Bounty Hunter Prestige Class - Please Comment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bounty Hunter Prestige Class - Please Comment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mrcleaver
03-10-06, 12:43 AM This is a prestige class made by our DM. He's too much of a pansy to post it himself, so I'm posting it for him (with his permission). Please comment, our group is rather unique in its playing style so we just wanted to see what everyone else would think of a prestige class like this.

Bounty Hunter

HD: d8.

Table X-X: The Bounty Hunter
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Hunter’s Cruelty, Switch Out, Favored Enemy
2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Hunting Strike +1d6, Hunter’s Mark
3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Hunter’s Initiative
4 +4 +1 +4 +1 No Escape, Swift Tracker
5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Hamstring, Hunting Strike +2d6
6 +6 +2 +5 +2
7 +7 +2 +5 +2 For The Throat
8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Contempt, Hunting Strike +3d6
9 +9 +3 +6 +3
10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Last Option

Favored Enemy:

A bounty hunter continues to gain favored enemy bonuses and new favored enemies as if his bounty hunter levels were ranger levels.

Hunter’s Cruelty:

Whenever a bounty hunter makes an attack with a melee weapon, he may choose to deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal with no penalty on his attack roll. The bounty hunter may also choose to deal nonlethal damage with a ranged weapon at a –4 penalty on his attack roll.

Switch Out:

Once per round, a bounty hunter may sheathe a ranged weapon as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Hunting Strike:

If a bounty hunter of 2nd level or higher can catch an opponent when she is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Any time the bounty hunter’s target would be denied her Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the bounty hunter flanks his target, the bounty hunter’s attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. The bonus damage increases by 1d6 every three levels (+2d6 at 5th level, +3d6 at 8th level). Should a bounty hunter score a critical hit with a hunting strike, this extra damage is not multiplied.
It takes precision and accuracy to hit a vital spot, so ranged attacks can only count as hunting strikes if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, or when using Hunter’s Cruelty with a melee weapon, the bounty hunter can make a hunting strike that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a ranged weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage on a hunting strike.
A bounty hunter can only make a hunting strike on living creatures with discernible anatomies – undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to hunting strikes. The bounty hunter must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A bounty hunter cannot make a hunting strike while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.
If a bounty hunter gets a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as rogue levels), the extra damage stacks, though the bounty hunter does not add his sneak attack damage if he is dealing nonlethal damage with a weapon that normally deals lethal damage.

Hamstring:

If a bounty hunter of 5th level or higher hits with a hunting strike, he may choose to forgo +2d6 of his hunting strike damage to reduce his opponent’s land speed by half. This speed reduction ends when the target receives healing (a successful Heal check, any cure spell, or other magical healing) or after 24 hours, whichever comes first. A hamstring attack does not slow creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage or those that have either no legs at all or more than four legs. It takes two successful hamstring attacks to affect a quadruped.

Hunter’s Initiative:

A bounty hunter of 3rd level or higher gets a +4 bonus on his initiative checks. If the bounty hunter has Improved Initiative, the bonuses stack.

Hunter’s Mark:

If the bounty hunter hits with a Hunting Strike, he may choose to forgo +1d6 of his hunting strike damage deliver a wound which won’t stop bleeding. Each wound so inflicted does an additional 1 point of damage per round. Wounds from multiple uses of Hunter’s Mark result in cumulative blood loss – that is, two successful Hunter’s Marks do an additional 2 points of damage per round. Blood loss, whether from one such wound or several, stops when the victim receives one successful Heal check, any cure spell, or any other form of magical healing. Creatures not subject to sneak attacks are immune to this effect.
All attempts to track an individual receive a +4 circumstance bonus if the target was under the effects of Hunter’s Mark when they passed through the area. This bonus diminishes to +2 after 24 hours, and ceases after an additional 24 hours. Certain types of terrain may remove or modify this bonus, such as moving water.

No Escape:

A bounty hunter of 4th level or higher may make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who withdraws or takes a 5-foot step out of or through a square the bounty hunter threatens. The target is treated as flat-footed for purposes of this attack. An opponent knows in advance whether they will provoke an attack of opportunity from the bounty hunter in this manner.

Swift Tracker:

A bounty hunter of 4th level or higher can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

For the Throat:

A bounty hunter of 7th level or higher may expend his energies on a target in one ferocious burst. The bounty hunter may use this ability when making a full-attack action or charging, as long as all attacks in that round are made against one target. If the bounty hunter charges while using For the Throat, he may make a full-attack action at the end of his charge. All attacks made in the round that the bounty hunter uses For the Throat treat the target as being flat-footed, and if any of the bounty hunter’s attacks hit, the opponent must make a fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the bounty hunter’s class level + the bounty hunter’s favored enemy bonus against the target) or be stunned for one round. This ability is useable once per day.
[edit: Replace “If the bounty hunter charges…if any of the bounty hunter’s attacks hit,” with “Once per day, as a full round action the bounty hunter may make a single melee attack against an enemy. The target of this attack is treated as flat-footed, and if this attack hits, it automatically threatens a critical. Additionally,”]

Contempt:

A bounty hunter of 8th level or higher may add half of his highest favored enemy bonus as a favored enemy bonus against all other types of creatures, even if he already has a favored enemy bonus against them. If the bounty hunter’s highest favored enemy bonus is tied among multiple creature types, he may choose one and add half of its bonus to the others. (Modifications: …gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls against creatures not of the type of his highest favored enemy bonus…and/or if his favored enemy bonus against a creature type is lower than his highest favored enemy bonus.)/Total change.

Last Option:

At 10th level, a bounty hunter may take a full-round action to make a single attack against an opponent that is affected by hamstring and Hunter’s Mark. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the bounty hunter’s class level + the bounty hunter’s favored enemy bonus against the target), she dies instantly.
Nitrokitty
03-10-06, 02:04 AM Justicar, anyone?
mrcleaver
03-10-06, 02:31 AM Justicar, anyone?

Yes, a single ability that is fairly similar to a single ability of the Justicar certainly does make this class like the Justicar. Thank you for your insight.
Kapalen
03-10-06, 02:36 AM Yes, a single ability that is fairly similar to a single ability of the Justicar certainly does make this class like the Justicar. Thank you for your insight.
You're my hero. BAck on topic, it's pretty cool,definetly not as stupid as the justicar. The whole mpounce thing plus making them stunned seems kinda over the top though, plus it auto threatens.
JulesCARV
03-10-06, 03:22 AM Looks good. What are the prerequisites?
Ciradin
03-10-06, 09:01 AM Cool class. I like the hamstring and huter's mark abilities. Any alignment restrictions? Plus an ability that stuns a target instead of killing it would be useful because bounty hunters usually are tasked to bring back targets alive.
Ralvuimego
03-10-06, 10:24 AM I hate to criticize but....

The Bloodhound from the Complete Adventurer is almost exactly like this.
Maraxus
03-10-06, 11:22 AM Looks nice. But hard to judge.

Hunting Strike: I would rename it back to sneak attack. They are to similar to use two names.

Hamstring / Hunter’s Mark: You forgot the DC for the healing check. Should be something easy and fix (around 10 to 15)

Hunter’s Mark 2: Does it allow two uses with one shot (forgo 2d6 for 2 points each turn), or do I need to shoot twice to use it twice?

No Escape: Nice abilitiy. You should also unclude a feat in your game (Lotus rane called it "Acrobat Slayer" that forbits tumbling to avoid AoO through your threatened squares.

Requirements: Yes, they are missing. I would suggest Quick draw among them, because of the "Swich out" ability. And Gather Information and Wilderniss Lore skilled (but note that no class has both these skills as class skills, so requirering them both high forces the players to multiclass) And Maybe the track-feat and a bit of BAB.

Skills: I think 4+Int are enough, but the choise should be good. Sense/Stealth, Wildernis lore and gather info should be must-haves. Other social skills (diplomacy, intimidate, appraise) should fit nice, as well as other wildernis-skills (jump, climb, swim). Knowledge (lokal), maybe.

Balancing: Personally, I think, it's a bit to much for a full-BAB class. Even if we don't compare it to the fighter but to the ranger. THe ranger get's about 1 nice ability per level (later less abilities but some spells to keep the power-progression.
The bounty Hunter get's:

Hunter’s Cruelty: A good ability, not full 1 but 0.8 at least.
Switch Out: Only 0.5, it's not that much better then dropping
Favored Enemy: One per 5 levels, this brings a total 2
Hunting Strike: One per d6, here we add 3
Hunter’s Mark: A really good ability 1 feat-point
Hunter’s Initiative: Not that good but still a low 1
No Escape: Funny ability, but with the options of tumbe and spring attack left, only 0.8
Swift Tracker: It's not totally a feat, but I'm comparing with the ranger, instead of the fighter, so: 1
Hamstring: This can get really evil at some times, so: 1, again
For The Throat: Because of the 1/day limitation, this can go as 0.5
Contempt: That's massive! Much better then one single feat or ranger special ability: 2
Last Option: The save DC is nice. as well as the requirement, that you need to have caught the target with at least one shot before, overall, 0.8

So we have a total of 15.4, where it should be about 10-11. Depending on the requirements, maybe it could be 12 or 13, but in any case, it would be strong. What to take out, however, I don't know. Maybe take out the Initiative bonus and modify Contempt. Or, go drastical and make the BAB medium (in that case, he could even get a little something more - but not much).
Or you just ignore that point. I'm usually overcautious, when it comes to balancing. :)

PS: @Ralvuimego: When I first saw the Bloodhound, I also thought: "Great, a Bounty hunter PrC, that was really missing." But then I looked at it's abilities and said: Oh, no, terrible. This is much to focussed on the marking-mechanic, to be useful for the average PC. I like this one much better. (One point, where playability does not equal balancing)
Invarus
03-11-06, 05:07 AM Well, the bastard managed to sidestep me and post this thing online anyway. Nothing to be done about it now. Alright folks, what you're seeing right now is a beta shell for a prestige class. The more astute of you have noticed that it doesn't have prerequisites or a skill list, and a number of its abilities are not finalized.

First of all though, I want to find out precisely how this thing is like the Bloodhound, except in that it can track quickly (just like Rangers, I actually didn't even look at the Bloodhound for that ability), and that it's thematically a type of Bounty Hunter.

It has always been my opinion that the official Prestige Classes for this line of work (Justicar, Vigilante, Bloodhound, etc.) tend to be too weak at actually bringing people in once you've tracked them down, or too specialized on only the marked target to be worth taking in any more general adventures. I needed to create a more combat-worthy Prestige Class to ensure that people would seriously consider it for my adventure (which is combat heavy).

Now for the concerns.

Hunting Strike is called what it is because it has seperate functionality from sneak attack with 3 of the Bounty Hunter's abilities, so it's easier to reference this way (in addition to doing something different. Hell, even the Invisible Blade has a renamed sneak attack, albeit a really lazy one).

Hamstring and Hunter's Mark should be a heal check DC 15, in relation to the "treat an injury" use of heal. Amusingly enough, even I'm not too sure on the "Multiple applications of Hunter's Mark" issue. Hunter's Mark, for those of you with 3.0 references, is a copy of Arterial Strike from the Song and Silence (and Hamstring is a copy of Hamstring), and as a matter of fact, that's a question that I had about Arterial Strike. For my purposes, you can only use Hunter's Mark once per successful hit.

This rating system of the abilities seems mostly correct to me, though I'll dispute a few. Arterial Strike (re: Hunter's Mark) always struck me as somewhat weak, as it's incredibly easy to remove all applications of it on a target with just a single action (that might even just be an incidental part of healing the victim's lowered hp), and if the Marks are removed before four rounds are up, it's at most no better than the sneak attack damage you sacrificed, on average, so I'm not convinced it deserves a 1.
Your low rating for No Escape actually amuses me, since the very person who posted this prestige class of mine voiced the concern that he thought it was too powerful. If he wants, he can explain the reasoning behind that for himself. A potential fix we discussed was only having No Escape activate if the person has spent 1 full round in reach of the Bounty Hunter.

I'd just like to say that Contempt is the "hot topic of debate" for the Bounty Hunter, since a number of people are bothered by either or both its power and its thematic explanation, as well as its clunkiness. I'm considering a total overhaul of what it does to try and fix all of these issues.

Now one last thing on the topic of balance. It has always been my point of view that prestige classes should very clearly outdo regular classes, so I'm perfectly happy that this thing can be considered more powerful than a Ranger (effing spell progression always messes this up though...stupid overpowered Entangle). However, I am -also- perfectly willing to admit that this class may not be balanced, especially since I have doubts about a few of the abilities.

Alright, now, all the filling in stuff. Its prerequisites are nothing you should worry about, as it's actually supposed to be takeable by one of my players the moment he attains another level. This means that the prerequisites are not determined by reason so much as by necessity. If you want to use this elsewhere, it's definitely supposed to require track, and should probably have something like:
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: [close to max ranks in] things like survival, search, spot, and listen.
Special: possibly sneak attack, but no more than +2d6.

The class skills for it will be all ranger skills except concentration and knowledge (dungeoneering), plus gather information, and possibly intimidate and knowledge (local).

Keep in mind, this Bounty Hunter is not built around the whole social angle of tracking people. The idea behind this Prestige Class is that of being a strong combatant.

I also have another Prestige Class shell, this one with a more definite set of abilities (still lacking prerequisites and skills), which Cleaver may or may not feel like posting at some point (I'm really too apathetic to post it myself). It's called the True Marksman, if any of you want to spend time checking to see if he's posted it at some point in the future.
Kestralwing
03-11-06, 08:52 AM it is a very neat class, but why dont you exchange switch out for a free quick draw? i was under the impression that you could draw and stow weapons as a free action. if it wasnt dont limit switchout to range weapons and make quik draw a prerequisite.

limit the number of times he can use no escape, like a number of times equal to his dexterity or wisdom modifier per day.
Ciradin
03-11-06, 01:48 PM NO ONE TOLD ME IF THERE WHERE ALIGNMENT RESTRICTIONS!!! Plz tell me if there are any!
Invarus
03-11-06, 06:53 PM Quick Draw lets you draw a weapon as a free action, but sheathing one is still a move-equivalent action that provokes attacks of opportunity. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with making Quick Draw a prerequisite for this class, it's just that in my adventure it's not going to be, because of reasons explained above.

If you want, you can give this class an alignment restriction, but it wasn't designed to have one.
Maraxus
03-11-06, 07:34 PM There are so much possibilities, what characters (backround-technically) would want to become a bounty hounter, any alignment restriction would be bad. :)

Ciradin: Your shift key is broken.

Oh and...
Now one last thing on the topic of balance. It has always been my point of view that prestige classes should very clearly outdo regular classes, so I'm perfectly happy that this thing can be considered more powerful than a Ranger...
Of cause. That's why they are called advanced classes ... No, wait, they aren't.
But I agree, it's very prestige-rich to be better. Prestige classes should be better. Just not better per level.
Ciradin
03-12-06, 07:47 AM Har har har. Thanks for telling me avout the alignment restrictions though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mrcleaver 03-10-06, 12:43 AM	This is a prestige class made by our DM. He's too much of a pansy to post it himself, so I'm posting it for him (with his permission). Please comment, our group is rather unique in its playing style so we just wanted to see what everyone else would think of a prestige class like this. Bounty Hunter HD: d8. Table X-X: The Bounty Hunter Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Hunter’s Cruelty, Switch Out, Favored Enemy 2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Hunting Strike +1d6, Hunter’s Mark 3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Hunter’s Initiative 4 +4 +1 +4 +1 No Escape, Swift Tracker 5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Hamstring, Hunting Strike +2d6 6 +6 +2 +5 +2 7 +7 +2 +5 +2 For The Throat 8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Contempt, Hunting Strike +3d6 9 +9 +3 +6 +3 10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Last Option Favored Enemy: A bounty hunter continues to gain favored enemy bonuses and new favored enemies as if his bounty hunter levels were ranger levels. Hunter’s Cruelty: Whenever a bounty hunter makes an attack with a melee weapon, he may choose to deal nonlethal damage instead of lethal with no penalty on his attack roll. The bounty hunter may also choose to deal nonlethal damage with a ranged weapon at a –4 penalty on his attack roll. Switch Out: Once per round, a bounty hunter may sheathe a ranged weapon as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Hunting Strike: If a bounty hunter of 2nd level or higher can catch an opponent when she is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Any time the bounty hunter’s target would be denied her Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the bounty hunter flanks his target, the bounty hunter’s attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. The bonus damage increases by 1d6 every three levels (+2d6 at 5th level, +3d6 at 8th level). Should a bounty hunter score a critical hit with a hunting strike, this extra damage is not multiplied. It takes precision and accuracy to hit a vital spot, so ranged attacks can only count as hunting strikes if the target is within 30 feet. With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, or when using Hunter’s Cruelty with a melee weapon, the bounty hunter can make a hunting strike that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. He cannot use a ranged weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage on a hunting strike. A bounty hunter can only make a hunting strike on living creatures with discernible anatomies – undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to hunting strikes. The bounty hunter must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A bounty hunter cannot make a hunting strike while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. If a bounty hunter gets a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as rogue levels), the extra damage stacks, though the bounty hunter does not add his sneak attack damage if he is dealing nonlethal damage with a weapon that normally deals lethal damage. Hamstring: If a bounty hunter of 5th level or higher hits with a hunting strike, he may choose to forgo +2d6 of his hunting strike damage to reduce his opponent’s land speed by half. This speed reduction ends when the target receives healing (a successful Heal check, any cure spell, or other magical healing) or after 24 hours, whichever comes first. A hamstring attack does not slow creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage or those that have either no legs at all or more than four legs. It takes two successful hamstring attacks to affect a quadruped. Hunter’s Initiative: A bounty hunter of 3rd level or higher gets a +4 bonus on his initiative checks. If the bounty hunter has Improved Initiative, the bonuses stack. Hunter’s Mark: If the bounty hunter hits with a Hunting Strike, he may choose to forgo +1d6 of his hunting strike damage deliver a wound which won’t stop bleeding. Each wound so inflicted does an additional 1 point of damage per round. Wounds from multiple uses of Hunter’s Mark result in cumulative blood loss – that is, two successful Hunter’s Marks do an additional 2 points of damage per round. Blood loss, whether from one such wound or several, stops when the victim receives one successful Heal check, any cure spell, or any other form of magical healing. Creatures not subject to sneak attacks are immune to this effect. All attempts to track an individual receive a +4 circumstance bonus if the target was under the effects of Hunter’s Mark when they passed through the area. This bonus diminishes to +2 after 24 hours, and ceases after an additional 24 hours. Certain types of terrain may remove or modify this bonus, such as moving water. No Escape: A bounty hunter of 4th level or higher may make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who withdraws or takes a 5-foot step out of or through a square the bounty hunter threatens. The target is treated as flat-footed for purposes of this attack. An opponent knows in advance whether they will provoke an attack of opportunity from the bounty hunter in this manner. Swift Tracker: A bounty hunter of 4th level or higher can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal –5 penalty. He takes only a –10 penalty (instead of the normal –20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking. For the Throat: A bounty hunter of 7th level or higher may expend his energies on a target in one ferocious burst. The bounty hunter may use this ability when making a full-attack action or charging, as long as all attacks in that round are made against one target. If the bounty hunter charges while using For the Throat, he may make a full-attack action at the end of his charge. All attacks made in the round that the bounty hunter uses For the Throat treat the target as being flat-footed, and if any of the bounty hunter’s attacks hit, the opponent must make a fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the bounty hunter’s class level + the bounty hunter’s favored enemy bonus against the target) or be stunned for one round. This ability is useable once per day. [edit: Replace “If the bounty hunter charges…if any of the bounty hunter’s attacks hit,” with “Once per day, as a full round action the bounty hunter may make a single melee attack against an enemy. The target of this attack is treated as flat-footed, and if this attack hits, it automatically threatens a critical. Additionally,”] Contempt: A bounty hunter of 8th level or higher may add half of his highest favored enemy bonus as a favored enemy bonus against all other types of creatures, even if he already has a favored enemy bonus against them. If the bounty hunter’s highest favored enemy bonus is tied among multiple creature types, he may choose one and add half of its bonus to the others. (Modifications: …gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls against creatures not of the type of his highest favored enemy bonus…and/or if his favored enemy bonus against a creature type is lower than his highest favored enemy bonus.)/Total change. Last Option: At 10th level, a bounty hunter may take a full-round action to make a single attack against an opponent that is affected by hamstring and Hunter’s Mark. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the bounty hunter’s class level + the bounty hunter’s favored enemy bonus against the target), she dies instantly.
Nitrokitty 03-10-06, 02:04 AM	Justicar, anyone?
mrcleaver 03-10-06, 02:31 AM	Justicar, anyone? Yes, a single ability that is fairly similar to a single ability of the Justicar certainly does make this class like the Justicar. Thank you for your insight.
Kapalen 03-10-06, 02:36 AM	Yes, a single ability that is fairly similar to a single ability of the Justicar certainly does make this class like the Justicar. Thank you for your insight. You're my hero. BAck on topic, it's pretty cool,definetly not as stupid as the justicar. The whole mpounce thing plus making them stunned seems kinda over the top though, plus it auto threatens.
JulesCARV 03-10-06, 03:22 AM	Looks good. What are the prerequisites?
Ciradin 03-10-06, 09:01 AM	Cool class. I like the hamstring and huter's mark abilities. Any alignment restrictions? Plus an ability that stuns a target instead of killing it would be useful because bounty hunters usually are tasked to bring back targets alive.
Ralvuimego 03-10-06, 10:24 AM	I hate to criticize but.... The Bloodhound from the Complete Adventurer is almost exactly like this.
Maraxus 03-10-06, 11:22 AM	Looks nice. But hard to judge. Hunting Strike: I would rename it back to sneak attack. They are to similar to use two names. Hamstring / Hunter’s Mark: You forgot the DC for the healing check. Should be something easy and fix (around 10 to 15) Hunter’s Mark 2: Does it allow two uses with one shot (forgo 2d6 for 2 points each turn), or do I need to shoot twice to use it twice? No Escape: Nice abilitiy. You should also unclude a feat in your game (Lotus rane called it "Acrobat Slayer" that forbits tumbling to avoid AoO through your threatened squares. Requirements: Yes, they are missing. I would suggest Quick draw among them, because of the "Swich out" ability. And Gather Information and Wilderniss Lore skilled (but note that no class has both these skills as class skills, so requirering them both high forces the players to multiclass) And Maybe the track-feat and a bit of BAB. Skills: I think 4+Int are enough, but the choise should be good. Sense/Stealth, Wildernis lore and gather info should be must-haves. Other social skills (diplomacy, intimidate, appraise) should fit nice, as well as other wildernis-skills (jump, climb, swim). Knowledge (lokal), maybe. Balancing: Personally, I think, it's a bit to much for a full-BAB class. Even if we don't compare it to the fighter but to the ranger. THe ranger get's about 1 nice ability per level (later less abilities but some spells to keep the power-progression. The bounty Hunter get's: Hunter’s Cruelty: A good ability, not full 1 but 0.8 at least. Switch Out: Only 0.5, it's not that much better then dropping Favored Enemy: One per 5 levels, this brings a total 2 Hunting Strike: One per d6, here we add 3 Hunter’s Mark: A really good ability 1 feat-point Hunter’s Initiative: Not that good but still a low 1 No Escape: Funny ability, but with the options of tumbe and spring attack left, only 0.8 Swift Tracker: It's not totally a feat, but I'm comparing with the ranger, instead of the fighter, so: 1 Hamstring: This can get really evil at some times, so: 1, again For The Throat: Because of the 1/day limitation, this can go as 0.5 Contempt: That's massive! Much better then one single feat or ranger special ability: 2 Last Option: The save DC is nice. as well as the requirement, that you need to have caught the target with at least one shot before, overall, 0.8 So we have a total of 15.4, where it should be about 10-11. Depending on the requirements, maybe it could be 12 or 13, but in any case, it would be strong. What to take out, however, I don't know. Maybe take out the Initiative bonus and modify Contempt. Or, go drastical and make the BAB medium (in that case, he could even get a little something more - but not much). Or you just ignore that point. I'm usually overcautious, when it comes to balancing. :) PS: @Ralvuimego: When I first saw the Bloodhound, I also thought: "Great, a Bounty hunter PrC, that was really missing." But then I looked at it's abilities and said: Oh, no, terrible. This is much to focussed on the marking-mechanic, to be useful for the average PC. I like this one much better. (One point, where playability does not equal balancing)
Invarus 03-11-06, 05:07 AM	Well, the bastard managed to sidestep me and post this thing online anyway. Nothing to be done about it now. Alright folks, what you're seeing right now is a beta shell for a prestige class. The more astute of you have noticed that it doesn't have prerequisites or a skill list, and a number of its abilities are not finalized. First of all though, I want to find out precisely how this thing is like the Bloodhound, except in that it can track quickly (just like Rangers, I actually didn't even look at the Bloodhound for that ability), and that it's thematically a type of Bounty Hunter. It has always been my opinion that the official Prestige Classes for this line of work (Justicar, Vigilante, Bloodhound, etc.) tend to be too weak at actually bringing people in once you've tracked them down, or too specialized on only the marked target to be worth taking in any more general adventures. I needed to create a more combat-worthy Prestige Class to ensure that people would seriously consider it for my adventure (which is combat heavy). Now for the concerns. Hunting Strike is called what it is because it has seperate functionality from sneak attack with 3 of the Bounty Hunter's abilities, so it's easier to reference this way (in addition to doing something different. Hell, even the Invisible Blade has a renamed sneak attack, albeit a really lazy one). Hamstring and Hunter's Mark should be a heal check DC 15, in relation to the "treat an injury" use of heal. Amusingly enough, even I'm not too sure on the "Multiple applications of Hunter's Mark" issue. Hunter's Mark, for those of you with 3.0 references, is a copy of Arterial Strike from the Song and Silence (and Hamstring is a copy of Hamstring), and as a matter of fact, that's a question that I had about Arterial Strike. For my purposes, you can only use Hunter's Mark once per successful hit. This rating system of the abilities seems mostly correct to me, though I'll dispute a few. Arterial Strike (re: Hunter's Mark) always struck me as somewhat weak, as it's incredibly easy to remove all applications of it on a target with just a single action (that might even just be an incidental part of healing the victim's lowered hp), and if the Marks are removed before four rounds are up, it's at most no better than the sneak attack damage you sacrificed, on average, so I'm not convinced it deserves a 1. Your low rating for No Escape actually amuses me, since the very person who posted this prestige class of mine voiced the concern that he thought it was too powerful. If he wants, he can explain the reasoning behind that for himself. A potential fix we discussed was only having No Escape activate if the person has spent 1 full round in reach of the Bounty Hunter. I'd just like to say that Contempt is the "hot topic of debate" for the Bounty Hunter, since a number of people are bothered by either or both its power and its thematic explanation, as well as its clunkiness. I'm considering a total overhaul of what it does to try and fix all of these issues. Now one last thing on the topic of balance. It has always been my point of view that prestige classes should very clearly outdo regular classes, so I'm perfectly happy that this thing can be considered more powerful than a Ranger (effing spell progression always messes this up though...stupid overpowered Entangle). However, I am -also- perfectly willing to admit that this class may not be balanced, especially since I have doubts about a few of the abilities. Alright, now, all the filling in stuff. Its prerequisites are nothing you should worry about, as it's actually supposed to be takeable by one of my players the moment he attains another level. This means that the prerequisites are not determined by reason so much as by necessity. If you want to use this elsewhere, it's definitely supposed to require track, and should probably have something like: Base Attack Bonus: +5 Skills: [close to max ranks in] things like survival, search, spot, and listen. Special: possibly sneak attack, but no more than +2d6. The class skills for it will be all ranger skills except concentration and knowledge (dungeoneering), plus gather information, and possibly intimidate and knowledge (local). Keep in mind, this Bounty Hunter is not built around the whole social angle of tracking people. The idea behind this Prestige Class is that of being a strong combatant. I also have another Prestige Class shell, this one with a more definite set of abilities (still lacking prerequisites and skills), which Cleaver may or may not feel like posting at some point (I'm really too apathetic to post it myself). It's called the True Marksman, if any of you want to spend time checking to see if he's posted it at some point in the future.
Kestralwing 03-11-06, 08:52 AM	it is a very neat class, but why dont you exchange switch out for a free quick draw? i was under the impression that you could draw and stow weapons as a free action. if it wasnt dont limit switchout to range weapons and make quik draw a prerequisite. limit the number of times he can use no escape, like a number of times equal to his dexterity or wisdom modifier per day.
Ciradin 03-11-06, 01:48 PM	NO ONE TOLD ME IF THERE WHERE ALIGNMENT RESTRICTIONS!!! Plz tell me if there are any!
Invarus 03-11-06, 06:53 PM	Quick Draw lets you draw a weapon as a free action, but sheathing one is still a move-equivalent action that provokes attacks of opportunity. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with making Quick Draw a prerequisite for this class, it's just that in my adventure it's not going to be, because of reasons explained above. If you want, you can give this class an alignment restriction, but it wasn't designed to have one.
Maraxus 03-11-06, 07:34 PM	There are so much possibilities, what characters (backround-technically) would want to become a bounty hounter, any alignment restriction would be bad. :) Ciradin: Your shift key is broken. Oh and... Now one last thing on the topic of balance. It has always been my point of view that prestige classes should very clearly outdo regular classes, so I'm perfectly happy that this thing can be considered more powerful than a Ranger... Of cause. That's why they are called advanced classes ... No, wait, they aren't. But I agree, it's very prestige-rich to be better. Prestige classes should be better. Just not better per level.
Ciradin 03-12-06, 07:47 AM	Har har har. Thanks for telling me avout the alignment restrictions though.