Best way to cross-class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best way to cross-class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Koujow
04-30-06, 03:08 PM So, here is the scenario. Lets say I am playing a a lvl 1 human wizard. I by level 10, I want to have 5 lvls in Wizard and 5 lvls in fighter. Lets just skip any questions on type of scenario and other questions that aren't really drastcially important to his question. (THat sounded mean. :( ) Which would be a better choice?
•Start off at level 1 wizard, then cross class at level 2, then return at lvl 3, cross at lvl 4, etc, etc.
•Start at lvl 1 and play as a wizard till lvl 5, then cross class at lvl 6.
•Something else that I can't think of. :D
RedMage
04-30-06, 04:03 PM Wizard/Fighter Build:
1st level- Wizard. Make sure to have maxed out concentration. Choose mostly protective spells, dont take magic related feats at first level. Point blank shot if you want to be an AA. Combat Expertice for extra defence leaves you open to be more liberal with your spells.
2nd-5th level - Fighter. Choose a weapon, get weapon spec in it. Enjoy the extra HP, Fort Save, and BAB. Fighter skills are all bad, so cross class ranks in Use Magic Device.
From there on - Wizard. If you want to be an Arcane Archer, do so. If you want to be an Eldrich Knight, do so. If you want to be a Dragon Deciple, then you should have been a sorcerer.

This could work better-
Wizard/Rogue build:
1st level- Wizard. Make sure to have maxed out concentration. Choose mostly protective spells, dont take magic related feats at first level. Dodge is good if you qualify.
2nd and 3rd level - Rogue. Get Evasion, Sneak Attack, +3 to reflex saves, and lots of skill points. Max out Use Magic Device, spread the remaining skill points around. Dont take knowledge or decipher script with your rogue skill points. Hide and Open Lock get outdated once you have Knock and Invis. spells. Move Silently is a great skill to go along with Invis, Tumble can get you out of some tight spots. Take Diplomasy if you want to try to get a discount on magic items.
From there on in- Wizard. You're only two levels behind so by level 10 you'll have access to all the spells that make your rogue skills look silly anyway.

Wizard/Rogue/Fighter build:
1st level- Wizard. Make sure to have maxed out concentration. Choose mostly protective spells, dont take magic related feats at first level. Dodge, PBF, Combat Expertice good choices.
2nd-3rd level - Rogue. See above.
4th-8th level - Figher. See above.
9th level - Realise you should have been a bard.
Koujow
05-01-06, 07:15 AM Ok! THat works.
But, I was just wondering a decent way to cross class in general, what would be best. The Wizard/Fighter was just an example. Sorry, guess I should have explained more.
Zucker_Artson
05-01-06, 07:28 AM In general I'd take the first level of the class that has the most skillpoints. In the example of RedMage, the Wizard/Rogue I would take the Rogue level first. The difference is 24 skillpoints.

So I'd prefer Ranger and Rogue over a Bard over a Barbarian and Druid over the rest.

The exception is the Paladin or Monk because you won't be allowed to take more levels of these classes when you multiclass away from them. If you want to take a few levels of another class with these you'll have to take those first.
runestar
05-01-06, 08:31 AM I would go fighter1/wiz5/eldritch knight4. But that's just me... ;)

Your 1st lv should be in the class which gives you the most starting benefit. So I would suggest fighter as its starting max hp is higher than a wizard, so a wiz5/ftr5 would have lower average hp than a ftr5/wiz5. Other than that, nothing much to offer, really. Though you may want the able learner feat to be able to consistently max out your main skills at each lv without paying henious cross-class penalties. :)
DrMorganes
05-01-06, 09:08 AM Does your DM enforce the multiclass (not cross class - "cross class" referrs to skills not on a given class's skill list) XP penalty? If so you'll need to take a level of Wiz, then a level of Ftr, then a level of Wiz, etc or suffer a penalty to earned XP until your levels come to within one of each others. Avoid this by selecting a race that has either Wizard or Fighter as a preferred class. For example, elves prefer Wizard (which also opens up the Arcane Archer Prestige Class for you, and Races of the Wild has some NICE racial substitution levels for elven wizards!) and dwarves prefer Fighter. Humans, of course, count their highest class level as their preferred class, so they're always a good choice for a two-class multiclassing character.

Of course, if your DM does NOT enforce the multiclass XP penalty, fagheddaboudit ;)
Elemental_Master
05-01-06, 04:13 PM Mith Chain... Need I say more?

The main problem that i always find in multi classing is armor. Each class makes it based aroud there armor. Barb havein fast movement in medium armor, monk losing almost everything in any armor and fighter fealing naked outside of anything but full plate.

That's why if u wanna cross with a mage make sure to either use mith chain or a monk :)
Wonton2006
05-01-06, 04:21 PM Does your DM enforce the XP penalty? If so, be human. Simple.
CONMAN2469
05-01-06, 05:36 PM Any Elf, 2/Rogue 2/Fighter, then Wizard until you can get a prestiege or just Wizard. Practiced Spellcaster fills out the 4 Ro/Fi, and as long as your non-preferred classes are within one of each other, you'll be OK!
Keenath
05-01-06, 05:38 PM For a Ftr5/Wiz5 by 10th level, here are some considerations.

If you aren't human, elf, dwarf, or half-elf, you're looking at a multiclassing issue. So, if your favored class isn't Fighter, Wizard, or Any, you'll need to do 1-and-1, no question, to avoid XP penalties.

So, which comes first? Your first consideration is skill points. Almost everything ends up being retroactive except skills. So make sure you take full advantage of that x4.
That's not an issue here, as Fighter and Wiz both end up as 2+Int. Class skill lists, though, are going to be an issue. As such, I'd start with Wizard just so you can get your Spellcraft and Concentration to decent levels at the outset.

This is my suggestion, then:

If you have a multiclassing issue, just go for Wiz/Ftr/Wiz/Ftr until you meet the prereqs for Eldritch Knight (or Spellsword).

If you're free to multiclass without XP penalties, I suggest Wiz first, with concentration on defensive spells that you can use while fighting in melee. Your attack bonus is only 1 point lower than a level 1 fighter, though your HP is much worse, so feel free to use a crossbow or similar weapon and ignore damage dealing 1st level spells.
Second level should be fighter, and your first bonus feat. Your HP should be decent by this point, though still somewhat low compared to a 2nd level fighter.

At that point, I'd go ahead and take two more fighter levels. Leave FTR 4 alone until you have and equal number of wiz levels, though; there's no real benefit to taking FTR 4 until you really need the BAB. Once you're a ftr 3/wiz 5, you have your third level spells, so go ahead and take two more fighter levels, and you're where you want to be.

I'd suggest getting into Eldritch Knight as soon as you can, though, unless you're desperate for more fighter feats. Go wiz1, ftr1, wiz2-5, and you can make EK by seventh level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Koujow 04-30-06, 03:08 PM	So, here is the scenario. Lets say I am playing a a lvl 1 human wizard. I by level 10, I want to have 5 lvls in Wizard and 5 lvls in fighter. Lets just skip any questions on type of scenario and other questions that aren't really drastcially important to his question. (THat sounded mean. :( ) Which would be a better choice? •Start off at level 1 wizard, then cross class at level 2, then return at lvl 3, cross at lvl 4, etc, etc. •Start at lvl 1 and play as a wizard till lvl 5, then cross class at lvl 6. •Something else that I can't think of. :D
RedMage 04-30-06, 04:03 PM	Wizard/Fighter Build: 1st level- Wizard. Make sure to have maxed out concentration. Choose mostly protective spells, dont take magic related feats at first level. Point blank shot if you want to be an AA. Combat Expertice for extra defence leaves you open to be more liberal with your spells. 2nd-5th level - Fighter. Choose a weapon, get weapon spec in it. Enjoy the extra HP, Fort Save, and BAB. Fighter skills are all bad, so cross class ranks in Use Magic Device. From there on - Wizard. If you want to be an Arcane Archer, do so. If you want to be an Eldrich Knight, do so. If you want to be a Dragon Deciple, then you should have been a sorcerer. This could work better- Wizard/Rogue build: 1st level- Wizard. Make sure to have maxed out concentration. Choose mostly protective spells, dont take magic related feats at first level. Dodge is good if you qualify. 2nd and 3rd level - Rogue. Get Evasion, Sneak Attack, +3 to reflex saves, and lots of skill points. Max out Use Magic Device, spread the remaining skill points around. Dont take knowledge or decipher script with your rogue skill points. Hide and Open Lock get outdated once you have Knock and Invis. spells. Move Silently is a great skill to go along with Invis, Tumble can get you out of some tight spots. Take Diplomasy if you want to try to get a discount on magic items. From there on in- Wizard. You're only two levels behind so by level 10 you'll have access to all the spells that make your rogue skills look silly anyway. Wizard/Rogue/Fighter build: 1st level- Wizard. Make sure to have maxed out concentration. Choose mostly protective spells, dont take magic related feats at first level. Dodge, PBF, Combat Expertice good choices. 2nd-3rd level - Rogue. See above. 4th-8th level - Figher. See above. 9th level - Realise you should have been a bard.
Koujow 05-01-06, 07:15 AM	Ok! THat works. But, I was just wondering a decent way to cross class in general, what would be best. The Wizard/Fighter was just an example. Sorry, guess I should have explained more.
Zucker_Artson 05-01-06, 07:28 AM	In general I'd take the first level of the class that has the most skillpoints. In the example of RedMage, the Wizard/Rogue I would take the Rogue level first. The difference is 24 skillpoints. So I'd prefer Ranger and Rogue over a Bard over a Barbarian and Druid over the rest. The exception is the Paladin or Monk because you won't be allowed to take more levels of these classes when you multiclass away from them. If you want to take a few levels of another class with these you'll have to take those first.
runestar 05-01-06, 08:31 AM	I would go fighter1/wiz5/eldritch knight4. But that's just me... ;) Your 1st lv should be in the class which gives you the most starting benefit. So I would suggest fighter as its starting max hp is higher than a wizard, so a wiz5/ftr5 would have lower average hp than a ftr5/wiz5. Other than that, nothing much to offer, really. Though you may want the able learner feat to be able to consistently max out your main skills at each lv without paying henious cross-class penalties. :)
DrMorganes 05-01-06, 09:08 AM	Does your DM enforce the multiclass (not cross class - "cross class" referrs to skills not on a given class's skill list) XP penalty? If so you'll need to take a level of Wiz, then a level of Ftr, then a level of Wiz, etc or suffer a penalty to earned XP until your levels come to within one of each others. Avoid this by selecting a race that has either Wizard or Fighter as a preferred class. For example, elves prefer Wizard (which also opens up the Arcane Archer Prestige Class for you, and Races of the Wild has some NICE racial substitution levels for elven wizards!) and dwarves prefer Fighter. Humans, of course, count their highest class level as their preferred class, so they're always a good choice for a two-class multiclassing character. Of course, if your DM does NOT enforce the multiclass XP penalty, fagheddaboudit ;)
Elemental_Master 05-01-06, 04:13 PM	Mith Chain... Need I say more? The main problem that i always find in multi classing is armor. Each class makes it based aroud there armor. Barb havein fast movement in medium armor, monk losing almost everything in any armor and fighter fealing naked outside of anything but full plate. That's why if u wanna cross with a mage make sure to either use mith chain or a monk :)
Wonton2006 05-01-06, 04:21 PM	Does your DM enforce the XP penalty? If so, be human. Simple.
CONMAN2469 05-01-06, 05:36 PM	Any Elf, 2/Rogue 2/Fighter, then Wizard until you can get a prestiege or just Wizard. Practiced Spellcaster fills out the 4 Ro/Fi, and as long as your non-preferred classes are within one of each other, you'll be OK!
Keenath 05-01-06, 05:38 PM	For a Ftr5/Wiz5 by 10th level, here are some considerations. If you aren't human, elf, dwarf, or half-elf, you're looking at a multiclassing issue. So, if your favored class isn't Fighter, Wizard, or Any, you'll need to do 1-and-1, no question, to avoid XP penalties. So, which comes first? Your first consideration is skill points. Almost everything ends up being retroactive except skills. So make sure you take full advantage of that x4. That's not an issue here, as Fighter and Wiz both end up as 2+Int. Class skill lists, though, are going to be an issue. As such, I'd start with Wizard just so you can get your Spellcraft and Concentration to decent levels at the outset. This is my suggestion, then: If you have a multiclassing issue, just go for Wiz/Ftr/Wiz/Ftr until you meet the prereqs for Eldritch Knight (or Spellsword). If you're free to multiclass without XP penalties, I suggest Wiz first, with concentration on defensive spells that you can use while fighting in melee. Your attack bonus is only 1 point lower than a level 1 fighter, though your HP is much worse, so feel free to use a crossbow or similar weapon and ignore damage dealing 1st level spells. Second level should be fighter, and your first bonus feat. Your HP should be decent by this point, though still somewhat low compared to a 2nd level fighter. At that point, I'd go ahead and take two more fighter levels. Leave FTR 4 alone until you have and equal number of wiz levels, though; there's no real benefit to taking FTR 4 until you really need the BAB. Once you're a ftr 3/wiz 5, you have your third level spells, so go ahead and take two more fighter levels, and you're where you want to be. I'd suggest getting into Eldritch Knight as soon as you can, though, unless you're desperate for more fighter feats. Go wiz1, ftr1, wiz2-5, and you can make EK by seventh level.