Bloodstorm Blade/Master Thrower [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bloodstorm Blade/Master Thrower [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
posternutbag
09-29-07, 01:18 AM Ok, lets say I am playing a Bloodstorm Blade (ToB) and want to enter into Master Thrower (CW). Master Thrower requires Weapon Focus with a Thrown Weapon. My Character has Weapon Focus with Bastard Sword and the Throw Anything Feat (CW, ToB), hence he throws Bastard Swords. Since he can throw his Bastard Sword, does the Weapon Focus Bastard Sword fullfill the Weapon Focus Prerequisite for Master Thrower?
AAB
09-29-07, 01:28 AM I would personally say yes. I don't know about RAW, though.
Hsien
09-29-07, 07:58 AM I'm not familiar with Bloodstorm Blade, so not sure what that does for the character but here's what I think...

I'm going to lean towards no. Bastard Sword is not a thrown weapon.
Anyone can throw one, or any other melee weapon, there's just a -4 penalty to it without that feat, iirc. Plus since BS is not a ranged weapon in and of itself, therefore the Returning enhancement could not be placed on a bastard sword. ( w/o a houserule )

So for me the issue isn't whether the character has WF or not; it is if the Bastard sword in an actual Thrown weapon type. IMO it is not because it does not have it's own Range Increment, the Throw Anything feat doesn't really change that, it just provides a range increment to anything you throw.

Plus, the dip into MT I'm not sure would be worthwhile.
Ok so you'd get quickdraw for free but most everything else as far as feats/tricks that the MT provides only work when throwing...and how many bastard swords will your dm really let you carry around.
posternutbag
09-29-07, 12:10 PM The reason for the MT is the Improved Critical Trick and Full BAB. I would like to have a thrown weapon that does base 1d10, 19-20*3 that I can throw with one hand while using a shield or 2 hands for Str +1.5. The cool thing about the Boodstorm Blade is that your weapon returns at will as a swift action, allowing a Full Attack with a single thrown weapon.

I would argue that throw anything is analogous to feats that allow non core Monk weapons to be treated as Monk weapons. The Whirling Steel feat allows a longsword to be treated as a Monk weapon, hence you can flurry with it. I would think that throw anthing, since it adds a range increment to a weapon, makes any weapon a thrown weapon for that character.

I do want to get this one right. My group will defer to me with regards to rule technicalities, and I don't want to take advantage of their trust.
Sexy_ferret
09-29-07, 01:25 PM I two would say no. Since it requires a weapon focus of (any thrown weapon) you would need to have one that alread has a range increment attached to it to be a thrown weapon.
Hsien
09-29-07, 02:07 PM The reason for the MT is the Improved Critical Trick and Full BAB. I would like to have a thrown weapon that does base 1d10, 19-20*3 that I can throw with one hand while using a shield or 2 hands for Str +1.5. The cool thing about the Boodstorm Blade is that your weapon returns at will as a swift action, allowing a Full Attack with a single thrown weapon.

I would argue that throw anything is analogous to feats that allow non core Monk weapons to be treated as Monk weapons. The Whirling Steel feat allows a longsword to be treated as a Monk weapon, hence you can flurry with it. I would think that throw anthing, since it adds a range increment to a weapon, makes any weapon a thrown weapon for that character.

I do want to get this one right. My group will defer to me with regards to rule technicalities, and I don't want to take advantage of their trust.

Some concerns to check into...
1: The Imp Crit from MT only applies when throwing; better to take the Imp Crit feat so it applies to melee as well.

2: You only get 1 swift action per round and only on your turn, so as long as you only had one or two attacks that could work but not once you got 3 or more attacks.

3: Monk feat Comparison: feats are not really analagous, imo.
Whirl Steel feat: One Class affected adding one specifc weapon to be treated as a monk weapon.
Note that for Monk to to get other weapons as monk weapons, ex: spear, thats an entirely diff feat to buy and there are only a few weapons that are currently availble for that option. (which I disagree with but thats what they have)

Throw Anything feat: any class ( pretty much) allowing any thing/melee weapon to be thrown without -4 and provides a 10' range increment.

To me those are two very different feats, as the scope is different.
Monk is very limited whereas Throw Anything is very wide in things it affects.

Is there a Melee w/ Anything feat? Now that would be analogous. arrows, javelins, halflings...turkeys, all could be used w/o penalty in melee :plotting: :turkey:

So I still don't think it works.
Just because you can throw a Bastard Sword ( with or w/o penalty) doesn't make it categorized as a Thrown Weapon.
Xeonas
09-29-07, 02:24 PM Just as a side note, the part about a Bloodstorm Blade's returning weapon (at 4 level anyway) is said to "immediately return to you, which you catch as a free action. This allows you to make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks, or with a mix of melee or throw attacks."
posternutbag
09-29-07, 05:39 PM Xeonas is correct. I was wrong with regard to it being a swift action. I think everyone who has posted is correct. I don't think Weapon Focus Bastardsword would meat the prereq. I guess I was wanting something to be instead of looking and reading objectively.
windscar18
09-29-07, 06:24 PM To be fair, however, I think that it's more of a DM's personal ruling then anything else. The prerequisite specifically says "Any Thrown Weapon", which is fairly ambigious.

Personally, I'd allow it just because it doesn't screw you out of one of Bloodstorm Blade's important aspects. Though, admittedly, throwing a falchion with ridiculous critical modifiers does get annoying after a while >_>.
fatal error
09-29-07, 08:29 PM Can you only use the MT abilities with your focused weapon? Otherwise, you could take Weapon Focus (Javelin), then use the abilities with a Throw Anything'd Bastard Sword. Of course, this is a rather lame way to get things done, but then, it seems like you really should be able to combine the Bloodstorm Blade and Master Thrower.
posternutbag
09-30-07, 07:52 PM You can put together a Bloodstorm Blade/Master thrower build using say Weapon Focus Throwing Axe to qualify for MT, but still throw Bastard Swords as your primary tactic with the Bloodstorm class abilities, I was just looking to save a feat.

I had thought about throwing Falchions, but I like the versatility of a Bastard Sword. 1 Thrown attack at each opponent on the field with 1d10 +1.5Str with a 19-20x3 crit will wittle an opponent's army down rather fast. Or I can have just + Str and get the benefit of a shield. I don't think 2d4 + 1.5 Str with a 18-20 x3 crit is really superior. I guess throwing Scythes with *5 crit is a little absurd, huh?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
posternutbag 09-29-07, 01:18 AM	Ok, lets say I am playing a Bloodstorm Blade (ToB) and want to enter into Master Thrower (CW). Master Thrower requires Weapon Focus with a Thrown Weapon. My Character has Weapon Focus with Bastard Sword and the Throw Anything Feat (CW, ToB), hence he throws Bastard Swords. Since he can throw his Bastard Sword, does the Weapon Focus Bastard Sword fullfill the Weapon Focus Prerequisite for Master Thrower?
AAB 09-29-07, 01:28 AM	I would personally say yes. I don't know about RAW, though.
Hsien 09-29-07, 07:58 AM	I'm not familiar with Bloodstorm Blade, so not sure what that does for the character but here's what I think... I'm going to lean towards no. Bastard Sword is not a thrown weapon. Anyone can throw one, or any other melee weapon, there's just a -4 penalty to it without that feat, iirc. Plus since BS is not a ranged weapon in and of itself, therefore the Returning enhancement could not be placed on a bastard sword. ( w/o a houserule ) So for me the issue isn't whether the character has WF or not; it is if the Bastard sword in an actual Thrown weapon type. IMO it is not because it does not have it's own Range Increment, the Throw Anything feat doesn't really change that, it just provides a range increment to anything you throw. Plus, the dip into MT I'm not sure would be worthwhile. Ok so you'd get quickdraw for free but most everything else as far as feats/tricks that the MT provides only work when throwing...and how many bastard swords will your dm really let you carry around.
posternutbag 09-29-07, 12:10 PM	The reason for the MT is the Improved Critical Trick and Full BAB. I would like to have a thrown weapon that does base 1d10, 19-20*3 that I can throw with one hand while using a shield or 2 hands for Str +1.5. The cool thing about the Boodstorm Blade is that your weapon returns at will as a swift action, allowing a Full Attack with a single thrown weapon. I would argue that throw anything is analogous to feats that allow non core Monk weapons to be treated as Monk weapons. The Whirling Steel feat allows a longsword to be treated as a Monk weapon, hence you can flurry with it. I would think that throw anthing, since it adds a range increment to a weapon, makes any weapon a thrown weapon for that character. I do want to get this one right. My group will defer to me with regards to rule technicalities, and I don't want to take advantage of their trust.
Sexy_ferret 09-29-07, 01:25 PM	I two would say no. Since it requires a weapon focus of (any thrown weapon) you would need to have one that alread has a range increment attached to it to be a thrown weapon.
Hsien 09-29-07, 02:07 PM	The reason for the MT is the Improved Critical Trick and Full BAB. I would like to have a thrown weapon that does base 1d10, 19-20*3 that I can throw with one hand while using a shield or 2 hands for Str +1.5. The cool thing about the Boodstorm Blade is that your weapon returns at will as a swift action, allowing a Full Attack with a single thrown weapon. I would argue that throw anything is analogous to feats that allow non core Monk weapons to be treated as Monk weapons. The Whirling Steel feat allows a longsword to be treated as a Monk weapon, hence you can flurry with it. I would think that throw anthing, since it adds a range increment to a weapon, makes any weapon a thrown weapon for that character. I do want to get this one right. My group will defer to me with regards to rule technicalities, and I don't want to take advantage of their trust. Some concerns to check into... 1: The Imp Crit from MT only applies when throwing; better to take the Imp Crit feat so it applies to melee as well. 2: You only get 1 swift action per round and only on your turn, so as long as you only had one or two attacks that could work but not once you got 3 or more attacks. 3: Monk feat Comparison: feats are not really analagous, imo. Whirl Steel feat: One Class affected adding one specifc weapon to be treated as a monk weapon. Note that for Monk to to get other weapons as monk weapons, ex: spear, thats an entirely diff feat to buy and there are only a few weapons that are currently availble for that option. (which I disagree with but thats what they have) Throw Anything feat: any class ( pretty much) allowing any thing/melee weapon to be thrown without -4 and provides a 10' range increment. To me those are two very different feats, as the scope is different. Monk is very limited whereas Throw Anything is very wide in things it affects. Is there a Melee w/ Anything feat? Now that would be analogous. arrows, javelins, halflings...turkeys, all could be used w/o penalty in melee :plotting: :turkey: So I still don't think it works. Just because you can throw a Bastard Sword ( with or w/o penalty) doesn't make it categorized as a Thrown Weapon.
Xeonas 09-29-07, 02:24 PM	Just as a side note, the part about a Bloodstorm Blade's returning weapon (at 4 level anyway) is said to "immediately return to you, which you catch as a free action. This allows you to make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks, or with a mix of melee or throw attacks."
posternutbag 09-29-07, 05:39 PM	Xeonas is correct. I was wrong with regard to it being a swift action. I think everyone who has posted is correct. I don't think Weapon Focus Bastardsword would meat the prereq. I guess I was wanting something to be instead of looking and reading objectively.
windscar18 09-29-07, 06:24 PM	To be fair, however, I think that it's more of a DM's personal ruling then anything else. The prerequisite specifically says "Any Thrown Weapon", which is fairly ambigious. Personally, I'd allow it just because it doesn't screw you out of one of Bloodstorm Blade's important aspects. Though, admittedly, throwing a falchion with ridiculous critical modifiers does get annoying after a while >_>.
fatal error 09-29-07, 08:29 PM	Can you only use the MT abilities with your focused weapon? Otherwise, you could take Weapon Focus (Javelin), then use the abilities with a Throw Anything'd Bastard Sword. Of course, this is a rather lame way to get things done, but then, it seems like you really should be able to combine the Bloodstorm Blade and Master Thrower.
posternutbag 09-30-07, 07:52 PM	You can put together a Bloodstorm Blade/Master thrower build using say Weapon Focus Throwing Axe to qualify for MT, but still throw Bastard Swords as your primary tactic with the Bloodstorm class abilities, I was just looking to save a feat. I had thought about throwing Falchions, but I like the versatility of a Bastard Sword. 1 Thrown attack at each opponent on the field with 1d10 +1.5Str with a 19-20x3 crit will wittle an opponent's army down rather fast. Or I can have just + Str and get the benefit of a shield. I don't think 2d4 + 1.5 Str with a 18-20 x3 crit is really superior. I guess throwing Scythes with *5 crit is a little absurd, huh?