Blackguard Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blackguard Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hat
01-30-05, 06:17 PM I'm a bit confused at how Blackguard works. As far as I can tell I have 2 options: Lets assume I have 14 levels to play with.

1. If I had an 11th level Paladin who falls from the light and becomes a Blackguard he loses all paladin abilities and can advance as a Blackguard. As he was 11th level when he fell he gains all the abilities available to Paladin's that fall from grace. He can then take 3 levels of Blackguard (to make 14 levels) and gain the abilities of a 3rd level Blackguard as usual.

2. If I have a 14th level Paladin when he falls he can trade 10 levels of Paladin for 10 levels of Blackguard annd gain all Blackguard abilities immediately, but can only gain the Fallen Paladin abilities upto level 3, as that is all the Paladin levels he has left.

Can someone please clarify this for me.

One final question in relation to fiendish mounts. Is it possible to take a Nightmare or a Cauchemar as a mount for a Blackguard/Fallen Paladin with 14 levels? Would this be too poerwful or how could it be accomplished (feats, dropping special abilities, removing fiendish template etc)?

Regards
ksbsnowowl
01-30-05, 07:35 PM 1. If I had an 11th level Paladin who falls from the light and becomes a Blackguard he loses all paladin abilities and can advance as a Blackguard. As he was 11th level when he fell he gains all the abilities available to Paladin's that fall from grace. He can then take 3 levels of Blackguard (to make 14 levels) and gain the abilities of a 3rd level Blackguard as usual.You could do exactly this, but it would be a waste. What you would want to do in this instance is trade in two levels of paladin for blackguard, and then continue progressing in blackguard. You would end up as a Paladin 9/Blackguard 5 with every single fallen paladin ability.

2. If I have a 14th level Paladin when he falls he can trade 10 levels of Paladin for 10 levels of Blackguard annd gain all Blackguard abilities immediately, but can only gain the Fallen Paladin abilities upto level 3, as that is all the Paladin levels he has left.Close, but your numbers are off. A 14th level paladin could trade in 10 of his levels for blackguard levels and would end up as a Paladin 4/Blackguard 10, and would have the first two fallen paladin abilities (those up through paladin 4).

There is a third, and potentially better option. Take an 11th level Paladin who falls to evil, and trade in all possible paladin levels for blackguard levels. You end up as a Paladin 1/Blackguard 10 that gains the first fallen paladin ability. You then progress in another PrC for 3 levels, bringing you to a total progression of Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/PrC 3.
hat
01-30-05, 08:27 PM So do you think it is better to take all the Fallen Paladin abilities and a few levels of Blackguard or to have 10 Blackguard levels straight off the bat and only a couple of the Fallen Paladin abilities?

I'm trying to decide what to do with 14 levels I have to play with in creating a character.
Kratch
01-31-05, 11:32 AM You could do exactly this, but it would be a waste. What you would want to do in this instance is trade in two levels of paladin for blackguard, and then continue progressing in blackguard. You would end up as a Paladin 9/Blackguard 5 with every single fallen paladin ability.

Not entirly true, you'd lose a smite/day, but worth it in my opinion. I personally would only keep 5 of the paladin levels. The undead servant could be fun to play with, but it doesn't have a lot of HD or BaB, so not sure how usefull.

I personally like the idea of a spellthief 2/Paladin 5/Shadowbane Inquisitor X/Blackguard X. Spellthief 2 so you can steal the buffs off the tank or cleric the good guys send at you and qualify for Shadowbane Inq. The 5th level in paladin to gain the extra sneak attack damage from fallen paladin abilities).
ksbsnowowl
01-31-05, 02:49 PM Not entirly true, you'd lose a smite/day, but worth it in my opinion.That must be new to 3.5. In the 3.0 Blackguard there is no advantage in having 10 fallen paladin levels over 9. The only time an extra smite is gained is with 1 fallen paladin level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hat 01-30-05, 06:17 PM	I'm a bit confused at how Blackguard works. As far as I can tell I have 2 options: Lets assume I have 14 levels to play with. 1. If I had an 11th level Paladin who falls from the light and becomes a Blackguard he loses all paladin abilities and can advance as a Blackguard. As he was 11th level when he fell he gains all the abilities available to Paladin's that fall from grace. He can then take 3 levels of Blackguard (to make 14 levels) and gain the abilities of a 3rd level Blackguard as usual. 2. If I have a 14th level Paladin when he falls he can trade 10 levels of Paladin for 10 levels of Blackguard annd gain all Blackguard abilities immediately, but can only gain the Fallen Paladin abilities upto level 3, as that is all the Paladin levels he has left. Can someone please clarify this for me. One final question in relation to fiendish mounts. Is it possible to take a Nightmare or a Cauchemar as a mount for a Blackguard/Fallen Paladin with 14 levels? Would this be too poerwful or how could it be accomplished (feats, dropping special abilities, removing fiendish template etc)? Regards
ksbsnowowl 01-30-05, 07:35 PM	1. If I had an 11th level Paladin who falls from the light and becomes a Blackguard he loses all paladin abilities and can advance as a Blackguard. As he was 11th level when he fell he gains all the abilities available to Paladin's that fall from grace. He can then take 3 levels of Blackguard (to make 14 levels) and gain the abilities of a 3rd level Blackguard as usual.You could do exactly this, but it would be a waste. What you would want to do in this instance is trade in two levels of paladin for blackguard, and then continue progressing in blackguard. You would end up as a Paladin 9/Blackguard 5 with every single fallen paladin ability. 2. If I have a 14th level Paladin when he falls he can trade 10 levels of Paladin for 10 levels of Blackguard annd gain all Blackguard abilities immediately, but can only gain the Fallen Paladin abilities upto level 3, as that is all the Paladin levels he has left.Close, but your numbers are off. A 14th level paladin could trade in 10 of his levels for blackguard levels and would end up as a Paladin 4/Blackguard 10, and would have the first two fallen paladin abilities (those up through paladin 4). There is a third, and potentially better option. Take an 11th level Paladin who falls to evil, and trade in all possible paladin levels for blackguard levels. You end up as a Paladin 1/Blackguard 10 that gains the first fallen paladin ability. You then progress in another PrC for 3 levels, bringing you to a total progression of Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/PrC 3.
hat 01-30-05, 08:27 PM	So do you think it is better to take all the Fallen Paladin abilities and a few levels of Blackguard or to have 10 Blackguard levels straight off the bat and only a couple of the Fallen Paladin abilities? I'm trying to decide what to do with 14 levels I have to play with in creating a character.
Kratch 01-31-05, 11:32 AM	You could do exactly this, but it would be a waste. What you would want to do in this instance is trade in two levels of paladin for blackguard, and then continue progressing in blackguard. You would end up as a Paladin 9/Blackguard 5 with every single fallen paladin ability. Not entirly true, you'd lose a smite/day, but worth it in my opinion. I personally would only keep 5 of the paladin levels. The undead servant could be fun to play with, but it doesn't have a lot of HD or BaB, so not sure how usefull. I personally like the idea of a spellthief 2/Paladin 5/Shadowbane Inquisitor X/Blackguard X. Spellthief 2 so you can steal the buffs off the tank or cleric the good guys send at you and qualify for Shadowbane Inq. The 5th level in paladin to gain the extra sneak attack damage from fallen paladin abilities).
ksbsnowowl 01-31-05, 02:49 PM	Not entirly true, you'd lose a smite/day, but worth it in my opinion.That must be new to 3.5. In the 3.0 Blackguard there is no advantage in having 10 fallen paladin levels over 9. The only time an extra smite is gained is with 1 fallen paladin level.