. Resilient sphere is one I like a lot. 5: Cone of Cold/Wall of Force 6: Contigency 9: Meteor Swarm Yes, the ability of the Shadow Illusion spells to cast Conjuration and Evocation spells is helpfull. But you don't hae to be an Illusionist to learn them. Just don't ban Illusion spells. I can be a Necromancer, ban conjuration spells and Evocation spells, then still learn the Shadow spells.
BetaFlame 09-30-04, 01:02 PM	If I am starting at 1st level, I never, ever, ever, ever give up Evocation. I did it once, and willl NEVER go it again. It boiled down to me being a very crappy ranged attacker till about 7th level. Dropping Necro and Enchant are the way to go in my opinion. The only spells I kinda miss from Necro are Magic Jar and Astral Projection, but frankly, I like Plane Shift better than AP, and I tend to play Exalted characters, so I dont use Magic Jar anyway. Dropping Enchant? I mean.. what is there to miss? Touch of Idoicy is nice, and so is Dominate (Blank). But really, if you want to play a charmer, go for a Telepath Psion. A Gnome Illusionist with Evocation is awesome. You never know if the fireball is -real- or not.
bloodycard 09-30-04, 02:50 PM	Simple, Necromancy.:devil: But if your DM make a big mistake by alowing you to play any 3 edition book and using 3.5 Monster Manual, them don`t give up Conjuration. The spell Summon Undead (see Magic of Faerun or Ghostwalk) is really overpowered. The look on the DM face when he saw a LV9 gnome necromancer summoning 5 huge cloud giant skeleton killing is LV16 tiefling paladin in 3 round. Whe Told him a thousand time that using both 3 edition and 3.5 was a bad idea, but nooo he did listen.
BlaineTog 09-30-04, 07:41 PM	I highly suggest looking over the Specialist Wizard variants in Unearthed Arcana. A great book that did a particularly good job on these.
Zardnaar 09-30-04, 09:59 PM	I can usually live without Necromancy (miss enervate though) and Enchantment (double nerf in 3.5-lower DCs and reduced spell effectiveness).
Tehril 10-01-04, 12:40 AM	While I typically play mages, I am planning a foray into the world of specialized wizardry. The character that I am currently favouring is a grey elf Diviner, with a knack for Illusions and a penchant for the Shadow Weave... which emphasizes illusion, necromancy and enchantment. Now, I originally wanted to drop Evocation, but I found that I love the Sphere spells far too much... I was originally going to specialize in Illusion with Evoc/Conj as my opposition schools, but then I realized that I would have little to no offensive abilities to contribute to the party until Shadow Conjuration rolled around... and I would be pretty screwed against critters like undead. So I gave in to my inner demons and took the Divination. I'll play him as a character who's studied divinations in depth, but loves illusions and enchantments... So, if I can't fool it I charm it...and failing that, I blast it. :\| My last mage was focuses (but not specialized) on non lethal neutralization magic... divide the foes and let the fighters take them out... or completely negate the enemy by capturing them... I had my eyes set on Wall of Force, Force Cage and Maze... Web, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Resilient Sphere (never got to cast that...he died too young :( )... IF there was a specialist that focused on that playing style (rather than a churn and burn mage) I would've specilized in it in an instant.