Blind Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Blind Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stealth-Elite
08-11-06, 02:37 AM In my DMs next game he is letting us pick our own chars and I kind of want to make a Ranger(archer) thats is blind and uses smell and sound to pick out targets and snipe them.

I think it would be interesting to try and play, but since hes blind his other senses should go up (in theory)

so should he get any + and - to skills like...

+8 to listen
-20 to spot (he is blind after all)

???

I would appriciate some input.
Ralvuimego
08-11-06, 04:39 AM Alright, there is only one major problem I can see with your character (I've tried something similar, but with Scout instead of Ranger.)

You will have an EXTREMELY hard time doing anything in the low levels, since it'll require a listen check much higher than 18 (Your nat. 10) to reliably locate a target. (My suggestion, take Blind-Fight ASAP, follow up with Hear The Unseen (CADV, pg 110) and Skill Focus (Listen))

Since there aren't any rules on pinpointing an opponent with listen other than Hear the Unseen, you might have to wait 'till level 3 before you're even modestly combat effective, even then if you max out your bonuses it'd stack up something like this.

(Note: I'm using Stealth's version of his blindness rules...)

(+8 blindness, +6 ranks, +3 skill focus (If you're human), +3 wis (I assume 16) leaves you at a +21 listen check. You'd be able to notice your enemy on a natural 4 with listen, unless they're your favored enemy, which comes out to a nat. 2 to locate. Until then, you'd be perfectly useless in a fight, as you'd have to come up with a means to locate your foes reliably.

I'd also say that you'd automatically fail any spot check instead of -20 to them, and you'd get -10 on any search checks, as you'd be searching it with your hands alone, and could not discern any visual details.

Also, you'd be helpless against any ethereal or incorporeal creature (Since they don't make noise) as well as any creature that flies without wings (See above) and you wouldn't be able to make full use of your bow. (Though be prepared to thoroughly annoy your DM whenever he asks "Roll a Listen check", since you're generally guarenteed to succeed :D )

As for the tracking foes by scent bit... I know of a PRC in the CADV that grants Scent as a class feature, The Beastmaster, but it's late on in the PRC and the class itself is mediocre at best.
VonRichthofen
08-11-06, 05:06 AM -20 to spot (he is blind after all)

???

I would appriciate some input.

No spot checks at all. How do you spot anything if you are blind? Replace any Spot checks with tough Listen/Scent checks. If not possible, no way of knowing.

If you want to play the Montolio II stuff, there's one big problem for the game to remember, though:

You'll have to be out of the room whenever the DM describes something you can't hear/smell - for knowing about things as a player WILL influence your actions as a character. That is hard to pull through. We had something like it a few years ago, but it ended up with the guy in question basically acting a little more carefully and therefore getting huge advantages when it came to listening & fighting invisible stuff.

For a solo adventure this might be viable, but with a group - no.
Not recommendable from my point of view.

As an other point, sniping without sight is basically impossible, no matter how keen your senses are. Even your role modell Monty uses an owl's call as "targeter".

If you really want to get through with this, I'd try and ask my DM wether your character has at least developed Tremorsense or even Blind Sight to get a rough idea about what is going on.

There are actually blind people trained to use sound emmanations/reflections to get a rough idea of their suroundings, in a crude & base attempt to copy a bat's echo-navigation system.
Quite amazing, if you think of it. But yes, it can be done in the real world.

Your character could have learned by some means the way a bat "sees" in absolute darkness and decided to copy the system so he gets at least a basic idea on what's what around him.

You could use a greatly modified listen check to get those basic impressions like "There's a building right in front of me", or even "That tree is a big one...", but hardly anything more.

Everything with a clear sound signature is easily heared by you, of course. No check needed to hear a normal person walking up to you...

Also, remember that during a battle, your system will most certainly not be accurate enough to pinpoint creatures that take great pains to hide their smell/sound signature. Go for the Hooter-route in this case.
Stealth-Elite
08-11-06, 11:27 AM since I cant use spot I wonder if my DM would let me change that skill to scent and treat it as its own check. or what about mixing that with tracking since thats how he would follow people anyway.

and I thought Blind fighting only worked for melee?
lint trap
08-11-06, 11:53 AM If you know someone who has the d20 Modern Core Rulebook, take a look at the Bat Moreau (pg. 248). Moreaus are human/animal hybrids, and "covert moreaus" look pretty much the same as humans do.

Anyway, it's a LA +0 race that suffers from light blindness, but gets 120 ft. blindsight. A bit overpowered, maybe, but it sounds like it would work for your build.
Thubby
08-11-06, 02:46 PM honestly, i'd iether scrap the character altogether. assuming you use RAW
you could go melie, much higher chance of hitting, (with blind fight you get a 75% of hitting instead of 50%)
i had a character who was blind, my dm was cool enough to make a special feat i could use
blindsight (ya unoriginal, but what ya gonna do)
prerequisits were: must be permanently blind(duh), blind fight, and like 5 ranks in listen.
it granted blind sight out to 30 feet.

a blind character actualy gets some very big advantages over normal ones, assuming you can climb the mountain of not being able to see, you are imune to gaze atks, low level illusions, and being blinded (it sounds retarted yes, but a character who could see, and is blinded, suffers worse than those already blind naturaly "-4 initiative and 1/2 movement")
Ralvuimego
08-11-06, 03:22 PM i had a character who was blind, my dm was cool enough to make a special feat i could use
blindsight (ya unoriginal, but what ya gonna do)
prerequisits were: must be permanently blind(duh), blind fight, and like 5 ranks in listen.
it granted blind sight out to 30 feet.

Honestly, that pretty much sums up Hear the Unseen, except you don't have to be blind and it takes a listen check.

(Am I giving up too much info on that feat? I'll edit it out if I am.)
Thubby
08-11-06, 04:19 PM this was before that book, when 3.5 was just getting started.
hear the unseen lets you ignore the 50% miss chance for being bind???? awesome!!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stealth-Elite 08-11-06, 02:37 AM	In my DMs next game he is letting us pick our own chars and I kind of want to make a Ranger(archer) thats is blind and uses smell and sound to pick out targets and snipe them. I think it would be interesting to try and play, but since hes blind his other senses should go up (in theory) so should he get any + and - to skills like... +8 to listen -20 to spot (he is blind after all) ??? I would appriciate some input.
Ralvuimego 08-11-06, 04:39 AM	Alright, there is only one major problem I can see with your character (I've tried something similar, but with Scout instead of Ranger.) You will have an EXTREMELY hard time doing anything in the low levels, since it'll require a listen check much higher than 18 (Your nat. 10) to reliably locate a target. (My suggestion, take Blind-Fight ASAP, follow up with Hear The Unseen (CADV, pg 110) and Skill Focus (Listen)) Since there aren't any rules on pinpointing an opponent with listen other than Hear the Unseen, you might have to wait 'till level 3 before you're even modestly combat effective, even then if you max out your bonuses it'd stack up something like this. (Note: I'm using Stealth's version of his blindness rules...) (+8 blindness, +6 ranks, +3 skill focus (If you're human), +3 wis (I assume 16) leaves you at a +21 listen check. You'd be able to notice your enemy on a natural 4 with listen, unless they're your favored enemy, which comes out to a nat. 2 to locate. Until then, you'd be perfectly useless in a fight, as you'd have to come up with a means to locate your foes reliably. I'd also say that you'd automatically fail any spot check instead of -20 to them, and you'd get -10 on any search checks, as you'd be searching it with your hands alone, and could not discern any visual details. Also, you'd be helpless against any ethereal or incorporeal creature (Since they don't make noise) as well as any creature that flies without wings (See above) and you wouldn't be able to make full use of your bow. (Though be prepared to thoroughly annoy your DM whenever he asks "Roll a Listen check", since you're generally guarenteed to succeed :D ) As for the tracking foes by scent bit... I know of a PRC in the CADV that grants Scent as a class feature, The Beastmaster, but it's late on in the PRC and the class itself is mediocre at best.
VonRichthofen 08-11-06, 05:06 AM	-20 to spot (he is blind after all) ??? I would appriciate some input. No spot checks at all. How do you spot anything if you are blind? Replace any Spot checks with tough Listen/Scent checks. If not possible, no way of knowing. If you want to play the Montolio II stuff, there's one big problem for the game to remember, though: You'll have to be out of the room whenever the DM describes something you can't hear/smell - for knowing about things as a player WILL influence your actions as a character. That is hard to pull through. We had something like it a few years ago, but it ended up with the guy in question basically acting a little more carefully and therefore getting huge advantages when it came to listening & fighting invisible stuff. For a solo adventure this might be viable, but with a group - no. Not recommendable from my point of view. As an other point, sniping without sight is basically impossible, no matter how keen your senses are. Even your role modell Monty uses an owl's call as "targeter". If you really want to get through with this, I'd try and ask my DM wether your character has at least developed Tremorsense or even Blind Sight to get a rough idea about what is going on. There are actually blind people trained to use sound emmanations/reflections to get a rough idea of their suroundings, in a crude & base attempt to copy a bat's echo-navigation system. Quite amazing, if you think of it. But yes, it can be done in the real world. Your character could have learned by some means the way a bat "sees" in absolute darkness and decided to copy the system so he gets at least a basic idea on what's what around him. You could use a greatly modified listen check to get those basic impressions like "There's a building right in front of me", or even "That tree is a big one...", but hardly anything more. Everything with a clear sound signature is easily heared by you, of course. No check needed to hear a normal person walking up to you... Also, remember that during a battle, your system will most certainly not be accurate enough to pinpoint creatures that take great pains to hide their smell/sound signature. Go for the Hooter-route in this case.
Stealth-Elite 08-11-06, 11:27 AM	since I cant use spot I wonder if my DM would let me change that skill to scent and treat it as its own check. or what about mixing that with tracking since thats how he would follow people anyway. and I thought Blind fighting only worked for melee?
lint trap 08-11-06, 11:53 AM	If you know someone who has the d20 Modern Core Rulebook, take a look at the Bat Moreau (pg. 248). Moreaus are human/animal hybrids, and "covert moreaus" look pretty much the same as humans do. Anyway, it's a LA +0 race that suffers from light blindness, but gets 120 ft. blindsight. A bit overpowered, maybe, but it sounds like it would work for your build.
Thubby 08-11-06, 02:46 PM	honestly, i'd iether scrap the character altogether. assuming you use RAW you could go melie, much higher chance of hitting, (with blind fight you get a 75% of hitting instead of 50%) i had a character who was blind, my dm was cool enough to make a special feat i could use blindsight (ya unoriginal, but what ya gonna do) prerequisits were: must be permanently blind(duh), blind fight, and like 5 ranks in listen. it granted blind sight out to 30 feet. a blind character actualy gets some very big advantages over normal ones, assuming you can climb the mountain of not being able to see, you are imune to gaze atks, low level illusions, and being blinded (it sounds retarted yes, but a character who could see, and is blinded, suffers worse than those already blind naturaly "-4 initiative and 1/2 movement")
Ralvuimego 08-11-06, 03:22 PM	i had a character who was blind, my dm was cool enough to make a special feat i could use blindsight (ya unoriginal, but what ya gonna do) prerequisits were: must be permanently blind(duh), blind fight, and like 5 ranks in listen. it granted blind sight out to 30 feet. Honestly, that pretty much sums up Hear the Unseen, except you don't have to be blind and it takes a listen check. (Am I giving up too much info on that feat? I'll edit it out if I am.)
Thubby 08-11-06, 04:19 PM	this was before that book, when 3.5 was just getting started. hear the unseen lets you ignore the 50% miss chance for being bind???? awesome!!!