Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Expendable 07-31-07, 12:57 AM	This is my first Class So hopefully I didn't do to bad. A note: I apologize in advane for grammer errors and random capitalazation of a letter its a habit..... **note edited the things i recived complaints about i hope.... "Behind every great fortune there is a crime." ---Honoré de Balzac Edit #3 added lone wolfs suggestion changed top of the world to an enetirley new abilityl Added one new Ability "Look what I learned" Edited Glibness Changed faking it to give set pluses instead of based on points = to skill rank Bogus Hero A lone solider strolls into town his Sword caked in blood over his shoulder, and the villains head in hand . The crowed cheers, Drinks are shared, and the next day he’s gone with your money. The Bogus Hero is called by many names; An opportunist, A Swindler, A cheat, A fake, but above all else he’s A liar! Bluff is a Bogus heroes best friend and relies sturdily on it. His fake life is his bread and butter and he will do anything to protect it even if it means killing his own comrades. Falsely proficient with all weapons and Armour. They tend to not follow religion but simply fame. Those who are religious usually follow the god of travel but rarely ask for assistance in prayer or sacrifice. Bogus Heroes Role: A bogus hero is a midrange fighter or an excellent scout unfortunately he’s prone to hiding at the first site of danger and Stepping in at the sure sign of success. And know to lie about Finding treasures. The Bogus heroes skills make it self sufficient. And helpful during non combat situations or collecting money. The favor ability also helps in tight situations. If the bogus hero is ever found to be a sham by another means or flat out telling someone he instantly losse all bonuses and Abilites associated with being a Bogus hero. Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Bogus hero is proficient with all simple & martial weapons along with light Armor. Abilities: The bogus hero is a compulsive liar and therefore relies heavily on charisma. As He sometimes is challenged on his “feats” Strength and Dexterity are also good cards to tap. Constitution is not a necessity as the bogus hero rarely does any real fighting. Intelligence and wisdom are lust lacked skills that a bogus hero would rarely tap. Races: Humans and half-elves make good bogus heroes as they are well off at traveling and rarely call one place their true home. Starting Gold: 4d6 Class Skills: The false hero’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (cha) See Player's Handbook, Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions. Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Hit Dice: d8 Alignment: Chaotic neutral or chaotic good are the Bogus heroes cup of tea but they are not bound to any set alignment but lawful good as they are known for swindling. Level BAB W save Ref save Fort save 1 +0 +0 +0 +0 2 +1 +0 +0 +0 3 +2 +1 +1 +1 4 +3 +1 +1 +1 5 +3 +1 +1 +1 6 +4 +2 +2 +2 7 +5 +2 +2 +2 8 +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 9 +6/+1 +3 +3 +3 10 +7/+2 +3 +3 +3 11 +8/+3 +3 +3 +3 12 +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 13 +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 14 +10/+5 +4 +4 +4 15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Level Abilities 1.Faking it, Payday, Bogus hero! 2.Descendent of Glory, Look what I learned +1 3.Attrition, Favor 4.Sneak attack +1d6, Look what I learned +1 5.Farce of the Barbarian 6.Renown? ,Favor, Look what I learned +1 7.Improved faking it 8.Swing Swing I’m Dead, Look what I learned +1 9.Sneak attack +2d6 , Favor 10.Farce of the Fighter, Look what I learned +1 11.Infinite glibness, Improved payday 12.Ok I lied! , Favor, Look what I learned +1 13.------ 14.Sneak Attack +3d6, Look what I learned +1 15.Favor, Farce of the Mage 16.Look what I learned +1 17.True colors 18.Favor, Look what I learned +1 19.Massive payday, sneak attack +4d6 20.Top of the world, Farce of the Paladin, Look what I learned +1 Faking it:The Bogus hero is know for his ability To do things he doesn’t know how to do and still come out on top. At first level the Bogus Hero learns Faking it. Allowing him to use his bluff ranks to get a conditional modifier on skills Ranks Modifier 1-5 +1 6-9 +3 10-16 +5 17-21 +7 21-23 +9 At level 7 the Bogus hero gains Improved faking it Allowing him to use his bluff Ranks to get a larger conditional modifier and reduced penalties due to non proficiency. The bogus Hero is now also able to Add his Cha Bonus to all saves instead of said modifier(fortitude= constitution/ect.) ***Faking it does not imporve bluff skill** Ranks Modifier 1-5 +3 6-9 +5 10-16 +7 17-21 +9 21-23 +11 Payday: At first level The bogus hero acquires payday Allowing her to add a +2 bluff checks through monetary means. 1d6 gp for how difficult the lie. At level 11 The bogus hero gets a +5 on bluff checks by paying an outside source to be a fake witness. 2d6gp per person At level 19 the Bogus hero gains a +7 on bluff checks by paying a corrupt guard or official to vouch for him. 3d6 gp per official Bogus Hero! From 1st level on the bogus hero's Traning has all come from no combat excerscises or traning so in any combat sitiuation he takes -2 penaltyies on all Combat manuvers(bullrush, runover, Ride,ect.) (except feint attacks), His criticals are bound to natrual 20s x2 no matter the Weapon and or feats he selects. and takes a miscalinous penalty on his Ac. according to level [code] Lvl 1-5: -3 penalty to Ac Lvl 6-10: -2 penalty to ac Lvl 11-19 -1 penalty to Ac Look what I learned At the second level and every 2 levels there after A Bogus hero learns A new skill, This new skill must be taken as soon as the bogus Hero levels up or be lost forever. Descendent of glory: at second level the bogus hero takes on False identity of a Prophesized hero and Always uses it to its full advantage. Attrition: At the third level the Bogus hero develops attrition an ability giveing a -1 to ac against all adjacent enemy units of the bogus hero. Due to distracting the unit in battle to weaken his abilities wether through mocking combat fignthing or From supposed stories of the bogus hero striking fear in his opponets. Favor: At the 3rd level and every 3 levels after the Bogus Hero Gains a favor. From one of his so called debts and he’s come to collect. Favors come in three distinct flavors and stack: #1. Collect 200 gp from loved ones or the town of someone you saved #2. +1 to an ability score through training from a Master who’s Dojo/house/school/etc. The bogus Heo "Saved" #3. A rare item (Dm’s choice and discretion) From a smuggler who owes you big for beating up some Bandits who almost ruined his business, or threating the smuggler you will turn him into the cops. Sneak attack At 4th level and ever 5 levels after that the Bogus hero gains a Sneak attack 1d6 at 4 2d6 at 9 ect. **Not going to explain this cause everyone understands sneak attack**** Farce of the -------: At 5th level and every 5 levels after the Bogus hero finds someway to make a class look bad. However it may be causing an uproar Barbarian: Falsely outmatches a barbarian in a game of strength bogus hero gets a +1 ac competence bonus against barbarians. Barbarians will automatically attack Bogus hero to defend his honor Fighter: Falsely Beat a Fighter in a battle of swordsmanship. Fighters take a -1 penalty on all attacks against the bogus hero Wizard: Beat a wizard at a game of wizards chess. Wizard will take a -1 on all attacks on Bogus hero on sheer confusion on how the bogus hero won. Paladin: Convinced a paladin to break his code of honor. Paladin will attempt to convince you of redemption using violence as a last resort (unless bogus hero is evil.) Renown: You get a +3 bonus on trying to convince people of how popular you think you are. Works well with Haggling, Finding allies, or Enetering royal balls. Swing Swing I’m Dead: At level 8 the Bogus hero must fight with one opponent for one rounds and be hit after that one round the Bogus hero may drop prone and for all intensive purposes be considered dead to the enemy (can be checked with a spot check vs. bogus heroes bluff check) after one round of faking dead. The bogus hero may hit all adjacent units flat footed as if using whirlwind feat and premptivly striking. If the bluff fails than this ability becomes null and void temporarily.. Repetitive use of the ability gives a -2 to the bluff check every time.(per battle) Infinite Glibness At 11th level the Bogus hero may spend one turn in order to gain a +30 on bluff as if using glibness this lasts for 6 seconds per two levels. (may only be casts once per day.) Okay I lied, : At lvl 12 If the Bogus hero identity is ever compromised he will make up a bigger to cover himself up such as being a secret spy of a nation or a man searching for someone but had to conceal their identity to protect the ones they love and must spend their next level to Become the new class he says he is. True Colors: at level 17 the Bogus hero Is able to "pretend" to change his alignment at will for sake of detect good/evil or Paladins smite. by spending one day concentrating. this does not acctual change alignment but simply makes the charecter appear ot all who seek as the chosen alignment. Top of the world: At 20th level The Bogus Hero Is on top of the world. And Acts accordingly He is now immune to fear and all mind altering effects, He no longer recives the bogus hero penaltyies and Can add the Faking it conditional modifier to any skill traind or not. ***Can not be used to boost bluff*** So umm there it is tell me what ya think..... Ho hum Sincerly Expendable!
The_Warhammer 07-31-07, 05:27 PM	Sound interesting.
Corvus_Obscurus 07-31-07, 05:31 PM	The kind of base attack bonus progression you use does not exist... Look it up in the SRD and perhaps word the class features better
LoneFlame 07-31-07, 05:33 PM	Interesting, but I foresee much complaining about the Saves, Base Attack, and Skill points. Also, d8s for Sneak Attack is considered blasphemy by some. Realistically, in D&D, this guy would be dead real quick if the DM goes for player on player violence. EDIT: And so the complaints begin even faster than I can warn about.
CobaltDeathWolf 07-31-07, 06:34 PM	HA! sounds like the guy from "BlueStreak"!:D only he actually turned out to be a realhero sounds fun:)
Expendable 07-31-07, 09:42 PM	yeah i noticed the progression was crazy... but i did draw it up at like way to late so i need to make changes. I guess the best choices would be d6s for sneak attack, or get rid of it all together. And Second The Skill points 6, 4, or 2 per level? Hehe yeah it is a kinda push the envelope with dm so im gonna fix the said items and just see if people like it alittle better.
LoneFlame 08-01-07, 12:52 AM	Good move on the saves. Wizards did the same trick with the Chameleon Prestige Class. Low base saves, but a class feature or two to supplement it. Given the skill points, hit dice, proficiencies, saves, and what not, I think this class might be all right. Though, that +30 to bluff for 1 minute/class lv is a bit much. You might want to tone down that bonus and make it scalable(ie. +1/class lv to Bluff for one minute/lv)
Gideon_Gideonson 08-01-07, 03:31 AM	Faking it:The Bogus hero is know for his ability To do things he doesn’t know how to do and still come out on top. At first level the Bogus Hero Faking it Allowing the Bogus hero to Add her bluff divided by 3 rounded down (divided by 6 if untrained), to her Saves, And skill checks. And all negatives due to non proficiency by 1/4th At level 7 the Bogus hero gains Improved faking it Allowing it to Add her bluff divided by 2 (rounded down)(divided by 4 if untrained) to her saves, Skill checks, And all penalties due to non proficiency are halved (rounded down) ***Faking it does not imporve bluff skill** Ahem. Powerful much? At level 20, with 23 ranks, a +10 Charisma, and Skill Focus, my BASE save is +26, and all my skills except bluff get a +20 bonus. This seems WAY to good.
Expendable 08-01-07, 02:15 PM	Hahahah yeah unfortunatly i forgot about feats origonaly the class was divided by 6 at first levle and divided by 4 at 7th level of course when you consider they are simply saves and the Bogus hero itself is a walking target in combat. And would instantly get beat down in combat. Due to its semi Bab Build, Along with a full laugh if someone played this charecter to level 20. In many ways i guess you could assume that the Bogus hero is a Attention grubbing sado-maschist(Sp?) in its right as most of its skills tend to bring it to get hit to use or draw attention to itself but i am open for suggestions on how to fix it but as a third party member in my own debate i will try to find a fix for that. Any helpful opinons and plausible Fixes are much appreciated as always. -Sincerly Expendable
Gideon_Gideonson 08-01-07, 03:03 PM	Well, with the above as is, I can take a single dip in this class as a Sorceror and never have to worry about saves again. The fact that you don't fail ANYTHING except on a natural 1 is overpowered, as is a +20 to all skills. Even a +10 is to good. That ability needs a major revision, in my mind.
Expendable 08-01-07, 03:22 PM	Well, with the above as is, I can take a single dip in this class as a Sorceror and never have to worry about saves again. The fact that you don't fail ANYTHING except on a natural 1 is overpowered, as is a +20 to all skills. Even a +10 is to good. That ability needs a major revision, in my mind. Yeah i see what you mean but after my revisions at level 20 assuming the charecter has done everytihng you pointed out his saves are +19 and skills will only get a boost of +13 or a boost of +9 untrained still alot but comparable to a rouge its dismissive along with 2 int points per level it prettym uch swamps itself out of skill points after maxing bluff and splitting 24 points between the other 5. even with a high int it wont make much of a dent. I understand you and im thinking of a way ot change it while keeping its integrity maybe if i find a save build lower that might work?
Gideon_Gideonson 08-01-07, 03:26 PM	Yeah i see what you mean but after my revisions at level 20 assuming the charecter has done everytihng you pointed out his saves are +19 and skills will only get a boost of +13 or a boost of +9 untrained still alot but comparable to a rouge Three saves at +19...as opposed to most classes that have 1 or two good saves at +12, and bad ones at +6. And the rogue gets NO skills boosts at all. With a rogue, I have 23 ranks in a skill at level 20. With THIS class I get 23 ranks in a class skill, and another +10 or higher from that ability. I'd say remove it from the skills, and make Fakin' it like Divine Grace (Cha to saves). Much smoother all around. Then maybe Improved Fakin' it allows you to use your Charisma bonus to AC instead of you Dex bonus.
SilentOne 08-01-07, 03:43 PM	Class features as story points? What if someone never fights a barbarian, wizard, paladin, or fighter? How can they get the "farce" abilities? Payday.... what? Again, this is something the DM should allow or not with the skill, not be an intrinsic class feature. Why can only the bogus hero pay corrupt officials? Attrition, while a nice ability, doesn't make sense to me, given no description. Please elaborate. Favor.... see Farce. What if the character never does any of this? Tempest (I think) had a nice post on the Thunder Guide about story points as class features... maybe someone could find it and repost it. For infinite glibness, change it to rounds? 6 seconds, not 10. Also, since you seem to be basing Faking It on skill bonus instead of skill ranks (a big mistake to balance, I think, look at the 3.5 bard compared to the 3.0 one with bardic music - rank and level requirements for their songs. I suggest something similar, basing the bonus off the number of ranks divided by some number instead of their bonus divided.) Swing Swing I'm Dead - all creatures? Not just the ones that think you're dead? What if they see through your bluff, they're still flat-footed? And what about springing up from prone suddenly gives the bogus hero the ability to Whirlwind Attack when they couldn't before? Reknown... I dunno. No mechanics for figuring out if you're popular or not, so I'm not sure where the +3 bonus would fit in. True Colors should probably be something like a misdirection effect, letting them act as though a different alignment. Actually changing the alignment would be much trickier and involve changing the thought processes of the character, which, frankly, would be hard to do. Misdirection just lies to the detector though, which fits the class fine. Top of the World.... alright, you lost me. What does this even do? Top of the world: At 20th level the Bogus Hero is on top of the world and can use 2 of his bluff Skill when he’s faking any skills and 4 his bluff when using an untrained skill. He is also no longer takes penalties for using weapons he does not have proficiencies. ***Can not be used to boost bluff*** 2 of his bluff skill? 4 his bluff? What?
Expendable 08-01-07, 06:19 PM	ahem ladedadeda just when things were looking up.. ill settle my points with gideon first... Yes i may just have to do that as the system is a littleo ut of wack and i guess must be rearranged you offer good solutions i may just have to go with. as for Silent one i guess that in a way they are more storyl ine elements but let me try and counter you if i will Farce..its true a person may never battle them but it is hard to belive based on logic that anyone parading themselves around as a "Great hero" without any shred of evidence at all wouldn't have to prove themselves at somepoint to a class who prides themself on a format of style or intellegence. I admit it needs work but if you don't expect it to happen with your dm than don't bother piking the class. Payday: I never said another class is not able to pay off a guard but because a Bogus hero makes a living of this he's natrual adept at knowing who to talk to to get the most from his money... A DM could easily say if you find the right person ill let it happen but Asking the wrong person will land you in a world of hurt. So its just based on a persona thats more likely to watch his back more than who can who cant Favor: (I myself have read this post so i know it somewhat) Yes once again despite your complaints i bring up another story point. Any adventure at one time unless the story is killing monster for hours on end in the woods alone will at one time save someone somwhere it's a nearly inevitable experience. Even if you just tackle a ruffian in a bar before things get out of hand. you just saved the barkeep hundreds in the cost of tables. I personnaly do not like Story skills but based on a charecters base personality i find it acceptable. Attrition: Attrition is the act of thinning out an enemys supplies or abilites so as long as the enemy is adjacent to you you are slowly wearing down their ability to fight by being in combat with them, keeping them distracted, or just distracting them by mocking them as an ally hurts them. So as long as you are next to them and able to annoy them or distract them to some degree you can reduce their combat effectivness. hope this clarifies. For inifinite Glibness and your thoughts on faking it i agree with you there. so no comment. Swing swing I'm dead!: I proably should have clarified this to a higher degree. If you suddenly get hit and drop dead to the ground stop breathing and to your enemy look dead all enemies on the field who are close to you ussualy adjcant will be like "hey he's dead" and not care the one in front of you will proably be the only one who will check to see if your dead. If the opposing check succeds the enemy will instantly yell out "WTF he's not dead" and your covers blown meaning your on the ground prone. And you can no longer spring up and hit enemies flat footed because they know your alive. I know its taboo to bring real world into the D&D world but its a know technich by ninjas to pretend to be dead and when an enemy draws close sweep and strike .... I think a few animals do it as well. Renown works as a conditional bluff to make yourself seem more popular as if pretending to be a duke to get into a fancy ball to assinate a lord or some crazy somthing or the other. Its simply a way to get stuff True colors: I agree with this one and will change it immediatly thank you for the suggestion This is simply Faking it to the highest degree but theres nothing more than improved "blank" so i needed to come up with somthing .... Sorry for the typo.
Earth_Intruder 08-01-07, 07:35 PM	thats really cool!