| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| TrackStar07-05-05, 02:49 AM | Best race for a wizard that isn't in the PHB? (With no higher than a CR2.) |
| babysamurai07-05-05, 05:11 AM | Best race for a wizard that isn't in the PHB? (With no higher than a CR2.) Grey Elf and Drow Elf (they both get +2 to Int), if you don't want to start taking the more freaky race options. I'm at work so I can't really get into it, but I'm sure some of the lovely people on these Forums will come up with about a million choices. |
| BlaineTog07-05-05, 05:18 AM | Grey Elf. |
| Genghis Cohen07-05-05, 05:24 AM | Gray Elf |
| CaoSlayer07-05-05, 05:27 AM | gnome if you are focusing on illusions. Tieflings also are interesting characters since the bonus to int and dex, no negative physical stat and the outsider subtype. |
| Solamar07-05-05, 05:39 AM | Sharakim (think I spelled that right) from Races of Destiny +2 str and Int -2 dex and cha +1 natural armour L.A: +1 |
| katarl07-05-05, 06:04 AM | Wizards usually rely soley on good DEX (ranged touch attacks and AC) and intelligence (higher DCs, more spells). The best race for wizards is probably the grey elf, who get +2 Int, Dex, elven traits for -2 Str and Con (which you don't need), all without an annoying level adjustment. Its the best you can get, really, without making a new race. |
| CaoSlayer07-05-05, 06:41 AM | but the con penalty hurts a lot of, having an adverage hp of 1d4 -1 it is really hurtful for most wizards con can be as important than dex, dex it is important for not getting damage, getting iniciative and touch spells, but con means +1 hp level, a gnome wizard have +2 hp per level vs a gray elf and they are equal casting illusion spells. |
| Bopple07-05-05, 07:06 AM | Gray Elf with racial substitution level. Period. Gnome for illusionist. |
| CaoSlayer07-05-05, 07:08 AM | Gray Elf with racial substitution level. Period. Gnome for illusionist. what does the subt level? |
| Norhg07-05-05, 08:12 AM | 3 new spells learnt/level. One extra spell of your highest avaible spell level. |
| CaoSlayer07-05-05, 08:15 AM | 3 new spells learnt/level. One extra spell of your highest avaible spell level. those spells are added to the regular ones gained? are included sorcerers in the bonus? (seems too powerful) the third one also it is great, a bit too powerful. |
| Particle07-05-05, 09:39 AM | Wizards only. Not additional. So its 2 regular spells learnt, plus 1 additonal spell from suubstituion level. |
| Spellhunter07-05-05, 02:49 PM | Where are the stats for the gray elf? Also your forgetting the sun elf from FR Races of Faerun +2 int -2 con No LA |
| Siouxsie Sioux is a god07-05-05, 02:59 PM | the stats for the gray elf are in the monster manual, but i totaly think gray elf is the way to go. the only bad part about them is there -2 con, but that's dealable (i don't think that's even a word....) |
| Norhg07-05-05, 02:59 PM | Where are the stats for the gray elf? Also your forgetting the sun elf from FR Races of Faerun +2 int -2 con No LA M.M 3.5. It is superiour to Sun Elf. |
| Pax07-05-05, 03:02 PM | Warforged from Eberron - now your Wizard can heal himself! Gravetouched Ghoul (+2 LA) or Necropolitan (+0 LA but lose a level and 1K experience to become one), from Libris Mortis. Undead are mucho fun ...! Plus you can whack yourself with an Enervation for some emergency "healing", if needed! Illumian, from Races of Destiny, if you plan to multiclass, ever, into any other base class. |
| BlaineTog07-05-05, 03:20 PM | but the con penalty hurts a lot of, having an adverage hp of 1d4 -1 it is really hurtfulExcept the wizard is going to put at least a 14 into his Con, and probably higher. The gray elf has fewer hit points than a human, but not really all that fewer. for most wizards con can be as important than dex, dex it is important for not getting damage, getting iniciative and touch spells, but con means +1 hp level, a gnome wizard have +2 hp per level vs a gray elf and they are equal casting illusion spells.Yeah, but inferior at casting everything else. And they have fewer spell slots. And not that it matters, but also fewer skill points. The bonus to AC that the wizard gets from Dex is insignificant. Unless he works on boosting his AC, it is never going to make the diference between getting hit or not. The attack, intitiative, and reflex save bonuses, however, and quite good. |
| Kurama Youko07-05-05, 05:49 PM | Humans - Bonus Feat for whatever meta magic or wizard related feat you wanna take. Extra Skill point per lv. Helps that egg head wizard be even more of a smartarse. Red Wizards of Thay, say no more! Gray Elf - Rockin +2 inr, not so rockin -2 con, Rockin +2 dex, not so rockin -2 Str (though not as important for a wizard, unless the party pack mule decides not to carry his part of the treasure or stuff.) Dwarf - +2 Con "Who you callin frail?", -2 Cha "I aint no Sorcerer!" +2 vs spells-spell-like abilities. "I live longer than humans!" Darkvision, "I can save a spell!" Tiefling - +2 Int "I am smarty hah!" +2 Dex "Swing and a miss!" -2 Cha "What the Dwarf said." Outsider Type, "Just wait till I get Polymorph!" LA +1, "Bah, Good things come to those who wait." |
| Spellhunter07-06-05, 01:32 AM | Tiefling - +2 Int "I am smarty hah!" +2 Dex "Swing and a miss!" -2 Cha "What the Dwarf said." Outsider Type, "Just wait till I get Polymorph!" LA +1, "Bah, Good things come to those who wait." HAHAHA.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: |
| TheAngryRogue07-06-05, 01:37 AM | Tiefling all the way. Outsider is too good to pass up, plus no con penalty. |
| allenchan07-06-05, 01:38 AM | There's a race in Shining South that is a +0 LA, tiny size, magical beast, +2 int, continous true seeing... broken. edit: For outsider I'd just take the FR feat Otherworldly, if you want all the outsider goodies. |
| BlaineTog07-06-05, 01:41 AM | Tiefling all the way. Outsider is too good to pass up, plus no con penalty.But a LA. LA is caster death, and it only gets worse the higher you get. |
| TrackStar07-06-05, 02:20 AM | I am asking this because my friend(new to DnD but very smart) is trying to make a wizard and I want to get her a good race. I was tinkering with makeing the StoneChild (races of stone) a +2LA race with a few adjustments. Can you guys check out this link to that thread and give me some input? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6621526#post6621526 |
| Rathje07-06-05, 02:40 AM | I'd take anything for Wizard except for Elf. "Special" types of Elves (like Drow and those things) might be okay, but I haven't really looked into them. Straight Elves are really my cup of tea. Especially for a Wizard with a d4 hit die. I don't like penalties to Constitution. When in doubt, go with Human. Or a race that you think fits whatever background you have in your head. |
| Venom of the Yuan Ti07-06-05, 02:50 AM | I am asking this because my friend(new to DnD but very smart) is trying to make a wizard and I want to get her a good race. I was tinkering with makeing the StoneChild (races of stone) a +2LA race with a few adjustments. Can you guys check out this link to that thread and give me some input? http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6621526#post6621526 It has been noted by several clever people, LA is cater death. I would only consider typhling as a LA wizard race. But for my own opinon: GREY ELF BABY! An elf taht fits the elven steriotype, there is a first... |
| Polaris07-06-05, 03:48 AM | I will join the chorus: Grey-Elf is HANDS down the best Wizard race in the game. The -2 Str is almost meaningless to a wizard and he gets the +2 Int and +2 Dex for -2 Con AND all the normal Elven goodies. He doesn't even pay an LA for it. If the DM is dumb enough to let you take it, this is the race for you as a wizard. -Polaris |
| Kurama Youko07-06-05, 05:46 AM | Why does the DM have to be dumb to let you be a gray elf? Do I need a dumb DM for my Wood Elf Barbarian!? cause that +2 Str and Dex, with only a -2 Int and -2 con is pretty kick arse. |
| Polaris07-06-05, 05:50 AM | Why does the DM have to be dumb to let you be a gray elf? Do I need a dumb DM for my Wood Elf Barbarian!? cause that +2 Str and Dex, with only a -2 Int and -2 con is pretty kick arse. The DM would be insane to late you play a Grey-Elf as a wizard because the Grey-Elf is better than ANY standard PC race as a wizard with virtually no drawback (the drawbacks are no worse than an Elf Wizard and the upside is so much greater....yes because of the effectively unbalanced +2 Int). As for the Wood-Elf, +2 Str/Dex to -2 Con/Int is actually pretty close to balanced. The DMG grossly overvalues strength. In any case the Wood-Elf is NOT hands down the best barbarian race in the game (in fact I'd say that no race is...although Dwarves come very close). -Polaris |
| runestar07-06-05, 07:06 AM | Lesser planetouched air genasi or tiefling...nuff said. If you have an extremely gullible dm, then try going for lesser planetouched fey'ri, using the +3 LA options. Dimension door as a SLA means you never need to worry about being grappled ever again. |
| Votan07-06-05, 11:25 AM | But a LA. LA is caster death, and it only gets worse the higher you get. I think that if your build is going to use the Outsider status of a Tiefling and you are in a low point buy game (say elite array) then I can see a Tiefling. You should probably be a specialist wizard in something like Transmutation to harvest as much benefity as possible. One level of LA is painful but if it results in advantages that you repeatedly milk then it could well end up being worth it. That being said, if anybody can stomach an elf wizard they should instantly switch to Grey Elf. If you want a generalist wizard and have races of the wild available then the Grey Elf is the absolute best generalist wizard even theoretically available. |
| CaoSlayer07-06-05, 12:29 PM | Tieflings also are a very interesting option if you own Races of Faerun, there is a couple of great feats, one that allows a tiefling to use wings for unlimited flying and another for a bargain bonus in the summon spells. |
| TrackStar07-06-05, 01:30 PM | What does LA do to spell casting? Why is it bad? Good? |
| Polaris07-06-05, 01:36 PM | What does LA do to spell casting? Why is it bad? Good? An LA means that you one (or more) fewer levels of wizard than you should for your supposed character level. This loss translates into being lower on the spell progression which means fewer spells can be cast and known. It also means you get your highest (and generally most potent) spells one (or more) levels later than you should. It also means that you boost your casting stat one (or more) levels later than you should. I also means your caster level is less (and there is no way to boost it with feats/class abilities since your hit-dice is also less) which means the spells you do cast are less effective than they should be and have a harder time penetrating SR than they should. As a general rule, if a race has a non-zero LA (or even racial hit-dice), a wizard (or casters in general) should treat it like clap in a brothell. -Polaris |
| CaoSlayer07-06-05, 01:39 PM | ...with little exceptions, like the ones with pluses on casting, a nice type for alter self/polymorph or SR; drows are well worth the LA, the high SR means that almost half of the spells will be totally harmless against a drow. |
| Kurama Youko07-06-05, 01:39 PM | What does LA do to spell casting? Why is it bad? Good? Thats a very good question, let me summerize it for you. It makes you into a Sorcerer in terms of spell progression. However if you can stomach Sorcerer Spell Progression then you will enjoy being a Tiefling Wizard or Gensai Wizard. Spells scribed are less of a issue for any Wizard regardless of Lv since a wizard can scribe as many spells into his spell book as the book can hold, and he has the time and resources to scribe. So yes again its basically boils down to do you mind being 1 spell lv behind the gray elf wizard on odd lvs or would you rather open the flood gates of hell or the abyss for that matter and let it all hangout! lol. |
| Polaris07-06-05, 02:04 PM | ...with little exceptions, like the ones with pluses on casting, a nice type for alter self/polymorph or SR; drows are well worth the LA, the high SR means that almost half of the spells will be totally harmless against a drow. Having played Drow wizards (ok wizard singular), I dispute this slightly. SR is very cool, but while Drow definately deserve and LA and I have no intention of changing it, Drow make pretty sad wizards....and SR while nice isn't everything and all that. The problem with Drow SR is that you are TWO LEVELS DOWN and that means your SR will start at a relative 10% penalty to casters of your encounter level....and that's before you factor in feats (like spell penetration). Before Complete Arcana, I'd still say that was pretty sweet, but now a generalist wizard can bulk up on a metric truckload of offensive spells that never check SR (I am refering to the new energy conjurations). That makes SR much less potent than it once was. -Polaris |
| BlaineTog07-06-05, 02:15 PM | Drow make better rogues anyway, and given than rogues get evasion and generally crazyhigh reflex saves (and that evocations usually suck), Complete Arcane hasn't really nerfed them. |
| BlaineTog07-06-05, 02:19 PM | Thats a very good question, let me summerize it for you. It makes you into a Sorcerer in terms of spell progression.Worse. Not only are you a PHB sorcerer in terms of spell progression, but your spells are also all worse (lower duration, lower range, less damage, etc) and you have a harder time penetrating SR. Then there's also the lower HP, skill points, and saves (not a *huge* deal for wizards, but still another way that you'de behind). |
| Kurama Youko07-06-05, 02:20 PM | One thing I'd like to point out, it really depends on whats allowed, a DM could just as easily allow feats, PrC and or races from other sources and if you just so happen to be in such a world already some of the described drawbacks of LA Wizards is either small or non exisitant. Spell Theramatics is a Feat known in Forgotten Realms that increase the caster level of one spell per spell level that you know or can prepare. (only for Arcane spells however.) Not only does your caster level improve with those particular spells, people need to make higher spellcraft checks to devise what spell your casting, because the third effect of the feat changes how the spell is visual displayed when cast. Such as your Fireball could look like a Flaming Skull as oppose to a roaring ball of fire. There are atleast 2 other feats I've seen that also improve your caster level, some of which require you to have a certain ancestory, that is if memory serves me correctly. If you lose a mage duel because your effectively one level lower than some other guy especially a gray elf then there was something wrong from the start that didnt have anything to do with your LA. I for one have played a few wizards though spontaneous spellcasting is my thing, and I have never relied on casting the highest lv spell I could to win the day, on the contrary it usually boiled down to mid lv spells that finished the task. Not taking anything form the Gray Elf, infact I mentioned in my original post, but push come to shove I think it boils down to situations and preparedness. Gray Elf Wizards arent all to swift when it comes to those Fortitude saves, especially with that -2 con. |
| Kurama Youko07-06-05, 02:28 PM | Worse. Not only are you a PHB sorcerer in terms of spell progression, but your spells are also all worse (lower duration, lower range, less damage, etc) and you have a harder time penetrating SR. Then there's also the lower HP, skill points, and saves (not a *huge* deal for wizards, but still another way that you'de behind). Trust me, I've seen it to many times already! a LA +1 wizard isnt any worse off than one who isnt. There is no spell that kills with a 1 lv difference. Example: the average HP for a Wizard with 20 lvs 42 before con bonuses. the average HP for a Wizard with 19 lvs 40 before con bonuses. Power Word Kill who play either wizard. Fireball cast by the above examples both deal the average damage, both would be near if they failed a ref save from one. All Im saying is dont try to sale what can't be sold as a one way deal. You have the LA for a reason true and in most cases its a good one and if the optimizing boards that use LA spellcasters havent shown you this enough already then I think someone isnt doing their job right. I've governed Duels between casters before, sometimes one casting having up to a LA+4 and yet someone depending on who did what even the LA+4 caster could win. Also I nearly Forgot. Black Ethergaunt greatest Wizard of all. |
| danielinthewolvesden07-06-05, 02:29 PM | The DM would be insane to late you play a Grey-Elf as a wizard because the Grey-Elf is better than ANY standard PC race as a wizard with virtually no drawback -Polaris So? The race is very good for a Wizard- what's wrong with that? Or- would the DM be insane to let one play a half-orc BBn or a dwaven Figher, or.... :rolleyes: |
| the artful dodger07-06-05, 02:54 PM | Worse. Not only are you a PHB sorcerer in terms of spell progression, but your spells are also all worse (lower duration, lower range, less damage, etc) and you have a harder time penetrating SR. Then there's also the lower HP, skill points, and saves (not a *huge* deal for wizards, but still another way that you'de behind). Let's at least assume that the abilities that cost you the LA might help out with those, shall we? ;) I mean, if for instance there's a Con bonus included in those, you'll have more hp and arguably equally good saves (your Fort will be better, and that's what matters for a wizard). Long story short, LA will (almost) always mean delayed spell acquisition. It'll probably have other consequences as well, but what those are depends on why you're getting the LA in the first place. |
| Kurama Youko07-06-05, 03:01 PM | Let's at least assume that the abilities that cost you the LA might help out with those, shall we? ;) I mean, if for instance there's a Con bonus included in those, you'll have more hp and arguably equally good saves (your Fort will be better, and that's what matters for a wizard). Long story short, LA will (almost) always mean delayed spell acquisition. It'll probably have other consequences as well, but what those are depends on why you're getting the LA in the first place. Oh my GAWD you totally hit the nail on the head :D Thats exactly what I mean. People dont take LA for fighters or spellcasters unless they feel the benefit is definitely worth it. I played along side a Fey'ri Sorcerer/Spell Fire Wielder and not Once did he complain to the party about his like of spells known or per day. I was a Fey'ri cleric at the time and the party still had much respect for his ability and he more than once did his thing and we all got a kick out of everyones contributed abilities. |
| TrackStar07-06-05, 03:08 PM | Could you guys check out this thread on a varient of the stonechild I made and leave me some input on that thread? It would be awesome since you all know what your talking about! http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6621526 THANK YOU~! Depending on how you guys feel about that write up will help me decide between that and the Gray Elf and the tiefling! :) |
| BlaineTog07-06-05, 03:20 PM | Trust me, I've seen it to many times already! a LA +1 wizard isnt any worse off than one who isnt. There is no spell that kills with a 1 lv difference. Example: the average HP for a Wizard with 20 lvs 42 before con bonuses. the average HP for a Wizard with 19 lvs 40 before con bonuses. Power Word Kill who play either wizard.And all campaigns start at level 20? :bored: Here's one of the problems with a LA+1 race wizard: you have to play through 8 levels over the course of your 1-20 career wherein you have inferior spell level access. If it's LA+2, you spend 18 levels with inferior spell level access, only catching up at level 19. You have the LA for a reason true and in most cases its a good one and if the optimizing boards that use LA spellcasters havent shown you this enough already then I think someone isnt doing their job right.Link me to a Character Optimization thread that's built a wizard with a balanced LA race. In fact, link me to several, since you used the plural. I've governed Duels between casters before, sometimes one casting having up to a LA+4 and yet someone depending on who did what even the LA+4 caster could win.:rofl: If a primary caster with LA+4 wins against an equal ECL caster without a level adjustment regularly, then that caster without a LA must have been a retard, or rolled all 1s. LA+4 means you don't get 9th level spells until epic. Black Ethergaunt greatest Wizard of all.Never heard of it. Is that from core rules? |
| Elgonn07-06-05, 03:26 PM | Never heard of it. Is that from core rules? Fiend Folio. +20 Racial Int Very very good wizard. But ECL 20. 16 Aberation HD, 4 LA, 17 levels of wizard casting. |
| BlaineTog07-06-05, 05:00 PM | Fiend Folio. +20 Racial Int Very very good wizard. But ECL 20. 16 Aberation HD, 4 LA, 17 levels of wizard casting. :uh-huh: :mymy: :bigeyes: :shocked: :looloo: :crazy: :gah: I haven't done a smiley-bomb in a while, but this seems to deserve it. |
| Polaris07-06-05, 05:05 PM | Fiend Folio. +20 Racial Int Very very good wizard. But ECL 20. 16 Aberation HD, 4 LA, 17 levels of wizard casting. Indeed.....for an EPIC campaign. Given the ECL, you'd have to start at level 21 (EPIC) in which case you lose most of the drawbacks of the LA. [You will still be down caster level and because of the lower hit-dice, that will not be easy to make up....the standard approaches won't work.] This just proves what we all knew: The rules (and balance considerations) change markedly at epic. -Polaris |
| Elgonn07-06-05, 05:09 PM | Given the ECL, you'd have to start at level 21 (EPIC) in which case you lose most of the drawbacks of the LA. There isn't anything stopping you from playing a Black Ethergaunt without class levels at ECL 20. Also going into epic doesn't rid yourself of the LA problems. |
| Kurama Youko07-06-05, 05:18 PM | Okay.. lets answer all the question right here and now. At what point is the 2nd level Gray Elf Wizard Killing the 1st Tiefling Wizard? Because Im not seeing it. Cause im not seeing it. HP Wise? I think not. GE Wizard 2nd Avg HP 6 + -2 Con = 4 Tif Wizard 1st Avg HP 4 same. Initaitive: I think not. Both have the same racial bonus to Int and Dex. DC for spells? Like I just said.. no. Could either one drop the other with a single spell yes! Though im betting if the Elf used a fire spell it aint gonna be as effective as when the Tif using the same one right back at him. another question. Are you two joined at the hip or is the more likely question, the same person? Not that it really matters to me I find your you both amusing to no end. Show me where your Gray Elf transcends some likely hood and defeats a his one level less opponent? I'll then show the the same situation in reverse probably using a lower level spell to accomplish the same result. The point still stands just like anyone else who has pointed out a Tiefling as a Good Wizard Race, They are infact a GOOD WIZARD RACE! Oh my gosh! thats amazing there are actually more than 1 good race for playing a wizard. Yes and the one with the LA adjustment seems to have abilities from his race that make him a very good canadidte to. no and every campaign doesnt start at epic lv but if you could see past your own snide remarks you'd realize the only way you could compare a class or combination to another is at a point beyond first and at best when most campaigns come to an end. I dont know how epic got tossed in the mix considering no one suggestion had a ECL 21 or higher seeing as that is the EPIC benchmark. Do you guys even think about what you saying when you say it? I know I do, I also take into consideration what the likely responses would be. Again, 1 lv difference does not mean its the end of the world. |
| Polaris07-06-05, 05:26 PM | Kurama, At first level, the difference doesn't seem to great. However, at 17th level, the Grey-Elf will have 9th level spells and the Tiefling won't. That's setting aside the other disadvantages (like a lower caster level you can not make up). -Polaris Edit: Anytime you give up a caster level (including spell progression), you don't have a good wizard race....with possible exceptions at EPIC. Edit 2: You forgot that the G-Elf has one more first level spell and those spells work about twice as well. |
| Polaris07-06-05, 05:35 PM | There isn't anything stopping you from playing a Black Ethergaunt without class levels at ECL 20. Also going into epic doesn't rid yourself of the LA problems. Elgonn, Actually going to EPIC levels does at the very least strongly mitigate LA problems. That's because your spells known no longer progress after level 20 and in order to learn EPIC spells and higher level slots, the general requirement is 9th level spells (plus a maxxed out knowledge skill IIRC). The point is that at EPIC levels, the only thing that LA costs you is caster level that is irrecoverable by feats (like practiced spellcaster). I also seem to recall that at least one PRC (the Heirophant) could even mitigate that. -Polaris |
| Elgonn07-06-05, 05:54 PM | Your still down 4 HD from epic feats from character level (like Epic Spellcasting). Your still down 4 from skill caps needed for virtually all epic feats (like Epic Spellcasting). Your less likely to be epic ready for PrC or class progression (especially an Ethergaunt). Your still down 4 levels of normal class abilities. Your still taking 4 LA. Yes it is less significant than a Pixie at level 1 but that is just because of the percentage scale. |
| Polaris07-06-05, 05:59 PM | Your still down 4 HD from epic feats from character level (like Epic Spellcasting). Your still down 4 from skill caps needed for virtually all epic feats (like Epic Spellcasting). Your less likely to be epic ready for PrC or class progression (especially an Ethergaunt). Your still down 4 levels of normal class abilities. Your still taking 4 LA. Yes it is less significant than a Pixie at level 1 but that is just because of the percentage scale. OK, I agree that LA still has a price at EPIC, but I don't think you can deny that at least for casters the price is very much reduced from pre-Epic. -Polaris |
| Elgonn07-06-05, 06:02 PM | If your DM is using Epic Spellcasting then there is a reduction. But it isn't huge. If your DM isn't using Epic Spellcasting then your just as if not more harmed by LA. |
| CaoSlayer07-07-05, 04:28 AM | you are right that a 0 LA wizard it is a more powerful wizard than a drow wizard, but an alive drow wizard it is better than a dead one... of course, I didnt taked into care those non-SR spells, by the current system, conjuration school seems a bit overpowered in the sense that have better energy dealing spells than evocation, of course that it is another topic. (from SRD) Spell resistance equal to 11 + class levels. it is just a 5% lesser, than means a 45% of chances of ignoring a spell, that it is a big deal at any level, a power word kill means a sure death to any caster but a drow, a holy word/blasfemy means a sure stun to everyone but a drow, an Otto´s dance means a sure dancing wizard but a drow, an maximized enervation means a wizard with 4 lesser caster but a drow... you get the chant? In this game there is lots of spells and magic traps without a save or that ever with a save (couple of fireballs) can screw a wizard, the SR means a way to survive unstoppable spells by other means. If you are including splatbooks, I sure of the existance of SR boosting feats out here :P |
| Polaris07-07-05, 04:55 AM | CaoSlayer, Oh SR is nice and I'd rather have it than not have it....and I will even agree that it merits an LA. However, Drow just don't make very good wizards (I know having played one....but Drow wizards can be kewl ;) ). In the first place that SR is effectively 9+char level because of the LA which means that enemy spells will penetrate about 60% of the time. To make matters even worse, there are more ways for offensive casters to boost rolls against SR than there are ways for you to boost your SR. [Just in the core rules alone, the caster can get +5 to his caster level checks (+4 from feats and +1 from items) which drops your SR from 40% to 15% which is pretty lousy. It gets even worse when you face casters above your level (which happens reasonably often). I grant that this percentage is a lot better than zero, but I note that a single spell from a cleric without an LA gives 12+Character level and can be placed on anyone. In short, the SR is just not a good enough reason to suck down two levels.....and that two level loss will make you a pretty rotten wizard compared with your LA+0 companions even with SR. -Polaris |
| babysamurai07-07-05, 05:09 AM | Then I guess, like I said in the beginning, for a +0 LA race, the Grey Elf is the way to go. |
| CaoSlayer07-07-05, 05:09 AM | jejeje, If the enemy´s BBEG spends this money and two feats in reducing the SR , then the drow´s SR did a good job.. It is more fearsome a wizard with spell focus evocation, greater evocation and a rod of quicken or maximized spell. |
| Polaris07-07-05, 05:26 AM | jejeje, If the enemy´s BBEG spends this money and two feats in reducing the SR , then the drow´s SR did a good job.. It is more fearsome a wizard with spell focus evocation, greater evocation and a rod of quicken or maximized spell. Gotta disagree. SR is distressingly common at higher CRs. That means that spell penetration and g. spell penetration are excellent feats for a high level caster. Will they all have it? No, but the feats are good enough that you will see it often. -Polaris |
| TrackStar07-08-05, 10:06 PM | What book is the gray/grey elf in? |
| Polaris07-08-05, 11:00 PM | What book is the gray/grey elf in? 3.5 Monster Manual, page 104. Look under the "Elf" entry which starts on page 102. -Polaris |
| TrackStar07-09-05, 04:05 AM | awesome thx |
| Father Dale07-09-05, 10:51 AM | The Sylvanesti elves from Dragonlance make great wizards too. +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Cha Darkvision 30' +1 racial bonus to Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcane) rest same as PHB Also, the Saint template from Book of Exalted Deeds is about the only LA I would consider for a caster. (LA 2) While it will lower your spellcasting significantly, as well as all hit die related benefits, the template benefits are significant. Damage Reduction, Fast Healing, +2 boost to save DCs of all spells, 60' darkvision, outsider type, Tongues, Protective Aura, immunity to acid cold electricity and petrification, fire resistance 10, ability bonuses (but not Int). A grey elf saint would have ability adjustments of -2 Str, +0 Con, +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha. Compared to a Drow with a +2 LA, this would be clearly better. |
| EvilVegan07-09-05, 05:45 PM | Umbral, half-celestial, half-(blue)-dragon, two-headed, feral, fire-breathing, tauric nymph-unicorn!! http://www.eldeth.com/BPE.bmp |
| TrackStar07-10-05, 01:36 AM | lol^ |