Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Linkrulesx10 03-20-06, 02:46 AM	Bow Mage V.2.2 GAME RULE INFORMATION Bowmages have the following game statistics. Abilities: Dexterity provides extra protection for the bowmage. Charisma determines how powerful a spell a bowmage can cast, how many spells she can cast, and how hard those spells are to resist. A good constitution score gives a bowmage extra hit points. Strength is important for a bowmage to get extra damage for when they use a composite bow. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d6. Class Skills The Bowmage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise(Cha), Escap Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills and skill descriptions. (Player's Handbook). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int mod) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1 0 0 2 0 Point blank Shot, Attune Bow, Magic Arrow 2 1 0 3 0 Evasion, Shoot and Cast, Forcefull Arrow 3 2 1 3 1 Weapon Focus Bow 4 3 1 4 1 Uncanny Dodge 5 3 1 4 1 Sudden Silent 6 4 2 5 2 7 5 2 5 2 8 6 2 6 2 Lasting Magic Arrow (1min/level) 9 6 3 6 3 10 7 3 7 3 Greater Weapon Focus Bow 11 8 3 7 3 12 9 4 8 4 Lasting Magic Arrow (1 hour/level) 13 9 4 8 4 14 10 4 9 4 15 11 5 9 5 16 12 5 10 5 17 12 5 10 5 18 13 6 11 6 Lasting Magic Arrow (2 hours/level) 19 14 6 11 6 20 15 6 12 6 Greater Sudden Silent Weapon and Armor Profiency: Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A bowmage is proficient will all forms of bows, including exotic bows (not including any type of crossbow) and with light armour. Because a Bowmage's spell never contain somatic componets, a Bowmage does not incure the normal arcane spell failure chance. Attune Bow: A Bow Mage has a magical resonance set up between him and his bow. This resonance requires 1 week of meditation to set up. The bow must be masterwork to have a resonance set up in it for it to work. A bow mage will always start of as a masterwork short bow if it is not within his budget to afford one. A bow mage can only be attuned to one bow at a time. A Bow Mage needs his Attuned Bow to cast his spells. Forcefull Arrow A Bow Mage becomes so in tune with her bow that she is able to use her force of personality to pull back the bow beyond it's normal capabilities. This effectively allows her to add her Charisma Modifyer to damage, but to a maximum of half her Bow Mage level's rounded down. Shoot and Cast: As a full-round action, a bowmage can make a ranged attack and cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action. However, at 2nd level the bowmage may only cast 1st level spells in this manner. At 5th level, 2nd level spells can be cast, at 8th level 3rd level spells, and at 11th level 4th level spells can be involved in Shoot and Cast. At 14th level, 5th level spells are permissable, and at 17th level, so are 6th level spells. This can only be done a maximum times per day equal to their charisma modifyer + 1/4 their Bow Mage levels. Greater Sudden Silent: A Bow make learns the art of stealth and learns how to be particularly quite while casting spells. You may replicate the effect of the silent metamagic without any change in the spells level a number of times per day equal to the users Charisma modifier. Spells: A Bow Mage has spell list but it is yet to be developed, so anything that fits flavor wise is in at the moment. They cast spells as a bard with spells per day and save DC’s based off charisma. They have their own spell list and spell lists though although the spell list is yet to be decided upon. Their Attuned Bow replaces all somatic and material components of less then 1 gp but add a focus component: Their Attuned Bow Magic Arrow When a Bow mage casts an offensive spell they are not able to select targets or aim a ray or touch attack. Instead they must cast the spell into an arrow they posses and the spell unleashes itself when that arrow hits a target. An Arrow can keep a 'charge' for one round a level before the arrow loses it's magic. Imbueing an arrow requires the same amount of time as casting the spell normally. At level 8 the arrow can hold its 'charge' for 1/min level, at level 12 the 'charge' can last for 1/hour level and at level 18 it lasts for 2/hours level. The arrow's are subject to a dispell magic, if the spell itself has a duration, it doesn't start till the arrow hits. You cannot regain spell slots for spells which are still charged in arrows at the time of regaing them. Spell Known: Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 4 2 - - - - - 2 5 3 - - - - - 3 6 4 - - - - - 4 6 4 2 - - - - 5 6 4 3 - - - - 6 6 5 4 - - - - 7 6 5 4 2 - - - 8 6 5 4 3 - - - 9 6 5 5 4 - - - 10 6 6 5 4 2 - - 11 6 6 5 4 3 - - 12 6 6 6 5 4 - - 13 6 6 6 5 4 2 - 14 6 6 6 5 4 3 - 15 6 6 6 6 5 4 - 16 6 6 6 6 5 4 2 17 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 18 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 19 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 20 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 New Feats Pierce Fortification [General] Prerequisites: 5d8 Ranged Precision (Not Sneak attack) Benefit: As a standard action you can size up your opponents fortification and find a weakspot, your next attack ignores the fortification of that target, this only lasts for one round then you need to refocus yourself (Which is a standard action). Spell List From PhB Cantrips: Not important, do them later Level 1: True Stirke, Shield, Sleep, Burning Hands, Disguise Self, Ray of Enfeblement, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon, Pass Without Trace and Reduce Person Level 2: Resist Energy, Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, Touch of Idiocy, Blur, Invisibility, Blindness/Deafness, Ghoul Touch, Cat's Grace, Spider Climb and Align Weapon. Level 3: Dispell Magic, Arcane sight, Hold Person, Fireball, Displacement, Ray of Exhaustion, Flame Arrow, Fly, Haste, Keen Edge, Magic Weapon Gr. and Searing Light Level 4: Dimension Door, Detect Scrying, Confusion, Invisibility Gr., Enervation, Freedom of Movement and Poison Level 5: Hold Monster, Cone of Cold, Disrupting Weapon, True Seeing, Seeming, Mislead and Break Enchantment Level 6: Dispell Magic Gr., Disintergrate, Undeath to Death, Flesh to Stone, Cat's Grace mass and Finger of death. From SpC New Spells: Bow Mage V.2 GAME RULE INFORMATION Bowmages have the following game statistics. Abilities: Dexterity provides extra protection for the bowmage. Charisma determines how powerful a spell a bowmage can cast, how many spells she can cast, and how hard those spells are to resist. A good constitution score gives a bowmage extra hit points. Strength is important for a bowmage to get extra damage for when they use a composite bow. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d6. Class Skills The Bowmage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise(Cha), Escap Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills and skill descriptions. (Player's Handbook). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int mod) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1 0 0 2 0 Ranged Accuracy + 1d8, Point blank Shot, Attune Bow, Magic Arrow 2 1 0 3 0 Evasion, Shoot and Cast, 3 2 1 3 1 Ranged Accuracy +2d8, Weapon Focus Bow 4 3 1 4 1 Uncanny Dodge 5 3 1 4 1 Ranged Accuracy +3d8, Sudden Silent 6 4 2 5 2 Weapon Specialization Bow 7 5 2 5 2 Ranged Accuracy +4d8 8 6 2 6 2 Lasting Magic Arrow (1min/level) 9 6 3 6 3 Ranged Accuracy +5d8 10 7 3 7 3 Greater Weapon Focus Bow 11 8 3 7 3 Ranged Accuracy +6d8 12 9 4 8 4 Lasting Magic Arrow (1 hour/level) 13 9 4 8 4 Ranged Accuracy +7d8 14 10 4 9 4 Greater Weapon Specialization 15 11 5 9 5 Ranged Accuracy +8d8 16 12 5 10 5 Extended Precision 17 12 5 10 5 Ranged Accuracy +9d8 18 13 6 11 6 Lasting Magic Arrow (3 hours/level) 19 14 6 11 6 Ranged Accuracy +10d8 20 15 6 12 6 Greater Sudden Silent Weapon and Armor Profiency: Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A bowmage is proficient will all forms of bows, including exotic bows (not including any type of crossbow) and with light armour. Because a Bowmage's spell never contain somatic componets, a Bowmage does not incure the normal arcane spell failure chance. Attune Bow: A Bow Mage has a magical resonance set up between him and his bow. This resonance requires 1 week of meditation to set up. The bow must be masterwork to have a resonance set up in it for it to work. A bow mage will always start of as a masterwork short bow if it is not within his budget to afford one. A bow mage can only be attuned to one bow at a time. A Bow Mage needs his Attuned Bow to cast his spells. Ranged Accuracy: As a standard action a Bow Mage is able to make an accurate shot that deals an extra 1d8 damage. This is precision based damage and effectively counts as sneak attack for all purpose’s except the target doesn’t have to be flat footed or flanked. A Bow Mage can only apply this damage to the bow he is attuned to. A d8 of Ranged Accuracy damage effectively counts towards a d6 of Sneak Attack for qualifying for feats and PrC. Any creature immune to sneak attacks are immune to damage from Ranged Accuracy. When using manyshot you are only able to apply the Ranged Accuracy to the initial arrow and you lose 4 die of damage from the Ranged Accuracy. (Just as like you have a -4 attack roles.) When a Bow Mage gets multiple attacks they are able to apply Ranged Accuracy to multiple attacks but most follow these rules: To work out how many dice of damage you have to split up, you get your base die of bonus damage and multiply it by 1.5. You then must split up your Ranged Accuracy damage dice between at least two attacks. Each can’t have any more then your normal damage die – 2. One target cannot be effected by ranged precision more then once per round. Shoot and Cast: As a full-round action, a bowmage can make a ranged attack and cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action. However, at 2nd level the bowmage may only cast 1st level spells in this manner. At 5th level, 2nd level spells can be cast, at 8th level 3rd level spells, and at 11th level 4th level spells can be involved in Shoot and Cast. At 14th level, 5th level spells are permissable, and at 17th level, so are 6th level spells. Greater Sudden Silent: A Bow make learns the art of stealth and learns how to be particularly quite while casting spells. You may replicate the effect of the silent metamagic without any change in the spells level a number of times per day equal to the users Charisma modifier. Longer Precision: A Bow mage can make Ranged Accuracy attacks from 30 feet more distance then normal range. Spells: A Bow Mage has spell list but it is yet to be developed, so anything that fits flavor wise is in at the moment. They cast spells as a bard with spells per day and save DC’s based off charisma. They have their own spell list and spell lists though although the spell list is yet to be decided upon. Their Attuned Bow replaces all somatic and material components of less then 1 gp but add a focus component: Their Attuned Bow Modifications to Spells: Arrow storm becomes a third level spell. Magic Arrow When a Bow mage casts an offensive spell they are not able to select targets or aim a ray or touch attack. Instead they must cast the spell into an arrow they posses and the spell unleashes itself when that arrow hits a target. An Arrow can keep a 'charge' for one round a level before the arrow loses it's magic. Imbueing an arrow requires the same amount of time as casting the spell normally. At level 8 the arrow can hold its 'charge' for 1/min level, at level 12 the 'charge' can last for 1/hour level and at level 18 it lasts for 3/hours level. The arrow's are subject to a dispell magic, if the spell itself has a duration, it doesn't start till the arrow hits. Spell Known: Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 4 2 - - - - - 2 5 3 - - - - - 3 6 4 - - - - - 4 6 4 2 - - - - 5 6 4 3 - - - - 6 6 5 4 - - - - 7 6 5 4 2 - - - 8 6 5 4 3 - - - 9 6 5 5 4 - - - 10 6 6 5 4 2 - - 11 6 6 5 4 3 - - 12 6 6 6 5 4 - - 13 6 6 6 5 4 2 - 14 6 6 6 5 4 3 - 15 6 6 6 6 5 4 - 16 6 6 6 6 5 4 2 17 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 18 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 19 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 20 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 New Feats Pierce Fortification [General] Prerequisites: 5d8 Ranged Precision (Not Sneak attack) Benefit: As a standard action you can size up your opponents fortification and find a weakspot, your next attack ignores the fortification of that target, this only lasts for one round then you need to refocus yourself (Which is a standard action). Spell List From PhB Cantrips: Not important, do them later Level 1: True Stirke, Shield, Sleep, Burning Hands, Disguise Self, Ray of Enfeblement, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon, Pass Without Trace and Reduce Person Level 2: Resist Energy, Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, Touch of Idiocy, Blur, Invisibility, Blindness/Deafness, Ghoul Touch, Cat's Grace, Spider Climb and Align Weapon. Level 3: Dispell Magic, Arcane sight, Hold Person, Fireball, Displacement, Ray of Exhaustion, Flame Arrow, Fly, Haste, Keen Edge, Magic Weapon Gr. and Searing Light Level 4: Dimension Door, Detect Scrying, Confusion, Invisibility Gr., Enervation, Freedom of Movement and Poison Level 5: Hold Monster, Cone of Cold, Disrupting Weapon, True Seeing, Seeming, Mislead and Break Enchantment Level 6: Dispell Magic Gr., Disintergrate, Undeath to Death, Eyebite, Flesh to Stone, Cat's Grace mass and Finger of death. From SpC New Spells: Creature Strike Divination Level: Bow Mage 1 Components: V, F Casting Time: 1 Swift Action Range: Personal Target: you Duration: 1 Round For one round you are able to Ranged Accuracy either Undead, Constructs ot Plants.
Rudiger_Smith 03-20-06, 03:38 AM	Good class, similar in some respects to my duelist. Some of the grammar is a bit confusing but I like it. Good job.
Linkrulesx10 03-20-06, 03:59 AM	NO NO NO NO... you got it all wrong, your Duelist is like my Bow Mage, Get it right :P Ok well now I am going to make add the hitdie and skills and stuff...
Elemental_Master 03-20-06, 06:46 AM	Let me guess what I will do when I meet one of these bow mages? Sunder the bow so that there left completely defenseless! (exept for spells) Bow Mage multiclass with fighter for feats and Arcane Archer for Cheap Magical bonuses!
Hennet 03-20-06, 09:34 AM	Well there are some spelling mistakes but other than that it seems good. I suppose the class is all good, but without play testing I really have no idea. Personally I would not play a class like that (without seeing the spell list yet), just not my style, but good work.
Shorty_McShort 03-21-06, 12:42 AM	Well u see this class would be better had u had to catch them flat-footed as just being able to say ok u take 10d8 points of damge and to be able to do that every turn is broken. You'll say that a rogue only has to flank and that isn't hard but at later levels flanking is really hard because some monsters can't be flanked or have uncanny dodge. So just being able to make an attack that deals furgenloads of damage each turn is rather broken.
Khuxan 03-21-06, 01:18 AM	Bow Mage Skill points per level: 6 + Int Mod. Class Skills Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival and tumble Why Bluff? Why Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Jump? Why not Knowledge (nature)? Why Tumble? Why 6 skill points, instead of four or even two? For comparison, an arcane archer gets Craft (Int), Hide (Dex). Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex) and four skill points. Weapon and Armor Profiency: A Bow Mage is profient with all forms of bows, including exotic bows, this does not include crossbow's. A Bow mage is Profient with light Armour, no shields. A Bow Mage does not incure Arcane Spell Failure due to the fact their spells have no somatic components. Fair enough, but are there any exotic bows in existence? Attune Bow: A Bow Mage has a magical resonance set up between him and his bow. This resonance requires 1 week of meditation to set up. The bow must be masterwork to have a resonance set up in it for it to work. A bow mage will always start of as a masterwork short bow if it is not within his budget to afford one. A bow mage can only be attuned to one bow at a time. You should add a sentance such as "A bow mage requires his attuned bow to cast spells without somatic components." Otherwise people have to scroll all the way down to the bottom of your post to find out what use attuning a bow is. Ranged Accuracy: As a standard action a Bow Mage is able to make an accurate shot that deals an extra 1d8 damage. This is precision based damage and effectively counts as sneak attack for all purpose’s except the target doesn’t have to be flat footed or flanked. A Bow Mage can only apply this damage to the bow he is attuned to. A d8 of Ranged Accuracy damage effectively counts towards a d6 of Sneak Attack for qualifying for feats and PrC. Any creature immune to sneak attacks are immune to damage from Ranged Accuracy. When a Bow Mage gets multiple attacks they are able to apply Ranged Accuracy to multiple attacks but most follow these rules: To work out how many dice of damage you have to split up, you get your base die of bonus damage and multiply it by 1.5. You then must split up your Ranged Accuracy damage dice between at least two attacks. Each can’t have any more then your normal damage die – 2. Shorty is right that a free 10d8 points of damage is a beast... but at 1st level this effectively doubles the bowmage's damage. Not a good idea. I suggest +1d6 damage at 2nd level and +1d6 every two levels after 2nd. This ability shouldn't require a standard action. The damage should simply apply to any attack the bowmage makes with a bow. It shouldn't have anything to do with sneak attack damage. Saying "Creatures that are not affected by sneak attacks also ignore this damage" is fine, but it's not a good idea to let ranged accuracy damage count as sneak attack damage for the purpose of prerequsites. Also, for simplicity and precedent's sake, have ranged accuracy damage apply to every attack, just as sneak attack damage does. Shoot and Cast: As a full round action a Bow mage can cast one standard action spell he knows and make an attack applying Ranged Accuracy damage. At second level you can only cast a 1 first level spell this way, at 5th level this allow you to cast 2nd level spells, at 9th level it increases to 3rd level and 13th it increases to 4th, at 15th level it increases to 5th level and at 19th level it increases to 6th level spells. You can only cast a spell that would directly affect your attack or change you arrow in someway or another. Thus you could cast Truestrike but not Invisibility. What about rewording it to be "As a full-round action, a bowmage can make a ranged attack and cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action. However, at 2nd level the bowmage may only cast 1st level spells in this manner. At 5th level, 2nd level spells can be cast, at 8th level 3rd level spells, and at 11th level 4th level spells can be involved in Shoot and Cast. At 14th level, 5th level spells are permissable, and at 17th level, so are 6th level spells." Greater Sudden Silent: A Bow make learns the art of stealth and learns how to be particularly quite while casting spells. You may replicate the effect of the silent metamagic feat a number of days equal to the users Charisma modifier. Why not just give the bowmage the ability of a normal silent metamagic rod three times a day? Longer Precision: A Bow mage can make Ranged Accuracy attacks from 30 feet more distance then normal range. There's no limit to the range you can make ranged accuracy attacks. Do you mean the range increment of bows you wield increases by 30 feet? Because that's rarely going to be any use. Spells: A bow mage has spell list but it is yet to be developed so anything that fits flavor wise is in at the moment. They cast spells as a bard with spells per day and save DC’s based off charisma. They have their own spell list and spell lists though. Modifications to Spells: Arrow storm becomes a third level spell. What book is arrow storm in? Why does it need to change level? Magic Arrow At level two a Bow mage learns the secret pf imbuing his arrows with spells. All offensive spells with either touch or ranged touch, must be imbued in an arrow which when fired effects the target of the attack. Offensive spells that affect an area instead get imbued into the arrow and detonate where the Arrow lands. Thus a 3rd level Bow Mage could cast Orb of Acid, use his Shoot and Cast ability and end up dealing Bows damage + 2d8 (Ranged Accuracy) + 2d8 acid damage. A level 5 Bow Mage could cast a fireball into an arrow and then snipe a group leader allowing the fireball to take care of the weaklings around him. And arrow only stays charged for 1 round/level. But at higher levels how long an arrow stays imbued increases. Although you can never regain spell slots for spells that are currently being imbued in an arrow. The arrow lasts a min/level at level 8, hour/level at level 12 and 3 hours/level by level 18. I think this ability is at too low a level, and its effects should be staggered. Something like "at third level, you can place a ray spell in an arrow. At 6th level, any variety of energy missile or ranged touch spell. At 9th level, area effect spells, and at 12th level, touch spells". You haven't listed the time it takes to imbue an arrow, and for a 20th level bowmage to be able to imbue a spell into an arrow for 60 hours is a bit excessive. Changes to Spell Components: All spells cast by a bow mage require him to have his Attuned bow as a focus. All Material components costing less then one gold are no longer required for the casting of the spell. All somatic components are replaced by holding the bow as well. This should be included in the 'Spells' section or 'Attune Bow' section above. New Feats Pierce Fortification [General] Prerequisites: 5d8 Ranged Precision (Not Sneak attack) Benefit: As a standard action you can size up your opponents fortification and find a weakspot, your next attack ignores the fortification of that target, this only lasts for one round then you need to refocus yourself (Which is a standard action). By fortification, you mean the fortification special quality of armors and PrCs? The cost of this feat (a standard action) and the rarity fortification comes up in a game makes it almost useless.
risker 03-21-06, 01:21 AM	What I find most broken here, is the embue arrows ability. I could just spend 8 hours resting, load up a quiver of embued arrows, that don't cost me a thing, the go to sleep, wake up 10 hours later (I sleep in) and prepare more spells and go attack whoever it is I want to attack. After all, at lv 18, the embue ability lasts for 3hours/level which equals about 54 hours, so I STILL have 44 hours left to spend and ENTIRE days worth of spells, without even touching the spells I also have prepared. Other than that, I like it. The presision damage ability should probably be a standard action, or a full round that gets reduced to a standard action later. And be careful what spells you give him. should still have arcane spell failure in armor greater than light. Don't give him powers like tensers transformation, and he should probably be profficient in simple weapons, or some small selection of melee weapons, such as dagger, short sword, mace, quarterstaff, and spear, just to make sure he can do SOMETHING in melee. after all, he has a BAB of 15, he should be able to use it at a range of <15' . other than that, I'd replace the extended range ability with the feat, in the PHB, extend range, that way he has 2x normal range.
Linkrulesx10 03-21-06, 01:27 AM	Ops I forgot to meantion you need to be within 30 feet to do ranged precision, like sneak attack. To risker: It says that you do not regain spell slots if the spell was in an imbued arrow. THanks for the tips I'll fix it up later sincve I got martial arts now...
PhoenixRajoNight 03-21-06, 02:06 AM	Besides what everyone else has mentioned, Why is it a d8 extra, this is too overpowering, nothing adds a d8 right out like that, change it to a d6. A warlocks ability to add its d6 to a melee attack is alrdy kind of sick and the games I play and dont dm in I get grief about that being broken, by other players and have to find a way to kill off the warlock and convince the dm to start me back at the same level without taking a level hit because i was doing it for the better ment of the game. Theres a reason you can only channel it into a melee weapon and not ranged, look I'll hit you from 30, then 60 feet later on and in order to stop the person doing the most fricken damage to me I have to break combat, getting attacks of oppurtunity, and then move 60 ft which most likely Is going to be full action for a double move or charge and get only 1 attack off, because I charged. If I were Dm imbueing something like that where theres no flanking needed I would make it a d4, to balance out peeps who wanted to play a rogue or a warlock. Secondly I must stress this point, a Rogue is a master of trades because they need to be, 6+int modifier for skills, in all sanity only belongs to them. A Spellcater is going to focus on what they are good at and what they need, not have a broad range of skills, or the want to learn such things, to need a 6+int modifier. I know it seems like I might be tearing apart your class, but its not bad, just your too power hungry. Your basically trying to create an Arcane Archer class but as a base class instead of a PrC, and the arcane archer gets enhancement bonuses that add 1 to attack and 1 to damage at each level gained. your not getting the bonus to attack so I'd say the d4 would make it equal, d6 is pushing it, and a d8 your off your bloody rocker, sorry to offend you if I did, but just trying to stress the point.
Rudiger_Smith 03-21-06, 05:02 AM	Now for me to come to the defence, its SUPER DM! Just Kidding I am actually DMing a game with link, with this very class. So far it is very balanced but I don't think it should be allowed the rule of multiple, smaller ranged accuracy. This class, while it seems brilliant doesn't deal nearly as much damage as the fighter and is less effective than the wizard. In other words, it suffers a bit from bard syndrome*** I really don't see what the problem with RP is, my duelist has a class feature very simialr to it and I can assure you its balanced. But yes, I think the imbueing of arrows should only last one day maximum. Apart from that, great class Link *** = I actually really like the bard, Yay Bards! :D
Linkrulesx10 03-21-06, 05:20 AM	The class I play in Rudigar's campaign is a slightly different earlier version, this one is more sane in many ways. Also I would like to as why can't the arrows last for more then a day? you don't regain the spell slots if you still have an arrow imbued with that spell... meh And untill I restrict the spell list I could see somke brokanage happeneing but only with very specific spells, Should I just maybe get rid of the lasting arrow thing? and I will updater tomorrow or tonight if im lucky, I got homework though... And on to the fortification issue, Anything with Fortification get effected so whether it is racial or magic item based, but if it is not tittled fortification and still offer's a miss chance for sneak attack damage, it doesn't count... And the d8 is because I based it off Order of the Bow Initiate from Complete Warrior Arrow storm is from the book complete arcane, allows you to make one attack per creature per CL And that it for now, updating tomorrow... I sound like a webcomic....
Red_Rabbit 03-21-06, 05:36 AM	is no one reading this..........This isn't balanced in anyway or form this isn't sane he's taking 3 Base Classes (Fighter, Bard, Rogue) and 2 Prestige Classes (Arcane Archer and Order of the Bow Initiate) to make this class. I'd like to know how anyone thinks this is balanced. Ranged Accuracy - so at lvl 20 you are getting 4 shots and all are doing 10d8 + whatever the arrow does ummmm............no maybe if you made it One shot as a full round action it MIGHT get alittle better when you are using this Class Ability (Accuracy means you aim not fire wildly for 10d8 per hit). Shoot and Cast - Yes lets give a lvl 2 ALMOST HASTE LIKE ABILITY (EVERY ROUND) so he can cast a spell and fire an arrow and the rest of the party can sit back and watch maybe they'll cheer for you. I can go on how this class has gone Horribly wrong, but I would Suggest making it into a prestige class that you'd have to take lvls of Rogue and Wizard/Sorcerer for, because this is to over OVER powered and I'd hope this would be laughed off any game table. The Rabbit P.S. None of you accually open the PHB or DMG do you
Linkrulesx10 03-21-06, 06:38 AM	OK Mr. High and mighty, so mighty I don't even HAVED TO READ THE CLASS TO MAKE AN OPINION. If you read it properly (Honestly you don't do you?) you would find out a level 20 bowmage can shoot one + 8d8 arrow and one + 6d8, I still think this might be a tad overpowered buit it isn't anything like the insanity your talkming about.... and with the shoot and cast ot jst makes some spells move actions, not haste... especially not 3.5... the downside to this ability is you can't move or make multiple attacks... something arechers are generally good at... so next time READ THE CLASS P.S the spell has to directly effect the arrow or the shot such as true strike...
Red_Rabbit 03-21-06, 12:06 PM	i missed that but look at it this way that's still 10d8 to split up among 2-4 attacks cause no archer is gonna go without RAPIED SHOT FEAT still way way to overpowered. It doesn't matter what the spell affects it's the fact you are giving them basically a quicken spell (not just 1 spell per day but every round and any spell LEVEL) at lvl 2 and then letting them attack in the same round that is very close to a Haste like ability. Lvl 5 to use this power to do a lvl 1 spell and than set up a progression for higher lvl spells The Rabbit P.S. you still don't respond to why you are combining so many classes together this looks like a quick fix so you can get all the powers of other classes in one
Red_Rabbit 03-21-06, 12:59 PM	This would be a good breed of PrC for this I hope this will meet to more liking than the earlier version. It's way way over powered and I'd still laugh at anyone who asked to play it. Requirements Base Attack - +5 Skills - Concentration - 8 Craft (Bowmaking) - 4 Knowledge Arcana - 8 Feats - Point Blank Shot Precise Shot Combat Casting Weapon Focus (any Bow no Crossbow) Casting ability - Must be able to cast lvl 2 Arcane Spells Special - Must have Masterwork Bow Base Attack as Fighter Fort Save - Poor Reflex/Will Save - Good lvl 1 - Attuned Bow, Ranged Accuracy (+2d8) +1 Arcane Caster lvl lvl 2 - Magic Arrow +1 lvl 3 - Lesser Shoot and Cast +1 Arcane Caster lvl lvl 4 - Ranged Accuracy (+3d8) lvl 5 - Magic Arrow +2, Extend Precision +1 Arcane Caster lvl lvl 6 - Shoot and Cast lvl 7 - Ranged Accuracy (+4d8) +1 Arcane Caster lvl lvl 8 - Magic Arrow +3 lvl 9 - Greater Shoot and Cast +1 Arcane Caster lvl lvl 10 - Ranged Accuracy (+5d8) Attune Bow: at lvl 1 A Bow Mage has a magical resonance set up between him and his bow. This resonance requires 1 week of meditation to set up. The bow must be masterwork to have a resonance set up in it for it to work. A bow mage can only be attuned to one bow at a time. Ranged Accuracy: at lvl 1, 4, 7, 10 As a standard action a Bow Mage is able to make an accurate shot that deals extra damage. This is precision based damage and effectively counts as sneak attack for all purpose’s except the target doesn’t have to be flat footed or flanked. A Bow Mage can only apply this damage to the bow he is attuned to. Any creature immune to sneak attacks are immune to damage from Ranged Accuracy. When a Bow Mage gets multiple attacks they are able to apply Ranged Accuracy to multiple attacks. Magic Arrow:at lvl 2, 5, 8 lvl 2 - Arrow turns into +1 arrow lvl 5 - Arrow turns into +2 arrow lvl 8 - Arrow turns into +3 arrow Shoot and Cast at lvl 3, 6, 9 lvl - 3 - Lesser Shoot and Cast - Imbue arrows with lvl 1 and 2 Spells lvl - 6 - Shoot and Cast - Imbue arrows with lvl 3 and 4 spells lvl - 9 -Greater Shoot and Cast - Imbue with lvl 5 and 6 spells Extend Precision: at lvl 5 A Bow mage can make Ranged Accuracy attacks from 30 feet more distance then normal range.
Linkrulesx10 03-21-06, 02:39 PM	ok... well if you notice it has a 3/4 BaB which is not like a fighters.... Hmmm the reason I am doing this is so I can play the character I envisioned without mutliclasssing crazziness... If I wanted to I could make a charecter that is still an archer/fighter/bonus damage/with spells at level 20 which would be nmuch stronger then this classs... Or even yet just play a cleric... Also I think you kinda missed the point on shoot and cast... as a full round action you can cast one standard action spell and make ONE attack... so it's not really a quickened spell... althoughy it may be haste like (If you still use 3.0) Iv'e used this class (Although slightly different cause the one I use is any earlier version) and the shoot and cast has given me no problems... Also with ur PrC you gave it better saves and BaB??? Once I limit the spell list I think It will be better.... P.S Thanks for being more civil....
Linkrulesx10 03-21-06, 02:56 PM	Edited it with some of khuzan's suggestions. TO Khuxan: The reason it doesn't apply to every attack is beacause you don't need to catch your opponents off guard to add the damage, if I did that it would really be broken... Oh and the reason they have all those skills is so they can be either an Assasin type person, Adventurer, Spy and they need those skills to find their targets, and talk themselves out of trouble...
Elemental_Master 03-21-06, 04:11 PM	I think u pulled off ranged persision well but it seems too powerful next to a rogue.. I would probaly do Bowmage 8/ Arcane archer 10/ Fighter 2 This combo gives 2 bonus feats, 18 bab like 4d8 randged persision and a +5 bow with any other magical bonuses. If u do a flavor section definetly put down that this is an elf classs. Dude that would be a 5d8 + 5+ Dex+ plus str ( if comp.) + any feat bonuses. Sweet.
PhoenixRajoNight 03-21-06, 04:27 PM	If your DM, actually allowed/allows this class he shouldnt be dming, look what you said your taking the damage of the d8 from a PrC, no base class gets d8 to it like that, second off yeah your right it isnt like quicken spell its an attempt by yourself to get quicken spell without having the drawbacks of the spell, and can still get quicken spell later as a feat as well, quicken spell takes up a spell slot 4 levels higher, and you cannot cast a spell that takes up a full round to cast because then its not eligable to be quickened, with yours it could be any spell no penalty at all and its a free action. Not to mention the fact you've got spells known progression better than a fricken sorcerer's, except for level 0 spells, ooooo big set back on the level 0 spells(that was sarcasm btw, and saying Mr. High and Mighty to Red_Rabit, was completely immature, your just upset, because your making a rigged character, if your dm is gonna let this class in then I wouldnt wanna play in it, unless I could have a Minotaur/Half-Dragon with no level adjustment because that is equivilent to what your asking, and as far as I can see you have not stated how many spells per day you want this guy to cast, im gonna take a guess here. Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 50 25 - - - - - 2 100 50 - - - - - 3 200 100 - - - - - 4 400 200 100 - - - - 5 800 400 200 - - - - 6 1600 800 400 - - - - 7 3200 1600 800 400 - - - 8 6400 3200 1600 800 - - - 9 12800 6400 3200 1600 - - - 10 25600 12800 6400 3200 1600 - - 11 etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. That sound about right? Do you know what munchkanizing is? Because thats what you doing, taking the best from all the classes and making it into 1, and your not even doing that your adding crap in from PrC's, yes now my comments are brash, but this class is rediculously over powered, and peeps were ragging on the guy about his Gladiater class which only had a few things wrong with it, this ones WHACK. Heres another point about the class, your character spends most of his time in the study of his bow and arrow capabilities, and his magic, he does not have the time to learn all these skills. Cleric wizard and sorcerer get 2+int modifier to there skill points, druid gets 4, these are the spellcasters, where as the third-spellcasters like bard and ranger get 6, and the paly gets 2, your character has spells in progression of the sorcerer minus 0 level spells and you dont get the later 3, this is better than the rest of the non-full spellcasters, yes i know non-full sounds dumb but w/e. Your class should have 2 he doesnt have the time to gain that much with learning his other special abilities and spells.
Khuxan 03-21-06, 11:42 PM	TO Khuxan: The reason it doesn't apply to every attack is beacause you don't need to catch your opponents off guard to add the damage, if I did that it would really be broken... Then I suggest making it apply only to the first attack you make in a round. Oh and the reason they have all those skills is so they can be either an Assasin type person, Adventurer, Spy and they need those skills to find their targets, and talk themselves out of trouble... But they shouldn't be able to be an assassin or spy (that's the rogue), nor should they be able to talk themselves out of trouble (that's a high Charisma) and there's nothing in the class's flavor that implies they're a bounty hunter with 'targets'. As long as your spells known/spell slots are equal to a bard's, I don't have a problem with the bowmage knowing more spells than the sorcerer. The class is no where near as broken as PheonixRajoNight makes it sound.
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 12:20 AM	OK well onto the spells, they have same spell's per day as a bard and know 7 more at levet 20... although their spell list will be smaller then the bard's... Also maybe I should mention it has to be a standard action spell... I thought that was common sense...
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 12:32 AM	Edited, reworded certanain abilities and made the greater sudden silence make sense... I realised the way I wrote it it didn't make sense... OH for people that are ranting at broken, prove it mathamatically without doubt and I will change the class based around your findings, till then... :P and oh I did stat you have the spells per day of a bard... And i think these guy's would make excellent bounty hunters, spies of some sort but mainly bounter hunters I see
ManTimeForgot 03-22-06, 02:11 AM	Manyshot + True Strike + 2 arrows fired (I'm even going to assume that manyshot will only give 10d8 damage instead of 15d8 like this person seems want to do with his "splitting" up precision bonus amongst multiple attacks) I do this every round. I will only miss on a 1. Lets be honest about what we are shooting here (since bow's give their magic mod to their ammunition): At level 20 with 15 BAB, 26 dex (with +6 gloves and level benefits), 18 strength (starting 12 and +6 girdle), and Greater Bracers of Archery. Weapon: +4 Mighty Composite Longbow +5. (for the purposes of this exercise mods like ghost touch and farshot are not being considered even though they should probably be there). Ammunition: Shocking Arrows +1 (With flame arrow cast on them) 2d8+10 (from magic)+8 (from strength)+2 (from bracers)+2d6 (from shocking)+2d6 (from flame arrow) + 2 (from point blank shot) +10d8 (from precision). Average damage (barring crits and misses): 99 damage. Attack Bonus on each attack: 15+20 (true strike)-4 (four for manyshot right?)+2 (greater weapon focus) +2 (greater bracers) +1 (point blankshot)+8 (dex) +5 (magic mod)= +49 to hit. So to recap two arrows fired at +49 to hit doing 99 average damage, and this can be done each round as necessary... I guarantee you that archery was ALREADY fearsome with the arcane archer, but this thing you have outpaces the arcane archer at doing what the arcane archer was ALREADY good at (Read true striked manyshots). The imbue arrow you give this class makes the arcane archer's look stupid. The arcane archer at least had to deal with low level spells if it only took one level of wizard, and its class abilities were for the most part once per day. I would also like to point out that your ranged precision ability still allows me to Greater Manyshot and hit multiple targets with ranged precision in a single action. MTF
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 02:11 AM	PhoenixRajoNight, I take offence to that and I'm the DM of his game. And quite a good one if I do say so myself, and I don't believe I deserved that from you. This class is not broken, in any name, way or form, and Link is a mature player who really isn't munchikining, he just doesn't like multi-classing. Link's class is very broken on the surface, and I personally would advise against and indeed not let the bow mage gat multiple, smaller ranged presision attacks and make it a standard action. But after I gave it a chance, I saw that it really is a cool class and it was less powerful than most of the other party members. It also helps that the Mage doen't use offensive spells besides the things that could be fired from a bow (eg. melf's acid arrow). Also, shoot and cast really isn't broken and adds to the flavour. Although this isn't in the rules yet, it will be because link is very busy. In fact my only problem besides my earlier rantings, is that the class is really just a big pansy that hides, pops out and shoots things. But I for one applaud the verasatility of this class. Just lay off him and instead of trying to railraod him into a prestige class, help him make the core class better and stop. Oh and stop bagging my DMing out please, once again, I don't deserve it.
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 02:36 AM	WOW... I never knew that many shoot could be abused like that, even though I'm fairly Mature (Thanks Rud) I am yet to play an archer type so I don't know any of the cheese that comes with playing an archer, I shall make sure manyshot abuse doesn't work (That is Ranged Accuracy with multiple attacks from manyshoot) And I did not make this class to see how much this class is broken compared to average classes... I'm not a great Munchkin but I can do ok if I try but in 2 minute's I already came up with a 20 level build that has better spellcasting, better BaB, still contains Imbue Arrows and a 7d6 SN, but there are many ways to sneak attack every round, if you can't sneak attack every round you just aren't trying, I'm not out to brake a game but seriously if your not out to abuse this class it isnt broken... Just saying that it can be broken if you do x + y + z -f to the power of t cubed... But if it is something as simple as many shoot... that needs to be fixed lol...
Hennet 03-22-06, 03:47 AM	Well, I like what I see. I would still like to see a Spell List though, depending on what the spell list is like, it could completly change the class. It is a class that I would never want to multiclass from, there are so many class features that continue as levels are gained, like the Warlock, they gain too many Class Features to make it worth multiclassing worth it (unless it was a really good class). AND, WOW PhoenixRajoNight is a !@*# have you ever heard of Constructive Criticism, you !#@*!
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 03:54 AM	It may be overpowered, but we can all settle down and help Link build a class.
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 03:56 AM	Ummm yeah, he was directing his anger at the dead phoenix... I made sure it isn't to broken when combined with manyshot by reducing damage die by 4 just like u get a -4 on attack roles I might start with the spell list soon... when I get around to it....
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 03:57 AM	Yeah I realised, thats why I editted the post, really sorry Hennet.
Hennet 03-22-06, 03:58 AM	Hennet, I don't actually understand what you just said, so I won't assume things. If that was direccted at me, yes ihave heard of constructive critisism but I don't lik epersonal insults and PhoenixRajoNight was not giving constructive critisism. If it was not in any way directed at me or anything like that (There is a high probability I misunderstood), I'm sorry I didn't understand you, and know that I don't jump to conclusions. It may be overpowered, but we can all settle down and help Link build a class, I just hate it when I get insulted. Read it again, I worded it wrong, I edited it. See if you understand it now. I am Mitchell, Links cousin. I know who you are, HI!
Hennet 03-22-06, 03:59 AM	ok
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 04:00 AM	Hey mitchell, didn't know it was you. Yeah, sorry about that, I read it again and I realised. Thats why I editted it, sorry again.
tunagolem 03-22-06, 04:01 AM	Spells: A Bow Mage has spell list but it is yet to be developed, so anything that fits flavor wise is in at the moment. They cast spells as a bard with spells per day and save DC’s based off charisma. They have their own spell list and spell lists though although the spell list is yet to be decided upon. Their Attuned Bow replaces all somatic and material components of less then 1 gp but add a focus component: Their Attuned Bow :waits: How can anyone reply before the spell caster spells are there?!
Hennet 03-22-06, 04:05 AM	:waits: How can anyone reply before the spell caster spells are there?! Yeah, we know that. Why don't we all just wait a while until Link has come up with a spell list, before more people go all agro.
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 04:20 AM	I've come up with a PHB spell list, for level 1-3 I am watching house now so talk and give suggestions on spells that should and should not be their... EDIT: House was a repeat so more time formaking spell list...
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 05:06 AM	Ok, well iv'e done the whole spell list from the PHB, I am now moving on to spell compendium... You may have trouble playing this class without the complete adventurer or spell compendium, if so expand the spell list to take in more spells. Thanks to my cousins (Hennet's) help we fixed up a bit of grammer abd made it look more presentable.
ManTimeForgot 03-22-06, 05:59 AM	I think it was a good choice rolling back the skill points from 6 to 4. This class never needed more than 4 really. The ranged precision rules seem well... rather clunky. I mean I know you are doing this in favor of "balance," but I'm pretty sure we can help you come up with an easier way to do it than this. My suggestion would be to do something like this: Have the class gain +1 damage while making a Precision Shot per class level. This roughly equates to about a d4's worth of damage in extra damage, but it would have an added benefit that dice damage don't have. Since this is a flat bonus added, instead of dice, it would be added into crit rolls. Precision shot would still only be applicable on the first shot of the round, but since this is an added bonus to damage you could make it so that it only applied to the final damage calculation for a given attack and not be applied to individual arrows (thus the manyshot problem would be fixed). And since greater manyshot constitutes multiple attacks there is no longer any interaction. Before I can comment on balance as a whole though I would like to know this class' caster level. I honestly think if this is a CL 20 class, then this could get rather broken. Being able to chuck CL 20 disintegration arrows at things many rounds in a row is probably too powerful... MTF
tunagolem 03-22-06, 01:36 PM	Creature Strike Divination Level: Bow Mage 1 Components: V, F Casting Time: 1 Swift Action Range: Personal Target: you Duration: 1 Round For one round you are able to Ranged Accuracy either Undead, Constructs ot Plants. Take off the vocal component. That's a spell you need to cast stealthly.
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 03:51 PM	Ok, I won't remove the V component, thats where silence spell comes in. The spells I basedthat off both had V compoenents I believe so no reason to remove them from this spell. I like your idead of the precision but it does seem kinda weak, since one damage per level is like rolling all ones of D4's, maybe if it went up, 1,3,4,6, etc. If that happened I could remove the weapon spec. bonus feats as well.... I'd have to think on it... Maybe i should give them an ability that add dex to damage to help balance the drop in damage dealt And yes the cl is 20, like a bards, but I really don't see an issue, sdince you only have 5 maybe 6 6th level spells per day with a good charisma by level 20 and you only gain access to this spell at level 16...
PhoenixRajoNight 03-22-06, 05:50 PM	I tried to explain it nicely, but you don't get it, so yeah I went over board a lil, because your stubborn, and your not willing to see crap. And you cant get better spellcasting because you'd have to be level 11 in wizard just to get 1 spell of level 6, and I'm pretty sure that wizards get access to spell levels the earliest, why dont you prove your level 20 character thats better than this, and yes I do criticize you as a dm letting this class in, imbueing weapons/arrows is like a spellsword, which even at 10th level of the class he gets 5 channels per day. And you also went off to say rabbit was being high and mighty which kinda shut-off the caring to show you respect. Secondly the d8 as i have stated is way to high, and rud, stop acting and defending the class, I've DMed for quite a while, and I know your throwing bs at me, I know how this class would run, especially if all the other peeps in the game are base classes, he'd be there doing all the attacking, and the rest would be there ****** off because their characters are no where close to this one. ok lets go through the classes here. Im going to go with a level 10 base to all these characters. With the following stats to re-arange 18 18 16 14 12 10 (Yes these are good stats, I'm using an actual average from points on 8 diff character sheets in front of me from old games and games im in and dming, and holding on to.) Barbarian Half-Orc Stats STR 22 (+2 +1 +1) (26 Temp when Raged) DEX 16 CON 18 (22 Temp when Raged) INT 10 (-2) WIS 14 CHAR 8 (-2) BAB: +10\+5 HP: 114 (134 Temp Rage) Total Saves F,R,W: 11(13 Temp when raged), 6, 5(7 temp when raged) Total Attack Bonus:Large Great Axe +13\+9(BAB +6STR +1WF +1MW -2MG +2Rage -5PA) Total Attack Damage:3d6+17 with Temp Rage and PA (Average Damage 27x2=54) Feats and Special Abilities: Fast Movement, Illiteracy, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense +3, Damage Reduction 2/-, Rage 3/day, Weapon Focus Great Axe, Monkey Grip, Power Attack, Cleave Ranger Elf Stats STR 18 DEX 22 (+2 +1 +1) CON 12 (-2) INT 12 WIS 16 CHAR 10 BAB: +10\+5 HP: 58 Total Saves F,R,W: +8, +13, +6 Total Attack Bonus:+4 Mighty Composite Longbow (with longer arrows 1d10) +10\+10\+5(BAB +6DEX +1WF, +1MW -6MS -2 RS) Total Attack Damage:1d10+4 (Average of 10x5=50) 5 arrows total 3 in first shot 2 more shots Feats and Special Abilities: 3 Favored Enemies, Track, Wild Empathy, Combat Style Rapid Shot, Endurance, Animal Companion, Improved Combat Style Many shot, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Evasion, Weapon Focus Bow, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Far shot Bow-Mage Elf Stats STR 18 DEX 22 (+2 +1 +1) CON 12 (-2) INT 12 WIS 10 CHAR 16 BAB: +7\+2 HP: 45 Total Saves F,R,W: +8, +13, +3 Total Attack Bonus:+4 Mighty Composite Longbow (with longer arrows 1d10) +16\+11(BAB +6DEX +2WF, +1MW) Effectively Im just going to do normal attacks without doing many shot or rapid shot. Total Attack Damage:1d10+4+2 +5d8 +10d6 from fireball first shot(Average Damage of 65) 1d10+4+2 +2d8 for second shot if not imbued (21) Total of 86 average damage Feats and Special Abilities: Ranged Accuracy +5d8, Point Blank Shot, Attune Bow, Magic Arrow, Evasion, Shoot and Cast, Weapon Focus Bow, Uncanny Dodge, Sudden Silent, Weapon Specialization Bow, Improved Magic Arrow, Greater Weapon Focus Bow, Presise Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Pierce Fortification So in Ending here: Barbarian has Average damage: 54 Ranger: 50 Bow-Mage: 86 And if we add in the many shot we adding in another 12 damage and another 12 with rapid shot total of 110 damage and a Rogue with a short sword for the record here, does average damage of 51 Over powered no not at all he just does fricken double everyone elses damage, and oo look the fireball from the arrow is gonna hit other creatures as well, unless your turning it into a focused attack. There's the math for ya.
Tevin Kevlak 03-22-06, 05:54 PM	This class is broken. You've taken the most potent abilities from the Order of the Bow Initiate and the Arcane Archer and combined them together with even deadlier spell-casting. Ranged Precision (the ability that adds d8's onto the Order of the Bow Initiates attacks) requires a standard action to use... therefore, you can only ever make 1 attack per round with a +5d8 damage bonus. Your class allows mutiple attacks per round will still granting Ranged Precision damage although no higher than 10d8 (which is still twice the damage bonus an Order of the Bow Initiate can fire). Lets stat out 2 level 20 characters, a Scout 10/Order of the Bow Initiate 10 and a Mage Archer or whatever you're calling it. both have 26 dex, and 18 str a +4 Composite Longbow +5, and +1 Frost Arrows. Also, Weapon Focus Comp. Longbow Scout/Order of the Bow Initiate Full Attack: +31 ranged (1d8 +4 strength, +5 Longbow, +1d6 Frost, +3d6 Skirmish (if he moves at least 10 feet), +5d8 Ranged precision) = 48 average damage all for 1 attack, however to use Ranged Precision the Order of the Bow Initiate can only make 1 attack. Bow Mage Single Attack: +29(1d8 +4 strength, +5 Longbow, +1d6 Frost, +10d8 Ranged Precision) = 78 damage for 1 attack including full ranged precision. So, in short the Bow Mage does what the Order of the Bow Initiate does best but better. It deals out massive amount of damage with a single well aimed shot. However, your Bow Mage can use ranged precision in a full attack as long as the precision damage is split up amongst multiple targets (not a big deal). Lets now see how much damage your Bow Mage would deal with a full attack: Full Attack: +29/+24/+19 (1d8 +4 strength, +5 Longbow, +1d6 Frost, +10d8 ranged precision) = 110 damage. So, even with nothing but regular bow shots the Bow Mage out damages the Order of the Bow Initiate per round. Now, lets compare the 20th level Scout/Order of the Bow Initiate's damage per round to your Bow Mage when he casts a spell and fires his bow in the same round as per your horribly mangled Quicken Spell class ability. Lets see what happens when the Bow Mage fires the equivalent of a quickened disintegrate (FYI you can't even have a quickened Disintegrate spell or 6th level spell for that matter before epic levels) on top of his bow damage. Single Attack: +29 ranged (1d8 +4 strength, +5 Longbow, +1d6 Frost, +10d8 Precision, +40d6 Disintegrate) = 201 damage. So, by firing his bow he can deal more than 4 times as much damage per round than an Order of the Bow Initiate while casting a spell with his shot. This might not have been a problem considering that the Order of the Bow Initiate can constantly dish out lots of damage with his bow without per day modifiers like spells but THE BOW MAGE ALREADY DEALS MORE DAMAGE THAN HIM WHEN JUST FIRING HIS BOW! This class is also leaps and bouns ahead of the Arcane Archer as well simply for the fact that he still deals more damage per round when just firing his bowthan the Arcane Archer, will have more spells per day than the Arcane Archer, and have access to higher level spells than the Arcane Archer... the only thing the Arcane Archer has going for it is it's death arrow/seeking arrow abilities which are useless compared to casting true strike and firing a +10d8 precision shot in the same round, or casting finger of death and firing a +10d8 precision damage arrow in the same round. This class needs serious revamping.... seriously. Edit: Also, the Bow mage will have more hit points on average than the Scout/Order of the Bow Initiate.
PhoenixRajoNight 03-22-06, 06:09 PM	Finally someone with some common D&D sense, thank you Tevin Kevlak. Hes also giving himself Fighter only feats as well.
Tevin Kevlak 03-22-06, 06:09 PM	Oh, and if this guy is actually weaker than the other members of your party I'd like to know what kind of characters they're running... Feral Half-Dragon Troll Warhulks? Maybe Feral Fire Giant Mineral Warrior Frenzied Berserkers?
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 06:38 PM	I'm soory again I snapped, but I trusted link, but I think I'm going to freak out now. LINK, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING!?!?!? Disintergrate? I only just saw the spell list, and you've changed it quite a lot, what happened to only one or two offensive spells? I'm really sorry, Tevin Kevlak and PhoenixRajoNight, I trusted Link and I thought the spell list was roughly the same as before, and you are right, with this spell list, the Bow Mage is ridiculously broken. You see, in my campaign, the Bow Mage is still a work in progress and I have had to hit it with the nerf bat several times, and it was working well, as he really only had melf's acid arrow, but Disintergrate?!?! Also, the ranged precision was just one arrow with no feats such as rapid shot or multishot, which in average damage addedd up to about 49 damage in a turn (at level 20), powerful, but not broken. Okay, it still doen't change my attitude about how we shouldn't Insult one another but Link, its time this class got (another) workover. I'm not trying to belittle anyone, and I'm not trying to quote game credentials but please don't insult people, just realistically tell them that the class is uber broken and make a few suggestions (If theyre stubborn, just shrug your shoulders and don't post, let them think theyre making a balanced class). But yes it is broken now, I'm sorry again PhoenixRajoNight and Telvin Kevlak. By the way, the other characters are a Dwarf Cleic of Orcus, a Goliath Fighter (Nothing else), and an Elven Incarnate Wizard thingy. Just in case you're interested, I hate level ajustments other than Goliaths and Half-Giants.
Tevin Kevlak 03-22-06, 06:55 PM	Yes, the Bow Mage's spell list is rather small but it still has huge damage spells like Fireball and Disintegrate. Even with a work over of the spells the class is still unbalanced. The Order of the Bow Initiate is a PRC with pretty tought requirements (4 feats in total so unless you're a human or a fighter or a ranger you can only take it at 9th level) but EVEN with a smaller amount of offensive spells the Bow Mage is still too powerful... if it is doing what a PRC is doing but better and with no restrictions it isn't balanced... not by a long shot. Also, the ability to use Quicken Spell (or a class ability that works basically the same way) with no caster level increase for every spell you can cast and for a spontaneous casting class like this one is unbalanced. Normally using a meta-magic feats for spontaneous casters increases the casting time to 1 full round action making Quicken Spell useless. Even if you change the Ranged Precision ability to mirror that of the Order of the Bow Initiate (a standard action) the Bow Mage will, most likely, never ever miss a shot since he can just cast True Strike every time he fires his bow as long as he still has spells per day left.
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 07:05 PM	Thats true Kelvin, but isn't true strike a move action anyway? But yes, I have been annoyed in the past by the shoot and cast option, maybe if they just get gradually get better at quciken spells? But NO disintergrtate or fireball, once again WTF?
Tevin Kevlak 03-22-06, 07:43 PM	First off, I'd like to say that this should totally be a PRC instead of a base class but I'm guessing that's not what Link is looking for so, I'll try my hand at shaping it up a little bit. First off the skills should look a little more akin to this: Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Profession, Spellcraft, and Spot. Poor Saves: Fort, Will. Good Saves: Reflex As for class abilities, almost all of them need to be revamped. 1st level: Bow Focus, Point Blank Shot 2nd level: Evasion 3rd level: Range Increase +5 feet 4th level: Arcane Shot 1st 5th level: Imbue Arrow 1st 6th level: Range Increase +10 feet 7th level: Arcane Shot 2nd 8th level: Imbue Arrow 2nd 9th level: Range Increase +15 feet 10th level: Arcane Shot 3rd 11th level: Imbue Arrow 3rd 12th level: Range Increase +20 feet 13th level: Arcane Shot 4th 14th level: Imbue Arrow 4th 15th level: Range Increase +25 feet 16th level: Arcane Shot 5th 17th level: Imbue Arrow 5th 18th level: Range Increase +30 feet 19th level: Arcane Shot 6th 20th level: Imbue Arrow 6th Bow Focus: To cast spells a Bow Mage must be wielding a specially attuned bow. To attune a bow a Bow Mage must spend 1 week in peaceful meditation. Once the Bow Mage has an attuned bow he uses that bow as the Focus for all the Bow Mage spells he casts. All Bow Mage spells have Focus Bow added to theit component list. Range Increase: The bonus granted by this ability is two-fold. Not only does it increase the range increment of the Bow Mage's attuned bow (see Bow Focus above), it also increases the range at which the Bow Mage can use his Arcane Shot ability. Arcane Shot: At 4th level the Bow Mage can use the Arcane Shot ability. By sacrificing one of his daily spells the Bow Mage recieves a bonus to hit with his attuned bow equal to the level of spell he sacrifices (ex. +1 for first level spells, +2 for second levels spell and so on) as well as +1d4 damage/level of the spell he sacrifices but only with his attuned bow. Activating this ability is a free action and the bonuses last until the start of your next turn however this bonus to hit and damage only works within 30 feet of the target (this is increased however by the Range Increase class ability, see above). At 4th level the Bow Mage may sacrifice only 1st level spells with this ability, at 7th level he may sacrifice spells of up to 2nd level, at 10th level he may sacrifice up to 3rd level spells, at 13th level he may sacrifice up to 4th level spells, at 16th level he may sacrifice up to 5th level spells, and upon reaching 19th level he may sacrifice up to 6th level spells. Imbue Arrow: At 5th level the Bow Mage can imbue area spells into his arrows allowing him to use his attuned bow's range instead of the spells range. The spell is centered where the arrow lands. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow and the arrow must be fired in the same round the spell is cast or the spell is wasted. A Bow Mage may only imbue 1st level spells into his arrows at 5th level, this increases however as the Bow Mage gains levels allowing him to imbue 2nd level spells into his arrows at 8th level, 3rd level spells into his arrows at 11th level, 4th level spells into his arrows at 14th level, 5th level spells into his arrows at 17th level, and finally 6th level spells into his arrows at 20th level. Then, I'd tweak the spell-list around a little but I don't really have the time right now. I personally think this is a little more in tune with the other base classes, but any criticism is welcomed obviously.
PhoenixRajoNight 03-22-06, 07:47 PM	Honestly Ill give what the class should be. Hit Die: d6 Class Skills The Bowmage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise(Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana, Geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex), Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int mod) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1 0 0 2 0 Piercing Strike + 1d4, Attune Bow, Magic Arrow 2 1 0 3 0 Evasion, Enchant Arrow 3 2 1 3 1 Piercing Strike +2d4 4 3 1 4 1 Uncanny Dodge 5 3 1 4 1 Piercing Strike +3d4 6 4 2 5 2 Sudden Silent 7 5 2 5 2 Piercing Strike +4d4 8 6 2 6 2 Greater Magic Arrow (1min/level) 9 6 3 6 3 Piercing Strike +5d4 10 7 3 7 3 Extended Shot 11 8 3 7 3 Piercing Strike +6d4 12 9 4 8 4 Greater Magic Arrow (1 hour/level) 13 9 4 8 4 Piercing Strike +7d4 14 10 4 9 4 15 11 5 9 5 Piercing Strike +8d4 16 12 5 10 5 Greater Extended Shot 17 12 5 10 5 Piercing Strike +9d4 18 13 6 11 6 Greater Magic Arrow (2 hour/level) 19 14 6 11 6 Piercing Strike +10d4 20 15 6 12 6 Greater Sudden Silent Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A bowmage is proficient will all forms of bows, including exotic bows (not including any type of crossbow) and with light armour. Because a Bowmage's spell never contain somatic componets, a Bowmage does not incure the normal arcane spell failure chance. Attune Bow: A Bow Mage has a magical resonance set up between him and his bow. This resonance requires 1 week of meditation to set up. The bow must be masterwork to have a resonance set up in it for it to work. A bow mage will always start of as a masterwork short bow if it is not within his budget to afford one. A bow mage can only be attuned to one bow at a time. A Bow Mage needs his Attuned Bow to cast his spells. You rename The Ranged Precision because its something that already exists, therefore if he wanted to take that PrC later, then it wouldnt conflict. Piercing Strike: Once a Bow Mage has Become Attuned to a bow he gains more force behind hit arrows, causing the arrow to sink deeper into his opponent dealing and extra damage at first level of 1d4 this damage increases once every 2 levels of the Bow Mage, gaining 2d4 at 3rd, 3d4 at 5th and so on. This attack counts as a sneak attack for all purposes but needing to hit the target via flanking or being flat-footed, and must be made within 30 feet of the target. When a Bowmage would make more than 1 shot in a round the bonus damage gained drops 1d4 per attack, subtracting 1d4 from the first shot 1 from the every shot after . So a 10th level Bowmage could make 3 shots if able at 3d4, 2d4, and 1d4 bonus damage to his/her roles. Shoot and Cast: As a full-round action, a bowmage can make a ranged attack and cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action. However, at 2nd level the bowmage may only cast 1st level spells in this manner. At 5th level, 2nd level spells can be cast, at 8th level 3rd level spells, and at 11th level 4th level spells can be involved in Shoot and Cast. At 14th level, 5th level spells are permissable, and at 17th level, so are 6th level spells. Sudden Silent: A Bow make learns the art of stealth and learns how to be particularly quite while casting spells. You may replicate the effect of the silent metamagic without any change in the spells level a number of times per day equal to the users Charisma modifier. Extended Shot: A Bow mage can make an attack from 60 feet at 10th level and 90 feet at 16th level and gain the bonus damage from Piercing Strike. Magic Arrow/Enchant Arrow: When a Bow mage casts an offensive spell they are not able to select targets or aim a ray or touch attack. Instead they must cast the spell into an arrow they posses and the spell unleashes itself when that arrow hits a target. An Arrow can keep a 'charge' for one round a level before the arrow loses it's magic. Imbueing an arrow requires the same amount of time as casting the spell normally. At level 8 the arrow can hold its 'charge' for 1/min level, at level 12 the 'charge' can last for 1/hour level and at level 18 it lasts for 2/hours level. The arrow's are subject to a dispell magic, if the spell itself has a duration, it doesn't start till the arrow hits. Spell List: The Bow Mage's Spell list is narrowed down to Damaging Spells that are a Ray, Touch, Line, or Area effect spells. The Bow Mage may opt to enchant an arrow with spells that could normally be placed on weapons and or arrows as well. Ok, there is my opinion of what would make this class pretty balanced. I might be off on some stuff, but also remember later on he gets a huge amount of damage on the spells, and can pre-enchant the aroows without needing to use his shoot and cast, I would not say he cant cast disintegrate if he can cast it under the pre-requisites I just stated, If a normal mage can cast it it shouldnt be a big deal at that level neways. If you look close I think this is pretty good final answer to this character, and honestly I dont think this class has the blood of a dragon to get the Char based spell features, I'd say it would be Int based, and there you go for the skill points as well, its a base of 2+Int mod, but the int mod of the class is the stat based on the spellcasting for this class, and the skill points are more legitimate that way.
Tevin Kevlak 03-22-06, 07:53 PM	Thats true Kelvin, but isn't true strike a move action anyway? But yes, I have been annoyed in the past by the shoot and cast option, maybe if they just get gradually get better at quciken spells? But NO disintergrtate or fireball, once again WTF? No, casting True Strike is 1 standard action. The normal rules for using True Strike is that the caster casts True Strike (which applies only to the next attack made as long as it is made in the next round) and then the next round gets to make an attack with a +20 added on. Or, you can prepare Quickened True Strikes as 5th level spells (so a 9th level wizard may do this if they take the feat Quicken Spell) cast them as a swift action and then make an attack with a +20 in the same round. The Bow Mage can do this at 2nd level and it only requires him to use 1st level spells and as he gains access to higher spell levels he can sacrifice his daily uses for 1st level spells and thus gain +20 to hit NUMEROUS times per day.
PhoenixRajoNight 03-22-06, 07:59 PM	Oh and 1 more thing, he should only be able to cast one spelll onto each arrow at a time. so he isn't casting 5 disintegrates on 1 arrow, also for area effect spells if he misses to hit then the spell from the arrow should fail.
Rudiger_Smith 03-22-06, 08:11 PM	No, casting True Strike is 1 standard action. Sorry, thought it was a move action. I really like PhoenixRajoNight's version of the class, we'll see what Link says when he gets on
Linkrulesx10 03-22-06, 08:37 PM	Thank you people, now we are getting somewhere with improving this class, I dont mind yelling as long as it has practical ideas, since im at school this will be a short reply but I will look at all suggestions and see if I can make a more balanced class, I always knew this version was broken, horribly so at that, I just didn't know what was broken and what ways it could be abused since I left many holes but I didn't know where they were, so now they are being pointed out we can finally ger somewhere, Also Rudiger the the one I play in your campaign is different and no where near as powerful... I am also limiting shoot and cast to cha mod a day. umm the archer build was a level 5 wizard, 3 rogue, 10 arcanetrickster and 2 Arcane archer, I made this build in 2 minutes so it may have a few flaws but it was (At least I thought) more powerfull then my bow mage... But now we shall see, I will reviw waht every one has said and try to make a more balanced class.
Red_Rabbit 03-23-06, 01:33 AM	Besides my turning his class into a PrC, I think Tevin is closest to turning this into anything that is ok The Rabbit
PhoenixRajoNight 03-23-06, 01:14 PM	Honestly I would have been happy with a class that gets the archery bonuses to damage, the 1d4, but he still wants to imbue the arrows, and so I think keeping it close to what he wants the changes I made to the class was the best solution. If it were my game I would do just the bonus to damage on the arrows, and make a PrC, that would be something like a spellsword but for ranged weapons instead, if bow of the initiate and arcane archer didnt please him, Honestly the way it is now I can make a Monk pretty close to the damage he can do, considering 1vs1 I would avoid his First Arrow of the round(The Magic One). The Point Behind his class is to try and make a Base Archery Class, and dont say this is a ranger because in all honesty i can make a Fighter Archer and it would be better than a ranger, I don't play rangers for this reason, they just arent really that good, cept maybe in a Gestalt Game mixed with fighter, speeking of which maybe Ill make that the npc in the evil campaign I'm gonna run soon, Tho I was planning on a BlackGuard/Monk Gestalt, but I make BlackGuards a lil diff then the book, for a starting base class, because without being an ex-paly the BlackGuard Kinda sucks, well I'm trailing here, so I'll just end it there.
Linkrulesx10 03-23-06, 04:08 PM	Ok, what about this idea, We get ride of ranged accuracy damage, and instead to make up for it give them CHA to damage roles that superceedes strength, reason for this is that the magical connection between them and their bow is so strong that they can use their force of personality (Charisma) to help them pull back the bow string... so do you think that would be better, and mack it max bonus on damage roles is equal to 1/2 class levels, so to stop one level dips... comment on this idea....
PhoenixRajoNight 03-24-06, 01:47 AM	Honestly As I said before the Class should be an Int based Spell-casting, and the thing with the char there is a feat for it, tho i think it might only be for melee attack. Why do you want to get rid of it now? The new setup would allow you to do a good amount of damage, and its pretty balanced now.
Linkrulesx10 03-24-06, 03:38 AM	What new set up the one with the d4s of damage you could easily get 30d4 damage, anbd thats just as bad as 15d8, I am actually thinking of letting them add their charisma mod. to damage as their mystical connection allows the bow to have more power behind it. So that is a less powerful way to replace ranged accuracy, and we let them keep their spells and also get ride of the weapon specilisations... So does that sound better and more balanced... Oh, and you cant add more damage from charisma mod. then half your level to stop one level dips... I personally think this is a much better idea, I can't believe I haven't thought of it before... Oh and why do you think these guys should be int, no other spountaneous casters are Int based. I see these guys as having a mystical connection with their bow and drawing power from it, clearly something Cha based, not much scholerly learning their for int. Although the one I play in Rudigar's campaign is Int based and uses a spellbook, but for what I want from this class in general, spellbooks just seem wierd.
PhoenixRajoNight 03-24-06, 04:01 AM	Thats also at 20th level and its 5 diff attacks to get that 30d4, so your going to miss probably about 1/2 the time that high so The point is that this way it makes it so you dont get that damage at 10th level, which you were getting before, now you getting about even damage of what other chars get at 20th level.
Linkrulesx10 03-24-06, 04:06 AM	it was actually 4 attacks and 30d4, 5 attacks and it's 35d4.... any way what you think about the charisma idea?
Linkrulesx10 03-24-06, 05:34 AM	Bow Mage GAME RULE INFORMATION Bowmages have the following game statistics. Abilities: Dexterity provides extra protection for the bowmage. Charisma determines how powerful a spell a bowmage can cast, how many spells she can cast, and how hard those spells are to resist. A good constitution score gives a bowmage extra hit points. Strength is important for a bowmage to get extra damage for when they use a composite bow. Alignment: Any. Hit Die: d6. Class Skills The Bowmage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise(Cha), Escap Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills and skill descriptions. (Player's Handbook). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int mod) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1 0 0 2 0 Point blank Shot, Attune Bow, Magic Arrow 2 1 0 3 0 Evasion, Shoot and Cast, Forcefull Arrow 3 2 1 3 1 Weapon Focus Bow 4 3 1 4 1 Uncanny Dodge 5 3 1 4 1 Sudden Silent 6 4 2 5 2 7 5 2 5 2 8 6 2 6 2 Lasting Magic Arrow (1min/level) 9 6 3 6 3 10 7 3 7 3 Greater Weapon Focus Bow 11 8 3 7 3 12 9 4 8 4 Lasting Magic Arrow (1 hour/level) 13 9 4 8 4 14 10 4 9 4 15 11 5 9 5 16 12 5 10 5 17 12 5 10 5 18 13 6 11 6 Lasting Magic Arrow (2 hours/level) 19 14 6 11 6 20 15 6 12 6 Greater Sudden Silent Weapon and Armor Profiency: Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A bowmage is proficient will all forms of bows, including exotic bows (not including any type of crossbow) and with light armour. Because a Bowmage's spell never contain somatic componets, a Bowmage does not incure the normal arcane spell failure chance. Attune Bow: A Bow Mage has a magical resonance set up between him and his bow. This resonance requires 1 week of meditation to set up. The bow must be masterwork to have a resonance set up in it for it to work. A bow mage will always start of as a masterwork short bow if it is not within his budget to afford one. A bow mage can only be attuned to one bow at a time. A Bow Mage needs his Attuned Bow to cast his spells. Forcefull Arrow A Bow Mage becomes so in tune with her bow that she is able to use her force of personality to pull back the bow beyond it's normal capabilities. This effectively allows her to add her Charisma Modifyer to damage, but to a maximum of half her Bow Mage level's rounded down. Shoot and Cast: As a full-round action, a bowmage can make a ranged attack and cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action. However, at 2nd level the bowmage may only cast 1st level spells in this manner. At 5th level, 2nd level spells can be cast, at 8th level 3rd level spells, and at 11th level 4th level spells can be involved in Shoot and Cast. At 14th level, 5th level spells are permissable, and at 17th level, so are 6th level spells. This can only be done a maximum times per day equal to their charisma modifyer + 1/4 their Bow Mage levels. Greater Sudden Silent: A Bow make learns the art of stealth and learns how to be particularly quite while casting spells. You may replicate the effect of the silent metamagic without any change in the spells level a number of times per day equal to the users Charisma modifier. Spells: A Bow Mage has spell list but it is yet to be developed, so anything that fits flavor wise is in at the moment. They cast spells as a bard with spells per day and save DC’s based off charisma. They have their own spell list and spell lists though although the spell list is yet to be decided upon. Their Attuned Bow replaces all somatic and material components of less then 1 gp but add a focus component: Their Attuned Bow Magic Arrow When a Bow mage casts an offensive spell they are not able to select targets or aim a ray or touch attack. Instead they must cast the spell into an arrow they posses and the spell unleashes itself when that arrow hits a target. An Arrow can keep a 'charge' for one round a level before the arrow loses it's magic. Imbueing an arrow requires the same amount of time as casting the spell normally. At level 8 the arrow can hold its 'charge' for 1/min level, at level 12 the 'charge' can last for 1/hour level and at level 18 it lasts for 2/hours level. The arrow's are subject to a dispell magic, if the spell itself has a duration, it doesn't start till the arrow hits. You cannot regain spell slots for spells which are still charged in arrows at the time of regaing them. Spell Known: Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 4 2 - - - - - 2 5 3 - - - - - 3 6 4 - - - - - 4 6 4 2 - - - - 5 6 4 3 - - - - 6 6 5 4 - - - - 7 6 5 4 2 - - - 8 6 5 4 3 - - - 9 6 5 5 4 - - - 10 6 6 5 4 2 - - 11 6 6 5 4 3 - - 12 6 6 6 5 4 - - 13 6 6 6 5 4 2 - 14 6 6 6 5 4 3 - 15 6 6 6 6 5 4 - 16 6 6 6 6 5 4 2 17 6 6 6 6 5 4 3 18 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 19 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 20 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 New Feats Pierce Fortification [General] Prerequisites: 5d8 Ranged Precision (Not Sneak attack) Benefit: As a standard action you can size up your opponents fortification and find a weakspot, your next attack ignores the fortification of that target, this only lasts for one round then you need to refocus yourself (Which is a standard action). Spell List From PhB Cantrips: Not important, do them later Level 1: True Stirke, Shield, Sleep, Burning Hands, Disguise Self, Ray of Enfeblement, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump, Magic Weapon, Pass Without Trace and Reduce Person Level 2: Resist Energy, Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, Touch of Idiocy, Blur, Invisibility, Blindness/Deafness, Ghoul Touch, Cat's Grace, Spider Climb and Align Weapon. Level 3: Dispell Magic, Arcane sight, Hold Person, Fireball, Displacement, Ray of Exhaustion, Flame Arrow, Fly, Haste, Keen Edge, Magic Weapon Gr. and Searing Light Level 4: Dimension Door, Detect Scrying, Confusion, Invisibility Gr., Enervation, Freedom of Movement and Poison Level 5: Hold Monster, Cone of Cold, Disrupting Weapon, True Seeing, Seeming, Mislead and Break Enchantment Level 6: Dispell Magic Gr., Disintergrate, Undeath to Death, Eyebite, Flesh to Stone, Cat's Grace mass and Finger of death. From SpC New Spells:
Linkrulesx10 03-24-06, 05:36 AM	So i poasted my new Idea's for the class here, if people agree to them I will move it to the primary post... or maybe even new thread...
Red_Rabbit 03-25-06, 02:18 AM	Still don't see why you don't make this a PrC I wouldn't play this class past lvl 5 if I would even want to. The Best Revision I could make of this Class Bow Mage 1 0 0 2 0 Point blank Shot, Attune Bow 2 1 0 3 0 Forcefull Arrow 3 2 1 3 1 Uncanny Dodge 4 3 1 4 1 Weapon Focus Bow 5 3 1 4 1 Shoot and Cast 6 4 2 5 2 Evasion 7 5 2 5 2 Magic Arrow 8 6 2 6 2 Lasting Magic Arrow (1min/level) 9 6 3 6 3 10 7 3 7 3 Greater Weapon Focus Bow 11 8 3 7 3 Sudden Silent 12 9 4 8 4 Lasting Magic Arrow (1 hour/level) 13 9 4 8 4 14 10 4 9 4 15 11 5 9 5 16 12 5 10 5 17 12 5 10 5 Lasting Magic Arrow (2 hours/level) 18 13 6 11 6 19 14 6 11 6 20 15 6 12 6 Greater Sudden Silent As for your Spell List - The following spells Don't match anything you say you want for this class from your last posts and the Necromancy spells need to be taken off. Level 1: Ray of Enfeblement and Reduce Person Level 2: Touch of Idiocy, Ghoul Touch Level 3: Ray of Exhaustion and Searing Light Level 4: Enervation Level 5: Looks ok Level 6: Disintergrate, Undeath to Death, Eyebite, Flesh to Stone and Finger of death.
Linkrulesx10 03-25-06, 05:24 AM	Why would I want to make it a PrC... I made this class so that I wouldn't have to mutliclass, I don't mind multiclassing but there is something wrong if you have to combine four different classes to be able to play a certain idea viable. If you want you could think of this as a 20 level PrC from first level... that was my first Idea when I made Bow Mage V.1... Hope that explains why I am not turning it into a PrC. O.K. Now onto spell lists: Level 1: Ray of Enfeblement (There cause the idea of a Mr. Tank being struck by an arrow and becoming weaker) and Reduce Person (Because being small allows Bow Mage's to snipe and sneak better as well as giving them selves a + 2 on attack roles, seemed to fit if you asked but thats why I put them there for people to debate) Level 2: Touch of Idiocy (Again an arrow that when it hits drains the intellect from a target, helpfull for incapacitating enemy wizards and other spell casters), Ghoul Touch (A Spell which allows the BowMage to incapacitate a foe if they hit and then fail a save, I may not agree with the stinking part of the spell but the parylizing effect is needed, when I get time I'll make a spell that parylizes them without the stench.) Level 3: Ray of Exhaustion (A spell that makes a foe useless for a long period of time without being lethal, needed tactic and an arrow that strikes that target and they start to feel tired is cool) and Searing Light (Ever played Legend of Zelda... LIGHT ARROWS YAY) Level 4: Enervation (Spell that sucks away the life from creatures, maybe I bit iffy as a spell choice for some, but for the necromantic bow mage this is am must have spell, there is nothing broken about it) Level 5: Looks ok Level 6: Disintergrate (Awww c'mon, how cool would it look if you just got struck by an arrow and the target turned into dust, kinda intimidating), Undeath to Death (Arrow of undead slaying anyone?), Eyebite (Being removed, thought it acted differently, upon re reading it made no sense), Flesh to Stone (Like related to disintergrate, the coolness factor, they get struck by an arrow and they stonify) and Finger of death (If you have spell compendium this spell will get replaced by Arrow of Bone, but really just a SOD spell for the bow mage, I personally wouldn't choose this spell but some might).
Hennet 03-25-06, 05:32 AM	Nice, I like what you have done with it. Good Work.
Linkrulesx10 03-25-06, 11:27 PM	Added the V 2.2 Bowmage to the primary post as well as the V.2 so hopefully more people will respond...
Red_Rabbit 03-26-06, 03:33 AM	I'd still go Fighter/Mage over this and PrC over this it looks like a dabble class nothing for long term if you don't PrC out. Your Class lacks appeal in my opinion, and no real reason to lvl up past lvl 5. Fighter-Feats and no Attuned Bow Skill "Still a wasted Class Feature" Mage-Better Spell list that fits the character instead of a "Looks Cool Spell List that doesn't fit the class" The Rabbit
Hennet 03-26-06, 03:41 AM	Well then, what do people think......?
Linkrulesx10 03-26-06, 05:45 AM	Ok, what do you think should be on the spell list? I am asking your opinion, since I want to see what other types of spells should be added?
cloud__1 03-27-06, 05:28 AM	I think the class is good. Distergate when a bow mage uses it is balanced, they must hit on normal A.C, as it's from an arrow, compared to a touch atk of a wizard, and the fort save if lower then that of a wizard, and they have had it for ages. Same principals with the sods. Besides, after playing with Link in Rudiger's campaign, I think he needs a little more kick, and arrows that turn people to dust fits the bill. P.S: If people have read the earlier posts by Rudiger, I'm the wizard.