Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bkdubs123 11-18-07, 08:49 PM	Lotus Knight http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n100/bkdubs123/Anima__Kujaku_by_Wen_M.jpg "Anything you can do, I can do better... in time. Given enough time nothing is beyond my grasp. Can you make that claim?" - Ayaka Minoro, Lotus Knight Fluff. You know you want it. The Lotus Knights are contemplative and ponderous individuals who use their intellect to get a read and a feel for situations. These individuals look at combat as a puzzle to be solved using each moment as a clue to victory. Lotus Knights are content to take as much time on a task as needed, never feel pressed for time, and generally get agitated by people who need to get things done quickly. If its worth doing right, its worth taking a while to get done. Combat is no different. Lotus Knights combine spellcasting with swordplay, but in the most unique way. A Lotus Knight has potential to be a stronger swordsman than any Fighter and a more potent spellslinger than any Sorcerer, but this potential takes a while to realize. While a Fighter is always a strong martial presence, a Lotus Knight may seem like a fool for a few rounds. You would do well not to underestimate the Lotus Knight. It may take these Knights a while to get going, but that is only because they are assessing the situation from every possible angle. After a few moments they will have the best solution to any problem. Many Lotus Knights are taught in the Gardens. These havens for intellectuals complete with vast libraries, art museums, and breathtaking vistas train and equip Lotus Knights with everything they need to venture into the world as they try and accomplish something worth remembering. These Gardens are generally recognized political venues as well, and while many of them remain neutral, there are some that throw their hats in the ring so to speak. Many kingdoms defer to the Gardens for advice or for opinions, sometimes even allowing the judgment of Gardens to effect the sovereignty of the various royalty. Karaen Garden is one example of a highly influential and political Garden. Karaen uses its vast stores of wealth to create trade opportunities between nations for its own benefit and has been accused of tyrannical practices before, causing war and undermining the rule of nation-powers. Making a Lotus Knight Abilities: As a Lotus Knight, intelligence is your most important ability score. It effects almost every part of your development not to mention your spellcasting and your capability with weapons and armor. As far as the other ability scores are concerned none of them really shine as any more important than any of the rest. With a d6 for hit dice, you may want to invest some into Constitution for more hit points, but if you want to be a shrewd thinker you may want some wisdom and charisma, whereas if you want to a swift striker you may want some strength and dexterity. Races: Elves' traditionally ponderous nature meshes well with a Lotus Knight's style, but Dwarves and Orcs are often too brash to consider every angle as a Lotus Knight does. Humans make great Lotus Knights, being as versatile in this role as they are in any other. Any race that values intelligence and patience would make a strong Lotus Knight, and the Gardens are certainly not prejudiced at all (at least against such peoples). Alignment: Lotus Knights can be of any alignment, even though some Gardens can be lean strongly toward lawful ends. Since Lotus Knights are based largely on the power of the mind almost every possible viewpoint and ethical argument is expressed within the schools at the Gardens. Starting Gold: 4d4x10 (100gp). Starting Age: As Fighter. The Gardens like to train Lotus Knights from a young age. Playing a Lotus Knight Almost everything you do requires some time to build up. In the first few rounds of combat you might be the weakest member of the party, using every resource at your often limited disposal to merely survive. However given time the power at your disposal can increase far beyond the abilities of your allies. This can be a powerful adventure hook. Allies can protect you for as long as it takes until you can end a conflict or solve a problem in a matter of seconds. Religion Gardens do not typically have any ties to religion and neither do Lotus Knights on the whole, but of course there are exceptions. Karaen Garden is strongly tied to worship of Vecna while there are other Gardens that are affiliated with other deities. Deities finding common worship among Lotus Knights are Azuth, Boccob, Obad-Hai, and Corellon Lorethian. Combat In combat encounters you charge up so to speak, becoming more powerful as the encounter progresses. Since there is no way to speed this process up other than to make the rounds go faster you're going to want to pick up skills and feats that help you survive past the first couple rounds of combat. Improved Initiative is not a feat for a Lotus Knight. Improved Toughness might be, however, as would Combat Expertise. Once you've got an advantage over your enemies your abilities favor a quick decisive stroke to defeat foes as quickly as possible. Remember to pick up options to help that sort of style as well. HD: d6 Alignment: Any Spells per Day Lv BAB Fort Ref Will Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1. +0 +0 +0 +2 Late Bloomer, Focused Will 3 2 2. +1 +0 +0 +3 Arithmancy (One Level) 4 2 3. +1 +1 +1 +3 Secrets in Bloom 5 3 4. +2 +1 +1 +4 5 3 2 5. +2 +1 +1 +4 Petal Dance 1/encounter 5 3 2 6. +3 +2 +2 +5 Secrets in Bloom 5 4 2 7. +3 +2 +2 +5 Intense Focus 6 4 2 8. +4 +2 +2 +6 6 4 3 2 9. +4 +3 +3 +6 Secrets in Bloom 6 4 3 2 10. +5 +3 +3 +7 Arithmancy (Two Levels) 6 5 3 2 11. +5 +3 +3 +7 Lotus Aura 1/day 6 5 3 2 12. +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Secrets in Bloom 6 5 3 3 2 13. +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Petal Dance 2/encounter (Immediate Action 1/day) 6 5 3 3 2 14. +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Tactical Blossoming 6 5 4 3 2 15. +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Secrets in Bloom 6 5 4 3 3 2 16. +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 6 5 4 4 3 2 17. +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Greater Intense Focus 6 5 4 4 3 3 18. +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Secrets in Bloom 6 5 4 4 4 3 2 19. +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Arithmancy (Any Level) 6 5 4 4 4 4 3 20. +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Miracle Growth 6 5 4 4 4 4 4 Class Skills (4+Int modifier, x4 at first level): Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (All) (Taken Separately), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device Weapons and armor proficiency: A Lotus Knight purchases her basic proficiencies at 1st level through Petal Points. A 1st level Lotus Knight has Petal Points equal to twice her intelligence modifier. Once spent, Petal Points are gone forever, and Petal Points cannot be used for anything other than buying basic proficiencies. Before spending any Petal Points a Lotus Knight is proficient with a single simple weapon of her choice but with no armors or shields. Proficient with a single weapon - 1 Point. Proficient with light armor [and Armored Mage (light)] - 2 Points. Proficient with medium armor [and Armored Mage (medium)] (requires proficiency with light armor)- 2 Points. Proficiency with heavy armor [and Armored Mage (heavy)] (requires proficiency with light and medium armor) - 3 Points. Proficient with all simple weapons - 3 Points. Proficient with all martial weapons - 5 Points. Proficient with a single exotic weapon - 3 Points. Proficiency with shields (light and heavy) (+ability to cast while wearing a shield) - 1 Point. Late Bloomer: Every round after the first of an encounter (any reference to encounters in this document means COMBAT encounter, Late Bloomer can function outside of combat, but the Lotus Knight must be able to make Concentration checks and the bonuses accumulate once each minute) a Lotus Knight gains extra power. At the beginning of a Lotus Knight's second turn during an encounter, and at the beginning of each of her turns thereafter she gains a number of Bloom Tokens equal to her class level + her intelligence modifier. A Lotus Knight can never gain more than 10 times her class level in Bloom Tokens in any given encounter from this class feature. These Bloom Tokens can be spent to buy certain bonuses (As outlined below). A Lotus Knight can save Bloom Tokens from previous rounds in order to buy something more expensive in the next round. All bonuses become more expensive each round as you stack them higher and higher. To buy a bonus twice in one round it costs triple the price of buying it once (once + double). To buy it three times in one round costs 7 times what it costs to buy it once (twice + quadruple). To buy it four times in one round costs 15 times the price of buying it once (three times + octuple), and so on (5 times would cost as much as buying four times + 16 times the price of buying it once). At the start of each new round the prices return to default. Bonuses bought through Late Bloomer last until the end of the encounter. As you gain levels as a Lotus Knight you will be able to purchase new, sometimes more powerful, bonuses with your Bloom Tokens. Refer to the table below to determine what types of bonuses you can purchase during your levels and how much they will cost. The number in parenthesis after the Cost entry is the number of times you would like to purchase that bonus during a given round. When you reach 7th or 13th level some bonuses that were previously available to you are subsumed by a new more powerful, more cost effective bonus. Any time a bonus would increase the same thing but at a faster rate you can no longer buy the slower one (example: when you reach 7th level you can no longer buy +1 caster level, you must only buy +2 caster levels). A few of the entries have additional notes marked by asterisks. Levels 1-6 Cost (1) Cost (2) Cost (3) Cost (4) +1 to all attack rolls 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens +1 Caster Level 3 Tokens 9 Tokens 21 Tokens 45 Tokens +1 circumstance bonus to AC 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens +2 temporary HP 1 Token 3 Tokens 7 Tokens 15 Tokens +1 to any save 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens +2 circumstance bonus to any skill 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens +1 to all damage rolls 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens +1 to all opposed checks* 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens An extra move action** 8 Tokens ** ** ** Levels 7-12 Cost (1) Cost (2) Cost (3) Cost (4) +2 Caster Levels 5 Tokens 15 Tokens 35 Tokens 75 Tokens 1 Additional attack per round*** 5 Tokens 15 Tokens 35 Tokens 75 Tokens +1 to DC of spells of specific school 3 Tokens 9 Tokens 21 Tokens 45 Tokens +1 to all saves 3 Tokens 9 Tokens 21 Tokens 45 Tokens DR 1/-- 3 Tokens 9 Tokens 21 Tokens 45 Tokens +2 to overcome spell resistance 3 Tokens 9 Tokens 21 Tokens 45 Tokens An extra standard action** 15 Tokens ** ** ** Levels 13+ Cost (1) Cost (2) Cost (3) Cost (4) +3 Caster Levels 7 Tokens 21 Tokens 49 Tokens 115 Tokens +5 temporary HP 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens Fast Healing 1 4 Tokens 12 Tokens 28 Tokens 50 Tokens +1 on all opposed checks* 2 Tokens 6 Tokens 14 Tokens 30 Tokens +2 to all attack rolls 5 Tokens 15 Tokens 35 Tokens 75 Tokens +2 to all damage rolls 4 Tokens 12 Tokens 28 Tokens 50 Tokens +2 circumstance bonus to AC 4 Tokens 12 Tokens 28 Tokens 50 Tokens * From 1st to 12th level you must choose a type of opposed check to apply this bonus to (ability checks, skill checks, level checks, etc). From 13th level onward you gain this bonus to ALL opposed checks of any type. ** You may only buy this bonus once each round. *** Each time you buy this bonus the attack comes at a cumulative -5 penalty from your highest base attack (-5 the first purchase, -10 the second, -15 the third). Spellcasting: A Lotus Knight learns arcane spells and scribes them into a spellbook exactly as a Wizard does, however she has no caster level and cannot cast spells except when she gains Caster Levels through her Late Bloomer class feature. At any time, so long as the Lotus Knight has the adequate resources she may learn and scribe a spell of any level into her spellbook. Example: A 2nd level Lotus Knight that has been fighting for 4 rounds can have up to three bonus caster levels. This means she can cast up to 2nd level spells and she is treated as a 3rd level arcane caster. In order to cast spells throughout the day a Lotus Knight must still prepare spells for the day and must still get the normal 8 hour rest period. When calculating caster level if a Lotus Knight has any levels of Prestige Classes that give +1 to existing spellcaster class she is treated as always possessing a caster level equivalent to the number of such levels of such prestige classes (Therefore a Lotus Knight 8/Alienist 4 has a caster level of 4 and can cast 2nd level spells before accruing any Late Bloomer bonuses). Focused Will: a Lotus Knight adds her intelligence as well as her wisdom to her will saves. Arithmancy: When a Lotus Knight prepares spells for the day she may sacrifice lower level spell slots for higher level ones, or subtract higher level ones for lower level ones. At first level a Lotus Knight may only use Arithmancy to prepare spell slots one level higher than her maximum level spell slot. At 10th level she may prepare spell slots two levels higher than her maximum level spell slots, and finally at 19th level she can prepare spell slots of any number of levels higher than her maximum level spell slots. This process requires a Lotus Knight to sacrifice lower level spell slots who's spell levels add up to the level of the spell slot she desires to prepare. EXAMPLE: A 12th level Lotus Knight casts 4th level spells. She has five 1st level spell slots, three 2nd level spell slots, three 3rd level spell slots, and two 4th level spell slots. Using Arithmancy she can prepare up to 6th level spells. She could sacrifice all of her 1st level slots and a single 2nd level spell slot to prepare a 6th level slot; she could sacrifice two of her 3rd level slots for the same benefit; she could sacrifice one 4th level slot and a 1st level slot to prepare a 5th level slot; or she could go the other way sacrificing a 4th level spell slot to prepare four additional 1st level slots (to a total of 9). Secrets in Bloom: At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter a Lotus Knight chooses an aspect of herself to fortify with the powers of her intellect, granting her specific bonuses which can aid her in combat. Each time she gains Secrets in Bloom she chooses one of the following abilities: Insightful Strike - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence bonus to all weapon damage rolls. Intelligent Positioning - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her Armor Class. This bonus applies to her Touch AC, but Touch cannot exceed normal AC. The Lotus Knight loses this bonus while she is flatfooted. Thought before Action - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her Reflex saves. Mind over Matter - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her Fortitude saves. Mentalist's Sting - The Lotus Knight adds twice her Intelligence modifier to the hitpoint damage of any spells she casts in the same manner a Warmage does with its Warmage Edge. Weather the Storm - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her hitpoints each time she rolls her hit dice. This does not add retroactively to the Lotus Knight's hitpoints. Pique the Brain - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to all skill and ability checks modified by an ability score of her choice. Pique the Brain can be taken more than once, but only once for each ability score. If the Lotus Knight choose checks modified by her Intelligence she adds twice her Intelligence modifier to those checks. Petal Dance: At 5th level, once per encounter, a Lotus Knight can spend a move action in concentration to lose any bonuses gained through Late Bloomer, losing also any Bloom Tokens spent so far and resetting their total Bloom Tokens spent this encounter to zero. This does not cause an attack of opportunity, however she can choose to use this ability by spending a full-round action. If she does she does not lose Bloom Tokens spent thus far and may "re-spend" them immediately, using all of the normal rules for spending tokens to purchase bonuses. Using this ability as a full-round action does provoke attacks of opportunity. If the Lotus Knight is attacked and dealt damage she must succeed on a Concentration check DC 10 + half her class levels + the damage dealt. If she fails she loses all her Bloom Tokens. At 13th level a Lotus Knight can use this ability twice each encounter if need be, but she can also use it as an immediate action, even on someone else's turn, once each day. Using Petal Dance as an immediate action does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Intense Focus: At 7th level a Lotus Knight gains the ability to take a 10 on any skill check provided she can spend at least 1 minute to perform the check. Lotus Aura: At 11th level, once per day, a Lotus Knight can project an aura out to 20ft. All allies (not including the Lotus Knight) gain the Late Bloomer class feature giving them the ability to accrue Bloom Tokens and buy bonuses just like a Lotus Knight. This aura lasts for only 5 rounds. Tactical Blossoming: At 14th a Lotus Knight learns to take quick inventory of her environment and adapt strategies to it. On every even numbered round of any encounter a Lotus Knight may choose any feat she meets the prerequisites for to learn temporarily. Any feats gained by this ability are lost at the end of the encounter. Greater Intense Focus: At 17th level a Lotus Knight gains the ability to take a 20 on any skill check, although it doubles the standard time to take 20. If you can normally take a 20 with a skill it doesn't take double the time to take a 20. Only double the time for skills that you can't normally take a 20 on. When you take a 20 it is no longer assumed that you've failed many times until you got it right. On the contrary you are just working so slowly and carefully that it takes you a long time to get it right. Note that this still may not be ideal for skill usages where time is of the essence (such as many swim, tumble, or concentration checks). Miracle Growth: At 20th level a Lotus Knight gains even more control over her ability to gain power over time, and in fact is no longer limited by a set number of tokens. By spending a swift action she can gain 5 Bloom Tokens. By spending a move action she can gain 10 Bloom Tokens. By spending a standard action she can gain 20 Bloom Tokens. By spending a full round action she can gain Bloom Tokens equal to her Lotus Knight level + her Intelligence modifier. Tokens gained this way are in addition to any tokens granted to the Lotus Knight by her Late Bloomer class feature and are spent exactly the same way.
vorpo 11-18-07, 10:23 PM	Well, I am here to pick peaches for the market... you know the rest...
Ultima0071 11-18-07, 11:05 PM	Awesome class...sad mine couldn't stand up to a good class. It's all OK though. People have failures now and then, right? I'll try to PEACH it later (maybe in the next couple of days).
bkdubs123 11-19-07, 12:14 AM	Thanks a lot Ultima! Pic, flavor text, and full fluff are now included! I've also edited some of the abilities just slightly. Tell me what you think!
rampant 11-19-07, 12:55 AM	Ok late bloomer gives three benefits? the attack boost, the magic boost and the hp right? so you choose one each round? then as you level you can get increased power per boost and you gradually gain the ability take all three boosts at the same time right? or can a 20th level lotus knight bring down a +9 to attack rolls per round? Other questions: Ok the 1st level lotus points what happens if you later gain more intelligence through level up? do you get more points? what if you don't spend all of them at first level? Maybe you should consider allowing them to cast in armor or purchase that ability with lotus points. Ok the arithmancy ability allows you to gain higher level spells than normally allowed so I take it you can scribe any wizard spell of any level at any time assuming you have the gold, pages, and time right?
bkdubs123 11-19-07, 01:54 AM	Late Bloomer FAQ 1. The only choice you make with the ability is whether to gain the attack bonus or the caster levels. The hp are gained every round independantly of the choice between attack bonus and caster level. 2. Eventually you gain the ability to get both the attack bonus and the extra caster levels at the same time. (Rampant, I have no idea where you got the notion that a 20th level Lotus Knight can gain +9 to attack rolls per round. The best he can do is gain +2 every round indefinitely.) On Petal Points: If you don't spend all of your points at first level you can't do anything with them ever again and nothing more happens. If you later gain an increase to your intelligence modifier you do not gain any more Petal Points. I included the ability to cast in armor with the proficiency (see Armored Mage (***)). Arithmancy lets you prepare and cast higher level spells than normally allowed, but scribing scrolls still follows all the same rules. Oh, you meant into your spellbook. Of course you can scribe any spell of any level at any time. You can do that without arithmancy. The Blade Wizard HD: d10 Saves: Choose one Good, one Medium, one Bad LV Base Atk Bonus Class Features M. Known M. Ready Stances 1. +1 Bonus Feat, Special Ability 5 3 1 2. +2 Bonus Feat 6 3 1 3. +3 Special Ability 8 3 2 4. +4 Array of Tricks 9 4 2 5. +5 Combat Expertise 11 4 3 6. +6/+1 Special Ability 12 4 3 7. +7/+2 Array of Tricks 14 4 4 8. +8/+3 Combat Expertise 15 5 4 9. +9/+4 Special Ability 17 5 5 10. +10/+5 Array of Tricks 18 5 5 11. +11/+6/+1 Combat Expertise 20 5 6 12. +12/+7/+2 Special Ability 21 6 6 13. +13/+8/+3 Array of Tricks 23 6 7 14. +14/+9/+4 Combat Expertise 24 6 7 15. +15/+10/+5 Special Ability 26 6 8 16. +16/+11/+6/+1 Array of Tricks 27 7 8 17. +17/+12/+7/+2 Combat Expertise 29 7 9 18. +18/+13/+8/+3 Special Ability 30 7 9 19. +19/+14/+9/+4 Array of Tricks 31 7 10 20. +20/+15/+10/+5 Combat Expertise 32 8 10 Class Skills (4+Int): All. Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, all armors, and all shields (including Tower Shields). Maneuvers: The Blade Wizard has access to all disciplines. Recovery as Warblade. Bonus Feats: At 1st and 2nd level a Blade Wizard gains a bonus feat. These feats can be any feat the Blade Wizard qualifies for. Special Abilities: At 1st level, 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter a Blade Wizard gains a Special Ability, a feature, chosen from the following list which develops his character: Trapmaster: Blade Wizard gains Trapfinding, can use Disable Device to Open Locks, and gains a +1/four class level bonus to AC and saving throws against traps. Minimum Level 1. Weapon Aptitude: As Warblade feature. At 7th level Blade Wizard can switch the feats as a full round action, a move action at 13th, a swift action at 20th. Minimum Level 1. Sneak Attack +1d6: As Rogue, this special ability can only be taken a maximum of five times. Minimum Level 1. Skirmish +1d6/+1: As Scout, the first time you take this you deal 1d6 damage, the second time you take it you gain +1 AC, each time thereafter you alternate gaining extra damage and extra AC. Minimum Level 1. Furious Resolve: As Furious Counterstrike + Steely Resolve. Can be taken up to five times, improves the delayed damage pool by 5 each time. Minimum Level 1. Fast Movement: As Barbarian, can be taken up to five times. Minimum Level 1. Bardic Music: As Bard, you gain Inspire Courage +1 for free. Each time you take this beyond the first your Inspire Courage ability improves by +1. Can be taken up to five times. Minimum Level 1. Turn/Rebuke Undead: As Cleric. Minimum Level 1. Flurry of Blows: As Monk, but you can flurry with any weapon. Minimum Level 1. Auras: As Marshal, when you first take this you gain 1 Minor Aura and 1 Major Aura. Each time you take this beyond the first you either gain 2 extra Minor Auras or 1 extra Major Aura. Can use Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier, your choice, to determine bonus granted from Minor Auras. Can be taken up to five times, Minimum Level 1. Knight's Challenge: As Knight, you gain Fighting Challenge for free. Each time you take this beyond the first your Fighting Challenge ability improves by +1 and you gain, in order, Test of Mettle, Call to Battle, Daunting Challenge, Bond of Loyalty, and Loyal Beyond Death. Minimum Level 1. Smite 2/day: Choose an alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic); you smite the chosen alignment twice each day adding your Charisma modifier to the attack roll and twice your Charisma modifier to the damage roll. Each time beyond the first that you take this you gain 2 additional smites per day. You can use Smite against a creature not of the chosen alignment but you gain only half the bonuses. Minimum Level 1. AC Bonus: As Swordsage. Minimum Level 1. Battle Clarity: As Warblade. Minimum Level 1. Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian. Minimum Level 1. Spell Stalwart: Add your Charisma modifier to your saving throws against spells, SLAs, and supernatural abilities. Minimum Level 3. Improved Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian, requires Uncanny Dodge, Minimum Level 3. Damage Reduction: You gain DR X/-- equal to 1/2 your Wisdom modifier +1/six class levels. Minimum Level 3. Suggestion: Requires Bardic Music. As Bard, Minimum Level 3. Flawless Stride: As Scout. Minimum Level 3. Evasion: As Monk. Minimum Level 3. Touch of Vitality: As Dragon Shaman. Minimum Level 3. Camouflage: As Ranger. Minimum Level 3. Armor Mastery (Medium): As Knight. You can take this one more time and gain Armor Mastery (Heavy). Minimum Level 3. Natural Armor: Each time you take this increase your Natural Armor bonus by +1. Can be taken five times, Minimum Level 3. Insightful Strike: As Swashbuckler, Minimum Level 3. Battle Ardor: As Warblade, but you also deal extra damage on critical hits equal to 1d6/two points of Intelligence bonus you possess. Minimum Level 3. Mettle: As Hexblade. Minimum Level 6. Acrobatic Charge: As Swashbuckler, Minimum Level 6. Battle Cunning: As Warblade, but also add 1/2 Intelligence bonus to the attack roll while flanking. Minimum Level 6. Divine Health: You gain immunity to all poisons and diseases. Requires Spell Stalwart. Minimum Level 6. Shield Ally: As Knight. You may take this one more time, if you do, you gain Improved Shield Ally. Minimum Level 6. Grant Move Action 1/encounter: As a swift action you allow an ally to take a move action as an immediate action. Can be taken up to three times, each time granting 1 extra use per encounter. Minimum Level 6. Extra Action 2/day: As a swift action you take an extra move or standard action twice each day. Can be taken up to three times, each time gaining two extra uses of this ability per day. Minimum Level 6. Frightful Presence: Whenever you draw your weapon enemies within 30ft must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 class level+ your Charisma modifier) or be shaken for the duration of the encounter. Whenever you attack a foe it must succeed on a Will save of the same DC or become frightened of you for the duration of the encounter. whenever you drop a foe, all enemies within 30ft must succeed on a Will save of the same DC or become panicked for 4d6 rounds. Any foe that succeeds against any of these saves is immune for the duration of the encounter. Minimum Level 9. Aura of Unluck: Enemies within 10ft of you must reroll all d20 rolls and take the worst between the two rolls. Minimum level 9. Battle Skill: As Warblade. Minimum Level 9. Song of Freedom: As Bard. Minimum Level 9. Greater Flurry: You can make two extra attacks during a full attack, or you can make a single extra attack and ignore the -2 penalty to attack rolls. Minimum Level 9. Improved Evasion: As Monk. Minimum Level 9. Weakening Critical: As Swashbuckler, but deal 4 Strength damage. Minimum Level 9. Defensive Roll: As Rogue, but any number of times per day, and against any damage. Minimum Level 9. Opportunist: As Rogue. The attack automatically deals Sneak Attack damage also. Minimum Level 9. Skill Mastery: As Rogue. Minimum Level 9. Array of Tricks: You gain a bonus feat that you qualify for that cannot be chosen by a Fighter from his list of Fighter Bonus Feats. Combat Expertise: You gain a bonus feat that you qualify for drawn from the Fighter's list of Bonus Feats.
rampant 11-19-07, 01:56 AM	Ok i was getting the numbers mixed up sorry, also what about casting with sheilds? also you might want to specify that the armored casting only works for Lotus knight spells.
bkdubs123 11-19-07, 01:58 AM	Shields count as either light or heavy armor. If you have Armored Mage (light) you can cast in light armor and carry a small shield. If you have Armored Mage (heavy) you can cast in heavy armor while carrying a large shield. At least that's how I remember it. If not, I'll have to add that as well.
Leress 11-19-07, 03:31 PM	Shields count as either light or heavy armor. If you have Armored Mage (light) you can cast in light armor and carry a small shield. If you have Armored Mage (heavy) you can cast in heavy armor while carrying a large shield. At least that's how I remember it. If not, I'll have to add that as well. It only applies to armor not shields, I will give my critique on this later.
bkdubs123 11-19-07, 04:03 PM	Thanks Leress, I fixed that slight error. Looking forward to the critique.
vorpo 11-19-07, 06:47 PM	It only applies to armor not shields, I will give my critique on this later. What you said is true to warmage. But, if you look at duskblade, his armored mage (light) specifically said that light armor AND light shield can be used without invoking arcane spell failure. However, armored mage (light) includes shield or not depends on the designer and balance.
bkdubs123 11-19-07, 07:43 PM	Hmm, well, I guess its better then, since you purchase the proficiencies separately that you should get the ability to cast in them separately as well. Still waiting on more critiques. I've found a few bugs that I don't particularly like myself, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say.
bkdubs123 11-19-07, 11:48 PM	Proceeding with a HUGE overhaul of how Late Bloomer works. It needs to be more consistent and smoothly progressed. I have a plan.
Leress 11-20-07, 12:45 AM	What you said is true to warmage. But, if you look at duskblade, his armored mage (light) specifically said that light armor AND light shield can be used without invoking arcane spell failure. However, armored mage (light) includes shield or not depends on the designer and balance. It is still better to specify what is allowed.
bkdubs123 11-20-07, 12:59 AM	Overhaul to Late Bloomer complete. New class features are now needed to fill dead levels. Late Bloomer is now far more smooth in its power progression.
gullas 11-20-07, 09:36 AM	the main thing that I dislike about this class is the bab , but then again if it had more bab it could be overshining the codzilla:P
Leress 11-20-07, 09:45 PM	Lotus Knight [About the flavor] Okay I usually don't say much about flavor since you can just change it but...I have two points. 1. The picture really doesn't say lotus knight since there is not a single lotus in it. 2. Ponderous is not the word you are looking for, since it means heavy or dull. You maybe looking for pondering which means thinking. Okay now onto the crunch... HD: d6 Alignment: Any Okay Spells per Day Lv BAB Fort Ref Will Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1. +0 +0 +0 +2 Late Bloomer, Focused Will 3 2 2. +1 +0 +0 +3 Arithmancy (One Level) 4 2 3. +1 +1 +1 +3 Insightful Strike (Damage rolls) 5 3 4. +2 +1 +1 +4 5 3 2 5. +2 +1 +1 +4 Petal Dance 1/encounter 5 3 2 6. +3 +2 +2 +5 Intelligent Positioning (Armor Class) 5 4 2 7. +3 +2 +2 +5 Intense Focus 6 4 2 8. +4 +2 +2 +6 6 4 3 2 9. +4 +3 +3 +6 Mind over Body (Fortitude) 6 4 3 2 10. +5 +3 +3 +7 Arithmancy (Two Levels) 6 5 3 2 11. +5 +3 +3 +7 Lotus Aura 1/day 6 5 3 2 12. +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Mind over Matter (Reflex) 6 5 3 3 2 13. +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Petal Dance 2/encounter (Immediate Action 1/day) 6 5 3 3 2 14. +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Tactical Blossoming 6 5 4 3 2 15. +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Mentalist's Edge (Spell Damage) 6 5 4 3 3 2 16. +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 6 5 4 4 3 2 17. +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Greater Intense Focus 6 5 4 4 3 3 18. +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Mentalist's Endurance (Hit Points) 6 5 4 4 4 3 2 19. +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Arithmancy (Any Level) 6 5 4 4 4 4 3 20. +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Capstone 6 5 4 4 4 4 4 Alright there seems to be some changes, so let's look closer. Class Skills (4+Int modifier, x4 at first level): Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (All) (Taken Separately), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device Why does this class have disguise, Hide, and Diplomancy? Weapons and armor proficiency: A Lotus Knight purchases her basic proficiencies at 1st level through Petal Points. A 1st level Lotus Knight has Petal Points equal to twice her intelligence modifier. Once spent, Petal Points are gone forever, and Petal Points cannot be used for anything other than buying basic proficiencies. Before spending any Petal Points a Lotus Knight is proficient with a single simple weapon of her choice but with no armors or shields. Proficient with a single weapon - 1 Point. Proficient with light armor [and Armored Mage (light)] - 2 Points. Proficient with medium armor [and Armored Mage (medium)] (requires proficiency with light armor)- 2 Points. Proficiency with heavy armor [and Armored Mage (heavy)] (requires proficiency with light and medium armor) - 3 Points. Proficient with all simple weapons - 3 Points. Proficient with all martial weapons - 5 Points. Proficient with a single exotic weapon - 3 Points. Proficiency with shields (light and heavy) (+ability to cast while wearing a shield) - 1 Point. Okay, just give them which armor and weapon profieciences they get since you are most likely no having too much in anything. It gives a real false sense of choice that really only benefits characters with high intelligence and some level adjustment. Late Bloomer: Every round after the first of an encounter a Lotus Knight gains extra power. At the beginning of a Lotus Knight's second turn during an encounter, and at the beginning of each of her turns thereafter she gains a number of Bloom Tokens equal to her class level + her intelligence modifier. A Lotus Knight can never gain more than 10 times her class level in Bloom Tokens in any given encounter. These Bloom Tokens can be spent to buy certain bonuses (As outlined below). A Lotus Knight can save Bloom Tokens from previous rounds in order to buy something more expensive in the next round. All bonuses become more expensive each round as you stack them higher and higher. To buy a bonus twice in one round it costs double the price of buying it once. To buy it three times in one round costs quadruple the price of buying it once. To buy it four times in one round costs 8 times the price of buying it once, and so on. At the start of each new round the prices return to default. Bonuses bought through Late Bloomer last until the end of the encounter. As you gain levels as a Lotus Knight you will be able to purchase new, sometimes more powerful, bonuses with your Bloom Tokens. At first level you can purchase any of the following bonuses: +1 to all attack rolls - 2 Bloom Tokens +1 Caster Level - 3 Bloom Tokens +1 circumstance bonus to AC - 2 Bloom Tokens +2 temporary hit points - 1 Bloom Tokens +1 to any save - 2 Bloom Tokens +2 circumstance bonus to any skill - 2 Bloom Tokens +1 to all damage rolls - 2 Bloom Tokens +1 to all opposed checks of a specific type (ability, skill or level) - 2 Bloom Tokens An extra move action - 5 Bloom Tokens (You may only buy this bonus once each round.) At 7th level you can purchase the following bonuses in addition to those above: +2 Caster Levels - 5 Bloom Tokens 1 Additional attack per round (-5 from your highest attack bonus) - 5 Bloom Tokens +1 to the DC of all spells you cast from a particular school - 3 Bloom Tokens +1 to all saves - 5 Bloom Tokens DR 1/~ - 3 Bloom Tokens +2 to Caster Level checks to overcome SR - 3 Bloom Tokens An extra standard action - 10 Bloom Tokens (You may only buy this bonus once each round) At 13th level you can purchase the following bonuses in addition to those above: +3 Caster Levels - 7 Bloom Tokens +5 temporary hit points - 2 Bloom Tokens Fast Healing 1 - 4 Bloom Tokens +1 on all opposed checks - 2 Bloom Tokens An extra full-round action - 15 Bloom Tokens (You may only buy this bonus once each round) +2 to all attack rolls - 5 Bloom Tokens +2 to all damage rolls - 4 Bloom Tokens +2 circumstance bonus to AC - 4 Bloom Tokens Okay besides some of the choices are clearly better than others (why get a +1 to DC for a single school when for the same price I can just get +1 caster level?) This is bad because it boils down to this...Your cost grows exponentially while you tokens grow geometrically, that will not work at all. There is also the problem with per encounter (what counts as an encounter when does a separate occur?) That is more the problem with the "encounter" definition then this class though. Spellcasting: A Lotus Knight learns arcane spells and scribes them into a spellbook exactly as a Wizard does, however she has no caster level and cannot cast spells except when she gains Caster Levels through her Late Bloomer class feature. At any time, so long as the Lotus Knight has the adequate resources she may learn and scribe a spell of any level into her spellbook. Example: A 2nd level Lotus Knight that has been fighting for 4 rounds can have up to three bonus caster levels. This means she can cast up to 2nd level spells and she is treated as a 3rd level arcane caster. In order to cast spells throughout the day a Lotus Knight must still prepare spells for the day and must still get the normal 8 hour rest period. When calculating caster level if a Lotus Knight has any levels of Prestige Classes that give +1 to existing spellcaster class she is treated as always possessing a caster level equivalent to the number of such levels of such prestige classes (Therefore a Lotus Knight 8/Alienist 4 has a caster level of 4 and can cast 2nd level spells before accruing any Late Bloomer bonuses). Due to the problem with Late Bloomer, you will most likely never really have a high caster level and will have to result to cheese* to get anything decent for your level. Focused Will: a Lotus Knight adds her intelligence as well as her wisdom to her will saves. Okay but it really starts to push stuff out the save RNG Arithmancy: When a Lotus Knight prepares spells for the day she may sacrifice lower level spell slots for higher level ones, or subtract higher level ones for lower level ones. At first level a Lotus Knight may only use Arithmancy to prepare spell slots one level higher than her maximum level spell slot. At 10th level she may prepare spell slots two levels higher than her maximum level spell slots, and finally at 19th level she can prepare spell slots of any number of levels higher than her maximum level spell slots. This process requires a Lotus Knight to sacrifice lower level spell slots who's spell levels add up to the level of the spell slot she desires to prepare. Example: A 12th level Lotus Knight casts 4th level spells. She has five 1st level spell slots, three 2nd level spell slots, three 3rd level spell slots, and two 4th level spell slots. Using Arithmancy she can prepare up to 6th level spells. She could sacrifice all of her 1st level slots and a single 2nd level spell slot to prepare a 6th level slot; she could sacrifice two of her 3rd level slots for the same benefit; she could sacrifice one 4th level slot and a 1st level slot to prepare a 5th level slot; or she could go the other way sacrificing a 4th level spell slot to prepare four additional 1st level slots (to a total of 9). This is the cheese that I mentioned. You burn you bucket of low level spells to make this craziness happen. You will end up with daily pile of 7-9 spells since the way late bloomer works you will have such a low caster level you will have to do some really complicated maneuvers just to get a few spells a day. Insightful Strike: As Swashbuckler. Okay Petal Dance: At 5th level, once per encounter, a Lotus Knight can spend a move action in concentration to lose any bonuses gained through Late Bloomer, losing also any Bloom Tokens spent so far and resetting their total Bloom Tokens spent this encounter to zero. This does not cause an attack of opportunity, however she can choose to use this ability by spending a full-round action. If she does she does not lose Bloom Tokens spent thus far and may "re-spend" them immediately. Using this ability as a full-round action does provoke attacks of opportunity. If the Lotus Knight is attacked and dealt damage she must succeed on a Concentration check DC 10 + half her class levels + the damage dealt. If she fails she loses all her Bloom Tokens. At 13th level a Lotus Knight can use this ability twice each encounter if need be, but she can also use it as an immediate action, even on someone else's turn, once each day. Using Petal Dance as an immediate action does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This can get beyond crazy when you can use tokens to get extra actions. Intelligent Positioning: At 6th level a Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence bonus as a dodge bonus to her AC. Okay Intense Focus: At 7th level a Lotus Knight gains the ability to take a 10 on any skill check provided she can spend at least 1 minute to perform the check. Okay Mind over Body: At 9th level a Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her fortitude saves. okay Lotus Aura: At 11th level, once per day, a Lotus Knight can project an aura that grants all allies within 20ft the benefits of her Late Bloomer class feature. This aura lasts for only 5 rounds. Okay this is written odd, do the allies get the benefits that are already on the Lotus Knight or are they granted the ability to use Late bloomer. Mind over Matter: At 12th level a Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her reflex saves. Okay Tactical Blossoming: At 14th a Lotus Knight learns to take quick inventory of her environment and adapt strategies to it. On every even numbered round of any encounter a Lotus Knight may choose any feat she meets the prerequisites for to learn temporarily. Any feats gained by this ability are lost at the end of the encounter. Okay keep up with if the round is even or odd just bogs things down a bit Mentalist's Edge: At 15th level a Lotus Knight adds twice her Intelligence modifier in extra damage to any spells she casts that deal hitpoint damage. This works exactly as Warmage's Edge. At this point with the problem of Late Bloomer and Artihmancy this won't even matter that much. Greater Intense Focus: At 17th level a Lotus Knight gains the ability to take a 20 on any skill check, although it doubles the standard time to take 20. If you can normally take a 20 with a skill it doesn't take double the time to take a 20. Only double the time for skills that you can't normally take a 20 on. When you take a 20 it is no longer assumed that you've failed many times until you got it right. On the contrary you are just working so slowly and carefully that it takes you a long time to get it right. Note that this still may not be ideal for skill usages where time is of the essence (such as many swim, tumble, or concentration checks). Okay doesn't really help all that much usless it is for skill you have very few ranks in like your cross class skills or craft Mentalist's Endurance: At 18th level a Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier in addition to her Constitution modifier to her hitpoints per level, and retroactively for each of her HD before this level. A little late for it to make much difference. Capstone: At 20th level a Lotus Knight can rock your socks all day long and never flinch or break a sweat. Well let's get the rest sorted out before thinking about a "capstone" ability. This is messy mathematical class, the math makes this class very clunky to a point of non-playability. I see the concept you are trying to do but that is the whole point of levels, to steadily get better. This class has a sine wave of power throughout a single level. Later bloomer when for being useful half the time to barely useful at all. The only you can really do with this class is cheese out UMD and Diplomacy.
bkdubs123 11-20-07, 11:20 PM	First of all thanks a lot, Leress, for going through that pile of text! I understand that the prices of the bonuses to be bought with Late Bloomer grow exponentially, while the number of tokens per encounter grows geometrically. I worked out the math and it is highly possible to buy enough power per round at level 20 to compete at a reasonable level. I don't think you quite understand how Late Bloomer works... Example, a 12th level Lotus Knight, with 22 Intelligence can spend 120 Bloom Tokens per encounter and gains 18 per round. If she wanted to buy +2 to all attack rolls it would cost her 6 tokens (2 for the first +1, and 4 for the second). She could afford even to buy +3 to all attack rolls at a cost of 14 tokens leaving her with 4 tokens left. With those for tokens she could buy oh... +1 to all damage rolls and +1 AC. She will run out of tokens in approximately 7 rounds. If she bought +3 to attacks, +1 to damage and +1 AC every round for 6 rounds she'd have, on her 7th round, +24 to her attacks, +6 to all damage rolls, and +6 to her AC with 12 Bloom Tokens to spare. If she decided to go a caster route she could buy 4 caster levels every round (being able to cast 2nd level spells on round 2, 4th level spells on round 3, and so on) at the cost of 15 tokens, and +1 to DC of a school of magic each round gaining a caster level of 24 (able to cast 12th level spells) over 6 rounds and +6 to the DC of her spells. In each case it takes her 2 to 3 rounds of charging up to match her allies in power and from then on she becomes more powerful. Yes, it is quite mathematical. This new Token system is much better though than the old system of fixed bonuses that did not scale well with her levels (the Lotus Knight spiked in power every fourish levels and then waned back down in between). I would however appreciate any help to make this system work better and faster. The whole concept of levels is to steadily get better. Well, the Lotus Knight does steadily get better as it gains levels, but it also has its own mechanic that allows it to steadily get better during encounters (combat encounters in the case of Late Bloomer). What's wrong with that (the concept that is)? You mention cheese with Arithmancy? What is this cheese you speak of? If all you do is sacrifice all of your lower level spell slots to prepare higher level slots you are just increasing the amount of time it takes for you to be able to do anything. If you're a 10th level Lotus Knight and you Arithmancy all of your lower level spells into higher level spells (up to 5th) you will have 3 5th level spell slots that day and it will take you, gaining say 15 Bloom Tokens each round) 3 rounds to be able to cast anything (not entirely true, you will still have 1 2nd level spell slot and 6 cantrips). You mention that +1 caster level is always better than +1 DC. That's completely untrue as they are two entirely different things. Caster level has absolutely no effect on save DC. You also mention that Petal Dance can get "beyond crazy." I don't understand the logic there. Perhaps the ability is poorly worded, but the effect is that once or twice each encounter you can either reset yourself to zero Bloom Tokens spent and lose all of the bonuses so far gained, OR by spending a full round and provoking an AoO you can chance getting to respend all of the Tokens you have spent so far (you do not get to keep all of your bonuses and then spend the entire amount of Tokens again) immediately instead of having to wait all those rounds again. As far as Lotus Aura goes the allies do not gain the bonuses you have, instead they gain the class feature Late Bloomer and get to play with it for 5 rounds (gaining and spending Tokens exactly as the Lotus Knight would).
Leress 11-21-07, 02:57 AM	First of all thanks a lot, Leress, for going through that pile of text! I understand that the prices of the bonuses to be bought with Late Bloomer grow exponentially, while the number of tokens per encounter grows geometrically. I worked out the math and it is highly possible to buy enough power per round at level 20 to compete at a reasonable level. I don't think you quite understand how Late Bloomer works... I pretty much go the text of Late Bloomer down. Example, a 12th level Lotus Knight, with 22 Intelligence can spend 120 Bloom Tokens per encounter and gains 18 per round. If she wanted to buy +2 to all attack rolls it would cost her 6 tokens (2 for the first +1, and 4 for the second). She could afford even to buy +3 to all attack rolls at a cost of 14 tokens leaving her with 4 tokens left. With those for tokens she could buy oh... +1 to all damage rolls and +1 AC. She will run out of tokens in approximately 7 rounds. If she bought +3 to attacks, +1 to damage and +1 AC every round for 6 rounds she'd have, on her 7th round, +24 to her attacks, +6 to all damage rolls, and +6 to her AC with 12 Bloom Tokens to spare. If she decided to go a caster route she could buy 4 caster levels every round (being able to cast 2nd level spells on round 2, 4th level spells on round 3, and so on) at the cost of 15 tokens, and +1 to DC of a school of magic each round gaining a caster level of 24 (able to cast 12th level spells) over 6 rounds and +6 to the DC of her spells. In each case it takes her 2 to 3 rounds of charging up to match her allies in power and from then on she becomes more powerful. Actually it would be 12 token per round beyond the first. If your character sinks into one area it will send it outside of the RNG. Yes, it is quite mathematical. This new Token system is much better though than the old system of fixed bonuses that did not scale well with her levels (the Lotus Knight spiked in power every fourish levels and then waned back down in between). I would however appreciate any help to make this system work better and faster. Well I would say dump it all together and instead make bonuses scale with level then. Making it complicated in the math area makes that class harder to play. It's bad enough that this class has spells which would slow play as it is now they must choose how their character grow for the "encounter". The whole concept of levels is to steadily get better. Well, the Lotus Knight does steadily get better as it gains levels, but it also has its own mechanic that allows it to steadily get better during encounters (combat encounters in the case of Late Bloomer). What's wrong with that (the concept that is)? but it's not steadily get better it goes up and after the "encounter" it goes down. You mention cheese with Arithmancy? What is this cheese you speak of? If all you do is sacrifice all of your lower level spell slots to prepare higher level slots you are just increasing the amount of time it takes for you to be able to do anything. If you're a 10th level Lotus Knight and you Arithmancy all of your lower level spells into higher level spells (up to 5th) you will have 3 5th level spell slots that day and it will take you, gaining say 15 Bloom Tokens each round) 3 rounds to be able to cast anything (not entirely true, you will still have 1 2nd level spell slot and 6 cantrips). Umm...This all revolves on what an "encounter" is. See it is so vague that it won't matter what I sacrifice I will always be able to cast any spell with a caster level of over a large amount. You mention that +1 caster level is always better than +1 DC. That's completely untrue as they are two entirely different things. Caster level has absolutely no effect on save DC. My mistake You also mention that Petal Dance can get "beyond crazy." I don't understand the logic there. Perhaps the ability is poorly worded, but the effect is that once or twice each encounter you can either reset yourself to zero Bloom Tokens spent and lose all of the bonuses so far gained, OR by spending a full round and provoking an AoO you can chance getting to respend all of the Tokens you have spent so far (you do not get to keep all of your bonuses and then spend the entire amount of Tokens again) immediately instead of having to wait all those rounds again. See it doesn't say that it just says token spent nothing about the bonuses they granted. You can get double the benefit and with getting extra actions you don't really lose a round. As far as Lotus Aura goes the allies do not gain the bonuses you have, instead they gain the class feature Late Bloomer and get to play with it for 5 rounds (gaining and spending Tokens exactly as the Lotus Knight would). Then just put that there instead. This class core mechanical is too ripe for abuse. Skill cheese is too easy with Diplomacy. Complicated math is bad for class design. I'm saying this is using Calculus or anything like that but now every battle the player must figure out how many points I have left what cost how much and the like. Simple is better when it comes to class making
bkdubs123 11-21-07, 03:42 AM	Actually it would be 12 token per round beyond the first. If your character sinks into one area it will send it outside of the RNG. Actually it would be 18 tokens per round. Level + Int bonus. Well I would say dump it all together and instead make bonuses scale with level then. Making it complicated in the math area makes that class harder to play. It's bad enough that this class has spells which would slow play as it is now they must choose how their character grow for the "encounter". One thing I need to do for this class is provide strict numeric costs for the bonuses granted from Late Bloomer. A Chart that shows which abilities you can buy at which levels and how much they cost as the bonus gets higher. This should considerably lower the math involved. Umm...This all revolves on what an "encounter" is. See it is so vague that it won't matter what I sacrifice I will always be able to cast any spell with a caster level of over a large amount. That's a simple clarification. An encounter as defined by this class is always combat (since that's the only time there are rounds to measure). See it doesn't say that it just says token spent nothing about the bonuses they granted. You can get double the benefit and with getting extra actions you don't really lose a round. Actually, it does. Read it again. It's right at the beginning. Then just put that there instead. Yep, I will. This class core mechanical is too ripe for abuse. Skill cheese is too easy with Diplomacy. Complicated math is bad for class design. I'm saying this is using Calculus or anything like that but now every battle the player must figure out how many points I have left what cost how much and the like. Skill cheese is always too easy with diplomacy. What makes that a problem with this class? If I implement the chart with plainly spelled out costs for all bonuses (with respect to level) the math will be minimal. The only thing this class really would ask a player to do then is to bring the chart with them to play and to record how many rounds and Bloom Tokens they have and have spent. Not really a big deal. I understand that simple is always better when it comes to class making, its just that this idea is a bit complex. Growing in power during combat encounters is a bit involved, but I don't think that the idea should be tossed aside so easily. I'll playtest it soon to see how it runs in a real game (see if its waaay too slow to work properly). Thanks again for the comments.
jradd777 11-22-07, 12:55 PM	What's RNG?
Leress 11-25-07, 07:36 PM	What's RNG? Random Number Generator I'm getting an idea of how to make this class more sensible while keeping in the "growth in power" concept of it.
Kyuketsukiouji 11-27-07, 08:05 AM	Well, the problem I can see, apart from the unweildy math, is the what you yourself outlined in your example post. +24 bab at level 12? Am I the only one who thinks that's ridiculous? As it stands, it seems that you allow the bonuses to stack when bought in different rounds, which means I can buy +1 for 6 rounds for 6 rounds and end up with +6. That might not sound too hot, but if I buy +3 or +4 over 5-6 rounds, I have +30 bab. At that point, I'm hitting everything in sight with every attack I make, and since I seem to be able to buy extra attacks, every round, with no maximum listed, well, that's starting to look crazy. Having 6-7 attacks per round at +30 bab is pretty dangerous-sounding.
bkdubs123 11-27-07, 01:37 PM	Well, the problem I can see, apart from the unweildy math, is the what you yourself outlined in your example post. +24 bab at level 12? Am I the only one who thinks that's ridiculous? As it stands, it seems that you allow the bonuses to stack when bought in different rounds, which means I can buy +1 for 6 rounds for 6 rounds and end up with +6. That might not sound too hot, but if I buy +3 or +4 over 5-6 rounds, I have +30 bab. After sucking for the first three rounds of combat? I think its a fair trade off. How often do encounters last much longer than 6 or 7 rounds anyway? DMing for this class you have some control over how long or short an encounter is going to be. The PCs certainly don't have any control whatsoever. DMs would have to give the Lotus Knight some chances to shine, but also she shouldn't run the show all day. At that point, I'm hitting everything in sight with every attack I make, and since I seem to be able to buy extra attacks, every round, with no maximum listed, well, that's starting to look crazy. Having 6-7 attacks per round at +30 bab is pretty dangerous-sounding. There's no way you'd ever be able to afford having 6-7 attacks per round at +30 bab. And certainly NOT at 12th level. Let's assume that at level 20 you're getting even 40 Bloom Tokens per round. It would cost 15 tokens to get two extra attacks. Your BAB is +10 and so to get it up to +20 would take three rounds buying +4 each round. You could afford to continue adding 2 attacks per round and 4 attack bonus every round and still have 10 points left (this is of course assuming you have 40 Intelligence) that you could use to purchase +4 to damage and +1 AC per round, I guess. However at this rate you'll only have 5 rounds to spend tokens on since you can only spend 200 per encounter anyway, so on that 5th round (and any rounds thereafter) you'll have 12 attacks at +20 damage each with a +30 attack bonus. You've still got a d6 HD and you've spent absolutely no tokens on mitigating the problem with your low HD. A Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue/Swashbuckler with Daring Outlaw does just about as much damage when he sneak attacks and gets 8 attacks per round from round 1. You'd be much more likely to have something like 30-32 intelligence at 20th level making the 12 attacks at +30 tactic even less attractive because at that point you wouldn't be able to spend tokens on anything else. I've done the math. The math is pretty balanced but yes it is unwieldy. Anyway, thanks for the reply man, glad to see someone else interested if only somewhat. Waiting to hear what Leress has to say for his idea. :D
bkdubs123 11-27-07, 02:17 PM	Okay, I've added the table which shows costs for the bonuses as you continue buying them during a round. The costs increase only as you buy one bonus more than once in a round. On your next round the costs reset to the Cost (1) value no matter how many times you've already bought a specific bonus. Also want to remove Mentalist's Endurance, but not sure what to replace it with. Suggestions are welcome.
Leress 11-28-07, 07:08 PM	This is what I have so far, and I haven't play tested this yet so... *most likely will be edited later* Lotus Knight Alignment: Any Races: any Starting Gold: 5d4x10 (125 gp) Starting age: as sorcerer Hit Die: d6 Class Skills: Balance, Craft, Climb, Concentration, Jump, Profession, Listen, Knowledge(all), Search, Spellcraft, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope, Use Magic Device, Sense Motive, Decipher Script. Skills/Level: 4+int BAB: Poor (1/2), Saves: Fort: Poor; Reflex: Poor; Will: Good Level, Benefit 1 Spellcasting, Lotus Petal 2 3 4 Black Lotus 5 6 Lotus Bloom 7 8 9 Lotus Guardian 10 11 12 Lotus Vale 13 14 Skill Mastery 15 16 17 18 Intense Focus 19 20 All of the following are Class Features of the Lotus Knight class: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Lotus Knights are proficient with all simple weapons and martial weapons. Lotus Knights are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind. Spellcasting: The Lotus Knight is an Arcane Spellcaster with the same spells per day and spells known progression as a sorcerer, except that he gains no more than four spell slots per level. A Lotus Knight's spells known may be chosen from the Sorcerer/Wizard list, and must be from the school of Transmutation and also spells that are Universal. To cast a Lotus Knight spell, she must have an Intelligence at least equal to 10 + the Spell level. The DC of the Assassin's spells is Intelligence based and the bonus spells are Intelligence based. Lotus Knights meditate for their spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour in meditation. While meditating, the lotus knight decides which spells to prepare Lotus Petal (EX): A lotus knight may us his store energy to increase their combat ability. At the beginning of a Lotus Knight's second or later round during an encounter, he may tap into this energy and gain a bonus to his base attack bonus equal to 1/2 class level +1 (rounded up) [this effect may give you additional attacks] This doesn't stack with other effects that grant bonuses to his base attack bonus (such as Tenser's Transformation). This may be used a number of rounds equal to his Constitution Modifier +3 per day. Black Lotus (Su): At 4th level a Lotus Knight can channel stored spell energy into increasing his spell effectiveness. As a move action he can "lose" any prepared spell that in order to increase the caster level and DC of the next spell he casts by the level of the "lost" spell. Lotus Guardian (Su): At 9th level, a lotus knights gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. As well as a deflection bonus to AC Intense Focus (Ex): A 18th level a lotus knight may take an extra Swift Action each round. Lotus Bloom (ex): Activating Lotus Petal is a move action. Also the number of rounds per day is (1/2 level + Con mod +4) Lotus Vale (ex): Activating Lotus Petal is a swift action. Also the number of rounds per day is (level + Con mod + 5) Skill Mastery (Ex): At 14th level, a Lotus Knight is able to take 10 on any Balance, Jump, Climb and Tumble
klode_me 05-06-08, 06:12 AM	So if you pay for the late bloomer ability on a round-by-round basis it costs less than paying it high in one round, right? Also, Weather the Storm - The Lotus Knight adds her Intelligence modifier to her hitpoints each time she rolls her hit dice. Does this also affect previous HDs? Cheers klode
bkdubs123 05-07-08, 02:39 AM	Round-by-round is cheaper, yes. You pay more to gain higher bonuses faster. Weather the Storm does NOT effect previous HDs.