Book of Nine Swords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Book of Nine Swords [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SadisticFishing
02-03-07, 02:59 PM Hey... Well, I'm starting another campaign, and we all prerolled stats... I got:

14, 16, 11, 18, 17, 18

so you can guess how ecstatic I am.

But, I don't know what class to play, and a friend had lent me the ToB, and both Swordsage and Warblade look like they could easily abuse such high stats... But they seem very counter-intuitive classes, in that they all do very well while full round attacking, (Battle Ardor, Swordsage dual-wielding) but they can't while they use strikes, which are also imporant (Insightful strikes, the strikes themselves)...

I was planning on (for Swordsage) going 11/18/17/x/18/x... Then getting the Shadow Blade and Weapon Finess feats, but what maneuvers would I learn and use? What weapons? I really want to abuse the insightful strikes thing.

Or, Warblade. 18/16/17/18/11/14. Using a Falchion, either Keening it or getting Improved Critical, and just tearing things apart. Another fun thing is that I can switch to something more powerful if I'm expecting Undead (or constructs, or whatever). But again, though less so, what maneuvers and et cetera?

Thanks a lot for all the help! (I hope)

Oh by the by we're probably starting somewhere between level 4 and 6. It's a world lead by *sigh* bards.
Cold Napalm
02-03-07, 03:06 PM The warblade is great at tearing thing apart and white raven style is oh so fun. What to play depends on your party mostly from an optimizing point, but when I play a ToB character I usually use a warblade that is mainly white raven with some diamond mind counters and iron heart stances.
Crimson_Concerto
02-03-07, 03:08 PM But, I don't know what class to play, and a friend had lent me the ToB, and both Swordsage and Warblade look like they could easily abuse such high stats... But they seem very counter-intuitive classes, in that they all do very well while full round attacking, (Battle Ardor, Swordsage dual-wielding) but they can't while they use strikes, which are also imporant (Insightful strikes, the strikes themselves)...Well that's the tradeoff for getting such fun and awesome abilities, but you shouldn't be disappointed. Both are great classes. :P

I was planning on (for Swordsage) going 11/18/17/x/18/x... Then getting the Shadow Blade and Weapon Finess feats, but what maneuvers would I learn and use? What weapons? I really want to abuse the insightful strikes thing.Well, if you're going to be taking Shadow Blade, specializing in the Shadow Hand discepline only seems natural. For even more bonus damage Desert Wind offers a few options as well.
Of course, one option to consider on the weapons side is a simple Unarmed Strike. You can TWF with it, and it's ALSO a favored weapon for the Setting Sun, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw disceplines.

Or, Warblade. 18/16/17/18/11/14. Using a Falchion, either Keening it or getting Improved Critical, and just tearing things apart. Another fun thing is that I can switch to something more powerful if I'm expecting Undead (or constructs, or whatever). But again, though less so, what maneuvers and et cetera?
Actually, a fun thing to do with that Keen Falchion is to take the first level Tiger Clas stance Blood in the Water. I did this while duel-weilding keen scimitars, and the fun simply did not end. :D

Thanks a lot for all the help! (I hope)You're welcome! :)

Oh by the by we're probably starting somewhere between level 4 and 6. It's a world lead by *sigh* bards.:rofl:
ALL worlds are led by bards, duh! It's only natural, as they have the best diplomacy checks and such in the game, and what exactly are politicians supposed to be doing? Of if you mean in a military way, there has to be SOMEBODY with a high CHA motivating and commanding the troops. :)
SadisticFishing
02-03-07, 03:11 PM Actually I've always wanted to Dual Wield Scimitars... Don't I need level 9 for imp crit though?

So I'd basically get a lot of points in Tiger Claw, and hit things a lot? Hrm. Sounds suspiciously enjoyable.

White Raven also looks good though.

What's the feat called that lets you use a one handed weapon as a light weapon in your off hand?

PS Don't take this as I'm done looking for info, I need more if possible >.>
Crimson_Concerto
02-03-07, 03:15 PM Actually I've always wanted to Dual Wield Scimitars... Don't I need level 9 for imp crit though?Don't take Improved Critical. Get each scimitar enchanted with Keen. It's only a +1 enchantment each, and feats are a much more limited resource than money in most cases.

What's the feat called that lets you use a one handed weapon as a light weapon in your off hand?That would be Oversized TWF in Complete Adventurer. I used it as well. :D
Templario
02-03-07, 03:15 PM The feat is called Oversized two-weapon fighting, in Complete Adventurer.

If you're going to play swordsage, Adaptive Style is a must-have.
SadisticFishing
02-03-07, 03:32 PM Are there any other must-have TWF scimitar crit spec feats?
Templario
02-03-07, 03:42 PM Two-weapon rend is very interesting.

If you get the shadow hand's maneuvers that give sneak (or having levels in rogue), Telling Blow will let you apply the sneak damage when you crit someone.

Both feats comes from PHB II.
DarkRhystar
02-03-07, 03:43 PM If you want to use a Dexterity-based Swordsage, you're probably going to want either Shortswords or Spiked Chain as your weapon.

Recommended feats: Adaptive Style, Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, Two-weapon Fighting (If Shortswords), Gloom Razor (if you like Assassin's Stance a lot).

Something to remember is that Shadow Blade adds damage based on Dexterity. It doesn't replace your normal Strength bonus to damage. Having a decent-high Strength never hurts.

I also very much recommend taking a look at the Desert Wind boosts like Burning Blade and Searing Blade. Activating those before Full Attacking is nasty.
Mister_Sinister
02-03-07, 04:16 PM I have a fun little swordsage build I worked out which basically maxes out 5 disciplines. You could do it with 6, but I reckon it's just showing off. Here goes:

Master of Five Stub

Swordsage 20

Manoeuvre Stub

1) Burning Blade, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Mighty Throw, Distracting Ember, Wolf Fang Strike + Island of Blades
2) Sudden Leap + Child of Shadow
3) Emerald Razor + Flame’s Blessing
4) Cloak of Deception, Wolf Fang Strike -> Flashing Sun
5) Mind Over Body + Assassin’s Stance
6) Mighty Throw -> Devastating Throw, Insightful Strike
7) Ruby Nightmare Blade
8) Death From Above, Burning Blade -> Searing Blade
9) Pouncing Charge + Leaping Dragon Stance
10) Bloodletting Strike, Devastating Throw -> Soaring Throw
11) Greater Insightful Strike, Shadow Noose
12) Ring of Fire
13) Swooping Dragon Strike
14) Searing Blade -> Inferno Blade, Avalance of Blades + Shifting Defence
15) Girallon Windmill Fleshrip
16) Raging Mongoose, Death From Above -> Diamond Nightmare Blade + Wolf Pack Tactics
17) Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike
18) Tornado Throw, Ruby Nightmare Blade -> Time Stands Still
19) Feral Death Blow
20) (anything I damn well want)

Feat + Class Stub

1) Two-Weapon Fighting, Shadow Blade quick to act +1, discipline focus (SH, Weapon Focus)
2) AC bonus
3) Weapon Finesse
4) [stat increase], Discipline focus (TC, insightful strike)
5) Quick to act +2
6) Agile Athlete
7) Sense magic
8) [stat increase], Discipline focus (SH, defensive stance)
9) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, evasion
10) Quick to act +3
11) [dead level]
12) [stat increase], Dual Strike, discipline focus (SH, insightful strike)
13) [dead level]
14) [dead level]
15) [feat], quick to act +4
16) [stat increase], discipline focus (pretty much anything)
17) Improved evasion
18) [feat]
19) [dead]
20) [stat increase], dual boost 3/day, quick to act +5

The notation should be self-explanatory. The 'takeoff level' for this build is around 3 or so. Have fun!
BrazilRascal
02-03-07, 06:05 PM Just a reminder? Don't forget to get the highest Shadow Hand Teleport you can. Blinking 50' to and fro is awesome. You can teleport to a good spot and charge using some Tiger Claw nastiness, use it to move into flanking positions without risking AoOs, use it to suprise enemies that fly too close...it's unending fun.

If you go Warblade, it's worth a feat to learn the 7th level version: it has no pre-requisites! And a warblade can -really- spam it, thanks to their fast recovery system.
periscope
02-03-07, 06:16 PM Actually, instead of 2 weapon fighting with scimitars, you could take the exotic weapon prof feat (double scimitar).

Or you could use 2 great scimitars instead if your willing to burn a feat for proficiency with them. If your not familiar their 1d8 18-20 weapons from the Sandstorm supplement.

If you prefer a 2 handed weapon, the great falchion is also good. 2d6 18-20 slashing also from the sandstorm supplement.

Though I prefer crusaders myself (they have a higher survival rate).

I would also suggest the improved toughness feat for your warblade or swordsage.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
02-03-07, 08:11 PM If you don't want to use a feat for Over Sized, one level of Dervish solves the problem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SadisticFishing 02-03-07, 02:59 PM	Hey... Well, I'm starting another campaign, and we all prerolled stats... I got: 14, 16, 11, 18, 17, 18 so you can guess how ecstatic I am. But, I don't know what class to play, and a friend had lent me the ToB, and both Swordsage and Warblade look like they could easily abuse such high stats... But they seem very counter-intuitive classes, in that they all do very well while full round attacking, (Battle Ardor, Swordsage dual-wielding) but they can't while they use strikes, which are also imporant (Insightful strikes, the strikes themselves)... I was planning on (for Swordsage) going 11/18/17/x/18/x... Then getting the Shadow Blade and Weapon Finess feats, but what maneuvers would I learn and use? What weapons? I really want to abuse the insightful strikes thing. Or, Warblade. 18/16/17/18/11/14. Using a Falchion, either Keening it or getting Improved Critical, and just tearing things apart. Another fun thing is that I can switch to something more powerful if I'm expecting Undead (or constructs, or whatever). But again, though less so, what maneuvers and et cetera? Thanks a lot for all the help! (I hope) Oh by the by we're probably starting somewhere between level 4 and 6. It's a world lead by sigh bards.
Cold Napalm 02-03-07, 03:06 PM	The warblade is great at tearing thing apart and white raven style is oh so fun. What to play depends on your party mostly from an optimizing point, but when I play a ToB character I usually use a warblade that is mainly white raven with some diamond mind counters and iron heart stances.
Crimson_Concerto 02-03-07, 03:08 PM	But, I don't know what class to play, and a friend had lent me the ToB, and both Swordsage and Warblade look like they could easily abuse such high stats... But they seem very counter-intuitive classes, in that they all do very well while full round attacking, (Battle Ardor, Swordsage dual-wielding) but they can't while they use strikes, which are also imporant (Insightful strikes, the strikes themselves)...Well that's the tradeoff for getting such fun and awesome abilities, but you shouldn't be disappointed. Both are great classes. :P I was planning on (for Swordsage) going 11/18/17/x/18/x... Then getting the Shadow Blade and Weapon Finess feats, but what maneuvers would I learn and use? What weapons? I really want to abuse the insightful strikes thing.Well, if you're going to be taking Shadow Blade, specializing in the Shadow Hand discepline only seems natural. For even more bonus damage Desert Wind offers a few options as well. Of course, one option to consider on the weapons side is a simple Unarmed Strike. You can TWF with it, and it's ALSO a favored weapon for the Setting Sun, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw disceplines. Or, Warblade. 18/16/17/18/11/14. Using a Falchion, either Keening it or getting Improved Critical, and just tearing things apart. Another fun thing is that I can switch to something more powerful if I'm expecting Undead (or constructs, or whatever). But again, though less so, what maneuvers and et cetera? Actually, a fun thing to do with that Keen Falchion is to take the first level Tiger Clas stance Blood in the Water. I did this while duel-weilding keen scimitars, and the fun simply did not end. :D Thanks a lot for all the help! (I hope)You're welcome! :) Oh by the by we're probably starting somewhere between level 4 and 6. It's a world lead by sigh bards.:rofl: ALL worlds are led by bards, duh! It's only natural, as they have the best diplomacy checks and such in the game, and what exactly are politicians supposed to be doing? Of if you mean in a military way, there has to be SOMEBODY with a high CHA motivating and commanding the troops. :)
SadisticFishing 02-03-07, 03:11 PM	Actually I've always wanted to Dual Wield Scimitars... Don't I need level 9 for imp crit though? So I'd basically get a lot of points in Tiger Claw, and hit things a lot? Hrm. Sounds suspiciously enjoyable. White Raven also looks good though. What's the feat called that lets you use a one handed weapon as a light weapon in your off hand? PS Don't take this as I'm done looking for info, I need more if possible >.>
Crimson_Concerto 02-03-07, 03:15 PM	Actually I've always wanted to Dual Wield Scimitars... Don't I need level 9 for imp crit though?Don't take Improved Critical. Get each scimitar enchanted with Keen. It's only a +1 enchantment each, and feats are a much more limited resource than money in most cases. What's the feat called that lets you use a one handed weapon as a light weapon in your off hand?That would be Oversized TWF in Complete Adventurer. I used it as well. :D
Templario 02-03-07, 03:15 PM	The feat is called Oversized two-weapon fighting, in Complete Adventurer. If you're going to play swordsage, Adaptive Style is a must-have.
SadisticFishing 02-03-07, 03:32 PM	Are there any other must-have TWF scimitar crit spec feats?
Templario 02-03-07, 03:42 PM	Two-weapon rend is very interesting. If you get the shadow hand's maneuvers that give sneak (or having levels in rogue), Telling Blow will let you apply the sneak damage when you crit someone. Both feats comes from PHB II.
DarkRhystar 02-03-07, 03:43 PM	If you want to use a Dexterity-based Swordsage, you're probably going to want either Shortswords or Spiked Chain as your weapon. Recommended feats: Adaptive Style, Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, Two-weapon Fighting (If Shortswords), Gloom Razor (if you like Assassin's Stance a lot). Something to remember is that Shadow Blade adds damage based on Dexterity. It doesn't replace your normal Strength bonus to damage. Having a decent-high Strength never hurts. I also very much recommend taking a look at the Desert Wind boosts like Burning Blade and Searing Blade. Activating those before Full Attacking is nasty.
Mister_Sinister 02-03-07, 04:16 PM	I have a fun little swordsage build I worked out which basically maxes out 5 disciplines. You could do it with 6, but I reckon it's just showing off. Here goes: Master of Five Stub Swordsage 20 Manoeuvre Stub 1) Burning Blade, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Mighty Throw, Distracting Ember, Wolf Fang Strike + Island of Blades 2) Sudden Leap + Child of Shadow 3) Emerald Razor + Flame’s Blessing 4) Cloak of Deception, Wolf Fang Strike -> Flashing Sun 5) Mind Over Body + Assassin’s Stance 6) Mighty Throw -> Devastating Throw, Insightful Strike 7) Ruby Nightmare Blade 8) Death From Above, Burning Blade -> Searing Blade 9) Pouncing Charge + Leaping Dragon Stance 10) Bloodletting Strike, Devastating Throw -> Soaring Throw 11) Greater Insightful Strike, Shadow Noose 12) Ring of Fire 13) Swooping Dragon Strike 14) Searing Blade -> Inferno Blade, Avalance of Blades + Shifting Defence 15) Girallon Windmill Fleshrip 16) Raging Mongoose, Death From Above -> Diamond Nightmare Blade + Wolf Pack Tactics 17) Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike 18) Tornado Throw, Ruby Nightmare Blade -> Time Stands Still 19) Feral Death Blow 20) (anything I damn well want) Feat + Class Stub 1) Two-Weapon Fighting, Shadow Blade quick to act +1, discipline focus (SH, Weapon Focus) 2) AC bonus 3) Weapon Finesse 4) [stat increase], Discipline focus (TC, insightful strike) 5) Quick to act +2 6) Agile Athlete 7) Sense magic 8) [stat increase], Discipline focus (SH, defensive stance) 9) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, evasion 10) Quick to act +3 11) [dead level] 12) [stat increase], Dual Strike, discipline focus (SH, insightful strike) 13) [dead level] 14) [dead level] 15) [feat], quick to act +4 16) [stat increase], discipline focus (pretty much anything) 17) Improved evasion 18) [feat] 19) [dead] 20) [stat increase], dual boost 3/day, quick to act +5 The notation should be self-explanatory. The 'takeoff level' for this build is around 3 or so. Have fun!
BrazilRascal 02-03-07, 06:05 PM	Just a reminder? Don't forget to get the highest Shadow Hand Teleport you can. Blinking 50' to and fro is awesome. You can teleport to a good spot and charge using some Tiger Claw nastiness, use it to move into flanking positions without risking AoOs, use it to suprise enemies that fly too close...it's unending fun. If you go Warblade, it's worth a feat to learn the 7th level version: it has no pre-requisites! And a warblade can -really- spam it, thanks to their fast recovery system.
periscope 02-03-07, 06:16 PM	Actually, instead of 2 weapon fighting with scimitars, you could take the exotic weapon prof feat (double scimitar). Or you could use 2 great scimitars instead if your willing to burn a feat for proficiency with them. If your not familiar their 1d8 18-20 weapons from the Sandstorm supplement. If you prefer a 2 handed weapon, the great falchion is also good. 2d6 18-20 slashing also from the sandstorm supplement. Though I prefer crusaders myself (they have a higher survival rate). I would also suggest the improved toughness feat for your warblade or swordsage.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 02-03-07, 08:11 PM	If you don't want to use a feat for Over Sized, one level of Dervish solves the problem.