Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bkdubs123 10-09-07, 08:47 AM	The Blade Dancer Anyone here ever heard of the Blade Dancer, a prestige class from Oriental Adventures? Well, it has some REALLY good dip abilities, and the flavor of the class in general is very well done. The problem is that it really is just a dip class (for HUGE bonuses to movement based skills and land speed). So what I did was look at a few different classes that the Blade Dancer takes flavor from and combine them into a cohesive whole (Monk, Swashbuckler, Duskblade, the PrC itself). The abilities really take on a new flavor when put together and the resulting class is very interesting. I hope you enjoy taking a look as much as I enjoyed putting it together. **Note: This class is substantially more powerful than the standard Monk class. Trading in an unarmed damage progression, Slowfall, and a couple of feats, this class gains a spellcasting progression, an arcane channeling-ish ability, and blade enchantment powers. If you think the standard Monk is balanced then you might not like this class.** http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n100/bkdubs123/Dreamfall_by_JasonEngle-1.jpg "We all dance to the Sway of the Stars, I just hear the music," - Mei Li Guan, Blade Dancer The Blade Dancer is a swashbuckler and scholar, an athlete and artist, a magician and monk. Combining the study of one's body and soul and the physical perfection that entails with the study of the arcane arts Blade Dancer's achieve feats of agility and grace of otherworldly rapport. Wielding a thin blade as if it were a calligraphy brush these, Artists of the Soul, weave arcane tapestries through their martial dance. Hit Dice: d8 Table 1-1: The Blade Dancer LV Base Attack Fort Ref Will Specials 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Flurry of Blades, Weapon Finesse, AC Bonus 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Acrobatics +2, Fast Movement +10 3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Spellgrace +2 4 +3 +1 +4 +4 Bladeweave, Dodge +1 5 +3 +1 +4 +4 Spellstoring Sword, Enchanted Blade I 6 +4 +2 +5 +5 Acrobatic Strike +1/1d6, Fast Movement +20 7 +5 +2 +5 +5 Acrobatic Charge, Leap of the Heavens 8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Acrobatics +5, Purity of Body, Dodge +2 9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 The Gods Smile 10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Enchanted Blade II, Fast Movement +30 11 +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Acrobatic Strike +2/2d6, Greater Flurry, Spellgrace +3 12 +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Wholeness of Body, Dodge +3 13 +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Acrobatic Skill Mastery 14 +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Fast Movement +40 15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Acrobatics +10, Enchanted Blade III, Abundant Step 16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Acrobatic Strike +3/3d6, Dodge +4 17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon 18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Fast Movement +50 19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Empty Body, Spellgrace +4 20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Enchanted Blade IV, Perfect Self, Dodge +5 Table 1-2: Spells Per Day Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1. 2 0 2. 2 0 3. 3 1 4. 3 1 5. 3 1 0 6. 4 2 0 7. 4 2 1 8. 4 2 1 9. 4 2 1 0 10. 4 3 2 1 11. 4 3 2 1 12. 5 3 2 1 13. 5 3 2 2 0 14. 5 4 3 2 1 15. 5 4 3 2 1 16. 6 4 3 3 2 17. 6 4 3 3 2 18. 6 4 4 3 3 19. 6 5 4 4 3 20. 6 5 4 4 4 Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, and Tumble. Class Features All of the following are class features of the Blade Dancer: Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Blade Dancer is proficient with all simple weapons, all martial slashing weapons, and with the short sword, rapier, butterfly sword (OA), ninja-to (OA), war fan (OA), and straight sword. A Blade Dancer is not proficient with any armor or shields. Spellcasting: A Blade Dancer casts arcane spells drawn from the Blade Dancer spell list, and must prepare her spells as a Wizard using a spellbook. Intelligence effects whether or not she gets any bonus spells, the highest level spells she can cast and the saving throws against her spells. AC Bonus: A Blade Dancer is highly trained at dodging blows, and makes great use of her intellect in order to predict attacks before they happen. When unarmored, a Blade Dancer adds her intelligence to her Armor Class. This bonus applies even against touch attacks. A Blade Dancer loses this bonus when she is flat-footed, immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, or when she carries a shield. Flurry of Blades: A Blade Dancer has the ability to make an additional attack as part of a full attack at the expense of accuracy that is nearly identical to a Monk's flurry of blows. When equipped with a weapon for which the Blade Dancer has proficiency, and while wearing no armor and carrying nothing in her off-hand a Blade Dancer can accept a -2 penalty to all attacks she makes as part of a full attack, but gain an additional attack at her highest attack bonus. When making a Flurry of Blades a Blade Dancer may only make attacks with weapons she is proficient with. When a Blade Dancer reaches 5th level the penalty to attacks lessens to -1 and at 9th level the penalty disappears entirely (-0). When a Blade Dancer reaches 11th level her Flurry of Blades improves, granting her an additional extra attack at her highest base attack bonus. Bonus Feats: At 1st level a Blade Dancer gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. At 7th level a Blade Dancer gains Leap of the Heavens (PHBII) as a bonus feat. These feats are gained whether the Blade Dancer meets the prerequisites or not. Fast Movement: At 2nd level a Blade Dancer's speed is fortified through her rigorous physical and magical training granting her +10 feet to all movement speeds she may possess. At 6th level this improves to +20, and her speed continues to increase by +10 every four levels after 6th. Acrobatics: At 2nd level a Blade Dancer's agile nature is fused with a small portion of magical alacrity. She gains a +2 bonus to balance, jump and tumble. This bonus increases to +5 at 8th level and to +10 at 15th as she continues to hone her magical talents. Spellgrace: At 3rd level a Blade Dancer gains a +2 insight bonus to saving throws against all spells and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level, and +4 at 19th. Bladeweave: At 4th level a Blade Dancer gains the extraordinary ability to cause her opponents to marvel at her beautiful bladework. Onlookers swear some eldritch force compels them to be still and give pause and the Blade Dancer herself certainly isn't saying one way or the other. A number of times per day equal to her Blade Dancer levels, plus one per four levels in other classes she may have, a Blade Dancer can attempt a Bladeweave. You must declare you are using this ability before making an attack. Bladeweave forces all opponents within 5 ft of any foe damaged by your attack to make a Will saving throw (DC 10 +1/2 your character level +your Cha modifier) or become dazed for 1 round, or until they are dealt damage. You may use additional Bladeweave attempts on a single attack to increase the range of the ability 5ft per attempt. Doing so expends daily Bladeweave attempts, but the resultant attack still only counts as a single Bladeweave attempt for the round. At 4th level you may only attempt a single Bladeweave per round. At 8th and 15th levels you gain the ability to make additional Bladeweave attempts per round to a maximum of three. Dodge: As the Swashbuckler special ability (The Good Version, from my sig :D). Spellstoring Sword: As a move action you may store a single targeted 1st level spell you have prepared in your weapon (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action). Storing spells this way uses the prepared spell up for the day as though you had cast it. Any time the weapon strikes a creature and that creature takes damage from it, you may immediately discharge the spell as a free action targeting that creature as if you had just cast it (but you certainly do not have to). At every level after 5th you may store additional spell levels in your weapon, allowing a 2nd level spell to be stored in your weapon at 6th level or two 1st level spells (to a maximum of fifteen spell levels at level 20 - allowing for any combination of spells to be stored whose levels do not exceed 15). When you damage a creature with your weapon if there are multiple spells stored in it you may discharge a maximum number of spell levels equal to one half the number you can store in your weapon at any given time rounded down (example - an 11th level Blade Dancer can store seven spell levels in her sword. She may never discharge more than three spell levels at once with a single strike of her spellstoring sword). You may discharge any number of spell levels up to your maximum upon strikes, or even none at all. As you gain additional spell levels you still need only spend a single move action to store that number of spell levels in your weapon. Enchanted Blade: A Blade Dancer can temporarily enchant her sword to achieve a specific effect. By spending a move action, a Blade Dancer can bestow magical properties upon her weapon dependent on her Blade Dancer levels. The enhancements bestowed in this way can later be dismissed using a swift action. A Blade Dancer can only benefit from Enchanted Blade for a number of minutes per day depending on her level, and the tier of abilities. A Blade Dancer learns new enhancement abilities as she gains levels. When a Blade Dancer prepares her spells for the day she also prepares enhancements learned through Enchanted Blade. A Blade Dancer can only apply enhancements to her weapon through Enchanted Blade that she has prepared, although she may know others. When a Blade Dancer learns her first two enhancements of any given level of Enchanted Blade she may only prepare one of those enhancements per day. Each time a Blade Dancer learns her higher level Enchanted Blade enhancements she may prepare one more of each lower level enhancement she knows each day. For example, a 15th level Blade Dancer can prepare three Enchanted Blade I abilities each day, two Enchanted Blade II abilities each day, and a single Enchanted Blade III enhancement each day. Enchanted Blade I: At 5th level a Blade Dancer learns two of the following enhancements, being able to bestow them to her sword through use of Enchanted Blade: Defending, Flaming, Frost, Shock, Ghost Touch or Throwing. She learns an additional enhancement from the above every five levels after 5th. At 5th level, a Blade Dancer may only benefit from Enchanted Blade I abilities for a total of 1 minute per day, split up as she desires. At every 5th level beyond 5th this time increases by 1 minute. Enchanted Blade II: At 10th level a Blade Dancer learns two of the following enhancements, being able to bestow them to her sword through use of Enchanted Blade: Disruption, Flaming Burst, Icy Burst, Shocking Burst, Thundering or Vicious. She learns an additional enhancement from the above every five levels after 10th. Instead of preparing a single Enchanted Blade II ability a Blade Dancer may prepare two Enchanted Blade I abilities in the same "slot" allowing the Blade Dancer to benefit from both of them simultaneously. At 10th level, a Blade Dancer may only benefit from Enchanted Blade II abilities for a total of 1 minute per day, split up as she desires. At every 5th level beyond 10th this time increases by 1 minute. Enchanted Blade III: At 15th level a Blade Dancer learns two of the following enhancements, being able to bestow them to her sword through use of Enchanted Blade: Anarchic, Axiomatic, Holy, Unholy, or Wounding. She learns an additional enhancement from the above every five levels after 15th. Instead of preparing a single Enchanted Blade III ability a Blade Dancer may prepare two Enchanted Blade II abilities in the same "slot" allowing the Blade Dancer to benefit from both of them simultaneously. At 15th level, a Blade Dancer may only benefit from Enchanted Blade III abilities for a total of 1 minute per day, split up as she desires. At every 5th level beyond 15th this time increases by 1 minute. Enchanted Blade IV: At 20th level a Blade Dancer learns two of the following enhancements, being able to bestow them to her sword through use of Enchanted Blade: Speed, Brilliant Energy, Dancing, or Vorpal. She learns an additional enhancement from the above every five levels after 20th. Instead of preparing a single Enchanted Blade IV ability a Blade Dancer may prepare two Enchanted Blade III abilities in the same "slot" allowing the Blade Dancer to benefit from both of them simultaneously. At 20th level, a Blade Dancer may only benefit from Enchanted Blade IV abilities for a total of 1 minute per day, split up as she desires. At every 5th level beyond 20th this time increases by 1 minute. Acrobatic Strike: At 6th level, as long as you attack by jumping at least 10 feet toward your opponent, jumping down at least 10 feet onto your opponent or swinging on a rope or similar object into your opponent covering at least a 10 foot distance, you gain a +1 bonus to your attack roll and deal an additional 1d6 damage with the attack. The Blade Dancer must make a jump check; if the result is less than 10 feet, he cannot use this ability on that attack. If the result is greater than the distance between the Blade Dancer and the opponent, the Blade Dancer can limit the distance to that between himself and the opponent as a free action. Every 5 levels after 6th you get a further +1 bonus to your attack rolls when using Acrobatic Strike and deal an extra 1d6 damage (+1/1d6 at 6th level, +2/2d6 at 11th, and +3/3d6 at 17th level). Acrobatic Charge: As the Swashbuckler special ability. Purity of Body: As the Monk special ability. The Gods Smile: As the Swashbuckler special ability, Lucky, usable once per day. Wholeness of Body: As the Monk special ability. Acrobatic Skill Mastery: As the Swashbuckler special ability. Abundant Step: As the Monk special ability. Timeless Body: As the Monk special ability. Tongue of the Sun and Moon: As the Monk special ability. Empty Body: As the Monk special ability. Perfect Self: As the Monk special ability. Blade Dancer Spell List Cantrips - Read Magic, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Touch of Fatigue, Mage Hand, Mend, Message, Open/Close 1st level - Hold Portal, Mount, Obscuring Mist, Comprehend Languages, Identify, True Strike, Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Ray of Enfeeblement, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon, Vertigo (PHBII), Whirling Blade (SC), Accelerated Movement (SC), Bigby's Tripping Hand (PHBII), Rouse (PHBII), Stand (PHBII), Chill Touch, Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos, Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos, Sanctuary, 2nd level - Protection from Arrows, Fog Cloud, Melf's Acid Arrow, Gust of Wind, Scorching Ray, Blur, Mirror Image, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Levitate, Owl's Wisdom, Spider Climb, Whispering Wind, Lesser Luminous Assassin (PHBII), Life Bolt (SC), Dimension Hop (PHBII), Animalistic Power (PHBII), Stretch Weapon (PHBII), Align Weapon, Calm Emotions, Consecrate/Desecrate, Make Whole, Lesser Restoration, Rain of Needles (CA) 3rd level - Sleet Storm, Fireball, Ray of Exhaustion, Blink, Fly, Haste, Keen Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Slow, Melf's Unicorn Arrow (PHBII), Prismatic Mist (PHBII), Legion of Sentinels (PHBII), Vertigo Field (PHBII), Regal Procession (SC), False Gravity (SC), Steeldance (SC), Halt (PHBII), Regroup (PHBII), Invisibility Purge, Magic Circle against Evil/Good/Law/Chaos, Water Breathing, Water Walk, Ring of Blades (SC), Stoneskin, Poison Needles (CA) 4th level - Solid Fog, Ice Storm, Wall of Fire, Luminous Assassin (PHBII), Dancing Blade (PHBII), Sword of Deception (SC), Wingbind (SC), Cyclonic Blast (SC), Shadow Form (SC), Baleful Blink (SC), Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Hallow/Unhallow, Spell Resistance, True Seeing, Blade Barrier, Restoration, Panacea (SC), Sheltered Vitality (SC), Magic Convalescence (PBII), Spirit Needle (CA), Chasing Perfection (PHBII)
Spikes01k 10-09-07, 09:57 AM	Looks interesting... But I would suggest dropping the fort save to intermediate rather than full or poor, and I would hope we can balance this to have a D8 hit die because other wise it is not too viable melee type IMPO. Intermediate saves are poor saves but with a +1 at level 2, 11, and 20. similar to the scout's battle fortitude.
bkdubs123 10-09-07, 10:13 AM	So can I assume that right now you fear it is too powerful/has too many class features for a d8 hit die? Because it does have d8 currently. I could go for dropping fort down to poor even, I just thought it made some sense to stay with the Monk's tradition of all good saves.
GnomeNinja5 10-09-07, 11:34 AM	Looks very similar to the class in the Dragon Compendium...
bkdubs123 10-09-07, 03:17 PM	In the... Dragon Compendium? Can I assume you mean the class Battle Dancer? If so I really have to wonder how you think the classes look "very similar." They share literally none of the same traits. Oh, wait, they do share, "Fast Movement." Which was borrowed from the Monk, not the Battle Dancer. And yes I suppose the names sound similar, but again the name for this class and the abilities created for it came from the prestige class with the SAME name - something I admit to in the text BEFORE the picture even. Having said all that I can only assume you did not look at this class at all closely... *sigh* I would have accepted, "Looks very similar to the Monk..." because it does have a lot of Monk features, but you apparently didn't notice that... *sigh*
bkdubs123 10-11-07, 04:37 PM	BUMP! Any feedback?
bkdubs123 10-13-07, 06:10 PM	Now with working class features! (Rebalanced Enchanted Blade and added everything you actually need to know about how it works. Fixed the wording in Spellstoring Sword so that it actually makes sense.)
bkdubs123 10-13-07, 07:50 PM	Changed Spell list. The Blade Dancer now uses its own spell list, however it is incomplete. The Blade Dancer will have a bigger spell list than the Duskblade as it must prepare its spells and has fewer per day.
rampant 10-15-07, 07:00 PM	Well I think Still mind, and wholeness of body, could probably be dropped, along with perfect self. Keeping those abilities is only really justified if this is a monk varient, and you've changed it so much that, I don't think this is an actual monk varient.
bkdubs123 10-15-07, 11:22 PM	I disagree, however it is more with how the actual Monk class itself is expressed than it is with your statement. This actually can be considered a Monk variant, although yes you are right it is quite different. It is certainly a type of martial artist. I think the monk abilities, Still Mind, Wholeness of Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, fit in very well with this sort of academic warrior flavor given to the Blade Dancer what with its introspective study of the body and its external study of the arcane arts. The abilities almost make even more sense for a Blade Dancer in my mind, than they do for a core Monk. Think of this class as a sort of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon sort of martial artist. All of the physical perfection you'd expect of an unarmed monk, but with exceptional swordplay rather than formidable hand-to-hand combat. This is your Sword Saint type character.
bkdubs123 10-19-07, 03:10 AM	Yep, I'm bumping again. I gotta get some feedback here.
rampant 10-19-07, 04:52 AM	Well Let me start off with a nit pick, Either ditch Tounge of sun and moon, or take the tounges spell off the list. Its redundant. What is this leap of the heavens bonusfeat and what does it do/where can Ilook it up? Next it's too powerfull, you need to cut something, the reason I suggest cutting wholeness of body is well it doesn't have any curing spells, so I thought the healing power might be ditchable. I think you need to look at alot of the lesser abilities and see if they don't already have a spell at that level that can do the same or better
Man-Rata 10-19-07, 10:57 AM	Spellstoring Sword: The ability in itself is ok, but you should not be allowed to either charge or discharge more than one spell at a time. If you use it as it is, you can as an example at level 10 deal an extra 25d4 + 25 force damage on a succesful hit, and do it again the round after. Granted you cannot do it more than 1 or 2 times a day, but it will destroy more or less anything on your current level. Enchanted blade: The duration of enchanted blade is too long, 1 min/level space out as you want, is the same as every combat you are in. Change it to 2-3 rounds per level, or somthing similar, since just 5 minutes is more than the collected combats are going to take. When you activate the ability, is the abilities then active? Holy, Flaming and the like normally takes a standard action to activate. Saves: Drop Fort as a good Save, doesn't make any sense thematically There also alot of the other abilities that doesn't really fit with style, but that's ok.
RobbyPants 10-19-07, 11:11 AM	Consider changing the flurry from the 3.0 version (a static -2 penalty) to the 3.5 version, where you build in a second progression into the class chart. As you gain levels, the penalties begin to drop away. Looks interesting... But I would suggest dropping the fort save to intermediate rather than full or poor, and I would hope we can balance this to have a D8 hit die because other wise it is not too viable melee type IMPO. Intermediate saves are poor saves but with a +1 at level 2, 11, and 20. similar to the scout's battle fortitude. Another option that has precidence in published materials is to give the bonus you suggest as a class feature on top of the poor save progression, similar to the Ref bonus of the Swashbuckler, or the Fort bonus of the Scout. The actual value of the save in the table remains poor, but it's taken into account with class features. Perhaps this is what you were getting at all along.
bkdubs123 10-19-07, 02:11 PM	Spellstoring Sword: The ability in itself is ok, but you should not be allowed to either charge or discharge more than one spell at a time. If you use it as it is, you can as an example at level 10 deal an extra 25d4 + 25 force damage on a succesful hit, and do it again the round after. Granted you cannot do it more than 1 or 2 times a day, but it will destroy more or less anything on your current level. How? How in god's name can a 10th level Bladedancer deal an extra 25d4+25 force damage to his attack even once a day? At 10th level you can store up 5 spell levels in your sword at one time. This means 5 first level spells (all you'd have), one 2nd and one 3rd, or any combination equalling 5. What that means is a couple times a day I could hit for 5d4+5 force damage. That's it. I have no idea where you're getting the other 20d4+20 from. Enchanted blade: The duration of enchanted blade is too long, 1 min/level space out as you want, is the same as every combat you are in. Change it to 2-3 rounds per level, or somthing similar, since just 5 minutes is more than the collected combats are going to take. When you activate the ability, is the abilities then active? Holy, Flaming and the like normally takes a standard action to activate. This was suggested by a friend of mine, but I'm not sure I want to lower the duration to rounds. That's such a short period of time. I think I may have a fix. I'll also bump the activation to move action. Yes, when you activate the the ability the ability is active... how is that not explained in the description? Saves: Drop Fort as a good Save, doesn't make any sense thematically There also alot of the other abilities that doesn't really fit with style, but that's ok. Well, the good fort save does make sense thematically, but I can also support taking it out, which I think I will. What other abilities do you not think fit the style, elaborate so that I can address them. @RobbyPants: You'll notice that I didn't write up a chart, but if you'll read the description of flurry of blades I did eliminate the penalty gradually exactly as a Monk's flurry. I am just going to lower the fort save to poor, I think. Gosh, I don't want to, but I think it makes the best sense overall. @Rampant: I'm not going to ditch abilities like empty body, or wholeness of body. I feel like they have a strong place with this character. I may through out the tongues spell or the Sun and Moon ability. I think I was so loathe to ditch the ability simply because it sounds so cool. I'll think about which one I want to cut and what that means for the character and cut one. Okay, so the general consensus is that it is too powerful. I understand, it gets a lot of abilities, a lot of bonuses, and can do a lot of cool stuff. I want to see it playtested sometime soon. Maybe someone can run it through the gauntlet for me and see how it fares. That should be a good test of this class.
Man-Rata 10-19-07, 03:47 PM	How? How in god's name can a 10th level Bladedancer deal an extra 25d4+25 force damage to his attack even once a day? At 10th level you can store up 5 spell levels in your sword at one time. This means 5 first level spells (all you'd have), one 2nd and one 3rd, or any combination equalling 5. What that means is a couple times a day I could hit for 5d4+5 force damage. That's it. I have no idea where you're getting the other 20d4+20 from. At 10th level you can store 5 Magic Missiles in the sword (a move action), since you are level 10, they each deak 5d4 + 5 damage. You then discharge all 5 as you attack the target (Standard action) that's 25d4 +25 damage. At level 20 the same trick with 15 Magic Missiles would yield 75d4 + 75 damage (150 - 375 ~ 252 damage)
imakuni67 10-19-07, 04:22 PM	You really have just too much stuff in this build, with at least 1 ability at each level. You can make this monk like without giving it all the monk abilities, since it has spells for one thing. This build just seems too crammed and not sure on which way it's going. All this isn't really needed to make a good class. It almost makes the monk feel bad because the blade dancer can do everything that he can do except with a blade AND he gets spells.... Acrobatic Charge: As the Swashbuckler special ability. Purity of Body: As the Monk special ability. The Gods Smile: As the Swashbuckler special ability, Lucky, usable once per day. Wholeness of Body: As the Monk special ability. Acrobatic Skill Mastery: As the Swashbuckler special ability. Diamond Soul: As the Monk special ability. Abundant Step: As the Monk special ability. Timeless Body: As the Monk special ability. Tongue of the Sun and Moon: As the Monk special ability. Slippery Mind: As the Rogue special ability. Empty Body: As the Monk special ability. Perfect Self: As the Monk special ability.
bkdubs123 10-19-07, 04:26 PM	Oh, I guess, you're right. Holy crap, I haven't looked at Magic Missile in the entirely of 3.5 maybe even 3e! lol! I thought it was 5 magic missiles at like level 20 or something! Hmm, well, what would you recommend I do to change the Spellstoring Sword ability? Hmm... so obviously the process needs to take longer... because yeah. Or maybe if I just took magic missile off the spell list?
imakuni67 10-19-07, 04:40 PM	I think the easier solution would be give them the same spellcasting progression as the ranger, but as arcane spells and 1/2 caster level. This class just seems overpowered as it casts almost as good as a bard, has all of the monk's abilities, and a bunch of other abilities.
bkdubs123 10-19-07, 05:12 PM	Hmm, actually I could do that. I'm still going to give it spells from level 1 (since the Ranger and Paladin really ought to get them from 1st as well), but the half caster levels thing is perfectly understandable. I'll just completely eliminate the 5th level of its spell list then. Right?
rampant 10-19-07, 06:33 PM	How about setting a limit on how many stored spells can be unleashed at once. And for the love of d20 don't turn this into a half caster! Reduce the spell list, eliminate 5th level spells, do whatever you want but keep the caster level up. Seriously though a lot of the abilities like perfect self and such can be equaled or surpassed by a spell on the list already. Consider perfect self for instance, a stone skin spell offers far better protection than that glorified space holder.
tygreen101 10-19-07, 07:33 PM	The Blade Dancer Acrobatics: At 2nd level a Blade Dancer's agile nature begins to come easier than ever. She gains a +2 bonus to balance, jump and tumble. This bonus increases by +2 every two levels after 2nd. there are some other problems with this class concept, but no one has noticed this one. +2 to 4 skills at level 2 is ok. but then you improve this by an additional +2 every 2 levels? so at level 20 he has a +20 to all 4 of these skills? why should he put ANY skill points into any of these skills? so he can have 23 skill points + 20 from class bonus + dex and maybe throw in a feat or 2? so you have a +43 without adding dex bonus. the default rules say that you can't fumble skills so are you trying to tumble through 4 mobs and backstab the last one? you are basically giving this class 4 more skill points each level that have to be used on those 4 skills.
bkdubs123 10-20-07, 09:57 AM	@Rampant: Okay, I can give him full caster level back. That was a last second addition on my part at no one's urging, so easy enough to take back. As far as your concern about the various buffs being the same or better as some of her class features, well that just gives her a reason perhaps not to take those spells, OR at least a way to stretch her spellcasting out to wait until she REALLY needs them. I have an idea to make Spellstoring Sword work. Thanks for the urging! @Tygreen101: There already exists the Blade Dancer from Oriental Adventures which gives a staggering +30 to those skills in 10 levels. There are still other PrCs that give ridiculous bonuses to skills as class features, I don't see why that has to be the purview of PrCs only. If you still think its too much of a bonus for a base class I could amend it to give +2 at 2nd level, +5 at 8th level and +10 at 15th level. Also, you mention other problems to the design, or rather the concept, of the class - what problems do you see?
Andorxor 10-20-07, 04:45 PM	You have a copy and paste error in Enchanted Blade IV. She learns an additional enhancement from the above every five levels after 15th
bkdubs123 10-20-07, 04:59 PM	Oops! Thanks for the head's up! Quite a thorough observation! Well, there have been many changes to the class recently, do you have any thoughts Andorxor?
tygreen101 10-20-07, 05:41 PM	@Tygreen101: There already exists the Blade Dancer from Oriental Adventures which gives a staggering +30 to those skills in 10 levels. There are still other PrCs that give ridiculous bonuses to skills as class features, I don't see why that has to be the purview of PrCs only. If you still think its too much of a bonus for a base class I could amend it to give +2 at 2nd level, +5 at 8th level and +10 at 15th level. Also, you mention other problems to the design, or rather the concept, of the class - what problems do you see? I absolutely LOVE the concept. you have created a class that fits the fighter/mage concept that I feel was designed well. now, yes AC(Abjurant Champion) in CM goes very far to giving me my martial mage who defends with magic AND attacks with it. but back to your Blade Dancer, you have basically taken the monk lowered the 1 save to poor, dropped it's AC bonus to a single target and removed the improved unarmed damage and in it's place given some arcane casting and naturally enchanted his blade. ... as much as I LOVE the concept, I feel that overall it's more powerful than the existing base classes. but I don't have any advice on what to reduce. I wish that WOTC would release a point buy chart that allows you to create a new class using it and guarantee that anything built using this chart will be fair and balanced. but then I also know that there are some people that don't worry about the different classes being balanced class concept is everything and if some classes are more powerful than other classes that's ok. cause concept is everything. maybe I should start a thread. "What's more important: class balance or class concept?" and see how many people respond with their thoughts. in conclusion: I feel that conceptually, it is a beautiful class. I do feel it is more powerful than the other base classes, but that is my opinion.
bkdubs123 10-20-07, 06:37 PM	Well, thanks for the praise on the concept (even if it is half blantant thievery, and a complete mishmash of other concepts)! It does have potential to be a little more powerful than existing base classes, but I have to wonder if it really is once compared to the ToB classes or standard Cleric/Wizard or even the Duskblade. Yes as the disclaimer says it is more powerful than the Monk, but the Monk is a bastard child of several mechanics that don't necessarily synergize well. I was hoping to remedy that criticism with the various concepts and mechanics of this class. I am still considering lowering the acrobatics progression, and again ALL FEEDBACK IS WELCOME!
Ultima0071 11-06-07, 06:36 PM	Beatiful class, but isn't 120 ft. at level 20 a little much? That's 480 ft. per turn when running lol. That would hurt SO MUCH when charging :evillaugh
bkdubs123 11-06-07, 09:08 PM	Beatiful class, but isn't 120 ft. at level 20 a little much? That's 480 ft. per turn when running lol. That would hurt SO MUCH when charging :evillaugh What do you mean 120ft at level 20? Its a 60ft speed increase just like the monk. So at level 20 its 90ft. Thanks for the compliment though :D
rampant 11-07-07, 12:10 AM	Leap of the heavens is a non-ability in 3.5 the limit on jump is no longer part of the skill and as such that ability is not necessary.
bkdubs123 11-07-07, 12:53 AM	Holy. Crap. You're right. How could I have missed that?
rampant 11-07-07, 01:42 AM	*coughcutpastecough*
rampant 11-07-07, 01:44 AM	I still Think a lot of the minor monk abilities could be replaced by spells. Owl's wisdom tops Still mind easy for example and failing a replacement of still mind, consider that while this is very similar to a monk, it is primarily intelligence based so changing still mind to counter illusions rather than enchantments might be a flavor point
bkdubs123 11-07-07, 02:34 AM	I've been thinking of tweaking his class features a lot recently especially considering how similarly constructed the Blade Dancer and the Highwayman are (medium bab, two good saves, 4 spell levels, lots of class features, yadda, yadda). The first things to go would likely be Still Mind and Slippery Mind. I'm not sure what I'd replace them with though, if anything.
rampant 11-07-07, 12:37 PM	Honestly I'd ditch still mind entirely and move evasion to third level.
bkdubs123 11-07-07, 04:03 PM	Okay, ditched Still Mind, ditched Slippery Mind, ditched Diamond Soul. Bumped Fast Movement down by 10ft over the twenty levels. (Acrobatics also got bumped down a while ago, don't know if anyone noticed). Added Spellgrace +2 at second level which improves by +1 every eight levels thereafter. Bumped the spellcasting up one class level for each spell level (I noticed it got access to spells a tad late). What do you think about the changes?