Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sinfire Titan 02-13-08, 07:48 PM	Hey all. Recently, I was looking through the ToM for character ideas, and I realized that very few fixes have been aimed at the Truenamer. I am aware of several on this board, but as far as I am aware, no Board-Fix has ever been made official. So, I thought I would try to change this. With the help of the forums here, I hope to have the entire Truenamer section revamped and balanced out, much like the Bo9S and MoI were. I seek to make this fix WotC approved eventually, as they have almost nothing to lose from doing so. With a bit of help from the other posters, I would be sending the crew over at R&D an email detailing this fix and requesting it be made OGL if at all possible, or at least being approved of for RPGA use. I realize this is a huge statement, but I do feel that it can be made to happen. It just takes effort from a number of people, and it needs just a little push to get it to work. I realize the odds of this happening are slim, but with 4E right around the corner, I feel it has a better chance of getting approved than one might think. So, I ask you now, are there any supporters for this idea? And if anyone knows the account name of one of the WotC staff, I would like to know it myself so I can contact someone when the project is finished.
Sinfire Titan 02-13-08, 07:49 PM	The Problem with the Truenamer I will be posting this analysis as I am rereading the ToM. For the ease of reference, the Truenamer class shall be abbreviated as TrN, and any reference to the mechanics of Truenaming will be labeled as TNing. Basics On page 195 it shows the formula for the TNing process. Now, at first glance this formula seems very difficult. But after doing the calculations, it comes out to only need an 11 to pass the base DC for an encounter of your ECL. Well, this is still a problem. With an almost perfectly split 50/50 odds of passing the first check of an encounter, it means that the TrN is only doing their job once every other action per Utterance. This is the flaw with the system, as it can easily render the character useless with a series of bad rolls. One of the things that alleviates this problem is the Action Points from the SRD or Eberron setting. This gives a limited use way of getting out of the hole you dig for yourself. But it doesn't stop the balancing factor: The Law of Resistance (LoR). Every time you make a successful check, the DC for the next use of that Utterance rises by 2. Now, this can quickly shut down the entire class as early as 1st level. As everyone who plays this game is aware, I will say this outright. If you can't protect yourself with your classes key feature, then you are going to die in combat no matter what. This has been proven time and time again with the Vanican system and even the Fighter is subject to this harsh reality. One bad combat means then end of a character. This is even more true for the TrN, as a I stated earlier. It comes down to the actual rolls, and as many of us are aware, they like being random. At 1st level, a TrN has only a single utterance to use each day. Now, this wouldn't be a problem, if it weren't the LoR. But because of the LoR, a 1st level TrN often ends up sitting on the side lines after two or three tries. Worse, because of their weapons and armor profs, they are very weak combatants until the mid levels, when Wands become available. Moving on: Personal Truenames. This concept is interesting, but it plays little to no role in standard combat. Save DCs increase by 2, and CL improves by 2 for SR purposes. Big freaking deal. Why bother with it at all when you can use Ability Focus and raise the DC to ignore SR? This needs to change to be more effective. It does give a nice boost for saying your own name, but it is still useless otherwise. Now then, to the actual class features. Looking at the chart, they seem no different from Warlocks. But in actual play, they are considerably weaker than the same class unless their abilities go off, due to the limit on their use per utterance per day. Same saves, same HD, higher skill points (with a narrow skill selection), and same Armor and weapons. Not much to work with on that. But now let us look at the tricks they get. Know Personal Truename: I discuss the personal names earlier. This is a null class feature, just a freaking filler slot. Worthless waste of space. Utterances: The key focus of the class, this is where all of their power comes from. But look at it. An SLA based on a skill check. Innovative, unusual, and theoretically at will. Just like the Warlock. Here is where they differ. The TrN's utterances are Int-based for the skill check, rather than Dex-based, and the Saving Throw is determined by Cha instead of Int. Why? Why the MAD on a class that is inferior to the Warlock in terms of how it works? Because it is new and unusual? Secondly, the TrN begins play with a SINGLE freaking utterance. Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but that isn't nearly enough to deal with the 4 encounter per day recommendation in the DMG. Most combats last about 3-4 rounds. At 1st level, even less, as enemies have low AC and low HP. This means that one utterance may be all they get off, or they blow through them all like a +50 Flaming Chainsaw cuts through plain butter that has been sitting out in the sun in the middle of Death Valley. A Wizard starts play with 3 1st level spells, and a handfull of cantrips. Yet they are far better off in terms of power, as we all know. Swordsages, Warblades, and Crusaders get a lot more Maneuvers and even a stance at 1st level, and can use them as often as needed. Warlocks get the EB and a single Invocation to work with. TrNs get jack s***. Something needs to change here. At 4th level, they get the second kind of Lexicon, and a single trick out of it. But only two or three of those tricks are even worth something, and even then, the abilities are limited. The best utterances are Analyze Item, Rebuild Item, Seize Item, Suppress Item, and Suppress Weapon. None of these are available until the mid-levels. So, again, nerfed to hell and back. The Lexicon of the Perfected Map is where things turn around. Looking into the Errata: • To speak an area’s truename (using the Lexicon of the Perfected Map), you must succeed on a Truespeak check with a DC equal to 25 + 5 per level of the utterance. If the area is a magical location, increase the DC by an additional 5. Much easier, much nicer, and very smooth. 8th level is when you get access to it, but this doesn't matter until the late game. The best abilities in it are in the late game, and they are really worth it. But still, until then TrNs suck hard. That DC comes out to a 30 at level 8, which needs a base of 11 ranks+4 Int+3 from Skill Focus to even pull off on a reliable basis. Knowledge Focus: Ok, you know something? This is the one thing they did right with this class. This is a decent trick to help alleviate some of your dependency on Skill Points and a high Int score. But I still feel it needs more. Truename Research: Huh? The point of this feat is worthless (as I have stated with Personal Truenames). Dead level. Bonus Recitation Feat: One of these feats are actually worth something. I don't know which, but one of them is. See the Named: Jeez. What a nigh unto useless ability. The duration is too short. Needs to be better. Sending: Wait, shouldn't this be an utterance? Besides, we can get Message as an SLA 1/day with a feat, and this is really weak for a 13th level ability. Needs to change. Speak Unto the Masses: By the time you get this ability, it isn't worth it. Too late in the game to be relevant, and will be changing when I post the variant TrN later on. Say My Name and I Am There: What? You call this a capstone ability? Please, it is way too useless for a TrN. Not worth it. So much for class features. This class is almost as bad as the CW Samurai.
Sinfire Titan 02-15-08, 02:00 PM	Feats I'll skip the PrCs, I wasn't going to ask for them to be OGL too. Though if enough attention is drawn to this idea, and enough people want them, I will try and get them too. Post to be edited later.
JaronK 02-15-08, 03:14 PM	It should be mentioned that a level or so of Exemplar is virtually necessary later in the game. +4 to Truename checks and you can always take 10? Yes please. Also, using MIC you can make a ring of +5 Insight bonus to Truenaming and +5 Competance Bonus to Truenaming much cheaper than a normal +10 ring. JaronK
Sinfire Titan 02-15-08, 03:34 PM	It should be mentioned that a level or so of Exemplar is virtually necessary later in the game. +4 to Truename checks and you can always take 10? Yes please. Also, using MIC you can make a ring of +5 Insight bonus to Truenaming and +5 Competance Bonus to Truenaming much cheaper than a normal +10 ring. JaronK Well, this isn't about optimizing, it is about Fixing the class so it doesn't have to need those.
JaronK 02-15-08, 03:57 PM	Well, this isn't about optimizing, it is about Fixing the class so it doesn't have to need those. Still, claiming the class doesn't work because you can't hit the DCs is disingenuous if you actually can with a one level dip into one PrC. I mean, hey, the class does have horrible problems, but inability to hit the necessary DCs past level 10 or so just isn't one of them. JaronK
Sinfire Titan 02-15-08, 04:06 PM	Still, claiming the class doesn't work because you can't hit the DCs is disingenuous if you actually can with a one level dip into one PrC. I mean, hey, the class does have horrible problems, but inability to hit the necessary DCs past level 10 or so just isn't one of them. JaronK And even then, you are delaying the advancement of a "spellcasting" class to make it play-able in the late-game. Early to mid-game is where it needs the revamp, and if I have to change the upper levels to do so, then so be it.
navar100 02-15-08, 05:06 PM	Get rid of the x2 multiplier. That should do it. DC = 15 + HD 1HD creature is DC 16 Level 1 Truenamer Speak(Truename) +3 IN(16) + 4 ranks + 3 Skill Focus = +10. You need to roll 6 or higher. Reasonable. 10 HD creature is DC 25 Level 10 Truenamer Speak(Truename) +4 IN(18) + 13 ranks + 3 Skill Focus = +20. You need to roll 5 or higher. Reasonable. Autosuccess 6HD creatures and lower. You're 10th level. That's fine. No specific magic items needed. Can afford to repeat Utterances a few times with the additional +2 DCs.
JaronK 02-15-08, 05:12 PM	The thing is, making the Truename DCs really isn't that hard with some work. The larger issue is that with any skill based magic system, skills are easy to pump up, so you kind of have to assume that clever players will manage to always make the DCs and balance things accordingly... which makes the actual use of the skill rather worthless. The mechanic itself is just broken. Not powerful. Broken. JaronK
Kapalen 02-17-08, 04:22 PM	It should be mentioned that a level or so of Exemplar is virtually necessary later in the game. +4 to Truename checks and you can always take 10? Yes please. Also, using MIC you can make a ring of +5 Insight bonus to Truenaming and +5 Competance Bonus to Truenaming much cheaper than a normal +10 ring. JaronK Those are good options for someone playing a truenamer. But this thread is more about how to fix the system, not how to work around it. Still, claiming the class doesn't work because you can't hit the DCs is disingenuous if you actually can with a one level dip into one PrC. I mean, hey, the class does have horrible problems, but inability to hit the necessary DCs past level 10 or so just isn't one of them. JaronK Can't remember the name of the fallacy but it syas, "Just because Y fixes x, or x can be houseruled, doesn't mean X isn't broken." Which is the case here. If the fighter had to take a level in a PrC to be able to swing a sword, does that make the fighter not broken (broken here means underpowered not over)?
JaronK 02-18-08, 05:00 AM	Can't remember the name of the fallacy but it syas, "Just because Y fixes x, or x can be houseruled, doesn't mean X isn't broken." Which is the case here. If the fighter had to take a level in a PrC to be able to swing a sword, does that make the fighter not broken (broken here means underpowered not over)? I don't think you're understanding my point here. I actually have two: 1) If a class is hard to use by itself, but works quite well in conjuction with other classes or abilities, that class isn't well designed but is still workable (i.e. not broken). After all, Wizards totally don't work if you don't also raise their Int score, but that doesn't mean Wizards are underpowered. Likewise, it would be nice if Swashbucklers had enough class features to be more than a three level class, but they're still useful at least as that. In the case of Truenamers, they just need rings and items that improve their Truename skill (or dips into PrCs that do it), much like a Wizard needs items that improve their caster level or save DCs. Also, your fallacy is wrong. If Y fixes X, then X is no longer broken, because Y fixed it! As an example, one of the broken bits about Spellthieves was that you really couldn't multiclass or PrC out of them at all, or else you'd lose all usefulness from the class entirely. This was fixed with the introduction of the Master Spellthief feat, which made such multiclassing possible. I'll grant you the bit about houserules, certainly. 2) The larger issue with the Truenamer is the base concept. The class is made under the assumption that there will be some difficulty in making the skill checks, but that the skill checks will still be reasonable. This is not the case. If you don't optimize the Truenamer, then you can't make the skill checks enough to matter at all. If you do optimize their Truename checks, then you can easily hit their DCs even if you roll a 1 (or, in the case of the Exemplar dip, without rolling at all). If you balance things for the first case, then the class will be overpowered when optimized (which it shouldn't be). If you balance things for the second case, then the whole class concept becomes silly... they're making the checks every time anyway, so why make the roll? Why not just call them Warlocks and be done with it? In the end, the concept of a skill based magic system just doesn't work, because it's so easy to pump skill modifiers into the stratosphere. I doubt it would be hard for a level 20 Truenamer to have a base +100 to Truename checks... at which point, there's no point in having the skill at all, except to waste a little money on items. JaronK