Black Guards mount ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Black Guards mount ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HeavenShallBurn
03-02-04, 07:40 AM Hi,
I've got a little discussion with my DM.
The Description of the Black guards fiendish servant is not as explicit in the Point "Servant" as the one of the Paladin.

The Blackguard’s Fiendish Servant
Upon or after reaching 5th level, a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him. The blackguard’s servant further gains HD and special abilities based on the blackguard’s character level (see the table below).
A blackguard may have only one fiendish servant at a time.
Should the blackguard’s servant die, he may call for another one after a year and a day. The new fiendish servant has all the accumulated abilities due a servant of the blackguard’s current level.

Due to the fact that a Black Guard is the exact opposite of a Paladin can this be a Heavy Warhorse (mount) `?

What do you think about this ?
Thermanshs
03-02-04, 09:53 AM If the blackguard is the opposite of the paladin then what so? Is he prohibited from choosing horse companions because his counterpart uses one too? A horse may be as dark as the blackguard himself while a paladin's warhorse resides in the celestial realms
HeavenShallBurn
03-02-04, 03:44 PM but why does the description say
"a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him"
a warhorse isn't in this list.
Magius
03-02-04, 04:01 PM "a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him"

a warhorse isn't in this list.

No offense meant, but you need glasses.
Krelios
03-02-04, 04:03 PM Magius, his point was the a "Warhorse" is different from a "Horse." Whether or not it is allowed is up to the DM, but as written only a Horse, Riding or Horse, Light or Horse, Heavy could be allowed, not a Warhorse, Light or Warhorse, Heavy.
Eldren
03-02-04, 04:12 PM This becomes another one of those "spirit of the rules" vs. "letter of the rules" arguments. What was said, and what was meant.

It doesn't say you can't use duplicates created with Simulacrum as XP wells for item crafting, so you don't have to spend your own XP (other than for casting Simulacrum), but most Dungeon Masters I know don't allow this usage of the spell, because it obviously violates the intent of the spell's design. Being creative in the application of spells is neat, and should be encouraged, but creativity opens a player up to Dungeon Master interpretation, what I call "DM Fiat".

It says "horse", but doesn't get more specific than that. A convincing argument could be made, then, for any creature to be summoned that has the phrase "horse" in its name, which includes riding horses and warhorses.

The Blackguard is very similar to the traditional concept of the Anti-Paladin, but I don't know if they really are or not. If they were, I have a feeling WotC, in their continuous attempts to make 3rd Edition hearken back to 1st Edition, would have likely just called it an Antipaladin, unless there were some manner of copyright issues from Gary Gygax. As far as I'm aware, there weren't; when Wizards of the Coast purchased TSR, they acquired all their existing copyrights and trademarks as well.

This being said, functionally the Blackguard is an Antipaladin, so I see no reason, in their attempts to be exact opposites of Paladins, why they couldn't have a fiendish warhorse. Thing about it is, keep in mind that while it might be headquartered in the celestial realms, a Paladin's mount is not a celestial creature, as per the template from the Monster Manual. The only way I've seen for them to do that is to take the "Celestial Mount" feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Otherwise, they have to make do with a standard mount, or one of the variant mounts from Defenders of the Faith (my Paladin, for instance, has a pegasus).

Likewise with the Blackguard, then. They can likely have an infernal companion of some sort who might be a horse, and it would obviously be of the same Evil alignment as they are, but if it's to become a legitimately fiendish warhorse, then they'd likely have to come up with some variant to the "Celestial Mount" feat for the Book of Vile Darkness, perhaps a Vile feat called "Infernal Mount" or "Fiendish Mount".
Magius
03-02-04, 04:14 PM Well, I think the reason 'warhorse' was not chosen is because of the templates that can be added to horse. That equalizes it. As for the actual posed question, I think a warhorse would be within the parameters of the familiar.

(I apologize for my last post)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HeavenShallBurn 03-02-04, 07:40 AM	Hi, I've got a little discussion with my DM. The Description of the Black guards fiendish servant is not as explicit in the Point "Servant" as the one of the Paladin. The Blackguard’s Fiendish Servant Upon or after reaching 5th level, a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him. The blackguard’s servant further gains HD and special abilities based on the blackguard’s character level (see the table below). A blackguard may have only one fiendish servant at a time. Should the blackguard’s servant die, he may call for another one after a year and a day. The new fiendish servant has all the accumulated abilities due a servant of the blackguard’s current level. Due to the fact that a Black Guard is the exact opposite of a Paladin can this be a Heavy Warhorse (mount) `? What do you think about this ?
Thermanshs 03-02-04, 09:53 AM	If the blackguard is the opposite of the paladin then what so? Is he prohibited from choosing horse companions because his counterpart uses one too? A horse may be as dark as the blackguard himself while a paladin's warhorse resides in the celestial realms
HeavenShallBurn 03-02-04, 03:44 PM	but why does the description say "a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him" a warhorse isn't in this list.
Magius 03-02-04, 04:01 PM	"a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him" a warhorse isn't in this list. No offense meant, but you need glasses.
Krelios 03-02-04, 04:03 PM	Magius, his point was the a "Warhorse" is different from a "Horse." Whether or not it is allowed is up to the DM, but as written only a Horse, Riding or Horse, Light or Horse, Heavy could be allowed, not a Warhorse, Light or Warhorse, Heavy.
Eldren 03-02-04, 04:12 PM	This becomes another one of those "spirit of the rules" vs. "letter of the rules" arguments. What was said, and what was meant. It doesn't say you can't use duplicates created with Simulacrum as XP wells for item crafting, so you don't have to spend your own XP (other than for casting Simulacrum), but most Dungeon Masters I know don't allow this usage of the spell, because it obviously violates the intent of the spell's design. Being creative in the application of spells is neat, and should be encouraged, but creativity opens a player up to Dungeon Master interpretation, what I call "DM Fiat". It says "horse", but doesn't get more specific than that. A convincing argument could be made, then, for any creature to be summoned that has the phrase "horse" in its name, which includes riding horses and warhorses. The Blackguard is very similar to the traditional concept of the Anti-Paladin, but I don't know if they really are or not. If they were, I have a feeling WotC, in their continuous attempts to make 3rd Edition hearken back to 1st Edition, would have likely just called it an Antipaladin, unless there were some manner of copyright issues from Gary Gygax. As far as I'm aware, there weren't; when Wizards of the Coast purchased TSR, they acquired all their existing copyrights and trademarks as well. This being said, functionally the Blackguard is an Antipaladin, so I see no reason, in their attempts to be exact opposites of Paladins, why they couldn't have a fiendish warhorse. Thing about it is, keep in mind that while it might be headquartered in the celestial realms, a Paladin's mount is not a celestial creature, as per the template from the Monster Manual. The only way I've seen for them to do that is to take the "Celestial Mount" feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Otherwise, they have to make do with a standard mount, or one of the variant mounts from Defenders of the Faith (my Paladin, for instance, has a pegasus). Likewise with the Blackguard, then. They can likely have an infernal companion of some sort who might be a horse, and it would obviously be of the same Evil alignment as they are, but if it's to become a legitimately fiendish warhorse, then they'd likely have to come up with some variant to the "Celestial Mount" feat for the Book of Vile Darkness, perhaps a Vile feat called "Infernal Mount" or "Fiendish Mount".
Magius 03-02-04, 04:14 PM	Well, I think the reason 'warhorse' was not chosen is because of the templates that can be added to horse. That equalizes it. As for the actual posed question, I think a warhorse would be within the parameters of the familiar. (I apologize for my last post)