Boosting the Healer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Boosting the Healer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
~Black Knight~
07-25-05, 12:45 PM The healer (miniatures handbook) is considered by most to be a weak class. I love the concept, but I'd like to give my players some reason to take this class. Healers are pretty bad, since even normal clerics can be better than healers at healing, which kind of ruins the point of becoming one.

Do you have any suggestions? How could I make the healer more attractive as a class?
Nephlite
07-25-05, 12:51 PM The healer (miniatures handbook) is considered by most to be a weak class. I love the concept, but I'd like to give my players some reason to take this class. Healers are pretty bad, since even normal clerics can be better than healers at healing, which kind of ruins the point of becoming one.

Do you have any suggestions? How could I make the healer more attractive as a class?

Use the one in Warcraft Players Handbook.

It gets Brew Potion at level 1, bonus feats at every level divisible by 5, and +1 caster to healing spells.(don'r get domains though unlike Cleric). They get more skills/points, but only light armor starting with proficiency.
Thiefling
07-25-05, 01:08 PM Good topic.
I am myself thinking about taking Healer as my character for the next 3.5 my group are gonna play and would also find it very useful with some ideas on what to "add" to make it a bit more balanced.

I have been thinking about a familiar, but I dont know how much "power" that count for...

/Thiefling
BloodGod
07-25-05, 01:13 PM The healer (miniatures handbook) is considered by most to be a weak class. I love the concept, but I'd like to give my players some reason to take this class. Healers are pretty bad, since even normal clerics can be better than healers at healing, which kind of ruins the point of becoming one.

Do you have any suggestions? How could I make the healer more attractive as a class?

You must be reading wrong. Or perhaps we're talking about different classes. It is impossible for a normal cleric to be better at healing than a healer. Healer gets the various spells as spell like abilities as he levels. Including Resurection at 20th level. Doesn't it also get to add its Charisma to all healing spells or some such thing? I really don't understand why you, for some reason, would think that a normal cleric would make a better healer than the healer class. Please explain.

-BG
Molu Kai
07-25-05, 01:16 PM Healer's also get a unicorn companion. Which is kind of goofy. I wish they had some alternative to that.
~Black Knight~
07-25-05, 01:36 PM Hmm... would it be unbalanced to allow all conjuration (healing) spells from the healer spell list to be quickened, without changing their level? This would be a major power boost. If the healer gained the ability at 16th level or so, the class could be better at high levels.
~Black Knight~
07-25-05, 01:55 PM You must be reading wrong. Or perhaps we're talking about different classes. It is impossible for a normal cleric to be better at healing than a healer. Healer gets the various spells as spell like abilities as he levels. Including Resurection at 20th level. Doesn't it also get to add its Charisma to all healing spells or some such thing? I really don't understand why you, for some reason, would think that a normal cleric would make a better healer than the healer class. Please explain.

Yes, it is possible, and I'm not reading the class wrong. Clerics can become better healers than than the healer class with little effort. Firstly, they gain spontaneous casting of cure spells. Also, taking the healing domain improves the caster level of the cleric's healing spells, which will give them a +10 hp boost on mass heal at 20th level. This easily beats the cha bonus to healing spells. On top of this, clerics can take divine feats such as Sacred Boost (which maximizes healing spells) and Sacred Healing (which grants allies fast healing 3).
Thiefling
07-25-05, 01:56 PM I dont know if i would call clerics "better" helers, but one extra healing spell from the healing domain and casting at one spell lvl higher than your lvl.

The extra spell is a big boost I think, and the healer need wisdom score that is in average 2 points higher than the cleric to "catch up" in number of spells.

And the same thing for charisma, need 2 points higher stat to catch up to the higher casting lvl. (hope I did not get anything wrong there)

Now.. a healer might not need as high stats in other characteristics as a cleric, but 4 points is quite alot, and that just to make it even.

The healer get a companion and some other abilities, but do that really even it out against the much greater spell selection, 2 domains and armor for a cleric? I'm not sure about it, but I feel the healer is a tiny bit lower in power atleast.

Anyhow, I will play that healer in the next campaing no matter, I really like the concept and dont really care if I'm a bit underpowered compared to the other players, they'll just have to save my butt :ayyyy!:

(hope the thread dont have 25 new posts while I wrote this)
DM Zoc
07-25-05, 03:06 PM The healer has a few minor points that lets it slip ahead of the cleric in healing potential.

First of all, the spell Close Wounds: in the hands of any cleric, this heals minimally; the healer can make this count. Even CMW is a major healing tool at low levels, when it means you're curing three or four points.

Secondly, the unicorn companion: the unicorn can cast spells, including one useful one that most clerics rarely prepare unless they have foreknowledge. In general, though, this critter amounts to three turns per day where you get an extra healing spell. More importantly, at least in my opinion, the unicorn's aura prevents anyone inside from being affected by mind-control, which has saved my party more times than is reasonable.

This is without mentioning that the healer rarely needs to prepare the non-curing spells, as the spell-like abilities are numerous enough to cover any sudden unforeseen circumstance, at least long enough for the party to regroup and think things over.
Weapons Lord
07-25-05, 04:47 PM I played a healer who took a vow of poverty and she was the best healer I have ever seen, bar non. She didn't have the overall versatility of a cleric, but she could cast cure spells ALL day long. I kept her out of most combat except when absolutely necessary and even then, she used a long spear so she could attack at a distance.

I wouldn't try beefing the class up at all. I think the healer class is exactly what it was meant to be.....a healer.

As far as the unicorn goes, try talking to your DM to see what alternatives you might have instead of a unicorn companion.
BloodGod
07-25-05, 07:53 PM I don't see how spontaneously casting cures makes a cleric a better healer than a healer. All a healer has, afterall, is pretty much cure spells. And I'd say that all the Cleanse abilities are far more profitable than the extra casting of heal. Let's compare though, shall we, what you named that makes a 20th level healing based cleric better than a 20th level Healer. +10 hp on every casting of mass heal versus casting true resurection once per week with no need for spell components. But, whatever. Hey, if you think it's underpowered, you can try to talk your DM into upping its abilities or something. If he does, great. But, I'd never let someone change the class other than possibly switching out another Cleanse ability in exchange for the unicorn.

-BG
Manyfist
07-25-05, 11:24 PM :cool: The Healer gets an freaking Unicorn, for free! Who says that a Cleric is good, they don't get a Unicorn for free! :cool: Maybe Healer should have one casting stats. I think the Cleric is should of been what the Healer is now. Evil Cleric, with an Black Unicorn...sweet.
Tweedledope
07-25-05, 11:59 PM Healer's shine at early levels and with proper multiclassing, can become very strong casters. I played a nice little build that involved the following:

Healer 8/Apostle of Peace 2/Celestial Mystic 10

I had the Saint template but bought it off as soon as i could. My caster level was pretty weak but I had awesome abilities. It was VERY rare that I was attacked on the battlefield (thanks to my constant effect sanctuary) and if I was most of the time I was uninjured or I would dodge the damage through my mock-evasion.

The only downside was the fact that I was pretty much a one trick pony. But I was a damned Stallion when it came to healing and being the ultimate pacifist.

-=Tweedledope=-
Emeramber
07-26-05, 12:28 AM In my gaming group, we use the healer with one slight but telling adjustment. We treat them as list-based spontaneous casters, akin to the Warmage. This allows them to be tightly focused in healing, yet flexible within that focus. Without that modification, I'd have to say that the Cleric is, generally, the better "healer" in that they can memorize, for example, a Lesser Restoration, then abort it to healing, whereas the Healer would have to predict which spell to memorize. With the "fast-cast" option, the healer is able to draw on their training to use the spell from their list that they need at any given time.

The Cleanse line of abilities becomes marginally less vital with the increased fexibility, but hardly obsolete. Each one is a spell that doesn't have to be used. Additionally, as supernatural abilities, they don't provoke AoOs (important before 7th level) they aren't subject to countering, and they don't have components, including verbal, so their useful in Silence.

I have considered the unthinkable for my campaign world, which would be making them Arcane casters, but I haven't done that yet. In such a case, they would be students of healing magic and science, distinctly seperate from the miracles of the divine caster.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
~Black Knight~ 07-25-05, 12:45 PM	The healer (miniatures handbook) is considered by most to be a weak class. I love the concept, but I'd like to give my players some reason to take this class. Healers are pretty bad, since even normal clerics can be better than healers at healing, which kind of ruins the point of becoming one. Do you have any suggestions? How could I make the healer more attractive as a class?
Nephlite 07-25-05, 12:51 PM	The healer (miniatures handbook) is considered by most to be a weak class. I love the concept, but I'd like to give my players some reason to take this class. Healers are pretty bad, since even normal clerics can be better than healers at healing, which kind of ruins the point of becoming one. Do you have any suggestions? How could I make the healer more attractive as a class? Use the one in Warcraft Players Handbook. It gets Brew Potion at level 1, bonus feats at every level divisible by 5, and +1 caster to healing spells.(don'r get domains though unlike Cleric). They get more skills/points, but only light armor starting with proficiency.
Thiefling 07-25-05, 01:08 PM	Good topic. I am myself thinking about taking Healer as my character for the next 3.5 my group are gonna play and would also find it very useful with some ideas on what to "add" to make it a bit more balanced. I have been thinking about a familiar, but I dont know how much "power" that count for... /Thiefling
BloodGod 07-25-05, 01:13 PM	The healer (miniatures handbook) is considered by most to be a weak class. I love the concept, but I'd like to give my players some reason to take this class. Healers are pretty bad, since even normal clerics can be better than healers at healing, which kind of ruins the point of becoming one. Do you have any suggestions? How could I make the healer more attractive as a class? You must be reading wrong. Or perhaps we're talking about different classes. It is impossible for a normal cleric to be better at healing than a healer. Healer gets the various spells as spell like abilities as he levels. Including Resurection at 20th level. Doesn't it also get to add its Charisma to all healing spells or some such thing? I really don't understand why you, for some reason, would think that a normal cleric would make a better healer than the healer class. Please explain. -BG
Molu Kai 07-25-05, 01:16 PM	Healer's also get a unicorn companion. Which is kind of goofy. I wish they had some alternative to that.
~Black Knight~ 07-25-05, 01:36 PM	Hmm... would it be unbalanced to allow all conjuration (healing) spells from the healer spell list to be quickened, without changing their level? This would be a major power boost. If the healer gained the ability at 16th level or so, the class could be better at high levels.
~Black Knight~ 07-25-05, 01:55 PM	You must be reading wrong. Or perhaps we're talking about different classes. It is impossible for a normal cleric to be better at healing than a healer. Healer gets the various spells as spell like abilities as he levels. Including Resurection at 20th level. Doesn't it also get to add its Charisma to all healing spells or some such thing? I really don't understand why you, for some reason, would think that a normal cleric would make a better healer than the healer class. Please explain. Yes, it is possible, and I'm not reading the class wrong. Clerics can become better healers than than the healer class with little effort. Firstly, they gain spontaneous casting of cure spells. Also, taking the healing domain improves the caster level of the cleric's healing spells, which will give them a +10 hp boost on mass heal at 20th level. This easily beats the cha bonus to healing spells. On top of this, clerics can take divine feats such as Sacred Boost (which maximizes healing spells) and Sacred Healing (which grants allies fast healing 3).
Thiefling 07-25-05, 01:56 PM	I dont know if i would call clerics "better" helers, but one extra healing spell from the healing domain and casting at one spell lvl higher than your lvl. The extra spell is a big boost I think, and the healer need wisdom score that is in average 2 points higher than the cleric to "catch up" in number of spells. And the same thing for charisma, need 2 points higher stat to catch up to the higher casting lvl. (hope I did not get anything wrong there) Now.. a healer might not need as high stats in other characteristics as a cleric, but 4 points is quite alot, and that just to make it even. The healer get a companion and some other abilities, but do that really even it out against the much greater spell selection, 2 domains and armor for a cleric? I'm not sure about it, but I feel the healer is a tiny bit lower in power atleast. Anyhow, I will play that healer in the next campaing no matter, I really like the concept and dont really care if I'm a bit underpowered compared to the other players, they'll just have to save my butt :ayyyy!: (hope the thread dont have 25 new posts while I wrote this)
DM Zoc 07-25-05, 03:06 PM	The healer has a few minor points that lets it slip ahead of the cleric in healing potential. First of all, the spell Close Wounds: in the hands of any cleric, this heals minimally; the healer can make this count. Even CMW is a major healing tool at low levels, when it means you're curing three or four points. Secondly, the unicorn companion: the unicorn can cast spells, including one useful one that most clerics rarely prepare unless they have foreknowledge. In general, though, this critter amounts to three turns per day where you get an extra healing spell. More importantly, at least in my opinion, the unicorn's aura prevents anyone inside from being affected by mind-control, which has saved my party more times than is reasonable. This is without mentioning that the healer rarely needs to prepare the non-curing spells, as the spell-like abilities are numerous enough to cover any sudden unforeseen circumstance, at least long enough for the party to regroup and think things over.
Weapons Lord 07-25-05, 04:47 PM	I played a healer who took a vow of poverty and she was the best healer I have ever seen, bar non. She didn't have the overall versatility of a cleric, but she could cast cure spells ALL day long. I kept her out of most combat except when absolutely necessary and even then, she used a long spear so she could attack at a distance. I wouldn't try beefing the class up at all. I think the healer class is exactly what it was meant to be.....a healer. As far as the unicorn goes, try talking to your DM to see what alternatives you might have instead of a unicorn companion.
BloodGod 07-25-05, 07:53 PM	I don't see how spontaneously casting cures makes a cleric a better healer than a healer. All a healer has, afterall, is pretty much cure spells. And I'd say that all the Cleanse abilities are far more profitable than the extra casting of heal. Let's compare though, shall we, what you named that makes a 20th level healing based cleric better than a 20th level Healer. +10 hp on every casting of mass heal versus casting true resurection once per week with no need for spell components. But, whatever. Hey, if you think it's underpowered, you can try to talk your DM into upping its abilities or something. If he does, great. But, I'd never let someone change the class other than possibly switching out another Cleanse ability in exchange for the unicorn. -BG
Manyfist 07-25-05, 11:24 PM	:cool: The Healer gets an freaking Unicorn, for free! Who says that a Cleric is good, they don't get a Unicorn for free! :cool: Maybe Healer should have one casting stats. I think the Cleric is should of been what the Healer is now. Evil Cleric, with an Black Unicorn...sweet.
Tweedledope 07-25-05, 11:59 PM	Healer's shine at early levels and with proper multiclassing, can become very strong casters. I played a nice little build that involved the following: Healer 8/Apostle of Peace 2/Celestial Mystic 10 I had the Saint template but bought it off as soon as i could. My caster level was pretty weak but I had awesome abilities. It was VERY rare that I was attacked on the battlefield (thanks to my constant effect sanctuary) and if I was most of the time I was uninjured or I would dodge the damage through my mock-evasion. The only downside was the fact that I was pretty much a one trick pony. But I was a damned Stallion when it came to healing and being the ultimate pacifist. -=Tweedledope=-
Emeramber 07-26-05, 12:28 AM	In my gaming group, we use the healer with one slight but telling adjustment. We treat them as list-based spontaneous casters, akin to the Warmage. This allows them to be tightly focused in healing, yet flexible within that focus. Without that modification, I'd have to say that the Cleric is, generally, the better "healer" in that they can memorize, for example, a Lesser Restoration, then abort it to healing, whereas the Healer would have to predict which spell to memorize. With the "fast-cast" option, the healer is able to draw on their training to use the spell from their list that they need at any given time. The Cleanse line of abilities becomes marginally less vital with the increased fexibility, but hardly obsolete. Each one is a spell that doesn't have to be used. Additionally, as supernatural abilities, they don't provoke AoOs (important before 7th level) they aren't subject to countering, and they don't have components, including verbal, so their useful in Silence. I have considered the unthinkable for my campaign world, which would be making them Arcane casters, but I haven't done that yet. In such a case, they would be students of healing magic and science, distinctly seperate from the miracles of the divine caster.