Post/Author/DateTime	Post
painfool 11-09-07, 10:58 PM	I know I'm hardly the first person to attempt to make a real priest/bishop/white mage type divine caster, but I really just wanted to make one as simple as possible. So I basically spliced the Cleric with the Sorcerer and ended up with the Bishop. So without further ado... Bishop version 2.0 Adventurers: Much like clerics, bishops adventure to support and further their deity's causes. Bishops that belong to a church or order may be sent out on mission by their superiors. Additionally, bishops may turn to adventuring for any common modivation as well. Characteristics: Bishops are a sort of specialized divine spellcaster. Though they may never have access to the vast number of spells that clerics or druids have, bishops can cast their spells with much greater frequency than other divine casters. Bishops also can channel divine energy to affect the undead. A good bishop can turn away or destroy undead; an evil bishop can control undead. Bishops also have limited combat training. As such, they can wield simple weapons, carry shields, and wear light armor. Alignmnent: Bishops can be of any alignment, though good and neutral bishops are more common than evil as the number of followers of evil deities is typically much less. As lawful religions are typically more structured and thus better able to recruit and train bishops, bishops are more often lawful than chaotic. Bishops must be no less than step away from their deity's alignment, as clerics. Religion: Every well-known deity has bishop followers, so bishops may be of any religion. Some bishops however, choose to devote themselves to a cause or source of divine power. These bishops are not associated with any religious institution or any set practice of worship. Background: As any person is free to worship, bishops may come from any walk of life and they may start their devotion at any age. Bishops of the same faith as expected to get along, though schisms within a church are often more bitter than conflicts between faiths. Bishops with similar ideals, such as goodness or lawfulness, may find common ground with each other and see themselves as part of an order or body that supersedes any given faith. Bishops of opposed ideals, however, are often sworn enemies. Races: Since worship is common in all races, characters of any race may be a bishop. Bishops are slightly less common among the savage humanoids. Other Classes: Bishops are often well-liked in adventuring parties. They are extremely capable healers and adventurers of any class typically appreciate being cured of their wounds. How a bishop views the other class is mostly dictated by his alignment and deity. Role: The bishop can serve as a group's primary healer as well as a decent offensive or support spellcaster. Though bishops have some combat ability, they are best suited to playing the role of a spellcaster. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d6. Class Skills: The bishop's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are class features of the bishop. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Bishops are proficient with all simple weapons. Bishops are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). Bishops are prohibited from casting spells if they wear medium or heavy armor. Spells: A bishop casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). To learn or cast a spell, a bishop must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bishop's spell is 10 + the spell level + the bishop's Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a bishop can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Bishop. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. A bishop’s selection of spells is limited. A bishop begins play knowing seven 0-level spells and three 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new bishop level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Bishop Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a bishop knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Bishop Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells are chosen from the Cleric spell list. Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered bishop level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a bishop can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the bishop “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level bishop spell the bishop can cast. A bishop may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level. Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a bishop need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast. Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): Bishops can channel divine power to turn or rebuke undead creatures. A good bishop (or a neutral bishop who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil bishop (or a neutral bishop who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral bishop of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good bishop or an evil bishop . Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. A bishop may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 1 + his Charisma modifier. A bishop with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead. Domain Access: A bishop’s deity influences his alignment, his values, and how others see him. A bishop chooses one domain from among those belonging to his deity. A bishop can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain. If a bishop is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects a domain to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies. Each domain gives the bishop access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up. Unlike clerics, a bishop does not gain additional spells per day from his domain, nor does he gain any special powers or abilities from his domain. His domain merely grants him additional access to additional spells that he may learn and cast as if they were regularly available to him. Bonus Languages: A bishop's bonus language options include Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal (the languages of good, chaotic evil, and lawful evil outsiders, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of his race. Table: The Bishop BAB: As Sorcerer Saves: As Sorcerer Level Special ————————Spells per Day—–——————— 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st Turn/Rebuke 5 4 — — — — — — — — Undead 2nd 6 5 — — — — — — — — 3rd 6 5 3 — — — — — — — 4th 6 6 4 — — — — — — — 5th 6 6 4 3 — — — — — — 6th 6 6 5 4 — — — — — — 7th 7 6 5 4 3 — — — — — 8th 7 6 6 5 4 — — — — — 9th 7 7 6 5 4 3 — — — — 10th 7 7 6 6 5 4 — — — — 11th 7 7 7 6 5 4 3 — — — 12th 8 7 7 6 6 5 4 — — — 13th 8 7 7 7 6 5 4 3 — — 14th 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 4 — — 15th 8 8 8 7 7 6 6 4 3 — 16th 9 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 4 — 17th 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 3 18th 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 5 4 19th 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 5 20th 9 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 Table: Bishop Spells Known Level ————————Spells Known—–——————— 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st 7 3 — — — — — — — — 2nd 8 4 — — — — — — — — 3rd 8 5 3 — — — — — — — 4th 9 5 4 — — — — — — — 5th 9 6 5 3 — — — — — — 6th 10 6 5 4 — — — — — — 7th 10 7 6 5 3 — — — — — 8th 10 7 6 5 4 — — — — — 9th 11 8 7 6 5 3 — — — — 10th 11 8 7 6 5 4 — — — — 11th 11 9 8 7 6 5 3 — — — 12th 11 9 8 7 6 5 4 — — — 13th 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 3 — — 14th 12 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 — — 15th 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 3 — 16th 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 — 17th 12 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 3 18th 12 12 12 11 9 8 7 6 5 4 19th 12 12 12 12 10 9 8 7 6 5 20th 12 12 12 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 As far as balance goes, I don't think this class is in much danger of being overpowered... Since I consider this class somewhat closer to the sorcerer than the cleric, I tried to compare the two to each other: The bishop may cast more spells per day than the sorcerer, but divine spells typically don't equal arcane spells in sheer power.
vorpo 11-09-07, 11:03 PM	Pls drop me a note in the Peach Market (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=945547) as to what category to put your class under. I'd suggest you bold the entries' names for easier readability
painfool 11-09-07, 11:59 PM	Done and done, thanks!
DrakaraGM 11-10-07, 01:43 AM	Didn't like the favored soul, eh? :-) A few things... First, proficiencies. You say they are proficient in no armor or shields, and then you say light armore and shields (except tower shields) -- which is it? I would guess light armor and shields, since you mention that again below. Second, you mention "sorcerer level" when you want to say "bishop level" in the Spells section. Minor typo sort of thing. :) Third, regarding turn undead -- you don't need to specify that they get a +2 bonus on turn undead checks with 5 ranks of Kn(Religion), and probably shouldn't -- that is already specified in the PHB under the Kn(Religion) skill (and possibly under the Turn Undead mechanics, I forget). Unless you want them to get an extra +2, which I doubt since they already have synergy between CHA as primary casting stat and CHA as turn undead stat. I do like that they only get 1+CHA mod turning attempts, that makes up somewhat for having higher CHA than typical clerics. However, you should have only G and N bishops able to turn undead, N and E able to rebuke undead, as with clerics -- with an N bishop having to choose between turn and rebuke. Question -- is it your intent that bishops must serve a deity or religion, or can they just have faith in some philosophy etc. like a cleric? A suggestion that may make them a little bit more interesting without increasing their power or complexity too much -- and which would helps differentiate between a bishop of one faith and a bishop of another. Trim back their spells per day to that of the sorcerer, and allow the bishop to select one domain, using the normal cleric rules for domain selection. (I.e. if serve a deity, must be one the deity provides, and cannot choose an aluignment domain unless of that alignment, etc.) Add "+d" to the spells known for 1st-9th level spells. Because divine spells are allegedly less powerful to some extent than arcane spells, this should be okay, and it will add a single spell know at each level of spells that the bishop doesn't get to choose (or replace), but which is instead determined by the domain selected. The bishop would also get the granted power etc. of the domain, using bishop level rather than cleric level where appropriate. This would allow a bishop to become known for a specific type of spell -- a Healer would likely be a bishop who took Healing domain, for example. The bishop would represent one specific aspect of his deity or faith, or the domain could even simply represent a core aspect of his philosophy. Other spells could still be selected as normal, of course -- nothing prevents a bishop who does not take Healing domain from still selecting plenty of healing spells and becoming known as a healer as well -- but the extra spells known and the granted power etc. would provide a basic theme the character can build upon or around. If you don't want to just give them the domain spells, you can use the standard rules for "non-clerics getting a domain" -- the bishop would get the granted power but would not automatically get the spells from the domain, they would however get added to his spell list and he could learn them instead of other spells. That is less powerful, but still helps make them a little more interesting, and will generally provide access to at least some non-standard spells, or at least provide a useful granted power. But personally if I were to play this class I would rather have the extra 1-9 spells known, and just have the standard number of sorcerer spells per day rather than getting extra castings. At a certain point a spontaneous caster is likely to have more spells per day than he knows what to do with -- so rather than being able to cast even more, from a limited selection, it would definitely be more fun to have slightly more spells known and just be 'limited' to the same number of spells per day. So I would grant them a domain and "+d" to spells known as noted, and drop the spells per day back to be the same as a sorcerer. That plus the granted power makes them more interesting, whereas another couple spells per day at every level is just overkill. :D
painfool 11-10-07, 02:10 AM	Didn't like the favored soul, eh? :-) A few things... First, proficiencies. You say they are proficient in no armor or shields, and then you say light armore and shields (except tower shields) -- which is it? I would guess light armor and shields, since you mention that again below. Second, you mention "sorcerer level" when you want to say "bishop level" in the Spells section. Minor typo sort of thing. :) Oops - that's what I get for copy/pasting from the SRD. Thanks for catching them, they're fixed now. Third, regarding turn undead -- you don't need to specify that they get a +2 bonus on turn undead checks with 5 ranks of Kn(Religion), and probably shouldn't -- that is already specified in the PHB under the Kn(Religion) skill (and possibly under the Turn Undead mechanics, I forget). Unless you want them to get an extra +2, which I doubt since they already have synergy between CHA as primary casting stat and CHA as turn undead stat. I do like that they only get 1+CHA mod turning attempts, that makes up somewhat for having higher CHA than typical clerics. However, you should have only G and N bishops able to turn undead, N and E able to rebuke undead, as with clerics -- with an N bishop having to choose between turn and rebuke. The +2 bonus thing I only included because the Cleric SRD I was referencing (too lazy to get out the hard copy of my book) included it: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cleric As for rebuking, originally I left that out because I didn't want to step on the Cleric's turf too much, but assumed they're probably learned at least how to handle undead in their various temples/cults/etc whether they were good or evil... But I guess it still doesn't make that much sense to allow them all to turn... I'll update with the stand good = turn, evil = rebuke rules. Question -- is it your intent that bishops must serve a deity or religion, or can they just have faith in some philosophy etc. like a cleric? I intend for them to have some sort of faith structure, but I was hoping to stay away from domains - again just to not step too far onto the Cleric's turf. A suggestion that may make them a little bit more interesting without increasing their power or complexity too much -- and which would helps differentiate between a bishop of one faith and a bishop of another. Trim back their spells per day to that of the sorcerer, and allow the bishop to select one domain, using the normal cleric rules for domain selection. (I.e. if serve a deity, must be one the deity provides, and cannot choose an aluignment domain unless of that alignment, etc.) Add "+d" to the spells known for 1st-9th level spells. Because divine spells are allegedly less powerful to some extent than arcane spells, this should be okay, and it will add a single spell know at each level of spells that the bishop doesn't get to choose (or replace), but which is instead determined by the domain selected. The bishop would also get the granted power etc. of the domain, using bishop level rather than cleric level where appropriate. This would allow a bishop to become known for a specific type of spell -- a Healer would likely be a bishop who took Healing domain, for example. The bishop would represent one specific aspect of his deity or faith, or the domain could even simply represent a core aspect of his philosophy. Other spells could still be selected as normal, of course -- nothing prevents a bishop who does not take Healing domain from still selecting plenty of healing spells and becoming known as a healer as well -- but the extra spells known and the granted power etc. would provide a basic theme the character can build upon or around. If you don't want to just give them the domain spells, you can use the standard rules for "non-clerics getting a domain" -- the bishop would get the granted power but would not automatically get the spells from the domain, they would however get added to his spell list and he could learn them instead of other spells. That is less powerful, but still helps make them a little more interesting, and will generally provide access to at least some non-standard spells, or at least provide a useful granted power. Like I said - I didn't want to get too much into the domains... But I like just giving them access to the domain spells. I'll probably add that into the class edit. Thanks for replying - you've definitely helped me figure out how to best adjust this class. Once I get it all figured out I'll edit the post with the changes and hopefully by then I'll have had time to write out all the flavor text.
danielinthewolvesden 11-10-07, 02:29 AM	Why take a Nerf bat to the Favoured Soul?:confused: Except that this class gets Turning, which will not be used for anything but Divine feats, so what's the point?
painfool 11-10-07, 07:53 AM	Because I personally think the Favored Soul is unbalanced? Also, because I wanted a hardcore divine caster - one who gave up being melee-savvy for being able to cast spell after spell all day long.
danielinthewolvesden 11-10-07, 01:25 PM	Because I personally think the Favored Soul is unbalanced? It's not.
painfool 11-11-07, 11:37 AM	I disagree. But I'm not interested in arguing that point - the fact remains that I don't allow Favored Souls in my game.
painfool 12-13-07, 08:45 PM	After playtesting, I needed to make a few adjustments: -Added domain spell access. -MAJOR adjustment in the number of spells known. Any thoughts on the new version?
painfool 12-13-07, 11:11 PM	Update: Flavor text (finally) added.