Best Wild Shape [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Wild Shape [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Will Brandiman
03-05-04, 06:28 AM I've just reached 5th level as a druid (3.0) and I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for the best form to take using wild shape. I'm specifically looking for combat ability.

Thanks!
Inkubus
03-05-04, 07:03 AM 3.0: Apes are decent (str 21, 3 attacks).
Lions have str 21, dex 15, improved grab, pounce and rake.
At level 6 I'd prefer brown bears instead of apes and tigers instead of lions.
3.5 only: the Dire Hawk is pretty good with dex 22 and fly 80 (average).
The Dire Ape is only 5 HD and way better than the normal ape. He's even better than the brown bear...
The Dire Wolverine isn't bad either.
Take your pick,
Inkubus
Will Brandiman
03-05-04, 07:44 AM Apes and Lions are out cos they're large. Looks like a black bear or a wolverine might be my best bet.
Zelachant
03-05-04, 08:24 AM Yes, at lvl 5 your best combat shapes are the black bear and the crocodile, depending on the environment. Take a look at Yekoj's Druid Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81385&highlight=druid) , it has everything you'll need to know.
Kirsniv
03-05-04, 10:41 AM well... being a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game i suggest u would take a form that suites ur character... try to immagine ur character, if ur character could be an animal what would it be?
Will Brandiman
03-05-04, 10:54 AM Originally posted by Kirsniv
well... being a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game i suggest u would take a form that suites ur character... try to immagine ur character, if ur character could be an animal what would it be? Thanks for that. Very helpful. :mad:
Disturbed1
03-05-04, 10:55 AM yea, at the very beginning of gettin wild shapw, your choices arent really all that great.

and btw

that druid handbook, dos not have everything you need to know. leaves alot out if you ask me.

just my opnion though, and no offense to the guy who made it.

dis1
Kirsniv
03-05-04, 11:12 AM well... belive... its the best i could give...

but really.... try to analyze your character and see which animal is similar.... its more fun... and it doesnt matter if u suck in combat.... as long as u have fun...

if u want some help with that give me: race & general aptitude of your character and i'll see if i can help.
Will Brandiman
03-05-04, 11:25 AM Thanks but I don't need help with the role-playing aspects. I do all my role-playing in human(oid) form, on account of not being able to speak in animal form, so it's not relevant to my choice of animal forms.

When I wildshape it's often because I need to be able to do something specific, such as run fast, fly, swim, scent etc. I can choose appropriate forms for that without any help. When I want to wildshape for combat purposes however it's nice to be the most effective animal possible. That's why I specifically asked about animals for combat purposes*.

*Note - that's purposes, not porpoises in case anyone from the "Dolphins in battle armour" thread is reading this.
BW0222
03-05-04, 06:36 PM >I've just reached 5th level as a druid (3.0) and I'm wondering if
>anyone has any suggestions for the best form to take using
>wild shape. I'm specifically looking for combat ability.

Wolverine or the black bear are the strongest -- best likely damage potential. However, in 3.0, your hp remain the same, so the black bear's Con really isn't that useful. Wolverine has a dig rate which can be useful if you really need 5-hours of good rest.

Leopard is the other possibility. Pouch and rake can be effective on the first round. Against small targets the improved grab allows quick mauling. They also have a faster movement rate and climb rate. Often easier to break off combat with a leopard, sneak, hide, etc.

Medium shark is best for underwater. Porpoise has that nice blindsight and might be a better bet if surfacing isn't an issue since many underwater critters can do serious harm to most medium-sized animals.

Flying is the eagle, but most flying creatures can make short work of you. Still, 80' flying speed does give you the fleeing option.

Personally, until you reach 8th (large animals), plan of wildshape as either a non-combat role, or as a last ditch move during combat -- heal quickly, then block or finish off opponents. Animal ACs are typically low for 5th-level opponents.

Thanks,

Brett
Zelachant
03-05-04, 08:48 PM that druid handbook, dos not have everything you need to know. leaves alot out if you ask me. What exactly did it leave out?
obrysii
03-05-04, 10:14 PM Try and see if your DM will let you wild shape into a Legendary Ape. There are no HD limits, and since they are a Medium-size Animal, it's completely "legal" to play one.
Solidcobra
03-06-04, 05:14 AM if your DM is stoned, drunk and getting a blowjob from his girlfriend when you ask him maybe..... but no sane DM that isn't in complete pain/pleasure would accept that....
Kage Wellby
03-06-04, 09:31 AM Originally posted by Kirsniv
well... being a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game i suggest u would take a form that suites ur character... try to immagine ur character, if ur character could be an animal what would it be?

In a combat situation? The strongest form possible. Stop with the "role playing vs roll playing" statements. One is entirely within the bounds of reason to assume a strong form in a combat situation, of which many encounters are made up. Role playing a strong, combative character doesn't make one less of a role player than some one else who prefers a bard with a 40 Charisma and maxed out ranks in Diplomacy and Imtimidate. Different strokes for different folks.

Also, not flaming you, but "ur" American could use a bit of touching up.
Kage Wellby
03-06-04, 09:33 AM Originally posted by obrysii
Try and see if your DM will let you wild shape into a Legendary Ape. There are no HD limits, and since they are a Medium-size Animal, it's completely "legal" to play one.
Yes there are. The form chosen still cannot have more HD that the druid does. It's still based on Polymorph, which still has that limitation.
Inkubus
03-06-04, 09:39 AM Legendary animals weren't allowed as 3.0 wildshape options. So they're out anyway.
obrysii
03-06-04, 10:29 AM Originally posted by Inkubus
Legendary animals weren't allowed as 3.0 wildshape options. So they're out anyway.

Why? Where does it say "A druid cannot wildshape into a Legendary Animal" ?

Also, where in the 3.0 Player's Handbook does it say there are HD restrictions on Polymorph? Honestly, I read Polymorph Other, and it says nothing. Polymorph Self says "as Polymorph Other" and thus has no HD restrictions.
Inkubus
03-06-04, 11:49 AM Originally posted by obrysii
Why? Where does it say "A druid cannot wildshape into a Legendary Animal" ?

Masters of the Wild p.11: "At 5th level a druid gains the spell-like ability to turn herself into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal or a legendary animal) and back again once per day."
Since the MotW wildshape rules superseded the 3.0 PhB ones and legendary animals were introduced in MotW that seems pretty clear to me, doesn't it?
obrysii
03-06-04, 01:03 PM Originally posted by Inkubus
Masters of the Wild p.11: "At 5th level a druid gains the spell-like ability to turn herself into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal or a legendary animal) and back again once per day."
Since the MotW wildshape rules superseded the 3.0 PhB ones and legendary animals were introduced in MotW that seems pretty clear to me, doesn't it?

Well, for those who do not have MotW the rule does not exist. Legendary animals are also in the MM2. For those who have MM2, MM1, and 3.0 PhB, but not MotW, nor any knowledge of the rules in thereof, then one could logically be able to turn into a Legendary animal.
Inkubus
03-06-04, 01:41 PM Well, now you know that said rule exists. I'm also quite sure it was mentioned somewhere in the 3.0 FAQ. But of course if you still want to ignore it and allow wildshaping into legendary animals anyway...
I wouldn't allow it (it'd be way to powerful, even more powerful than dire animal wildshape which you don't get until level 12) and nobody I know or play with would either, but hey it's your campaign so you just do or ignore whatever you like.
Cheers,
Inkubus
Will Brandiman
03-08-04, 06:01 AM Well, just so as you know, I got to wild shape for the first time at the weekend session. We were fighting 2HD skeletons but my spear was proving ineffective so I decided to change into a black bear. I then spent the next 5 rounds completely failing to hit anything despite making full attacks (didn't roll above a 4 in 15 rolls on 1d20!). Whilst slightly discouraged in combat terms I then made full use of wild shape in the next couple of days when I assumed the form of a condor and took to the air for scouting duties, managing to spot the BBEG waiting in ambush for us.

Can't wait to take large forms though. That Brown Bear looks nice!
FunkyTrip
03-08-04, 07:20 AM If you want to test the various available forms, use summon nature ally. Summon a few bears and stuff to see how they fare.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Will Brandiman 03-05-04, 06:28 AM	I've just reached 5th level as a druid (3.0) and I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for the best form to take using wild shape. I'm specifically looking for combat ability. Thanks!
Inkubus 03-05-04, 07:03 AM	3.0: Apes are decent (str 21, 3 attacks). Lions have str 21, dex 15, improved grab, pounce and rake. At level 6 I'd prefer brown bears instead of apes and tigers instead of lions. 3.5 only: the Dire Hawk is pretty good with dex 22 and fly 80 (average). The Dire Ape is only 5 HD and way better than the normal ape. He's even better than the brown bear... The Dire Wolverine isn't bad either. Take your pick, Inkubus
Will Brandiman 03-05-04, 07:44 AM	Apes and Lions are out cos they're large. Looks like a black bear or a wolverine might be my best bet.
Zelachant 03-05-04, 08:24 AM	Yes, at lvl 5 your best combat shapes are the black bear and the crocodile, depending on the environment. Take a look at Yekoj's Druid Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81385&highlight=druid) , it has everything you'll need to know.
Kirsniv 03-05-04, 10:41 AM	well... being a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game i suggest u would take a form that suites ur character... try to immagine ur character, if ur character could be an animal what would it be?
Will Brandiman 03-05-04, 10:54 AM	Originally posted by Kirsniv well... being a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game i suggest u would take a form that suites ur character... try to immagine ur character, if ur character could be an animal what would it be? Thanks for that. Very helpful. :mad:
Disturbed1 03-05-04, 10:55 AM	yea, at the very beginning of gettin wild shapw, your choices arent really all that great. and btw that druid handbook, dos not have everything you need to know. leaves alot out if you ask me. just my opnion though, and no offense to the guy who made it. dis1
Kirsniv 03-05-04, 11:12 AM	well... belive... its the best i could give... but really.... try to analyze your character and see which animal is similar.... its more fun... and it doesnt matter if u suck in combat.... as long as u have fun... if u want some help with that give me: race & general aptitude of your character and i'll see if i can help.
Will Brandiman 03-05-04, 11:25 AM	Thanks but I don't need help with the role-playing aspects. I do all my role-playing in human(oid) form, on account of not being able to speak in animal form, so it's not relevant to my choice of animal forms. When I wildshape it's often because I need to be able to do something specific, such as run fast, fly, swim, scent etc. I can choose appropriate forms for that without any help. When I want to wildshape for combat purposes however it's nice to be the most effective animal possible. That's why I specifically asked about animals for combat purposes. Note - that's purposes, not porpoises in case anyone from the "Dolphins in battle armour" thread is reading this.
BW0222 03-05-04, 06:36 PM	>I've just reached 5th level as a druid (3.0) and I'm wondering if >anyone has any suggestions for the best form to take using >wild shape. I'm specifically looking for combat ability. Wolverine or the black bear are the strongest -- best likely damage potential. However, in 3.0, your hp remain the same, so the black bear's Con really isn't that useful. Wolverine has a dig rate which can be useful if you really need 5-hours of good rest. Leopard is the other possibility. Pouch and rake can be effective on the first round. Against small targets the improved grab allows quick mauling. They also have a faster movement rate and climb rate. Often easier to break off combat with a leopard, sneak, hide, etc. Medium shark is best for underwater. Porpoise has that nice blindsight and might be a better bet if surfacing isn't an issue since many underwater critters can do serious harm to most medium-sized animals. Flying is the eagle, but most flying creatures can make short work of you. Still, 80' flying speed does give you the fleeing option. Personally, until you reach 8th (large animals), plan of wildshape as either a non-combat role, or as a last ditch move during combat -- heal quickly, then block or finish off opponents. Animal ACs are typically low for 5th-level opponents. Thanks, Brett
Zelachant 03-05-04, 08:48 PM	that druid handbook, dos not have everything you need to know. leaves alot out if you ask me. What exactly did it leave out?
obrysii 03-05-04, 10:14 PM	Try and see if your DM will let you wild shape into a Legendary Ape. There are no HD limits, and since they are a Medium-size Animal, it's completely "legal" to play one.
Solidcobra 03-06-04, 05:14 AM	if your DM is stoned, drunk and getting a blowjob from his girlfriend when you ask him maybe..... but no sane DM that isn't in complete pain/pleasure would accept that....
Kage Wellby 03-06-04, 09:31 AM	Originally posted by Kirsniv well... being a roleplaying game and not a rollplaying game i suggest u would take a form that suites ur character... try to immagine ur character, if ur character could be an animal what would it be? In a combat situation? The strongest form possible. Stop with the "role playing vs roll playing" statements. One is entirely within the bounds of reason to assume a strong form in a combat situation, of which many encounters are made up. Role playing a strong, combative character doesn't make one less of a role player than some one else who prefers a bard with a 40 Charisma and maxed out ranks in Diplomacy and Imtimidate. Different strokes for different folks. Also, not flaming you, but "ur" American could use a bit of touching up.
Kage Wellby 03-06-04, 09:33 AM	Originally posted by obrysii Try and see if your DM will let you wild shape into a Legendary Ape. There are no HD limits, and since they are a Medium-size Animal, it's completely "legal" to play one. Yes there are. The form chosen still cannot have more HD that the druid does. It's still based on Polymorph, which still has that limitation.
Inkubus 03-06-04, 09:39 AM	Legendary animals weren't allowed as 3.0 wildshape options. So they're out anyway.
obrysii 03-06-04, 10:29 AM	Originally posted by Inkubus Legendary animals weren't allowed as 3.0 wildshape options. So they're out anyway. Why? Where does it say "A druid cannot wildshape into a Legendary Animal" ? Also, where in the 3.0 Player's Handbook does it say there are HD restrictions on Polymorph? Honestly, I read Polymorph Other, and it says nothing. Polymorph Self says "as Polymorph Other" and thus has no HD restrictions.
Inkubus 03-06-04, 11:49 AM	Originally posted by obrysii Why? Where does it say "A druid cannot wildshape into a Legendary Animal" ? Masters of the Wild p.11: "At 5th level a druid gains the spell-like ability to turn herself into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal or a legendary animal) and back again once per day." Since the MotW wildshape rules superseded the 3.0 PhB ones and legendary animals were introduced in MotW that seems pretty clear to me, doesn't it?
obrysii 03-06-04, 01:03 PM	Originally posted by Inkubus Masters of the Wild p.11: "At 5th level a druid gains the spell-like ability to turn herself into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal or a legendary animal) and back again once per day." Since the MotW wildshape rules superseded the 3.0 PhB ones and legendary animals were introduced in MotW that seems pretty clear to me, doesn't it? Well, for those who do not have MotW the rule does not exist. Legendary animals are also in the MM2. For those who have MM2, MM1, and 3.0 PhB, but not MotW, nor any knowledge of the rules in thereof, then one could logically be able to turn into a Legendary animal.
Inkubus 03-06-04, 01:41 PM	Well, now you know that said rule exists. I'm also quite sure it was mentioned somewhere in the 3.0 FAQ. But of course if you still want to ignore it and allow wildshaping into legendary animals anyway... I wouldn't allow it (it'd be way to powerful, even more powerful than dire animal wildshape which you don't get until level 12) and nobody I know or play with would either, but hey it's your campaign so you just do or ignore whatever you like. Cheers, Inkubus
Will Brandiman 03-08-04, 06:01 AM	Well, just so as you know, I got to wild shape for the first time at the weekend session. We were fighting 2HD skeletons but my spear was proving ineffective so I decided to change into a black bear. I then spent the next 5 rounds completely failing to hit anything despite making full attacks (didn't roll above a 4 in 15 rolls on 1d20!). Whilst slightly discouraged in combat terms I then made full use of wild shape in the next couple of days when I assumed the form of a condor and took to the air for scouting duties, managing to spot the BBEG waiting in ambush for us. Can't wait to take large forms though. That Brown Bear looks nice!
FunkyTrip 03-08-04, 07:20 AM	If you want to test the various available forms, use summon nature ally. Summon a few bears and stuff to see how they fare.