Bladesinger as a base class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bladesinger as a base class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MindWandererB
11-26-05, 08:20 PM A thread started by Zijaerdran asked about how to fix the bladesinger class to make it more usable. Seerow suggested making it a base class instead. I liked the idea so much I did it. Feedback invited.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Bladesingers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength is as helpful to a bladesinger as it is to any melee combatant, and Dexterity is helpful both because bladesingers wear only light armor and to help her utilize the bladedance ability. Intelligence is important for the bladesinger’s casting ability. Constitution is less important to a bladesinger than it is to other spellcasters due to her bladedance ability (see below), although it is still important for the bonus hit points.
Race: Elf or half-elf.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Base Attack Bonus: Medium (as bard).
Base Saving Throw Bonuses: Fortitude poor, Reflex and Will good (as bard).

Class Skills
The bladesinger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana, art and architecture, martial, nobility and royalty) (Int), Perform (Cha), Spellcraft (Int), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill points at 1st level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifer.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the bladesinger.
Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Bladesingers are proficient with all simple weapons, the rapier, short sword, and long sword, and with light armor, but not with shields. Note all applicable armor check penalties. The bladesinger practices casting spells in armor, and can therefore cast bladesinger spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, a bladesinger wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a shield suffers the normal arcane spell failure chance.

Spells: A bladesinger casts arcane spells which are drawn from a subset of the spells available to wizards and sorcerers. She must prepare and cast her spells the way a wizard must. She can prepare any spell which is in her spellbook, which works the same way that a wizard’s spellbook does.
To learn or cast a spell, a bladesinger must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bladesinger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the bladesinger’s Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an bladesinger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is identical to that of the bard (see p. 27 of the Player’s Handbook). In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.
The bladesinger’s class spell list consists of all spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list belonging to the schools of abjuration, conjuration, divination, evocation, and transmutation. A 1st level bladesinger begins play with all such 0-level spells (cantrips) in her spellbook. Every time she acquires a new level of bladesinger, she may add two new spells to her spellbook of any spell level she can cast.
The bladesinger’s caster level is equal to ľ of her class level (minimum 1).

Bladesong Style (Ex): When wielding a longsword, shortsword, or rapier in one hand (and nothing in the other), a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level, up to a maximum of her Intelligence bonus. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor or carries a medium or heavy load, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style.

Bladedance (Ex): A bladesinger in combat moves like a dancer, whirling and spinning beautifully as she cuts, parries, and casts. This ability allows her to make a Perform (dance) check using her Dexterity modifier instead of her Charisma modifier in place of a Concentration check made to cast defensively.
At 6th level, the bladesinger may take 10 when making a Perform (dance) check to cast defensively.

Song of Celerity (Ex): The bladesinger learns to cast spells in combat even while attacking or moving. Once per day, a bladesinger can quicken a single spell as if she had used the Quicken Spell feat, but without any adjustment to the spell’s effective level. She can use this ability only while wielding a longsword, shortsword, or rapier in one hand and nothing in the other.
The bladesinger may use this ability one additional time per day for every four class levels she has attained (twice at 4th level, three times as 8th level, up to 6 times per day at 20th level).

Song of Fury (Ex): At 11th level, a bladesinger who makes a full attack with a longsword, shortsword, or rapier in one hand and nothing in the other can make one additional attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack and each other attack made in that round take a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the bladesinger might make before her next action.
At 20th level, the bladesinger may make a second additional attack at her highest base attack bonus. All attacks made in the round take a -2 penalty as before.
MindWandererB
11-27-05, 06:49 PM Nobody has any opinions? I wanted to make a class that had the feel of the old elven fighter/mage, but without stealing the thunder of real fighters and wizards (as the old bladesingers tended to do).
Otto the Bugbear
11-27-05, 07:11 PM 1. Give it weapon familiarity with the "elven" weapons as well (courtblade, thinblade).

Other than that, I'd say it looks damn good. I can't wait to fry one up with some potatoes. :P

I might limit the conjuration and divination to, perhaps, 4th level spells max., but that's pretty minor. Especially with several schools already eliminated and using the bard progression.

I really like the dex to perform instead of charisma. I always wondered why some perform functions use charisma while they're certainly more dexterity based (dance and juggling come to mind).

Cheers

Otto :)
MindWandererB
11-27-05, 08:20 PM 1. Give it weapon familiarity with the "elven" weapons as well (courtblade, thinblade).
Except for the fact that I don't use those in my game, adding the thinblade and lightblade sounds like a great idea. I just can't imagine a blade that's smaller and thinner than a rapier that just doesn't snap in two when it hits armor point-first, nor can I imagine any reason why someone proficient with a rapier wouldn't be able to proficiently use such a thing. Exotic weapons are supposed to be difficult to wield, not difficult to construct properly.

Now, I wouldn't be at all opposed to such a weapon if the lightblade shared proficiency with the shortsword, and the thinblade shared proficiency with the rapier, but the weapons had to be constructed out of mithral or adamantine. This, to me, makes sense.

Now, the courtblade makes sense to me as-is. A finessable greatsword certainly requires special training to use effectively. Now that I think of it, I think I'll add it to my house rules right now. Unfortunately, the bladesinger specializes in one-handed fighting style, so allowing it to be used in this case isn't going to fly.
Seerow
11-27-05, 10:35 PM Wow, someone took my advice to heart. Im touched.

Class looks good overall. When I first saw it the full casting progression scared me, then I read closer and realized how much it had been watered down, which makes up for the martial prowess. I might use this whenever I get around to DMing.
nonsi
11-28-05, 01:24 AM 1. Bladesong Style - no point in limiting AC bonus to level.

2. the thinblade is the most appropriate weapon for an elf-only, "one-hand no-off-hand", sword specialist.

3. the Bladesinger should have reduced arcene spell failure (automatically, or with level progression)

4. she shold be compelled to maximize Perform (dance).

5. I would consider allowing her to specialize.

6. 3/4 casting level (8th spell level at level 20) sounds a bit too much for a dual functionality class. she would benefit to cast spells just like a bard (and without preparations).

other than that, excelent work.
MindWandererB
11-28-05, 04:11 AM 1. Bladesong Style - no point in limiting AC bonus to level.
Yes, there is. To prevent dipping. This is less of an issue for something like a monk, which gets no armor at all, but without a cap to bladesong style based on level, it's just asking to be dipped into by rogues, rangers, etc.

2. the thinblade is the most appropriate weapon for an elf-only, "one-hand no-off-hand", sword specialist.
Well, I mainly wanted to keep the feel of the 2E bladesinger, which, IMO, is the only reason they exist in 3E anyway. However, I have agreed that, if you allow thinblades (and lightblades) in your game, they should certainly be added to the allowed weapons, and even to the automatic proficiencies.

3. the Bladesinger should have reduced arcene spell failure (automatically, or with level progression)
It does. Check under "armor and weapon proficiencies."

4. she shold be compelled to maximize Perform (dance).
I think substituting Perform (dance) checks for Concentration checks is an excellent reason to do just that, at least until you can cast level 6 spells defensively with no chance of failure (total modifier=+11). I suppose taking out the ability to take 10 on this check would force you to put even more points in, but you're already splitting points between Concentration and Perform (since perform doesn't help you cast spells during a grapple, in a swarm, etc.). I'm not going to mess with it.

5. I would consider allowing her to specialize.
Easily enough accomplished, although it's already getting only five schools of magic. Reducing that to three would be a pretty heavy cost.

6. 3/4 casting level (8th spell level at level 20) sounds a bit too much for a dual functionality class. she would benefit to cast spells just like a bard (and without preparations).
Bladesingers have always been fighter/wizards, and thus cast spells with a spellbook. They're supposed to be a combination of martial and magical lore, which works better as a wizard-type. Also, bards get full caster level, so that wouldn't help at all. Note that the spells per day are already based on the bard. I definitely wanted to keep evocations on the list (no published class gets both evocations and decent combat skills). If I were to cut the caster level down to 1/2 class level, you might as well just be a Fighter10/Wizard10.
Otto the Bugbear
11-28-05, 07:26 AM Bladesingers have always been fighter/wizards, and thus cast spells with a spellbook. They're supposed to be a combination of martial and magical lore, which works better as a wizard-type. Also, bards get full caster level, so that wouldn't help at all. Note that the spells per day are already based on the bard. I definitely wanted to keep evocations on the list (no published class gets both evocations and decent combat skills). If I were to cut the caster level down to 1/2 class level, you might as well just be a Fighter10/Wizard10.

I'm going to step back in to support keeping it the way you have it. Bard casting tables + 3/4 caster level is fine. Consider it at various levels:
8th level = 3rd level spells and 6th caster level.
10th level = 4th level spells and 7th caster level.
15th level = 5th level spells and 11th caster level.
20th level = 6th level spells and 15th caster level.

Seems pretty fine to me. Especially with the bard BAB and saves and the reduced hit die.

It's basically a variant bard. Lose music, gain martial stuff.

Cheers

Otto :)
BadCatMan
11-28-05, 09:06 AM Woot! A Int-based Arcane casting combat base class.

I like the symmetry between the full caster and semi-caster combat base classes:

Druid - Ranger
Cleric - Paladin (and variants)
Sorcerer - Hexblade

So it's nice to add:

Wizard - Bladesinger

Those semi-caster combat base classes share some similarities:
Ranger: d10, full BAB, 4th level spells, animal companion
Paladin: d10, full BAB, 4th level spells, special mount
Hexblade: d10, full BAB, 4th level spells, familiar

So I'd suggest giving the Bladesinger a d10 HD, full BAB, spellcasting up to 4th level only (like the classes above), and a familiar (like the Hexblade). It just feels right to me. Symmetry is pleasing. :)

The abilities seem a little sparse - there's enough to pack into a 10 level PrC, but spread across 20 levels, it may be a little thin, IMO. Perhaps you could throw in the bonus feats of the 3.0 Bladesinger. Maybe at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 (like the Hexblade).
Votan
11-28-05, 10:18 AM I'm going to step back in to support keeping it the way you have it. Bard casting tables + 3/4 caster level is fine. Consider it at various levels:
8th level = 3rd level spells and 6th caster level.
10th level = 4th level spells and 7th caster level.
15th level = 5th level spells and 11th caster level.
20th level = 6th level spells and 15th caster level.

Seems pretty fine to me. Especially with the bard BAB and saves and the reduced hit die.

It's basically a variant bard. Lose music, gain martial stuff.

Cheers

Otto :)

I'd argue that full caster progression is probably a better idea. bards have it and it doesn't cost much to slip it in but it can make a big difference when spell resistence and duration matter.

For Perform (Dance) I'd link it to one of the abilities of the character. Defensive casting was a decetn choice but then it merely replaces concentration. Requiring a check to quicken a spell (failure=spell lost) would create incentives to maximize this ability as well as automatically make high level quickens occur at higher levels.
StevenO
11-28-05, 06:06 PM Not bad.

Since you are using the Bard's spell progression instead of a wizards I'd recommend only allowing one free spell per level instead of two. As far as I'm concerned the 3/4 caster level may be a little confusing and should dropped for full power casting like a bard possesses. I'd also give it its own spell list instead of just basing it on the arcane schools to have better control of what spells are available. Other than those minor changes I'd consider using this as its combat power is greater than the bards but it shouldn't have the versatility in other situations.
Zerchai
12-01-05, 11:14 AM Here's a strange thought, but I think it works interestingly well with the Bladesinger class as presented so far - rather than a 3/4 caster level progression, or a full caster progression, how about making the Bladesinger's caster level equal to her base attack bonus? Going 20 levels of Bladesinger would accomplish the same 3/4 progression (caster level 15 at level 20), but allows for some interesting prestige class/multiclass considerations (do I go into a prestige class that increases my spells/day but slows my caster level due to a reduced bab, or do I go into a fighter-type class that improves my bab and therefor caster level, but stunts my spellcasting capability?)

Edit: It also makes things much easier to keep track of rather than having to figure out what 3/4 of your spellcasting levels are. Just my opinion - hopefully it's a good one. Also, only a minor thing - but I would give Bladesingers diplomacy as a class skill (probably instead of intimidate) because in addition to their martial prowess, they also tend to have courtly duties. I'd also throw in bluff as a class skill because Feinting in combat seems very Bladesinger-y to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MindWandererB 11-26-05, 08:20 PM	A thread started by Zijaerdran asked about how to fix the bladesinger class to make it more usable. Seerow suggested making it a base class instead. I liked the idea so much I did it. Feedback invited. GAME RULE INFORMATION Bladesingers have the following game statistics. Abilities: Strength is as helpful to a bladesinger as it is to any melee combatant, and Dexterity is helpful both because bladesingers wear only light armor and to help her utilize the bladedance ability. Intelligence is important for the bladesinger’s casting ability. Constitution is less important to a bladesinger than it is to other spellcasters due to her bladedance ability (see below), although it is still important for the bonus hit points. Race: Elf or half-elf. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d8. Base Attack Bonus: Medium (as bard). Base Saving Throw Bonuses: Fortitude poor, Reflex and Will good (as bard). Class Skills The bladesinger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana, art and architecture, martial, nobility and royalty) (Int), Perform (Cha), Spellcraft (Int), and Tumble (Dex). Skill points at 1st level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifer. Class Features All of the following are class features of the bladesinger. Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Bladesingers are proficient with all simple weapons, the rapier, short sword, and long sword, and with light armor, but not with shields. Note all applicable armor check penalties. The bladesinger practices casting spells in armor, and can therefore cast bladesinger spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, a bladesinger wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a shield suffers the normal arcane spell failure chance. Spells: A bladesinger casts arcane spells which are drawn from a subset of the spells available to wizards and sorcerers. She must prepare and cast her spells the way a wizard must. She can prepare any spell which is in her spellbook, which works the same way that a wizard’s spellbook does. To learn or cast a spell, a bladesinger must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a bladesinger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the bladesinger’s Intelligence modifier. Like other spellcasters, an bladesinger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is identical to that of the bard (see p. 27 of the Player’s Handbook). In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score. The bladesinger’s class spell list consists of all spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list belonging to the schools of abjuration, conjuration, divination, evocation, and transmutation. A 1st level bladesinger begins play with all such 0-level spells (cantrips) in her spellbook. Every time she acquires a new level of bladesinger, she may add two new spells to her spellbook of any spell level she can cast. The bladesinger’s caster level is equal to ľ of her class level (minimum 1). Bladesong Style (Ex): When wielding a longsword, shortsword, or rapier in one hand (and nothing in the other), a bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to half her class level, up to a maximum of her Intelligence bonus. If the bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor or carries a medium or heavy load, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. Bladedance (Ex): A bladesinger in combat moves like a dancer, whirling and spinning beautifully as she cuts, parries, and casts. This ability allows her to make a Perform (dance) check using her Dexterity modifier instead of her Charisma modifier in place of a Concentration check made to cast defensively. At 6th level, the bladesinger may take 10 when making a Perform (dance) check to cast defensively. Song of Celerity (Ex): The bladesinger learns to cast spells in combat even while attacking or moving. Once per day, a bladesinger can quicken a single spell as if she had used the Quicken Spell feat, but without any adjustment to the spell’s effective level. She can use this ability only while wielding a longsword, shortsword, or rapier in one hand and nothing in the other. The bladesinger may use this ability one additional time per day for every four class levels she has attained (twice at 4th level, three times as 8th level, up to 6 times per day at 20th level). Song of Fury (Ex): At 11th level, a bladesinger who makes a full attack with a longsword, shortsword, or rapier in one hand and nothing in the other can make one additional attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack and each other attack made in that round take a -2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the bladesinger might make before her next action. At 20th level, the bladesinger may make a second additional attack at her highest base attack bonus. All attacks made in the round take a -2 penalty as before.
MindWandererB 11-27-05, 06:49 PM	Nobody has any opinions? I wanted to make a class that had the feel of the old elven fighter/mage, but without stealing the thunder of real fighters and wizards (as the old bladesingers tended to do).
Otto the Bugbear 11-27-05, 07:11 PM	1. Give it weapon familiarity with the "elven" weapons as well (courtblade, thinblade). Other than that, I'd say it looks damn good. I can't wait to fry one up with some potatoes. :P I might limit the conjuration and divination to, perhaps, 4th level spells max., but that's pretty minor. Especially with several schools already eliminated and using the bard progression. I really like the dex to perform instead of charisma. I always wondered why some perform functions use charisma while they're certainly more dexterity based (dance and juggling come to mind). Cheers Otto :)
MindWandererB 11-27-05, 08:20 PM	1. Give it weapon familiarity with the "elven" weapons as well (courtblade, thinblade). Except for the fact that I don't use those in my game, adding the thinblade and lightblade sounds like a great idea. I just can't imagine a blade that's smaller and thinner than a rapier that just doesn't snap in two when it hits armor point-first, nor can I imagine any reason why someone proficient with a rapier wouldn't be able to proficiently use such a thing. Exotic weapons are supposed to be difficult to wield, not difficult to construct properly. Now, I wouldn't be at all opposed to such a weapon if the lightblade shared proficiency with the shortsword, and the thinblade shared proficiency with the rapier, but the weapons had to be constructed out of mithral or adamantine. This, to me, makes sense. Now, the courtblade makes sense to me as-is. A finessable greatsword certainly requires special training to use effectively. Now that I think of it, I think I'll add it to my house rules right now. Unfortunately, the bladesinger specializes in one-handed fighting style, so allowing it to be used in this case isn't going to fly.
Seerow 11-27-05, 10:35 PM	Wow, someone took my advice to heart. Im touched. Class looks good overall. When I first saw it the full casting progression scared me, then I read closer and realized how much it had been watered down, which makes up for the martial prowess. I might use this whenever I get around to DMing.
nonsi 11-28-05, 01:24 AM	1. Bladesong Style - no point in limiting AC bonus to level. 2. the thinblade is the most appropriate weapon for an elf-only, "one-hand no-off-hand", sword specialist. 3. the Bladesinger should have reduced arcene spell failure (automatically, or with level progression) 4. she shold be compelled to maximize Perform (dance). 5. I would consider allowing her to specialize. 6. 3/4 casting level (8th spell level at level 20) sounds a bit too much for a dual functionality class. she would benefit to cast spells just like a bard (and without preparations). other than that, excelent work.
MindWandererB 11-28-05, 04:11 AM	1. Bladesong Style - no point in limiting AC bonus to level. Yes, there is. To prevent dipping. This is less of an issue for something like a monk, which gets no armor at all, but without a cap to bladesong style based on level, it's just asking to be dipped into by rogues, rangers, etc. 2. the thinblade is the most appropriate weapon for an elf-only, "one-hand no-off-hand", sword specialist. Well, I mainly wanted to keep the feel of the 2E bladesinger, which, IMO, is the only reason they exist in 3E anyway. However, I have agreed that, if you allow thinblades (and lightblades) in your game, they should certainly be added to the allowed weapons, and even to the automatic proficiencies. 3. the Bladesinger should have reduced arcene spell failure (automatically, or with level progression) It does. Check under "armor and weapon proficiencies." 4. she shold be compelled to maximize Perform (dance). I think substituting Perform (dance) checks for Concentration checks is an excellent reason to do just that, at least until you can cast level 6 spells defensively with no chance of failure (total modifier=+11). I suppose taking out the ability to take 10 on this check would force you to put even more points in, but you're already splitting points between Concentration and Perform (since perform doesn't help you cast spells during a grapple, in a swarm, etc.). I'm not going to mess with it. 5. I would consider allowing her to specialize. Easily enough accomplished, although it's already getting only five schools of magic. Reducing that to three would be a pretty heavy cost. 6. 3/4 casting level (8th spell level at level 20) sounds a bit too much for a dual functionality class. she would benefit to cast spells just like a bard (and without preparations). Bladesingers have always been fighter/wizards, and thus cast spells with a spellbook. They're supposed to be a combination of martial and magical lore, which works better as a wizard-type. Also, bards get full caster level, so that wouldn't help at all. Note that the spells per day are already based on the bard. I definitely wanted to keep evocations on the list (no published class gets both evocations and decent combat skills). If I were to cut the caster level down to 1/2 class level, you might as well just be a Fighter10/Wizard10.
Otto the Bugbear 11-28-05, 07:26 AM	Bladesingers have always been fighter/wizards, and thus cast spells with a spellbook. They're supposed to be a combination of martial and magical lore, which works better as a wizard-type. Also, bards get full caster level, so that wouldn't help at all. Note that the spells per day are already based on the bard. I definitely wanted to keep evocations on the list (no published class gets both evocations and decent combat skills). If I were to cut the caster level down to 1/2 class level, you might as well just be a Fighter10/Wizard10. I'm going to step back in to support keeping it the way you have it. Bard casting tables + 3/4 caster level is fine. Consider it at various levels: 8th level = 3rd level spells and 6th caster level. 10th level = 4th level spells and 7th caster level. 15th level = 5th level spells and 11th caster level. 20th level = 6th level spells and 15th caster level. Seems pretty fine to me. Especially with the bard BAB and saves and the reduced hit die. It's basically a variant bard. Lose music, gain martial stuff. Cheers Otto :)
BadCatMan 11-28-05, 09:06 AM	Woot! A Int-based Arcane casting combat base class. I like the symmetry between the full caster and semi-caster combat base classes: Druid - Ranger Cleric - Paladin (and variants) Sorcerer - Hexblade So it's nice to add: Wizard - Bladesinger Those semi-caster combat base classes share some similarities: Ranger: d10, full BAB, 4th level spells, animal companion Paladin: d10, full BAB, 4th level spells, special mount Hexblade: d10, full BAB, 4th level spells, familiar So I'd suggest giving the Bladesinger a d10 HD, full BAB, spellcasting up to 4th level only (like the classes above), and a familiar (like the Hexblade). It just feels right to me. Symmetry is pleasing. :) The abilities seem a little sparse - there's enough to pack into a 10 level PrC, but spread across 20 levels, it may be a little thin, IMO. Perhaps you could throw in the bonus feats of the 3.0 Bladesinger. Maybe at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20 (like the Hexblade).
Votan 11-28-05, 10:18 AM	I'm going to step back in to support keeping it the way you have it. Bard casting tables + 3/4 caster level is fine. Consider it at various levels: 8th level = 3rd level spells and 6th caster level. 10th level = 4th level spells and 7th caster level. 15th level = 5th level spells and 11th caster level. 20th level = 6th level spells and 15th caster level. Seems pretty fine to me. Especially with the bard BAB and saves and the reduced hit die. It's basically a variant bard. Lose music, gain martial stuff. Cheers Otto :) I'd argue that full caster progression is probably a better idea. bards have it and it doesn't cost much to slip it in but it can make a big difference when spell resistence and duration matter. For Perform (Dance) I'd link it to one of the abilities of the character. Defensive casting was a decetn choice but then it merely replaces concentration. Requiring a check to quicken a spell (failure=spell lost) would create incentives to maximize this ability as well as automatically make high level quickens occur at higher levels.
StevenO 11-28-05, 06:06 PM	Not bad. Since you are using the Bard's spell progression instead of a wizards I'd recommend only allowing one free spell per level instead of two. As far as I'm concerned the 3/4 caster level may be a little confusing and should dropped for full power casting like a bard possesses. I'd also give it its own spell list instead of just basing it on the arcane schools to have better control of what spells are available. Other than those minor changes I'd consider using this as its combat power is greater than the bards but it shouldn't have the versatility in other situations.
Zerchai 12-01-05, 11:14 AM	Here's a strange thought, but I think it works interestingly well with the Bladesinger class as presented so far - rather than a 3/4 caster level progression, or a full caster progression, how about making the Bladesinger's caster level equal to her base attack bonus? Going 20 levels of Bladesinger would accomplish the same 3/4 progression (caster level 15 at level 20), but allows for some interesting prestige class/multiclass considerations (do I go into a prestige class that increases my spells/day but slows my caster level due to a reduced bab, or do I go into a fighter-type class that improves my bab and therefor caster level, but stunts my spellcasting capability?) Edit: It also makes things much easier to keep track of rather than having to figure out what 3/4 of your spellcasting levels are. Just my opinion - hopefully it's a good one. Also, only a minor thing - but I would give Bladesingers diplomacy as a class skill (probably instead of intimidate) because in addition to their martial prowess, they also tend to have courtly duties. I'd also throw in bluff as a class skill because Feinting in combat seems very Bladesinger-y to me.