Post/Author/DateTime	Post
edventure 03-27-08, 01:19 PM	I have a combat bard that specializes in tripping with the spiked chain. Barring taking any of the ToB classes that grant maneuvers and stances what's the best way to get the Thicket of Blades stance?
InkBlot 03-27-08, 02:32 PM	"Best" can mean a lot of things. Are you ruling out prestige classes too, when you say classes? Thicket Of Blades a 3rd level Devoted Spirit stance. You must have an initiator level of 5 to learn it (character level 10 if you don't have any initiator levels). It also requires knowledge of one other Devoted Spirit stance or maneuver. Without taking any levels in a class or prestige class which grants stances, the only way to get Thicket Of Blades is to take the Martial Stance feat. Martial Stance itself requires knowledge of one martial maneuver, so you'll want to take Martial Study to get a Devoted Spirit maneuver first.
Mr_Teapot 03-27-08, 03:33 PM	Without taking any levels in a class or prestige class which grants stances, the only way to get Thicket Of Blades is to take the Martial Stance feat. Martial Stance itself requires knowledge of one martial maneuver, so you'll want to take Martial Study to get a Devoted Spirit maneuver first. You could also buy items of Devoted Spirit (they're in the back of the ToB). If you have gold to spare, that would work. Some GMs might not allow you to make custom items granting a maneuver/stance, though, so you might only be able to acquire the maneuver or stance that way. But you could take a feat to learn a DS maneuver and buy an item that grants Thicket of Blades.
aelryinth 03-27-08, 03:49 PM	There's nothing in purchasing an Item that grants Thicket that says you must have the pre-reqs, anymore then a sword that grants Cleave says you must first have Power Attack. Gold is the cheapest way to the stance. Note that it's really, really cheesy to have access to the ToB forms and not the classes, AND not have full Initiator levels, to boot! Unless your DM thinks it's overpowered. So, you've got... 5 levels of any ToB class, using Martial Stance and making sure you have a Devoted Spirit manuver. Buy a minor Devoted Spirit Item with the Stance in it. Take Ten levels of Fighter, martial study (Devoted Manuver, probably foehammer) and Martial trance. Them's the ways you have. You can combo ToB class levels with other classes, but those are just variations on the above. ===Aelryinth
Mr_Teapot 03-27-08, 04:47 PM	There's nothing in purchasing an Item that grants Thicket that says you must have the pre-reqs, anymore then a sword that grants Cleave says you must first have Power Attack. Except for the text that says you have to meet your maneuver's prereqs, that is. Eight variants of the Crown of White Ravens exist, one for each of the other martial disciplines. ... In all respects they function in the same manner as the Crown of White Ravens does, except each grants access to a maneuver from a different discipline and occupies a different place on the wearer's body. So we flip back a page to see how the Crown of White Ravens work, and find that it notes twice that you must meet the maneuver's prereqs: Anyone can wear a Crown of White Ravens but to gain any benefit from it the wearer must meet the prerequisite of the desired maneuver. After wearing it continually for 24 hours, The wearer must choose one of the White Raven maneuvers that the item can grant for which he meets the prerequisite. So to use the maneuvers in your amulet of Devoted Spirit, you need to wear it for 24 hours and meet the maneuver's prereqs (Initiator level and number of maneuvers known). The biggest problem here is that the text only speaks of "maneuvers" and never stances. Now, sometimes in ToB it seems like maneuvers includes stances and sometimes it seems like it excludes them. Elsewhere in the magic item section, under Martial Discipline weapons, the example assumes that stances are included when it talks about maneuvers. But it is sort of ambiguous. I could see GMs not allow stances from Amulet of Devoted Spirit, in which case you'd have to try to qualify for Martial Stance feat via an item or actually spend two feats or one level..
aelryinth 03-27-08, 11:22 PM	I happily stand corrected (this is an unusual exception for magic items, btw! (applauds politely)). And you are right...it is extremely ambiguous whether you could take a stance with such an item, as sometimes manuvers are included (for instance, pre-reqs) and sometimes they are not (martial study). MM. DM call, I'm thinking. ===Aelryinth