Bonus to base stats with Animal Companion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bonus to base stats with Animal Companion? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nos13
02-28-08, 10:32 PM Sorry if this doesn't belong; I wasn't sure if it would be put here or in the monster's section. Griping aside...

Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion's base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion's base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal's HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice (see the Monster Manual).

The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels).

(underlined by me)

I received these here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a

I know that an animal companion will gain feats and more skill points, sure, but what I was wondering was if it gains bonuses to its base stats (str, dex, con, wis, etc...) as if it were a character.

For instance, If an class owning an animal companion were to reach level 9 (giving plus 4 to the Anim Comp's HD), would this imply a +1 to any base save it wants?

Similar to getting feats at 1, 3, 6, 9, etc. HD, does an AnCo get bonuses to their saves at 4, 8, 12, 16, etc. HD?

Again, sorry if this is in the wrong spot. And thanks in advance for clearing this up.

--Nos13
dman11235
02-28-08, 11:10 PM Well, I'm not too sure. The rules are not clear on the stat adjustments for levels with monsters, particularly monsters in the care of PCs. I'd let you have it. None of the MM monsters seem to get it. Unless somebody comes here with something official, I'm going to have to say it's a DM call.
JaronK
02-28-08, 11:13 PM I know that an animal companion will gain feats and more skill points, sure, but what I was wondering was if it gains bonuses to its base stats (str, dex, con, wis, etc...) as if it were a character.

Every four hit dice, the animal will gain a +1 to any one stat. The only advancement it will not do is gain size catagories. I'm not sure what you're saying with the bonuses to saves thing, as people do not get bonuses to saves at every four hit dice.

JaronK
dman11235
02-28-08, 11:14 PM I think he meant the stat advancement.

Jaron, can you back that up at all? I don't remember seeing any official ruling one way or another. So I've been just (potentially) hoseruling it that they do get the stat boosts.
JaronK
02-28-08, 11:18 PM Just going by page 10 of the PHB, which says that characters gain a stat bump every four levels, combined with the bit about how they gain all the benefits of leveling up normally.

JaronK
Nos13
02-28-08, 11:20 PM I think he meant the stat advancement.

Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry. I forgot what it was called for a sec.

Jaron, can you back that up at all? I don't remember seeing any official ruling one way or another. So I've been just (potentially) hoseruling it that they do get the stat boosts.

Well, I've been houseruling, but I guess that works, too... (jp, man)

On a more serious note, I wasn't sure, so I made a DM check, and he wasn't sure either, so I thought I'd bring it to the boards. Hopefully someone will know.

Thanks a lot, though, guys. You've proved I'm not as crazy as they say I are!

--Nos13
dman11235
02-28-08, 11:24 PM Well, I think Jaron has it. So they do get the stat boosts. What I find odd though is that the monsters don't get stat boosts from HD. I guess it's all the same, they don't want to railroad the monsters into one fighting style TO much. But I guess DMs can boosts stats if they want to.
Vorsk
02-28-08, 11:34 PM My bad...
dman11235
02-28-08, 11:37 PM ...did you read the OP Vorsk?

(S)He already knows all of that stuff, the question was about stat boosts.
JaronK
02-28-08, 11:39 PM Well, I think Jaron has it. So they do get the stat boosts. What I find odd though is that the monsters don't get stat boosts from HD. I guess it's all the same, they don't want to railroad the monsters into one fighting style TO much. But I guess DMs can boosts stats if they want to.

Hmm. Well, monsters get size increases, after all, which boost stats a ton more.

JaronK
dman11235
02-28-08, 11:41 PM Yeah, but I'm talking about the stat boosts from HD, and the fact that base monsters don't have them.
JaronK
02-28-08, 11:44 PM That's a good point.

I guess it depends on whether an animal companion is more like a character, or more like a monster. They advance mostly as monsters, but they don't grow larger. So... yeah.

So I guess I'll revise my answer to "good question."

JaronK
Vorsk
02-28-08, 11:49 PM Sorry my bad for the miss read.

As for bonuses to base stats I would assume no, but it does come down to the DMs decision. Here are my thoughts as to why. As an animal companion every 3rd level the animal gains a +1Str/Dex, which is better than a normal player gets. Plus when it gains a new size it also increases in its stats, so why make the animal over powered by giving the animal another +1 per every four levels.

A +1 stat every four levels are for players, not companions, since players do not gain in size and they do not gain equivalent stat bonuses as the animal companion chart gives them.
JaronK
02-28-08, 11:52 PM Plus when it gains a new size it also increases in its stats,

Would it change your oppinion to know that Animal Companions do not gain size increases as monsters do?

JaronK
Vorsk
02-29-08, 12:00 AM Would it change your oppinion to know that Animal Companions do not gain size increases as monsters do?

JaronK
No it would not change my mind, since the animal companion chart gives your animal a +1Str and a +1Dex every 3 levels, so why add more? Otherwise if you want me to say yes, I am sure this thread would be flooded with comments as such "Animal Companions >>>> Fighters!"

If animal companions do not gain the size then I'd like to know, since I thought they did.
dman11235
02-29-08, 12:04 AM Have you read the ability?

The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels).

I'm sorry, I could be nicer. But this was at least in the FAQ, and apparently it's in the SRD, and possibly Errata (though I don't think so). I would like to know where you found that quote Nos13. I can't seem to find that in the SRD. I know it's there somewhere.
Nos13
02-29-08, 12:14 AM I'm sorry, I could be nicer. But this was at least in the FAQ, and apparently it's in the SRD, and possibly Errata (though I don't think so). I would like to know where you found that quote Nos13. I can't seem to find that in the SRD. I know it's there somewhere.

Sorry, I guess that's my fault. I didn't find it on the SRD, I guess I just assumed since I found it on that WotC website (as in the first post), it was considered SRD. At first glance I can't find it in the SRD either.

Sorry about that confusion. It might be in there, I just haven't found it yet either.

--Nos13
dman11235
02-29-08, 12:28 AM When in doubt: check the FAQ. It's in there at least. I know that. At least, unless the changed the FAQ to be wrong again (they did that with burst abilities in December last year).
Scion of Coldshard
02-29-08, 02:19 PM I've always assumed that the animal companions will get the extra stat boost, but that the point couldn't take the int above 2.

Monsters in general have so many problems with stats and skill bonuses that they are sadly a poor place to look for general information ;/
dman11235
02-29-08, 02:49 PM I remember an FAQ thing about when ACs get stat points, and they could put it into int according to the FAQ, but it was heavily discouraged. I do remember that now, thank you Scion.
Nos13
02-29-08, 04:28 PM I remember an FAQ thing about when ACs get stat points, and they could put it into int according to the FAQ, but it was heavily discouraged. I do remember that now, thank you Scion.

Well, the main thing I wanted to increase was strength (the AC has a weak attack). Since I'm not adding to int, can I do this?

--Nos13
dman11235
02-29-08, 04:32 PM Yes, I think. Other than the FAQ, no official rulings either way.
Ovistavin
02-29-08, 05:13 PM While I know the OP isn't asking about a size increase for Animal Companions, but the following FAQ entry I think is relevant to the current discussion.

When a druid reaches the equivalent of 3rd level, does
his wolf animal companion grow to Large size (with all of
the benefits and penalties associated with size increase)?
Does the wolf continue to gain bonus Hit Dice, even though
a wolf’s advancement normally maxes out at 6 Hit Dice?
Finally, does a wolf automatically become Large if your
druid of 3rd or higher level acquires it as an animal
companion, granting it bonus Hit Dice?

The animal companion rules—or, for that matter, pretty
much any other effect that grants a creature bonus Hit Dice—
don’t use the monster improvement rules presented in Chapter
4 of the Monster Manual. The rules in Monster Manual are for
creating tougher versions of existing monsters, not for
increasing the statistics of creatures who gain Hit Dice.
An animal’s normal advancement line has absolutely
nothing to do with the benefits it gains from being an animal
companion, and vice versa. A wolf animal companion doesn’t
become size Large when its Hit Dice increases to 4, nor is it
limited to the “normal” Hit Dice cap for wolves.

So by looking at the bolded statement Animal Companions don't recieve the ability bonus every 4 HD because it isn't mentioned in the Animal Companion side bar. They instead recieve a +1 to Str and Dex as shown in the chart.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nos13 02-28-08, 10:32 PM	Sorry if this doesn't belong; I wasn't sure if it would be put here or in the monster's section. Griping aside... Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion's base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion's base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal's HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice (see the Monster Manual). The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels). (underlined by me) I received these here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a I know that an animal companion will gain feats and more skill points, sure, but what I was wondering was if it gains bonuses to its base stats (str, dex, con, wis, etc...) as if it were a character. For instance, If an class owning an animal companion were to reach level 9 (giving plus 4 to the Anim Comp's HD), would this imply a +1 to any base save it wants? Similar to getting feats at 1, 3, 6, 9, etc. HD, does an AnCo get bonuses to their saves at 4, 8, 12, 16, etc. HD? Again, sorry if this is in the wrong spot. And thanks in advance for clearing this up. --Nos13
dman11235 02-28-08, 11:10 PM	Well, I'm not too sure. The rules are not clear on the stat adjustments for levels with monsters, particularly monsters in the care of PCs. I'd let you have it. None of the MM monsters seem to get it. Unless somebody comes here with something official, I'm going to have to say it's a DM call.
JaronK 02-28-08, 11:13 PM	I know that an animal companion will gain feats and more skill points, sure, but what I was wondering was if it gains bonuses to its base stats (str, dex, con, wis, etc...) as if it were a character. Every four hit dice, the animal will gain a +1 to any one stat. The only advancement it will not do is gain size catagories. I'm not sure what you're saying with the bonuses to saves thing, as people do not get bonuses to saves at every four hit dice. JaronK
dman11235 02-28-08, 11:14 PM	I think he meant the stat advancement. Jaron, can you back that up at all? I don't remember seeing any official ruling one way or another. So I've been just (potentially) hoseruling it that they do get the stat boosts.
JaronK 02-28-08, 11:18 PM	Just going by page 10 of the PHB, which says that characters gain a stat bump every four levels, combined with the bit about how they gain all the benefits of leveling up normally. JaronK
Nos13 02-28-08, 11:20 PM	I think he meant the stat advancement. Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry. I forgot what it was called for a sec. Jaron, can you back that up at all? I don't remember seeing any official ruling one way or another. So I've been just (potentially) hoseruling it that they do get the stat boosts. Well, I've been houseruling, but I guess that works, too... (jp, man) On a more serious note, I wasn't sure, so I made a DM check, and he wasn't sure either, so I thought I'd bring it to the boards. Hopefully someone will know. Thanks a lot, though, guys. You've proved I'm not as crazy as they say I are! --Nos13
dman11235 02-28-08, 11:24 PM	Well, I think Jaron has it. So they do get the stat boosts. What I find odd though is that the monsters don't get stat boosts from HD. I guess it's all the same, they don't want to railroad the monsters into one fighting style TO much. But I guess DMs can boosts stats if they want to.
Vorsk 02-28-08, 11:34 PM	My bad...
dman11235 02-28-08, 11:37 PM	...did you read the OP Vorsk? (S)He already knows all of that stuff, the question was about stat boosts.
JaronK 02-28-08, 11:39 PM	Well, I think Jaron has it. So they do get the stat boosts. What I find odd though is that the monsters don't get stat boosts from HD. I guess it's all the same, they don't want to railroad the monsters into one fighting style TO much. But I guess DMs can boosts stats if they want to. Hmm. Well, monsters get size increases, after all, which boost stats a ton more. JaronK
dman11235 02-28-08, 11:41 PM	Yeah, but I'm talking about the stat boosts from HD, and the fact that base monsters don't have them.
JaronK 02-28-08, 11:44 PM	That's a good point. I guess it depends on whether an animal companion is more like a character, or more like a monster. They advance mostly as monsters, but they don't grow larger. So... yeah. So I guess I'll revise my answer to "good question." JaronK
Vorsk 02-28-08, 11:49 PM	Sorry my bad for the miss read. As for bonuses to base stats I would assume no, but it does come down to the DMs decision. Here are my thoughts as to why. As an animal companion every 3rd level the animal gains a +1Str/Dex, which is better than a normal player gets. Plus when it gains a new size it also increases in its stats, so why make the animal over powered by giving the animal another +1 per every four levels. A +1 stat every four levels are for players, not companions, since players do not gain in size and they do not gain equivalent stat bonuses as the animal companion chart gives them.
JaronK 02-28-08, 11:52 PM	Plus when it gains a new size it also increases in its stats, Would it change your oppinion to know that Animal Companions do not gain size increases as monsters do? JaronK
Vorsk 02-29-08, 12:00 AM	Would it change your oppinion to know that Animal Companions do not gain size increases as monsters do? JaronK No it would not change my mind, since the animal companion chart gives your animal a +1Str and a +1Dex every 3 levels, so why add more? Otherwise if you want me to say yes, I am sure this thread would be flooded with comments as such "Animal Companions >>>> Fighters!" If animal companions do not gain the size then I'd like to know, since I thought they did.
dman11235 02-29-08, 12:04 AM	Have you read the ability? The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels). I'm sorry, I could be nicer. But this was at least in the FAQ, and apparently it's in the SRD, and possibly Errata (though I don't think so). I would like to know where you found that quote Nos13. I can't seem to find that in the SRD. I know it's there somewhere.
Nos13 02-29-08, 12:14 AM	I'm sorry, I could be nicer. But this was at least in the FAQ, and apparently it's in the SRD, and possibly Errata (though I don't think so). I would like to know where you found that quote Nos13. I can't seem to find that in the SRD. I know it's there somewhere. Sorry, I guess that's my fault. I didn't find it on the SRD, I guess I just assumed since I found it on that WotC website (as in the first post), it was considered SRD. At first glance I can't find it in the SRD either. Sorry about that confusion. It might be in there, I just haven't found it yet either. --Nos13
dman11235 02-29-08, 12:28 AM	When in doubt: check the FAQ. It's in there at least. I know that. At least, unless the changed the FAQ to be wrong again (they did that with burst abilities in December last year).
Scion of Coldshard 02-29-08, 02:19 PM	I've always assumed that the animal companions will get the extra stat boost, but that the point couldn't take the int above 2. Monsters in general have so many problems with stats and skill bonuses that they are sadly a poor place to look for general information ;/
dman11235 02-29-08, 02:49 PM	I remember an FAQ thing about when ACs get stat points, and they could put it into int according to the FAQ, but it was heavily discouraged. I do remember that now, thank you Scion.
Nos13 02-29-08, 04:28 PM	I remember an FAQ thing about when ACs get stat points, and they could put it into int according to the FAQ, but it was heavily discouraged. I do remember that now, thank you Scion. Well, the main thing I wanted to increase was strength (the AC has a weak attack). Since I'm not adding to int, can I do this? --Nos13
dman11235 02-29-08, 04:32 PM	Yes, I think. Other than the FAQ, no official rulings either way.
Ovistavin 02-29-08, 05:13 PM	While I know the OP isn't asking about a size increase for Animal Companions, but the following FAQ entry I think is relevant to the current discussion. When a druid reaches the equivalent of 3rd level, does his wolf animal companion grow to Large size (with all of the benefits and penalties associated with size increase)? Does the wolf continue to gain bonus Hit Dice, even though a wolf’s advancement normally maxes out at 6 Hit Dice? Finally, does a wolf automatically become Large if your druid of 3rd or higher level acquires it as an animal companion, granting it bonus Hit Dice? The animal companion rules—or, for that matter, pretty much any other effect that grants a creature bonus Hit Dice— don’t use the monster improvement rules presented in Chapter 4 of the Monster Manual. The rules in Monster Manual are for creating tougher versions of existing monsters, not for increasing the statistics of creatures who gain Hit Dice. An animal’s normal advancement line has absolutely nothing to do with the benefits it gains from being an animal companion, and vice versa. A wolf animal companion doesn’t become size Large when its Hit Dice increases to 4, nor is it limited to the “normal” Hit Dice cap for wolves. So by looking at the bolded statement Animal Companions don't recieve the ability bonus every 4 HD because it isn't mentioned in the Animal Companion side bar. They instead recieve a +1 to Str and Dex as shown in the chart.