BIG campaign cleric change: Opinions requested [Archive] - Wizards Community

BIG campaign cleric change: Opinions requested [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xeviat-DM
02-21-04, 04:53 AM This one came to me today, and I'd like advice on how to impliment it properly. This isn't a balance discussion, I'm going to set aside my ideas of clerical balance for the time being.

First off, some world background. My setting is an animistic setting, and a cleric's domains represent the spirits which are connected to them.

Second, there are five primary spellcasters in my setting: Clerics (worshipers of the spirits), Druids (worshipers of nature itself), Psions (arcanists who use the magic from within the body), sorcerers (decendents of magical creatures), and wizards (arcanists who use the magic from the world around them). All of these classes have a companion/pet class ability, except for the cleric. Since my world is animistic, a pet/companion can be flavored to represent one's guardian spirit, or a portion of one's spirit personified.

But the Cleric, arguably the class who would most likely have one under this idea, doesn't have a pet/companion. I want to change that, but the only thing there is to remove from the cleric is Turn Undead.

Which brings me to my point. I want to remove Turn Undead from the standard Cleric. Turn Undead will become the ability of the Sun Domain, while Rebuke Undead would become the ability of the Death Domain. In place of Turn/Rebuke undead, clerics would get some sort of spiritual companion, like a wizards familiar or a druid's animal companion.

This idea is still in it's infancy, but I'd like some opinions.

Thanks.
Hengwrt Ellesmere
02-21-04, 03:17 PM Sounds like fun. There's an alternate cleric in Dragon 311 that derives its power from ancestor spirits. It doesn't get a spirit buddy, rather it gets advice from the spirits which translates into bonuses to various rolls each day.

Maybe your spiritualist cleric has an incorporeal spirit buddy that hangs around him like a familiar. He can't do much physically, but he can report what he sees. He'd also be able to contact the spirit world and give the cleric advice, like in the Dragon 311 version.
Sammael_the_Chosen
02-21-04, 04:04 PM Sounds like a pretty nice and balanced idea (as long as there aren't too many undead in the game). Your cleric somewhat resembles the 2nd edition shaman, so I suggest looking up 3E conversion of that class (I've seen at least three different core class versions and several prestige ones. Alas, I don't have them saved).
neoanderthal
02-21-04, 04:15 PM Interesting idea. I like the idea of an animal companion. What if you provided a certain type of animal or creature, based on Domain? Every Domain gets a spirit animal power - the PC can choose one from either domain.
If the cleric's domain were Death, you might even give them an Undead companion :D.
As for moving turn/rebuke to a domain power, it seems like a good concept to me.
Xeviat-DM
02-21-04, 04:38 PM Yeah, that's the thing, I'm having a hard time deciding on how to do the spirit companion in the first place. Part of me wants it to actually be a creature on the spirit plane, or at least have the limited ability to return to the spirit plane. But then there's issues with spying and sending ethereal creatures through walls and such.

The creature's stats would be more like a familiar than an animal companion though. It would definately get a template based on it's alignment or planar origins. An elemental spirit would have one of the elemental templates from MotP, a good/evil/law/chaos spirit would have one of the templates from MM or MotP, and that such ...

A Paladin's war horse, since paladins are a clerical PrC in my world like UA's paladin PrC, would be an augmented spirit companion.
neoanderthal
02-21-04, 06:01 PM Hmmm, why not make it summonable, and able to appear in the PC's immediate vicinity, but can return home (to another plane, or to the original home if from the Prime) if need be, or if it gets 'killed'? Have them advance the way a familiar does, and confer on the cleric some sort of skill, the way a familiar does?
PhaedrusXY
02-21-04, 06:11 PM Have you looked at the Shaman class in Oriental Adventures? It has many of the qualities that you want for clerics in your world. There are also alot of spells that deal with spirits in that book.
Xeviat-DM
02-21-04, 06:27 PM Yes, I have access to the Shaman in OA. But I'd like to use the standard cleric, as the shaman from OA doesn't really mesh well with the fighter class to create a Paladin and Blackguard PrC. Now, reducing the HD and giving them more skill points would be okay with me, but then again I'd be fine with doing that with most classes.
Xeviat-DM
02-22-04, 11:07 AM A little bump.
SmiloDan
02-22-04, 11:45 AM Maybe the spirit-companion of the cleric can be the reincarnated spirit of an ancestor? Maybe they need to serve on the material plane in animal form to redeem some transgression?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 02-21-04, 04:53 AM	This one came to me today, and I'd like advice on how to impliment it properly. This isn't a balance discussion, I'm going to set aside my ideas of clerical balance for the time being. First off, some world background. My setting is an animistic setting, and a cleric's domains represent the spirits which are connected to them. Second, there are five primary spellcasters in my setting: Clerics (worshipers of the spirits), Druids (worshipers of nature itself), Psions (arcanists who use the magic from within the body), sorcerers (decendents of magical creatures), and wizards (arcanists who use the magic from the world around them). All of these classes have a companion/pet class ability, except for the cleric. Since my world is animistic, a pet/companion can be flavored to represent one's guardian spirit, or a portion of one's spirit personified. But the Cleric, arguably the class who would most likely have one under this idea, doesn't have a pet/companion. I want to change that, but the only thing there is to remove from the cleric is Turn Undead. Which brings me to my point. I want to remove Turn Undead from the standard Cleric. Turn Undead will become the ability of the Sun Domain, while Rebuke Undead would become the ability of the Death Domain. In place of Turn/Rebuke undead, clerics would get some sort of spiritual companion, like a wizards familiar or a druid's animal companion. This idea is still in it's infancy, but I'd like some opinions. Thanks.
Hengwrt Ellesmere 02-21-04, 03:17 PM	Sounds like fun. There's an alternate cleric in Dragon 311 that derives its power from ancestor spirits. It doesn't get a spirit buddy, rather it gets advice from the spirits which translates into bonuses to various rolls each day. Maybe your spiritualist cleric has an incorporeal spirit buddy that hangs around him like a familiar. He can't do much physically, but he can report what he sees. He'd also be able to contact the spirit world and give the cleric advice, like in the Dragon 311 version.
Sammael_the_Chosen 02-21-04, 04:04 PM	Sounds like a pretty nice and balanced idea (as long as there aren't too many undead in the game). Your cleric somewhat resembles the 2nd edition shaman, so I suggest looking up 3E conversion of that class (I've seen at least three different core class versions and several prestige ones. Alas, I don't have them saved).
neoanderthal 02-21-04, 04:15 PM	Interesting idea. I like the idea of an animal companion. What if you provided a certain type of animal or creature, based on Domain? Every Domain gets a spirit animal power - the PC can choose one from either domain. If the cleric's domain were Death, you might even give them an Undead companion :D. As for moving turn/rebuke to a domain power, it seems like a good concept to me.
Xeviat-DM 02-21-04, 04:38 PM	Yeah, that's the thing, I'm having a hard time deciding on how to do the spirit companion in the first place. Part of me wants it to actually be a creature on the spirit plane, or at least have the limited ability to return to the spirit plane. But then there's issues with spying and sending ethereal creatures through walls and such. The creature's stats would be more like a familiar than an animal companion though. It would definately get a template based on it's alignment or planar origins. An elemental spirit would have one of the elemental templates from MotP, a good/evil/law/chaos spirit would have one of the templates from MM or MotP, and that such ... A Paladin's war horse, since paladins are a clerical PrC in my world like UA's paladin PrC, would be an augmented spirit companion.
neoanderthal 02-21-04, 06:01 PM	Hmmm, why not make it summonable, and able to appear in the PC's immediate vicinity, but can return home (to another plane, or to the original home if from the Prime) if need be, or if it gets 'killed'? Have them advance the way a familiar does, and confer on the cleric some sort of skill, the way a familiar does?
PhaedrusXY 02-21-04, 06:11 PM	Have you looked at the Shaman class in Oriental Adventures? It has many of the qualities that you want for clerics in your world. There are also alot of spells that deal with spirits in that book.
Xeviat-DM 02-21-04, 06:27 PM	Yes, I have access to the Shaman in OA. But I'd like to use the standard cleric, as the shaman from OA doesn't really mesh well with the fighter class to create a Paladin and Blackguard PrC. Now, reducing the HD and giving them more skill points would be okay with me, but then again I'd be fine with doing that with most classes.
Xeviat-DM 02-22-04, 11:07 AM	A little bump.
SmiloDan 02-22-04, 11:45 AM	Maybe the spirit-companion of the cleric can be the reincarnated spirit of an ancestor? Maybe they need to serve on the material plane in animal form to redeem some transgression?