Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rogue Shadows 03-08-08, 01:37 PM	The follows are my takes on making Magic: The Gathering-style Black Mage. It's meant to be a basic class, but it's only 10 levels long due to personal play style (namely, I rarely, if ever, play after level 10, or run campaigns after level 10). I've actually made a class for each color of magic, but only have time to post this one for now. Anyway. BLACK MAGE “Home is where you can find a decent graveyard and strangers can disappear without awkward questions.” - Braids, Cabal Minion. Black, the symbol of death and despair, can be characterized as morbid, impatient, incorporeal, and stagnant. It is the color of pollution and pestilent, festering swamps. Those who show fondness for this color are not the type to show off. They will impress those worthy of their time by their real substance and weight. Black mages lean on the side of mystery and darkness but can be mighty and dignified. Black is a stark color populated by mages who hold high the beacon of nothingness, but those who favor this color abhor inevitability. They would hold to the present forever if they could, and they will probably try. Black is for those who hide their darker sides behind an air of sophistication, for those who lurk in alleyways and dark corners, and for those willing to pay the price of greatness. Making a Black Mage Black mages are not often called Necromancers for nothing. Their spells all focus around dying, death, and the dead. From overt displays of power, such as summoning skeletal hordes, to more subtle effects such as inflicting disease and poison, Black is a very powerful color. That power, however, comes at a price. Many black spells require sacrifice of blood or even whole lives, and oftimes the caster’s own sanity. Abilities: Intelligence is most important to the Black mage, since the number of spells he or she knows is based on intelligence. Necromancers can also benefit from high Constitutions, as the extra hit points will come in handy when time comes to shed some blood for the cause. Few black mages are concerned with social nuances, but many have high Charismas anyway as their ability to rebuke and command undead is based on this. Races: Humans are the most common Necromancers. They want power, now, and damn whoever has to be hurt along the way. Elves can also make frighteningly good Necromancers, given their long lives that allow them to learn this magic’s darkest secrets. Obviously, many intelligent undead are often Black mages. Alignment: Few Necromancers can be good. Black, as a color, is motivated primarily by self-interest. If others benefit, the Black mage doesn’t care, as long as that benefit doesn’t put them over their own heads. Many are outright evil, but some are simply neutral, remaining by themselves and with their studies. Most Necromancers are Neutral Evil. Starting Gold: 3d4 x 10 (75 gp) Starting Age: As a Cleric Class Features Your class features represent a growing power over life, over death, and over the space between. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Outright combat is not your forte, but nor are you completely helpless. You are proficient with all simple weapons, but not with armor or shields. Last Gasp (Sp): A spell so basic you do not even require mana to use it, you may use last gasp spell at will. This usage of last gasp does not count against your spells per turn. Terrain Familiarity: As long as you are in a swamp, bog, fen, or some other type of wetland or body of stagnant water, you get a +1 bonus to all caster level checks, and a +2 bonus on Will saves. Further, you gain one additional Black mana while you are at such a location, though if you leave it this extra mana disappears. Spells: You start the game knowing three spells. You may gain bonus spells based on your Intelligence score, as outlined in the Player’s Handbook. Unlike other spellcasters, Mages are not restricted in the spells that they can learn. In other words, a Mage may learn any spell on the Mage spell list, regardless of his level or that spell’s color. However, a Mage has access only to mana of his class’ color. Thus, while a given Black mage may learn a Blue spell, he can’t cast it unless he has a way to generate Blue mana, such as by an artifact that allows him to convert mana, or by multiclassing as a Blue mage. Mages may cast any spell they know at any time, provided they have enough mana to power it (see below). They do not prepare spells ahead of time and do not require spellbooks. At each level after 1st, you learn an additional spell. Mages may also learn spells by memorizing them from spellbooks or some other such source material. Memorizing a spell from a spellbook or other source requires one hour of uninterrupted study for each mana in the spell’s converted mana cost. For example, a spell has a converted mana cost of 3, then it takes three hours. At the end of the studying, the Mage makes a Spellcraft check, with the DC being 10 + the spell’s converted mana cost. An additional +2 is added on to this if the spell is from an allied color, or a +4 is added if it is from an enemy color. If the mage succeeds, he has memorized that spell. If he fails, then he must begin researching again. A Mage may only know 2 + their total class levels in all Mage classes (black, blue, green, red, and white) spells at any one time. So, for example, a 3rd level Black mage/2nd level Red mage may know up to seven spells. If a Mage attempts to memorize more spells then this, the attempt automatically fails. A Mage may 'forget' a spell that they know, so as to allow the memorizing of new spells, by spending 24 hours in meditation, after which time they do not remember how to cast the spell. A mage may only "forget" one spell per day, so a mage who wishes to forget 3 spells, for example, must spend three days in meditation. During this period of meditation, they may eat, sleep, and perform other simple tasks, but they cannot cast spells. The save DC to resist a spell’s effects is 10 + the spell’s converted mana cost + the Necromancer’s Intelligence modifier. Mana: Mana is the essence of magic, the force that allows mages to do tremendous things. Black mages call upon black mana. Black mana is dark and corrupt, though it is not innately evil. It represents the darker side of things. It smells of nightshade and feels soft and ooze-like, or so black mages say. You access mana through your mana pool, the base size of which is determined by your level. Whenever you cast a spell, you draw mana from your mana pool to power it. If your mana pool is empty, you can’t cast any spells until it is replenished. Drawing mana from your mana pool is known as tapping that mana. You start the game with a single black mana. At second level, you gain a second Black mana. You then proceed to gain black mana as outlined on Table 1-1: The Black Mage. Black mana can be tapped to pay for spells that require Black mana, or tapped to pay the colorless mana requirement of any spell or ability. After you have spent mana, your mana pool fully replenishes at the beginning of the next round. However, certain spells or conditions, such as being affected by fatigue or exhaustion, can prevent this. Rebuke/Command Undead (Su): Necromancers are not called such by chance. They have an innate connection to undead beings, and can rebuke or command them at will. A Black mage may attempt to rebuke undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. A Black mage with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on rebuking checks against undead. Certain undead beings, such as vampires and mummies, may be resistant to attempts to rebuke or command them. Regenerate (Su): You gain a Regenerate ability, which allows you to heal yourself. Using Regenerate requires 1B to activate and can be done as a swift action. Once you do, you instantly heal one hit point per class level. You may use Regenerate only once per day. Table 1-1: The Black Mage Ht Die: d6 Base Fort Ref Will Available Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special Mana 1st +0 +1 +0 +2 Last Gasp, Terrain B Familiarity 2nd +1 +2 +0 +3 BB 3rd +1 +2 +1 +3 Rebuke Undead BB 4th +2 +2 +1 +4 BBB 5th +2 +3 +1 +4 BBB 6th +3 +3 +2 +5 BBBB 7th +3 +4 +2 +5 Regenerate BBBB 8th +4 +4 +2 +6 BBBBB 9th +4 +4 +3 +6 BBBBB 10th +5 +5 +3 +7 BBBBBB Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier, x4 at 1st level. Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Rogue Shadows 03-08-08, 01:38 PM	MAGES AND SPELLS Mages cast arcane spells, drawing upon the memories of the lands that they grew up in to fuel them. Like Sorcerers and Bards, they do not need to prepare their spells beforehand - a Mage can simply cast any spell he knows at any time, provided he has the mana. Like wizards, however, a Mage may learn new spells by memorizing them from spellbooks, ancient texts, scrolls, and so on. Mages do not have spell books; they simply have an innate ability to memorize spells. Memorizing a spell from a spellbook or other source requires one hour of uninterrupted study for each mana in the spell’s converted mana cost. For example, a spell has a converted mana cost of 3, then it takes three hours. At the end of the studying, the mage makes a Spellcraft check, with the DC being 10 + the spell’s converted mana cost. An additional +2 is added on to this if the spell is from an allied school, or a +4 is added if it is from an enemy school. If the mage succeeds, he has memorized that spell. If he fails, then he must begin researching again. Mage spellcasting is based on either Intelligence (Black and Blue), Wisdom (Green and White), or Charisma (Red). Spontaneous Casting: A Mage can cast any spell he knows without preparing it beforehand, in the same manner as a Sorcerer. Material Components: Mage spells do not usually involve material components, so this line is omitted from the spells’ statistics. If any components are required, it will be outlined in the spell’s description. Recent Casting: Mages may cast any number of spells per day, provided they have the mana to power it. Mana pools replenish themselves at the beginning of each turn. This means that mages can cast a truly tremendous number of spells per day. Spells Per Turn: A Mage may only cast any one spell once per turn. For example, a White mage may cast healing salve only once per turn, even if he has enough White mana to fuel many more. Adding New Spells to a Mage’s Repertoire: Mages gain new spells by being taught them by other Mages, or by learning them from ancient tomes. However, a Mage may only ever know 2 + their total class levels in all Mage classes (black, blue, green, red, and white) spells at any one time. Allied & Enemy Colors: Magic is divided into five colors. Each color has two allied colors, and two enemy colors. In general, these differences are only relevant in terms of memorizing new spells and useful for the grouping of spells. Allied colors are colors that share similar temperaments and may even contain very similar spells. Enemy colors have vastly different approaches to magic and vastly different spells. A helpful table is provided below that lists the allied and enemy colors of each color of magic. Table 1-2: Allied & Enemy Colors Allied Enemy Color Colors Colors Black Blue, Red Green, White Blue Black, White Green, Red Green Red, White Black, Blue Red Black, Green Blue, White White Blue, Green Black, Red Spell Types: Mage spells come in three types: Instants, Sorceries, and Enchantments. Spell type generally describe either the spell’s duration, or the spell’s casting time. Instants are very quick to cast - they are universally immediate actions. In fact, you may cast an Instant on a turn that isn’t your own. Instants generally have immediate, short-term effects, though their effects may be less than impressive. A subtype of instants, known as Interrupts, allow for countering spells. Almost all Interrupts are blue. Sorceries are a basic sort of spell. Sorceries generally take a Standard action to cast, and so can only be cast on your turn. They tend to have more potent effects that Instants. Enchantments come in two subtypes: Auras and Global Enchantments. Auras have a specific target, while Global Enchantments have multiple targets or an area of effect. Enchantments tend to take full-round actions to cast, but their effects are generally worth it and will last for many rounds or minutes. BLACK SPELLS The source of black mana is the darkness and rot of the swamp. Black spells represent death, decay, and madness. They can be dangerous: many of them hurt you when you use them, but they’ll hurt your enemies more. Many black spells target an opponent’s ability scores rather than battering at their hit points. Others cause unnatural fear or madness. Black mages delight in the disrupting and terrorizing their enemies. Black magic can make you strong - if you’re willing to pay the price. Darkness Instant Mana Cost: B Casting Time: Swift action Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels) Area: 15-foot-radius sphere centered on designated area. Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: No Spell Resistance: No Inky blackness spreads from the spot you indicated, too dark to see anything in. Darkness creates a sphere of absolute blackness - so absolute that even creatures with darkvision can’t see in it. Any being within the radius of the darkness spell has total concealment, and all characters within its radius act as though blind. Leaving the darkness ends this effect, of course. Darkness cannot be cast upon an object and then moved around; the sphere, once created, is stationary. Duress Sorcery Mana Cost: B Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels) Duration: 1 round. Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes Your peer into an opponent’s mind and rob him of a memory. Duress is a powerful spell more because of its low cost compared to what it can do. When you cast Duress, you instantly know what spells your opponent knows. You can’t cast them, but you know their effects. More poignantly, you may choose a single spell on that list. For the spell’s duration, the targeted mage cannot cast that spell - they simply forget that they even know it. A target cannot be effected my duress if he is already subject to it. Hand of Death Sorcery Mana Cost: 2B Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Touch Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes Your hand takes on an eerie glow as you reach out towards your foe The hand of death spell is a potent one that can outright kill frailer creatures and seriously harm even stronger ones. Once cast, you must succeed at a melee touch attack on your target. If you miss, then the spell is wasted. If you hit, then you deal 1d4 points of Constitution damage per two caster levels to your target, to a maximum of 5d4 at 10th level. Hand of death doesn’t work on targets that lack a Constitution score, such as undead and constructs. Hex Sorcery Mana Cost: 4BB Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels) Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes Coils of black mana lash out from you and into six targets, draining them of life. Hex is a potent spell, but very dangerous to cast. When it is cast, you choose beings within range of the spell. This can include undead and constructs, but you must choose six or none at all, meaning you may have to target yourself or your allies. Hex then reduces each being targeted to one-quarter of his remaining hit points, rounded down. Hex cannot outright kill a being; if they would be reduced to 0 or less hit points, they are instead reduced to 1. Hideous Laughter Instant Mana Cost: 2BB Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Self Area: A circle with a 30-foot-radius, centered on the caster. Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You let out a dreadful, cackling laughter that breaks the spirit Hideous laughter gives all creatures in its radius a -4 to Intelligence for its duration. This lowers such things as Sorcerer and Necromancer caster level checks, certain skill checks, and the DCs to resist the spells cast by Black mages and Blue mages. You are not immune to the effects of your own hideous laughter, so here’s hoping that you’ve got a good Will save. Hymn to Tourach Sorcery Mana Cost: BB Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels) Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You let out a sibilant verse that causes madness in even the most hardened warrior Tourach was a great black mage of old; his power was such that his followers deified him after his death. The hymn to Tourach is a prayer to that ancient Necromancer, but the hymn also has black mana behind it. When cast, the Dungeon Master picks two spells at random from your target’s spell list. For the spell’s duration, the target cannot cast those spells. They simply forget that they even know them in the first place. Unlike duress, the caster of hymn to Tourach does not know which spell he has negated, nor does he get a list of spells that mage knows, though the tortured look on his foe’s face will tell him whether or not it succeeded. Note: The easiest way for a DM to randomly pick a spell is to roll a dice with an appropriate number of sides to it. Last Gasp Instant Mana Cost: 1B Casting Time: Swift action Range: Touch Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You take the breath from the creature you touched, ideally his last one. Last gasp is a basic black spell - so basic that it is a class ability of the Black mage class. With a successful touch attack, you deal 1d2 points of Constitution damage to a target. Obviously, Last gasp will not work on undead, constructs, or other beings without Constitution scores. Pestilence Enchantment - Global Mana Cost: 2BB Casting Time: Full-round Action Range: Self Area: A circle with a 30-foot radius, centered on the caster. Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Fortitude negates; see below Spell Resistance: Yes A vaporous, toxic cloud spreads from your person, choking all within its reach Pestilence creates a roiling cloud centered on yourself. The cloud deals 1d6 points of damage to everyone inside of it for each round that it is existent unless the targets make a Fortitude save. You are not immune to the cloud yourself, so ideally you have a way of dealing with it. A disenchant spell cast on you to remove pestilence will destroy the cloud and end its effect. Terror Instant Mana Cost: 1B Casting Time: Swift action Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 caster levels) Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes You send a roiling mana cloud of abject dread at your target Terror instills abject fear in its target, causing him to view you as the single most horrible thing in existence. The target will do everything in his power to flee from your presence and avoid you at all costs. If he cannot flee you without going near you, he instead cowers in place. He will still defend himself if attacked, but otherwise the target is essentially out of the fight for the spell’s duration. Terror does not work on other undead or constructs, even if they are sentient.
teamfireyleader 03-08-08, 04:54 PM	Very nice class. I actually know nothing about magic tg other than it is a tcg. is this like the black mage in 8 bit thearter? If so you need hadoken (even though it is from a game, ?streetfighter?. It seems balanced but i only had a quick look. Good work!
Rogue Shadows 03-11-08, 06:52 PM	is this like the black mage in 8 bit thearter? Well, yes and no. Final Fantasy is based off of D&D, and Magic is based off of D&D, so some similarities are inevitable. But Black Mages in Magic aren't really like their FF counterparts. Black mages rarely summon fire or ice, for example. They focus on dying, death, and the dead, as well as insanity and madness. Hadoken wouldn't be very appropriate. Though yes, it's from Street Fighter; it's one of Ken/Ryu's moves.
Rogue Shadows 03-13-08, 12:53 PM	Hmm. Five days, no real responses. I am therefore going to assume that I have created the perfect spellcaster, without flaws except for not going to 20th level, a spellcaster so perfect that it, in fact, is better than the Warlock and Wizard and Druid and so on. This class is the epitome of balance and coolness. Awesome.
dawnbringer 03-13-08, 01:02 PM	I think you should create the next 10 levels.
Isendir 03-13-08, 06:02 PM	only down side is a black mage running out of mana....
steventirey1985 03-13-08, 07:41 PM	I like it. When you have time, could you post the other classes too?
Artemus 03-14-08, 03:09 PM	I think you should be able to pump mana into Pestilence like the actual card, and Consume Spirit would be a nice spell as well. Good luck with this, and the others. Waits patiently for :r: Mage...
Shinigami42 03-15-08, 02:55 AM	The biggest problem I see so far is the lack of spells. I counted 9 spells on the black spell list you have presented here (may have miscounted, but that still isn't alot). Three of these spells the BM gets as class features. So there are 6 spells left that the BM really needs to take. 3 at first, 4 at second, 5 at third, and the last at fourth. I agree that a full 20 progression would be helpful, but more spells are a more pressing necessity. EDIT: Oh yeah, also, some of these seem really weak. 4 mana to deal 1d6 damage per round, fort negates? You need a minimum of level 6 to even have four mana, and that will blow your resources for a few turns while you recover the mana.
Rogue Shadows 03-24-08, 12:56 PM	Hooray! More responces. I rescind my previous comment. From the looks of things, it seems like the basic idea of the Mage (no real limit to spells per day, simply spells at any given moment) is mechanically sound enough and now we're just dealing with semantics. This surprises me. I put these classes together in two days. The biggest problem I see so far is the lack of spells. I counted 9 spells on the black spell list you have presented here (may have miscounted, but that still isn't alot). Three of these spells the BM gets as class features. So there are 6 spells left that the BM really needs to take. 3 at first, 4 at second, 5 at third, and the last at fourth. You try converting magic instants, sorceries, and enchantments into D&D spells. It's not easy. Though I am trying, I swear, my original idea was simply to make these classes, make the spells, and then as my players play, have them hand me Magic cards that they want to see as spells. Though if you'd like more spells, I'll get home and get working on it. I'm reluctant, though, to try and simply give spells from the PHB or other sources mana costs. Oh yeah, also, some of these seem really weak. 4 mana to deal 1d6 damage per round, fort negates? You need a minimum of level 6 to even have four mana, and that will blow your resources for a few turns while you recover the mana. I'll admit that designing spells is a new thing for me. I've done races, classes, feats, template, but never spells before. Feel free to tweak any spells you see at your leisure. I like it. When you have time, could you post the other classes too? Yeah, starting with the Red mage tomorrow. I think you should create the next 10 levels. There's a few things preventing me from doing that. 1) I never run games higher than 10th level. Levels 11-20 are unnecessary. 2) I'm worried that, with their mana progression being what it is, the mages will become overpowered by the time they begin to hit the upper levels.
SilvercatMoonpaw 03-24-08, 05:02 PM	Okay, so if I have this right: *A mage pays mana to power spells. *May only cast one spell per turn. *All mana the mage can have replenishes at the beginning of a turn. *If he has any mana existing in his mana pool at the end of his turn he will take damage. So he can cast unlimited spells per day and encounter. The drawback is he doesn't have many useful spells at low levels and will take damage if he doesn't use that one spell per turn to cast a spell that costs exactly what is in his mana pool.
steventirey1985 03-24-08, 09:55 PM	*A mage pays mana to power spells. *May only cast one spell per turn. Correct. *All mana the mage can have replenishes at the beginning of a turn. No. You regain 1 mana per round. (First post, under Mana:) *If he has any mana existing in his mana pool at the end of his turn he will take damage. So he can cast unlimited spells per day and encounter. The drawback is he doesn't have many useful spells at low levels and will take damage if he doesn't use that one spell per turn to cast a spell that costs exactly what is in his mana pool. Not quite. The mage has a mana pool, which is the total amount of mana available to the mage this turn. Lets say he has 8 mana in his mana pool. The mage then draws some of that mana out of the pool before he casts a spell. Say he draws out 4 mana. He then casts Terror, which only costs 2 mana, leaving 2 points of mana drawn from the pool, but not used. If the mage ends his turn without spending those 2 other mana that he drew from the pool, he takes damage. In most cases, a mage will only draw the amount of mana from his pool that he needs, but some spells may give the mage extra mana for that round (adding a certain amount of mana to any amount the mage may otherwise have drawn from his pool), and if all of that isn't used, the mage takes damage.
LordPendragon 03-24-08, 11:34 PM	*A mage pays mana to power spells. *May only cast one spell per turn. Correct. Not quite. You can only cast any specific spell once per round. For instance, if a black mage wanted to cast darkness, quickly followed by hymn to tourach and terror, there would be no problems as long as he had enough mana (and standard/swift actions) to do so. I like this class, but agree that what it offers is slightly underwhelming. I do really like the idea of multiclassing with the other mage classes, and the possibilities offered by that. Important Suggestions... - Make the whole mana pool recharge each round. This alone will make up for the relative weakness of each spell, as several can be cast each round. It also removes the logistics problem of the mage having a huge amount of resources to dump quickly at the start of a fight, followed by very little afterwards (and without the option to gain more per round as his levels go up). - Allow casting multiple spells with one standard action. This will synergize with the full pool recharging each round, and similarly help offset the individual weakness of each spell. - A hard limit on number of spells known should be established, or any mage who gains access to a decent magic library will quickly learn all the available spells. I suggest that they have to trade a spell known for any new one learned from a book. Less Important Suggestions... - Instants should probably be immediate actions instead of swift. Also, interrupts don't exist anymore in the new MtG rules, in case you didn't know. - Allow learning a spell multiple times. This only works if you put a limit on spells known, but would allow a mage who wants to specialize to cast the same spell twice in a round by learning it twice (or more, if they really want) - Remove the rule about mana burn. It'll almost never come up for a D&D mage, and just adds an obscure nitpicky rule that non-MtG players won't understand without more clarification. (RE: the last 2 posts) - 3/4 BAB and D6 HD don't seem very black mage-y to me, but that's just about preference. - Make regeneration a spell, or some other spell that does the same thing (I know there's one that does it... I think it's like B to regerate target creature as an instant) - Remove hex and duress as class features. Let the spell list speak for itself; the mage can choose those spells if he wants them. - Terrain familiarity would make more sense if it only affected caster level checks and added an extra mana (maybe also Will saves). - I can't tell if terror is too weak or too powerful.
Rogue Shadows 03-25-08, 11:44 AM	On a side note: I wanted to make a magic duel between possessors of the Mage class resemble the fight between Voldemort and Dumbledore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UABZA9ZpA&feature=related), which is probably what I'd use as a basis for any magical fight ever again. Kind of short, though. Not quite. You can only cast any specific spell once per round. For instance, if a black mage wanted to cast darkness, quickly followed by hymn to tourach and terror, there would be no problems as long as he had enough mana (and standard/swift actions) to do so. Nailed it on the head. Generally a mage will be able to cast a sorcery or an enchantment on his turn, and an instant (maybe) on someone else's turn. I like this class, but agree that what it offers is slightly underwhelming. I do really like the idea of multiclassing with the other mage classes, and the possibilities offered by that. I'm trying to convert spells, I really am. But it's not easy, again especially since effects in Magic and effects in D&D can be very different in terms of power. Seismic Assault, for example. In Magic, apparently, throwing a mountain at someone deals 2 damage. In D&D, throwing a mountain at someone deals...I dunno, I guess 100d%+100d% damage, with a Reflex save for half as long as you are able to reach an open space where the mountain won't hit with a single move action. Important Suggestions... - Make the whole mana pool recharge each round. This alone will make up for the relative weakness of each spell, as several can be cast each round. It also removes the logistics problem of the mage having a huge amount of resources to dump quickly at the start of a fight, followed by very little afterwards (and without the option to gain more per round as his levels go up). The original version of the Mage featured that, and my crappy editing may include that somewhere. I was all fine and dandy with that... ...then I made blaze into a spell and realized I could have some problems. - Allow casting multiple spells with one standard action. This will synergize with the full pool recharging each round, and similarly help offset the individual weakness of each spell. Not a bad idea. Instants only, however, simply as a matter of keeping it in-flavor with Magic. - A hard limit on number of spells known should be established, or any mage who gains access to a decent magic library will quickly learn all the available spells. I suggest that they have to trade a spell known for any new one learned from a book. Hmm. Actually I like that idea. It sort of synergizes with the an M:tG player taking out cards from his deck that weren't helping him, and putting in new ones in order to playtest. Less Important Suggestions... - Instants should probably be immediate actions instead of swift. Also, interrupts don't exist anymore in the new MtG rules, in case you didn't know. Yeah, I know. However, I wanted the various counterspells to be grouped under one subtype, and "interrupt" sprang immediately to mind as a good name for that subtype. - Allow learning a spell multiple times. This only works if you put a limit on spells known, but would allow a mage who wants to specialize to cast the same spell twice in a round by learning it twice (or more, if they really want) Hmm. Cool. - Remove the rule about mana burn. It'll almost never come up for a D&D mage, and just adds an obscure nitpicky rule that non-MtG players won't understand without more clarification. (RE: the last 2 posts) True. Though I'd still like to work it in somehow. I made mana flood a feat, for example. - 3/4 BAB and D6 HD don't seem very black mage-y to me, but that's just about preference. To me, d4 HD just seems way too small and frail for any class. Though I agree the 3/4 BAB is a bit much. - Make regeneration a spell, or some other spell that does the same thing (I know there's one that does it... I think it's like B to regerate target creature as an instant) There is one, I'll find it later. - Remove hex and duress as class features. Let the spell list speak for itself; the mage can choose those spells if he wants them. Okiedoky. - Terrain familiarity would make more sense if it only affected caster level checks and added an extra mana (maybe also Will saves). The original idea was simply that confronting a mage on his home turf makes them more difficult, period, though perhaps it should be scaled back a bit. - I can't tell if terror is too weak or too powerful. It's a bit tricky, but I think it's a bit balanced. It basically simply stops them from attacking for the spell's duration. My general rule is that multiple spells don't stack, so a black mage can't cast terror on a target multiple times to keep them out of the fight forever. Though he can terrorize an entire attacking party if I go the route you're suggesting and have mana replenish fully each turn. It's a stopgap measure, very little else.
LordPendragon 03-25-08, 11:00 PM	In Magic, apparently, throwing a mountain at someone deals 2 damage. In D&D, throwing a mountain at someone deals...I dunno, I guess 100d%+100d% damage, with a Reflex save for half as long as you are able to reach an open space where the mountain won't hit with a single move action. Actually, I'm pretty sure seismic assault is just an earthquake, but I see what you mean :rolleyes: ...then I made blaze into a spell and realized I could have some problems. What problems?? Blaze XR Deal XD6 fire damage to target creature or object. It gets barely any more powerful than a Warlock's eldritch blast, which is widely regarded as underpowered. Not a bad idea. Instants only, however, simply as a matter of keeping it in-flavor with Magic. Keeping it to instants only would be fine, but that would actually be against the flavour of MtG, since an MtG player can cast multiple sorceries, enchantments, summons, etc on his own turn if he has the mana. Yeah, I know. However, I wanted the various counterspells to be grouped under one subtype, and "interrupt" sprang immediately to mind as a good name for that subtype. Is there any problem with just making all the instants into immediate actions and leaving it at that?? The original idea was simply that confronting a mage on his home turf makes them more difficult, period, though perhaps it should be scaled back a bit. This one's up to you completely. It's not a balance issue at all, just something that didn't make a lot of sense to me. It's a stopgap measure, very little else. I'll trust your judgment on that.
Rogue Shadows 03-26-08, 09:22 AM	What problems?? Blaze XR Deal XD6 fire damage to target creature or object. It gets barely any more powerful than a Warlock's eldritch blast, which is widely regarded as underpowered. A warlock can't cast Seething Song. A Red mage can by 4th level. Seething song into blaze at 4th level is 4d6 damage. Yeah, that sounds about right, but by 4th level a mage will probably have artifacts to increase his mana pool. And if he has the planeswalker template- Oh, I forgot to mention, I made a planeswalker template Then he also has two colorless mana to toss around by 4th level. So it's really 6d6 by 4th level. Averages out to somewhere between 12-24 damage per turn (assuming typical rolls are 2s, 3s, or 4s). You can Reflex for half, but it won't miss. Actually, I'm pretty sure seismic assault is just an earthquake, but I see what you mean Eh, it's up in the air. I like the image of throwing mountains. Keeping it to instants only would be fine, but that would actually be against the flavour of MtG, since an MtG player can cast multiple sorceries, enchantments, summons, etc on his own turn if he has the mana. True, but there has to be some counter-balancing factor given the mana recharge rate. I'm trying to put Magic into D&D terms but I'm not being slavishly loyal to it because that might lead to overpowerdness/underpoweredness. I mean otherwise, basically what you'd end up with there, taking the, say, green mage into account, is a wizard who never runs out of Summon Monster spells, and the monsters never go away. Or taking the red mage into account, it's a wizard who never runs out of magic missile, flaming sphere, and fireball, and can probably do them all on the same turn, and on your turn, too.
LordPendragon 03-26-08, 11:54 AM	A warlock can't cast Seething Song. A Red mage can by 4th level. Seething song into blaze at 4th level is 4d6 damage. Yeah, that sounds about right, but by 4th level a mage will probably have artifacts to increase his mana pool. And if he has the planeswalker template- Oh, I forgot to mention, I made a planeswalker template Then he also has two colorless mana to toss around by 4th level. So it's really 6d6 by 4th level. Averages out to somewhere between 12-24 damage per turn (assuming typical rolls are 2s, 3s, or 4s). You can Reflex for half, but it won't miss. It actually averages to 21 (3.5 per D6). However, that's 6D6 on one shot, and then 4D6 (average 14, or 7 if saved) on any later ones. Assuming that the Warlock has access to a crucible, he'll be doing 3D6 per round (average 10.5), but without a Reflex save for half, and as energy damage (no resistances) instead of fire damage (lots of resitances). Also, if that planeswalker template gives a free 2 mana each turn, it must have a fairly large LA. If it doesn't, then maybe what's broken here is the template and not the spells. True, but there has to be some counter-balancing factor given the mana recharge rate. ... Or taking the red mage into account, it's a wizard who never runs out of magic missile, flaming sphere, and fireball, and can probably do them all on the same turn, and on your turn, too. I can see your intent here, and it's good, but it ultimately comes down to the balance of spells. As you've mentioned, not all spells need to be brought over from MtG verbatim, since the mechanics are different. If we assume that a mage is going to use all his mana each turn (which a smart one will), then what does it matter if he casts 3 small sorceries or 1 big one?? As long as the spells are balanced by mana cost, there should be no problem.
Rogue Shadows 03-27-08, 10:37 AM	Also, if that planeswalker template gives a free 2 mana each turn, it must have a fairly large LA. If it doesn't, then maybe what's broken here is the template and not the spells. It's actually a mounting thing. You get one colorless mana for your 1st HD, and then an additional 1 colorless mana at your 4th and 8th HD. Otherwise the planeswalker didn't do enough to warrent an LA, I felt. The only other thing it does is give a +2 bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma (templater's choice), and allows access to the spell Planeswalk Planeswalk Sorcery Mana Cost: CCC; see text Casting Time: Full-round action Range: Self Target: Self plus up to five times body weight. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) Drawing upon mana, you step into the Blind Eternities and then beyond, appearing on another world. Planeswalk is a spell that can only be cast by creatures with the Planeswalker template. It lets you journey (called planeswalking or 'walking) from one plane of existance to another. "Planes," in Magic, do not mean supernatural realms such as Baator or Aborea. Rather, a plane is an entirely seperate prime material plane, with its own history, culture, dominant species, and so on. Planeswalk requires three mana of any single color to use. This means that most spellcaster can't cast Planeswalk until they are at least 4th level in a single Mage class without the intervention of mana accelerating artifacts (though Green mages can do it by 3rd level, while Blue mages must wait until 5th). You may freely planeswalk to any plane you have been to before. Alternatively, you may strike out into the Blind Eternities and attempt to find a new plane. Planeswalkers instinctively know whether or not a plane can support them (i.e., whether there is food, water, air, and gravity within comfortable levels), so they never risk accidentally 'walking into a plane that is, for example, composed entirely of fire or which lacks air. The only organic beings that can survive easily a planeswalker are those with the Planeswalker spark can survive a planeswalk. Any other being brought along must make a Fortitude save (DC 20) or die. Even if they succeed, they are automatically reduced to 1 hit point. Dying beings brought along on a planeswalk automatically die, no save allowed. Constructs (even living constructs) are immune to this, but undead are not. Note: the exception to this is a Green mage's animal companion, who may follow a planeswalking Green mage without suffering. Planeswalkers tend to appear at a locality that suits their personality. For example, a planeswalking scholar may appear at the largest library of the plane. A planeswalker who travels for the shere joy of it may appear next to a major trail. Other planeswalkers may follow a planeswalker through a "scar" that is left behind after a 'walker casts this spell. This scar persists for 1 minute. If the other planeswalker does this, they appear near to the planeswalker followed. Note: it's not a coinscidence that planeswalking requires CCC, and that Black Lotus adds CCC to your mana pool.
LordPendragon 03-27-08, 04:25 PM	If there's no downside, then it's definitely worth an LA. Probably a big LA, at that. What would you put as the LA on a template that gave any spellcaster 50% more spells per day, and a +2 to their primary spellcasting ability??
Rogue Shadows 03-28-08, 10:39 AM	If there's no downside, then it's definitely worth an LA. Probably a big LA, at that. What would you put as the LA on a template that gave any spellcaster 50% more spells per day, and a +2 to their primary spellcasting ability?? Probably nothing, actually. +2 to a single score isn't worth an LA in my opinion (or even the consideration for one), and the 50% more spell thing is erronous because it only does that at higher levels. At 1st level, it's one more mana, and a colorless one at that. It will allow you earlier access to higher-cost spells but doesn't actually increase the number of spells you can cast. At best, it helps you because you can now cast darkness and duress without worrying about a force spike - which blue mages get as their spell-like ability - stopping it. By the time you hit 4th level, you've now got 2BBB. That's a bit more impressive, but not much, because any number of artifacts I plan on making, such as Charcoal Diamond are already duplicating that for you. You become a little better. And by 10th level, you've already got more mana than God. 3 extra mana means little because you're probably bleeding moxen and have access to "the archaic and ancient spells from a time when magic was young..." which means Dark Ritual, High Tide, and so on.
LordPendragon 03-28-08, 11:54 AM	"the archaic and ancient spells from a time when magic was young..." Ancestral Recall :D In any case, Planeswalker needs an LA. How about instead of 50% more spells per day, you call it a template that gives access to the next level of spells 2 levels earlier (ie, level 2 spells at level 1, 3 at 3, 4 at 5, etc). Then tack a +2 to primary casting ability onto that. I'd take that template any day. I'd take that template even if I wasn't a caster, just for the free +2 to a mental ability.