Bitnine's Happy Funtime Class Challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bitnine's Happy Funtime Class Challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bitnine
12-16-06, 01:30 PM Bitnine's Happy Funtime Class Challenge

Now I posted this over on another thread, but I suppose its a topic in its own right. Basically, I figured it would be interesting to see some of the takes of y'all on a the classes of party of characters based on a largely in-game description. I really am interesting in seeing peoples takes on this, so please feel free and encouraged to submit a guess.

The Party:

"So, even after all you've heard about us, you still wish to risk your lives like this?" Netan asked, a slight smile still on his face. By now his sword had moved from resting on his shoulder to in front of him, punctuating his words with slight movement. "If you were just to tell us where she's being held, I'm sure the danger from your employer's displeasure would be much less then that from ours."

The cloaked figure took a half step back, and for a moment, Mirra thought he was going to fold or bolt. But then he glanced to his fellows and step forward, bringing a thin sword to bear from under his cloak. Mirra sighed, running her fingers across the holy symbol around her neck. Nothing was ever easy with this bunch.

"You may be sure," the lithe figure muttered, "but that certainty is not a luxury that I can share in."

By now the mercenary's men had readied themselves as well. The one on the left held a bow, but Mirra's attention turned towards the woman on the right and the scroll case in her hand. Mirra couldn't help but sneak a glance towards Jaal. If she hadn't had seen him conceal himself in the branches, she would never have been able to pick out his slight form. Chiding herself for the peak, Mirra turned her attention back to their opponents. She steadied herself, ready to incinerate the scroll the moment it was loosed from its case. Out of the corner of her eye, she saw Netan's mouth silently moving. She always did wonder what he was saying to himself, but hadn't yet felt comfortable asking him.

By the strength of Kalaza'un, by the strength of Kalaza'un... Netan's mantra flowed through his body as well his mind, giving him strength, giving him focus. He could feel the power and the passion of his ancestor fill him, shutting out distraction, sharpening his senses. His eyes were fixed on his opponent, but he could hear Jaal's slight rustle in the trees, even the sound of Illiana's breathing as she stood next to him, still cloaked by her magic. Netan surged forward, thrusting before the cloaked figure could react. Despite the cloak's flair, Netan could feel he scored a hit, and his opponent staggered back. Then there was a bright flash and Netan could see the white purifying fire flowing from Mirra's hands, and the arcanist flinch as the scroll in her hands exploded into hot ash. At the same time, Netan's attention was turned more towards the arrow that whistled through the air and buried itself into his shoulder.

Jaal's eyes narrowed as he saw this. For a moment he considered turning his crossbow to fire on the archer, but there would be time for that soon enough. He fired at the arcanist, deftly dropping from the tree before surveying the results. He heard a low disembodied moan in front of him - Illiana. Jaal fought back a shudder. He knew it wasn't deserved; Illiana had proven herself time and again, and even Jaal had occasion to use magics to conceal himself. The moan broke into a rhythm, became a chant, increased in tempo. Then, in a shimmer, Illiana became visible, moving in time to her chant, ducking between her foes as she swayed and thrust with a curved blade in each hand.

Jaal the Swift: A self-styled mage hunter, Jaal is a bounty hunter by trade. An agile and skilled warrior and tracker, Jaal uses a mixture of stealth and arcane trinkets to fight his enemies. Jaal is tight-lipped about his past and the reasons for his distrust of arcane magic, but he has shown himself to be trustworthy and devoted. He sees no hypocrisy in working with others or his own use of magic, as he focuses on the misuse of magic and acknowledges that it can be used well - even if he is still left slightly uneasy. Jaal is quick to anger and judges others harshly, something he tries to fight when dealing with other members of the party. He honestly does believe the others to be trustworthy, and his cynical views tell him that such a find is incredibly rare.

Mirra Talshane: Born in a small village in the eastlands, as a young child Mirra often received dreams of the White Lady, a regional patron saint. Devout and faithful, Mirra found herself blessed with the gift of magic, able to both heal the wounded and call upon a blistering white fire. The flames she wields are intense, capable of scorching even those creatures who live in flame. She feels honored and humbled by these gifts, and works to help others in repayment. Recently, she has accepted the honor of training as an exorcist and fighting against the undead. Mirra is eager to push the party to accomplish great things, both believing them capable, and that she will be granted greater power to protect others after proving herself.

Illiana Ai Tor: Once a soldier in a regional militia, Illiana's unit was caught by an ambush in the sands and slaughtered. Left for dead, she was rescued by a nomad tribe, who took her in as one of their own. To repay them, Illiana stayed with them for a long time, helping them in their tribal conflicts and learning their ways. Long ago she set aside her heavy armor for the light leathers and curved blades of her adopted tribe, learning their war chants and magics. Every battledancer is expected to leave the tribe and experience the world, and Illiana has taken her leave to adventure with the party for a time. She is quiet and almost unreadable, in great contrast to her fierce, exotic and graceful fighting style.

Netan Vellan: Netan is the scion of a warrior house, just outside the city-state of Jolar. While he has had little in the way of formal martial training, he grew up accompanying family members in escorting caravans through the desert and fending off bandit attacks. He is more than a capable hand with his greatsword and buckler, and he prays to his ancestors, great heroes, believing that he can focus and channel their strength in battle. While very charming and talkative in most cases, Netan is quiet, single-minded, and focused in battle. Netan is well-read in the history of his family and the region, and far more comfortable along well-marked trails and the city than he is when venturing deeper into the desert. Due to his energetic and charismatic nature, Netan is looked upon as the unofficial leader of the party.

The Challenge: Alright, so here's the challenge part. Can any of you tell me what classes each of the above characters possess? I've got a brief writeup right here. And, as a bonus, go ahead and tell me how their particular classes or number thereof impacts their ability to be roleplayed.
Hint: They are all ECL 12.
bitnine
12-16-06, 01:30 PM Note: Don't feel you have to guess for accuracy. If you want to post a mechanical representation just to show something that could well represent the character as written, please feel free.

Disclaimer: For the record, I do have particular classes written down for each. Perhaps part of my message might be that they could be represented in any number of ways, but I'm not quite so disingenuous as to play a shell game like that. ;) Do keep in mind, though, that feats were selected as well, which may indeed impact the representations or abilities mentioned above.

Material Available: As an point of reference, the material available to the 'players' in this campaign were: Core books, the complete series, the 'races of' series, the 'heroes of' series, eberron material, faerun material, environmental series (sandstorm, etc), phb/dmg II, spell compendium, arcana unearthed, and tome of battle. I realize that that may not narrow it down much, but someone asked and those are the books I have available. Actually, I will go a step further: one of these characters only uses core material and/or unearthed arcana (not necessarily both) - so feel free to make an entry even if you have limited splatbook access.

Guesses: GhostStepper: Ranger/(Occult Slayer or Witch Hunter) Roland the Crownbreaker: Ranger/Rogue GhostStepper: Cleric/Exorcist of the Silver Flame Roland the Crownbreaker: Favored Soul/Sacred Exorcist GhostStepper: Fighter/Dervish Roland the Crownbreaker: Fighter/Bard/Dervish GhostStepper: Barbarian Roland the Crownbreaker: Paladin

Purpose: Well, beyond the challenge of trying to glean if and how class particulars really impacted the characters as I have written them, there's something that I find very interesting that I'd like to explore. That is, the potential flexibility and mutability of what classes represent and how abstracted they are to particular representations. Both that and how any number of particular menchanical representations equate to these particulars are their ramifications. The exact scope of that and the takes that people from above I'm very interested to see in and of themselves.

And please feel free to mention if the characters above seem interesting to you, and if they make sense and could be roleplayed well. One of the most illuminating things should then be, assuming the initial take is positive, how each one of the class combination particulars that fit the characters well can - taking this as an example - share in those traits.
Tempest Stormwind
12-16-06, 01:53 PM You do realize that with mutable flavor (which is a hallmark of good roleplay), guesses like these are practically impossible, right? I've run twisted mutants in my game that transmute their bodies on the fly to strange combinations of stone, gas, and parts of other creatures as they see fit, when mechanically they were just MONKS.

Furthermore, you focus descriptions on the roleplay aspect of the game, which is completely independent from the mechanical aspect that you want us to guess. I have played characters from the same class who are dedicated to their friends, who would betray them in an instant, and who saw them as distant business partners. Which class was that? I've also played paladins with no levels in Paladin, simply by accurately playing that role properly.

See the point?

Besides, this doesn't even BEGIN to delve into the myriad amounts of overlap in the game. Mirra, for instance, works as a sorcerer with Extra Spell (Cure X Wounds) and the Searing Spell feat, a favored soul, or a spellfire wielder of any class, likely with one of the three or four exorcism-related PrCs or domains -- and that's BEFORE you adjust your flavor to fit.

I see this as either pointless, or meant to subtly demonstrate the futility of this exercise to those who believe it's perfectly doable. I know you from your posts to be far smarter than most of those people, so I can assume this was posted for the latter reason. If I'm disturbing your exercise with this, I'll remove my post.

EDIT: This was written before your edit of the second post.
bitnine
12-16-06, 02:27 PM I see this as either pointless, or meant to subtly demonstrate the futility of this exercise to those who believe it's perfectly doable. I know you from your posts to be far smarter than most of those people, so I can assume this was posted for the latter reason. If I'm disturbing your exercise with this, I'll remove my post.No, I think that it is a reaction that would naturally arise and it's very good to see it articulated in such a manner so that it can be reasonably addressed in a non-disruptive way. I've edited my second post to mention this in a straightforward fashion. And honestly, I made sure to have the classes in mind before I wrote the above, so I am partially interested in seeing if there really were telltale signs of reflection and, if so, to what extent. So I wouldn't take it as a given that the guess for accuracy portion is an excersize in "guess what I'm thinking" futility.

But yes, there is something beyond this. In the end, it would be really neat to see a big list of guesses for each character, showing in part the creativity of people crafting concept representations in ways I probably would have never thought of. It would also be interesting and valuable, I think, in being able to look and say at least two things: "Hey, look at all the different ways that this character could be represented." and "Hey, look at the examples of how all these mechanical and class combinations can indeed represent an interesting and well-played character."

(And by the by, my initial edit finished before your post. :p)
Roland the Crownbreaker
12-16-06, 03:04 PM Hmm...

Jaal could also be a ranger/rogue with several ranks in UMD. Or he could just be a straight Rouge with the track feat. Or a ranger or rogue or ranger/rogue with any number of possible prestige classes.

The fluff written for Mirra makes me think more of a Favored Soul than a Cleric, and the spells used may be as simple as the basic Flame Strike spell. Possibly prestiged into a sacred exorcist from the complete divine.

Illiana seems to me to have levels in bard or skald due to the use of minor magics and war chants. The fighting style could be something as basic as the bounding assualt feat. There has to be something more than fighter/dervish due to the use of some kind of magic.

Netan in my mind seems to be a paladin with changes in the flavor, possibly with a level or two of barbarian thrown in, or perhaps not. The concept of "channeling the powers of his ancestors" makes me think of more than the basic barbarian. That, and the mention of be very charismatic.
bitnine
12-17-06, 04:22 PM There has to be something more than fighter/dervish due to the use of some kind of magic.Well, to be clear, some feats were included in the writeups that I had in mind (potentially along with class variants), so do keep in mind that not every ability mentioned may directly track towards a class granting it.
Always-Late
12-24-06, 02:01 AM It would ruin the challenge for you to give us a giant list of splatbooks from whence they could possibly come? This is just because my splat access is soreliy limited, and I don't want to bother if the sources are too new or too varied. For example, if I had Tome of Battle I'd check if there's an invisibility-granting maneuver in it. But I don't.

Questoin II: Gear counts, or no?

[[EDIT]] Question III: Are we to assume that little of this is "fluff?" For example, does white fire mean anything beyond personal preference, and does ancestral prayer actually entail drawing any power or just a possible personal ritual?
bitnine
12-24-06, 02:59 PM It would ruin the challenge for you to give us a giant list of splatbooks from whence they could possibly come?Done and done, up in the second post. In any event, feel free to posit what the characters could be represented by, even if you lack the splatastrophy of books that are out there.Questoin II: Gear counts, or no?In general, it would probably count. I mean, using a ring of evasion to enter a PrC happens sometimes; or a holy symbol that was an item familiar and granted its wearer divine spells is quite possible. But in this case, I didn't have any magical properties of gear defined when I wrote the descriptions.[[EDIT]] Question III: Are we to assume that little of this is "fluff?"Probably. Speaking as a hypothetical, it is unlikely that Netan's mantra is mechanically dictated for whatever ability is being used - though it's definately something real for the character.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bitnine 12-16-06, 01:30 PM	Bitnine's Happy Funtime Class Challenge Now I posted this over on another thread, but I suppose its a topic in its own right. Basically, I figured it would be interesting to see some of the takes of y'all on a the classes of party of characters based on a largely in-game description. I really am interesting in seeing peoples takes on this, so please feel free and encouraged to submit a guess. The Party: "So, even after all you've heard about us, you still wish to risk your lives like this?" Netan asked, a slight smile still on his face. By now his sword had moved from resting on his shoulder to in front of him, punctuating his words with slight movement. "If you were just to tell us where she's being held, I'm sure the danger from your employer's displeasure would be much less then that from ours." The cloaked figure took a half step back, and for a moment, Mirra thought he was going to fold or bolt. But then he glanced to his fellows and step forward, bringing a thin sword to bear from under his cloak. Mirra sighed, running her fingers across the holy symbol around her neck. Nothing was ever easy with this bunch. "You may be sure," the lithe figure muttered, "but that certainty is not a luxury that I can share in." By now the mercenary's men had readied themselves as well. The one on the left held a bow, but Mirra's attention turned towards the woman on the right and the scroll case in her hand. Mirra couldn't help but sneak a glance towards Jaal. If she hadn't had seen him conceal himself in the branches, she would never have been able to pick out his slight form. Chiding herself for the peak, Mirra turned her attention back to their opponents. She steadied herself, ready to incinerate the scroll the moment it was loosed from its case. Out of the corner of her eye, she saw Netan's mouth silently moving. She always did wonder what he was saying to himself, but hadn't yet felt comfortable asking him. By the strength of Kalaza'un, by the strength of Kalaza'un... Netan's mantra flowed through his body as well his mind, giving him strength, giving him focus. He could feel the power and the passion of his ancestor fill him, shutting out distraction, sharpening his senses. His eyes were fixed on his opponent, but he could hear Jaal's slight rustle in the trees, even the sound of Illiana's breathing as she stood next to him, still cloaked by her magic. Netan surged forward, thrusting before the cloaked figure could react. Despite the cloak's flair, Netan could feel he scored a hit, and his opponent staggered back. Then there was a bright flash and Netan could see the white purifying fire flowing from Mirra's hands, and the arcanist flinch as the scroll in her hands exploded into hot ash. At the same time, Netan's attention was turned more towards the arrow that whistled through the air and buried itself into his shoulder. Jaal's eyes narrowed as he saw this. For a moment he considered turning his crossbow to fire on the archer, but there would be time for that soon enough. He fired at the arcanist, deftly dropping from the tree before surveying the results. He heard a low disembodied moan in front of him - Illiana. Jaal fought back a shudder. He knew it wasn't deserved; Illiana had proven herself time and again, and even Jaal had occasion to use magics to conceal himself. The moan broke into a rhythm, became a chant, increased in tempo. Then, in a shimmer, Illiana became visible, moving in time to her chant, ducking between her foes as she swayed and thrust with a curved blade in each hand. Jaal the Swift: A self-styled mage hunter, Jaal is a bounty hunter by trade. An agile and skilled warrior and tracker, Jaal uses a mixture of stealth and arcane trinkets to fight his enemies. Jaal is tight-lipped about his past and the reasons for his distrust of arcane magic, but he has shown himself to be trustworthy and devoted. He sees no hypocrisy in working with others or his own use of magic, as he focuses on the misuse of magic and acknowledges that it can be used well - even if he is still left slightly uneasy. Jaal is quick to anger and judges others harshly, something he tries to fight when dealing with other members of the party. He honestly does believe the others to be trustworthy, and his cynical views tell him that such a find is incredibly rare. Mirra Talshane: Born in a small village in the eastlands, as a young child Mirra often received dreams of the White Lady, a regional patron saint. Devout and faithful, Mirra found herself blessed with the gift of magic, able to both heal the wounded and call upon a blistering white fire. The flames she wields are intense, capable of scorching even those creatures who live in flame. She feels honored and humbled by these gifts, and works to help others in repayment. Recently, she has accepted the honor of training as an exorcist and fighting against the undead. Mirra is eager to push the party to accomplish great things, both believing them capable, and that she will be granted greater power to protect others after proving herself. Illiana Ai Tor: Once a soldier in a regional militia, Illiana's unit was caught by an ambush in the sands and slaughtered. Left for dead, she was rescued by a nomad tribe, who took her in as one of their own. To repay them, Illiana stayed with them for a long time, helping them in their tribal conflicts and learning their ways. Long ago she set aside her heavy armor for the light leathers and curved blades of her adopted tribe, learning their war chants and magics. Every battledancer is expected to leave the tribe and experience the world, and Illiana has taken her leave to adventure with the party for a time. She is quiet and almost unreadable, in great contrast to her fierce, exotic and graceful fighting style. Netan Vellan: Netan is the scion of a warrior house, just outside the city-state of Jolar. While he has had little in the way of formal martial training, he grew up accompanying family members in escorting caravans through the desert and fending off bandit attacks. He is more than a capable hand with his greatsword and buckler, and he prays to his ancestors, great heroes, believing that he can focus and channel their strength in battle. While very charming and talkative in most cases, Netan is quiet, single-minded, and focused in battle. Netan is well-read in the history of his family and the region, and far more comfortable along well-marked trails and the city than he is when venturing deeper into the desert. Due to his energetic and charismatic nature, Netan is looked upon as the unofficial leader of the party. The Challenge: Alright, so here's the challenge part. Can any of you tell me what classes each of the above characters possess? I've got a brief writeup right here. And, as a bonus, go ahead and tell me how their particular classes or number thereof impacts their ability to be roleplayed. Hint: They are all ECL 12.
bitnine 12-16-06, 01:30 PM	Note: Don't feel you have to guess for accuracy. If you want to post a mechanical representation just to show something that could well represent the character as written, please feel free. Disclaimer: For the record, I do have particular classes written down for each. Perhaps part of my message might be that they could be represented in any number of ways, but I'm not quite so disingenuous as to play a shell game like that. ;) Do keep in mind, though, that feats were selected as well, which may indeed impact the representations or abilities mentioned above. Material Available: As an point of reference, the material available to the 'players' in this campaign were: Core books, the complete series, the 'races of' series, the 'heroes of' series, eberron material, faerun material, environmental series (sandstorm, etc), phb/dmg II, spell compendium, arcana unearthed, and tome of battle. I realize that that may not narrow it down much, but someone asked and those are the books I have available. Actually, I will go a step further: one of these characters only uses core material and/or unearthed arcana (not necessarily both) - so feel free to make an entry even if you have limited splatbook access. Guesses: GhostStepper: Ranger/(Occult Slayer or Witch Hunter) Roland the Crownbreaker: Ranger/Rogue GhostStepper: Cleric/Exorcist of the Silver Flame Roland the Crownbreaker: Favored Soul/Sacred Exorcist GhostStepper: Fighter/Dervish Roland the Crownbreaker: Fighter/Bard/Dervish GhostStepper: Barbarian Roland the Crownbreaker: Paladin Purpose: Well, beyond the challenge of trying to glean if and how class particulars really impacted the characters as I have written them, there's something that I find very interesting that I'd like to explore. That is, the potential flexibility and mutability of what classes represent and how abstracted they are to particular representations. Both that and how any number of particular menchanical representations equate to these particulars are their ramifications. The exact scope of that and the takes that people from above I'm very interested to see in and of themselves. And please feel free to mention if the characters above seem interesting to you, and if they make sense and could be roleplayed well. One of the most illuminating things should then be, assuming the initial take is positive, how each one of the class combination particulars that fit the characters well can - taking this as an example - share in those traits.
Tempest Stormwind 12-16-06, 01:53 PM	You do realize that with mutable flavor (which is a hallmark of good roleplay), guesses like these are practically impossible, right? I've run twisted mutants in my game that transmute their bodies on the fly to strange combinations of stone, gas, and parts of other creatures as they see fit, when mechanically they were just MONKS. Furthermore, you focus descriptions on the roleplay aspect of the game, which is completely independent from the mechanical aspect that you want us to guess. I have played characters from the same class who are dedicated to their friends, who would betray them in an instant, and who saw them as distant business partners. Which class was that? I've also played paladins with no levels in Paladin, simply by accurately playing that role properly. See the point? Besides, this doesn't even BEGIN to delve into the myriad amounts of overlap in the game. Mirra, for instance, works as a sorcerer with Extra Spell (Cure X Wounds) and the Searing Spell feat, a favored soul, or a spellfire wielder of any class, likely with one of the three or four exorcism-related PrCs or domains -- and that's BEFORE you adjust your flavor to fit. I see this as either pointless, or meant to subtly demonstrate the futility of this exercise to those who believe it's perfectly doable. I know you from your posts to be far smarter than most of those people, so I can assume this was posted for the latter reason. If I'm disturbing your exercise with this, I'll remove my post. EDIT: This was written before your edit of the second post.
bitnine 12-16-06, 02:27 PM	I see this as either pointless, or meant to subtly demonstrate the futility of this exercise to those who believe it's perfectly doable. I know you from your posts to be far smarter than most of those people, so I can assume this was posted for the latter reason. If I'm disturbing your exercise with this, I'll remove my post.No, I think that it is a reaction that would naturally arise and it's very good to see it articulated in such a manner so that it can be reasonably addressed in a non-disruptive way. I've edited my second post to mention this in a straightforward fashion. And honestly, I made sure to have the classes in mind before I wrote the above, so I am partially interested in seeing if there really were telltale signs of reflection and, if so, to what extent. So I wouldn't take it as a given that the guess for accuracy portion is an excersize in "guess what I'm thinking" futility. But yes, there is something beyond this. In the end, it would be really neat to see a big list of guesses for each character, showing in part the creativity of people crafting concept representations in ways I probably would have never thought of. It would also be interesting and valuable, I think, in being able to look and say at least two things: "Hey, look at all the different ways that this character could be represented." and "Hey, look at the examples of how all these mechanical and class combinations can indeed represent an interesting and well-played character." (And by the by, my initial edit finished before your post. :p)
Roland the Crownbreaker 12-16-06, 03:04 PM	Hmm... Jaal could also be a ranger/rogue with several ranks in UMD. Or he could just be a straight Rouge with the track feat. Or a ranger or rogue or ranger/rogue with any number of possible prestige classes. The fluff written for Mirra makes me think more of a Favored Soul than a Cleric, and the spells used may be as simple as the basic Flame Strike spell. Possibly prestiged into a sacred exorcist from the complete divine. Illiana seems to me to have levels in bard or skald due to the use of minor magics and war chants. The fighting style could be something as basic as the bounding assualt feat. There has to be something more than fighter/dervish due to the use of some kind of magic. Netan in my mind seems to be a paladin with changes in the flavor, possibly with a level or two of barbarian thrown in, or perhaps not. The concept of "channeling the powers of his ancestors" makes me think of more than the basic barbarian. That, and the mention of be very charismatic.
bitnine 12-17-06, 04:22 PM	There has to be something more than fighter/dervish due to the use of some kind of magic.Well, to be clear, some feats were included in the writeups that I had in mind (potentially along with class variants), so do keep in mind that not every ability mentioned may directly track towards a class granting it.
Always-Late 12-24-06, 02:01 AM	It would ruin the challenge for you to give us a giant list of splatbooks from whence they could possibly come? This is just because my splat access is soreliy limited, and I don't want to bother if the sources are too new or too varied. For example, if I had Tome of Battle I'd check if there's an invisibility-granting maneuver in it. But I don't. Questoin II: Gear counts, or no? [[EDIT]] Question III: Are we to assume that little of this is "fluff?" For example, does white fire mean anything beyond personal preference, and does ancestral prayer actually entail drawing any power or just a possible personal ritual?
bitnine 12-24-06, 02:59 PM	It would ruin the challenge for you to give us a giant list of splatbooks from whence they could possibly come?Done and done, up in the second post. In any event, feel free to posit what the characters could be represented by, even if you lack the splatastrophy of books that are out there.Questoin II: Gear counts, or no?In general, it would probably count. I mean, using a ring of evasion to enter a PrC happens sometimes; or a holy symbol that was an item familiar and granted its wearer divine spells is quite possible. But in this case, I didn't have any magical properties of gear defined when I wrote the descriptions.[[EDIT]] Question III: Are we to assume that little of this is "fluff?"Probably. Speaking as a hypothetical, it is unlikely that Netan's mantra is mechanically dictated for whatever ability is being used - though it's definately something real for the character.