Brainstorm: Coming up with ideas for ritual mage in modified magic world [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brainstorm: Coming up with ideas for ritual mage in modified magic world [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Faithless the Wonder Boy
04-23-05, 07:10 PM So, as two key players in one of my campaigns are leaving for four or five months, its been requested that I start up a new campaign and resume theirs when they return.

My idea for starting this is a very homebrew world, where one of the key facts is that magic, divine or arcane, just plain isn't that easy (in fact, the distinction doesn't exist in this campaign - yes, a significant change). I know it doesn't sound that original (nor is it the only new thing in my campaign), but here are some of the things I'm doing with it:

Minor supernatural or luck-based abilities are okay. A lot of the demons and other super-natural creatures are out, or perhaps extraordinarily rare. A lot of abilities from classes will still stand, though - in most cases, like the Ranger or Paladin, I'm going to just use the non-spellcasting variants found in the Complete Warrior. Bard and monk will probably need some significant changes (mostly bard), but I'll work on that after this.

Magic itself will take three aspects: healers, shamans, and ritual mages.

Healers focus energy flowing from Ain Soph Aur, the plane of infinite light, and direct it into healing magic, but they must be dedicated and extreme - it's very rare to just develop healing abilities.

Shamans are a modified druid race, watered down significantly (kind of a cross between the druid and the witch).

Ritual mages are the closest thing to the ever-popular wizards, although they're going to be very different. Basically, if you're willing to put in enough effort, magic IS possible (though it's not even called magic, to distinguish it from the wandering tricksters who thrill the world with sleight of hand). Instead, there is the highly ritualized occult magick similar to what was seen in europe in the late eighteenth century (as well as the revival in the late nineteenth and early twentieth).

Spells no longer exist, for one (yep, like I said, huge changes). It is no longer possible for a wizard or sorceror to wave his hands, mutter a few words, and bingo! fireball. The art of ritual magic is to better oneself, and rise above that which is humanity.

Within this, I already have a few ideas mechanically how this is going to work out. For example, divination (whose spells generally required longer casting times, effectively making them rituals anyways) is relatively unchanged. It is simply the art of focusing the mind and reaching out until you can see the patterns. So, the rituals to provide auguries and so on will be straightforward, and some of the easiest learned, beyond minor rituals that will provide a focused mental effort and minor abilities here and there (effects similar to the bless spell come to mind).

For something more significant, more significant rituals are obviously required.

0000000
Example: A ritual mage is looking to protect his city from an oncoming slaughter. He knows that the ravaging army will be there in perhaps three weeks at the most. He spends a hurried week researching and exploring new ways to focus the art, finding out how he can perhaps protect the city. Finally, he comes across an ancient ritual that might work, provided it is suitably modified. He painstakingly modifies it, collects the necessary components (including several other ritual mages), and they begin the two-day ritual in their lodge. Two grueling days of reaching for that which is beyond the human, of reaching the infinite light which is his real being. Finally, he has it, and then it is a simple matter of reaching out and changing reality, ever so slightly.

The ritual works. A wall of shining lights, encompassing all the colors of the rainbow, springs forth and surrounds the city. Only those marked by his lodge will be able to pass through unharmed; the invading army will be burned, dazzled, and ultimately crushed. The city is safe. And now, to the complicated task of marking the city, so that the world does not become a prison...
00000000

Okay, so you get the idea. Anyway, like I said, I have a few ideas for incorpoarting this mechanically as a base class (various rituals can be combined under a set of rules to create certain effects - so, in the above example, the ritual mage needed to research how to create a prismatic wall, and find a way to modify it as such that those marked or named by his lodge can still pass through unharmed). The system will basically indicate that the more work put in, the more you get out.

Some other ideas are:
- allowing for rituals that create buffs, either weak ones that cover an army or strong ones that cover one individual, to be triggered with a certain key word;
- allowing for permanent effects far more frequently, provided the ritual mage spend time each day attending (assuming the effect is not disrupted);
- giving a bardic knowledge and several language bonuses, both to represent the well-learned nature of the ritual mage and to balance out the incredible difficulty in playing the class (it is obviously not one so suited to dungeon-hopping);
- perhaps even giving monk-like abilities (the self-betterment abilities, not the combat abilities) that progress based on level, since the rituals involve perfecting and evolving the human body and breaking ego boundaries;

and so on.

So, I was hoping that before I get down to writing the class out, I could put this up and hope for some more ideas, both on the rituals and bonuses of the class, and on ways in which this can work, mechanically.

Thanks a lot,
Manyfist
04-23-05, 11:46 PM Hmm.... I think there is a Ritual Spellcasting Alt. in UA or Complete Arcane. I also have a question will psionics be included? Your world sounds like one of the Japanese Armaggedon Video Game.
Faithless the Wonder Boy
04-25-05, 02:32 PM Manyfist, I wasn't planning on including psionics.

So, a couple more ideas I had:

Ritual Mages will be able to cast a few minor spells as it is, without the necessary ritual involved. Things like Read Magic and Detect Magic, and the like.

Many of the more powerful ritual spells will have to be done at certain specific times, and so on. Summoning rituals would be a good example of this. Though summoning a monster is considerably harder now, the effects are much greater - the summoned monster stays for days, or longer if the mage is willing to make some sacrifices. Since they'll only be able to summoned certain times, this won't be totally abusable - a PC won't be able to summon an army.

I'm trying to think of ways in which the Ritual Mage will have more to do than just hide alone when in combat situations, though. Perhaps rituals that have bardic-music like effects while they're occuring wouldn't be a bad idea. The effects would have to be a bit stronger, but I could see that working out well - the Ritual Mage staying in the background, performing a ritual that will give his allies a divine vigor.

So, what do you think? Any other ideas?
Faithless the Wonder Boy
05-02-05, 02:37 PM Bump... no one has any ideas? :(
Northwest
05-04-05, 10:58 AM I like the idea. Learning some of the rituals can easily lead to several mini-missions.

Spell types that lend themselves well to long rituals:
Divinations, summonings (w/as you mention, longer lasting effect), protective circles or buffs, powerful healing, communications,

The abilities you might want to have available to the ritual mages as short term use (for combat):

Dispel Magic/Banishment - w/detect magic, they see an enemy is buffed or beast is summoned, they try to get rid of that in combat
Temporary (shorter duration)buffs - maybe a ritual performed earlier with a trigger word later, perhaps like artificer infusions
Minor healings, possibly even temporary (false life)

I will try to think of a few more
Faithless the Wonder Boy
05-09-05, 02:41 PM Thanks, NorthWest. The Detect Magic/Dispel thing is nice, I'll probably incorporate that.

How would class progression work with something like this? I want the ritual mage to have to research every ritual - they don't just know them, it takes hard work. So, rather than getting rituals per level, I was thinking of having all rituals "out there," provided the characters are willing to put in the effort to find them, but then various rituals will have level requirements. Perhaps a progression for the number of rituals a character can cast per day (or week, not sure) - just to represent the difficulty that only eases with experience.

Detect Magic and Read Magic at will sounds like a pretty strong class ability, but limited. Throw in Bardic Knowledge, since any ritual mage has to be well-learned.

Perhaps I can have ritual mages learn certain new techniques, as they progress in levels. For example, maybe a first level ritual mage doesn't know how to modify rituals to have the effect come about with a certain key word - that's something they learn at perhaps fifth level. And maybe at various levels they learn techniques to make the rituals shorter, less costly, etcetera.

I'm wondering - should they have the standard wizard BAB progression? It would make sense from a storyline point of view, since anyone who focuses that much in learning about ritual magick is bound to have very little time for training, but it also leaves ritual mages, especially low-level ones, rather high and dry when it comes to combat - even more so than standard low-level wizards and sorcerers. The arcane magic failure with armor can probably go (obviously they won't wear armor during rituals, but if a buff is to be keyed to a certain command word, that doesn't require complicated somatic gestures). That helps a little, but I'm not sure if it's enough.

So, any ideas how I can make this class balanced?

Thanks for the advice,
Northwest
05-09-05, 07:00 PM I wouldn't worry too much about Read/Detect Magic. The Warlock gets it at 2nd level at will. The SpellThief gets it at 2nd a number of times a day equal to his Charisma bonus ( I think). You might even get rid of Read Magic. Make the characters decipher old texts or find runes on stonehenge. A Knowledge (arcana), Decipher Script, or Spellcraft might do instead of it.

The balancing of this class will be in how available the rituals of different levels are.

Btw, this could have a huge impact on your world. There would be the typical commerce in teaching rituals, much as there is in spells, but in addition, if there is a specific place required for a certain ritual, I would expect it to be either be remote, protected by something, or commercialized. A nearby town always builds a wall around stonehenge prior to the solstice to make sure all the ritual mages pay admission, etc.
Thelon Fairblade
05-10-05, 09:42 AM Based on your descriptions, I don't see PCs being ritual mages. Accompanying them on quests, maybe, or fetching materials... but not playing them.

I, too, would suggest that a ritual mage gain the ability to hasten his magics as he goes up in levels. It could be a simple mechanic like "A ritual mage can 'cast' a ritual in only 1 round as if he were 4 class levels lower" (i.e. -2 spell levels, in normal magic terms); or it could be choosable or graduated "cast in less time by 1/X where X equals the class level penalty... -2 levels = 1/2 time, -5 levels = 1/5 time."
Faithless the Wonder Boy
05-11-05, 10:41 AM Northwest: Yeah, I figured it would have a huge impact in the world. Among other things, the use of ritual magic isn't really commercialized because of the dedication involved in it. While many of the ritual mages are indeed powerful and wealthy as a result of their vocation, it isn't for the selling of services or places to perform rituals. Rather, becoming a ritual mage takes an individual who possesses enough intelligence and mental focus that they are naturally rather capable individuals, and the actual act of performing the rituals furthers those abilities far beyond the norm. I'm thinking of a society similar to the more mystical masonic and rosicrucian lodges of the 18th century, particularly in Italy, France, and Germany.

The lodge system is also how these rituals are prepared. Ritual mages are almost always part of a lodge or group, and those interested in pursuing the art join up with one. The lodges are naturally secretive, so that the aspirant can achieve his illumination in stages (represented, most likely, by the twenty character levels). While the individual is free, and in fact encouraged, to research on his own, the lodges pass down certain secrets that allow the ritual mages to achieve their goal of self-perfection in the best possible manner. This is present in a lot of the mythology of the world, which will serve as a metaphor for the illumination process and some of the deeper secrets behind the art.

Anyways, on to the mechanical side of things.

I think one of my ideas that I'm definitely going to incorporate will be the use of triggers, which also fits in well with level progression. The rituals are performed and most rituals will be able to be triggered by a certain word or act at a future moment. This allows spells like buffs to be far more effective, since an elaborate ritual won't be necessary immediately prior to (or worse, during) combat. The ritual mage gets better at learning to use spell triggers as he or she progresses in levels.

I'm also going to have a few short (4-5 round, perhaps) rituals with moderate effects that can be performed alone. These will also be usable in combat. Other ritual mages can join in, which will make the ritual more powerful, but it's not necessary. These will also be based on level progression. Moderate evocation and illusion spells can apply here best, most likely. The other characters defend while the ritual mage works in the background for four or five rounds until he's able to call lightning from the sky - that sort of thing. Sure, it's way toned down from the current magic system, but then again supernatural beings will be considerably rarer, and the other classes will be toned down as well.

Also, my next level-based ability will be modification of rituals. Metamagic, more or less, though I'm not entirely certain how to incorporate this. Basically the ritual mage will have the ability to modify his or her spell - changing the duration, intensity, shape, size, and so on. It will be designed to give the ritual mage a lot more freedom in how he or she casts spells. I'll also have the ability to research and create new rituals, though I suppose I'll have to make a decent system for that.

Thelon: True, PCs might not want to play the ritual mage, especially not in the typical dungeoneering campaign. I've been thinking about that myself. Either way I want to flesh out the mechanics, partly because someone might want to play it, but ultimately because they're going to have an incredibly profound impact on the world. Still, I'd like to make it a class playable for PCs in a campaign that involves more than staying in one city for great lengths of time. Once again I'm thinking a lot of the masonic and rosicrucian movement (and also of similar occult movements that occured over a hundred years later, in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, primarily spawned by the Golden Dawn). After all, many of the best adventurers, historically, were also masons. Aleister Crowley was easily the most influential man in the occult movement of the past century, and he was also one of the most renowned mountain climbers in history. Casanova was supposedly an egyptian freemason. Goethe was a member of the Bavarian Illuminati, and for a time he was almost as well known for his odd excursions as he was for his writing. And so on...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Faithless the Wonder Boy 04-23-05, 07:10 PM	So, as two key players in one of my campaigns are leaving for four or five months, its been requested that I start up a new campaign and resume theirs when they return. My idea for starting this is a very homebrew world, where one of the key facts is that magic, divine or arcane, just plain isn't that easy (in fact, the distinction doesn't exist in this campaign - yes, a significant change). I know it doesn't sound that original (nor is it the only new thing in my campaign), but here are some of the things I'm doing with it: Minor supernatural or luck-based abilities are okay. A lot of the demons and other super-natural creatures are out, or perhaps extraordinarily rare. A lot of abilities from classes will still stand, though - in most cases, like the Ranger or Paladin, I'm going to just use the non-spellcasting variants found in the Complete Warrior. Bard and monk will probably need some significant changes (mostly bard), but I'll work on that after this. Magic itself will take three aspects: healers, shamans, and ritual mages. Healers focus energy flowing from Ain Soph Aur, the plane of infinite light, and direct it into healing magic, but they must be dedicated and extreme - it's very rare to just develop healing abilities. Shamans are a modified druid race, watered down significantly (kind of a cross between the druid and the witch). Ritual mages are the closest thing to the ever-popular wizards, although they're going to be very different. Basically, if you're willing to put in enough effort, magic IS possible (though it's not even called magic, to distinguish it from the wandering tricksters who thrill the world with sleight of hand). Instead, there is the highly ritualized occult magick similar to what was seen in europe in the late eighteenth century (as well as the revival in the late nineteenth and early twentieth). Spells no longer exist, for one (yep, like I said, huge changes). It is no longer possible for a wizard or sorceror to wave his hands, mutter a few words, and bingo! fireball. The art of ritual magic is to better oneself, and rise above that which is humanity. Within this, I already have a few ideas mechanically how this is going to work out. For example, divination (whose spells generally required longer casting times, effectively making them rituals anyways) is relatively unchanged. It is simply the art of focusing the mind and reaching out until you can see the patterns. So, the rituals to provide auguries and so on will be straightforward, and some of the easiest learned, beyond minor rituals that will provide a focused mental effort and minor abilities here and there (effects similar to the bless spell come to mind). For something more significant, more significant rituals are obviously required. 0000000 Example: A ritual mage is looking to protect his city from an oncoming slaughter. He knows that the ravaging army will be there in perhaps three weeks at the most. He spends a hurried week researching and exploring new ways to focus the art, finding out how he can perhaps protect the city. Finally, he comes across an ancient ritual that might work, provided it is suitably modified. He painstakingly modifies it, collects the necessary components (including several other ritual mages), and they begin the two-day ritual in their lodge. Two grueling days of reaching for that which is beyond the human, of reaching the infinite light which is his real being. Finally, he has it, and then it is a simple matter of reaching out and changing reality, ever so slightly. The ritual works. A wall of shining lights, encompassing all the colors of the rainbow, springs forth and surrounds the city. Only those marked by his lodge will be able to pass through unharmed; the invading army will be burned, dazzled, and ultimately crushed. The city is safe. And now, to the complicated task of marking the city, so that the world does not become a prison... 00000000 Okay, so you get the idea. Anyway, like I said, I have a few ideas for incorpoarting this mechanically as a base class (various rituals can be combined under a set of rules to create certain effects - so, in the above example, the ritual mage needed to research how to create a prismatic wall, and find a way to modify it as such that those marked or named by his lodge can still pass through unharmed). The system will basically indicate that the more work put in, the more you get out. Some other ideas are: - allowing for rituals that create buffs, either weak ones that cover an army or strong ones that cover one individual, to be triggered with a certain key word; - allowing for permanent effects far more frequently, provided the ritual mage spend time each day attending (assuming the effect is not disrupted); - giving a bardic knowledge and several language bonuses, both to represent the well-learned nature of the ritual mage and to balance out the incredible difficulty in playing the class (it is obviously not one so suited to dungeon-hopping); - perhaps even giving monk-like abilities (the self-betterment abilities, not the combat abilities) that progress based on level, since the rituals involve perfecting and evolving the human body and breaking ego boundaries; and so on. So, I was hoping that before I get down to writing the class out, I could put this up and hope for some more ideas, both on the rituals and bonuses of the class, and on ways in which this can work, mechanically. Thanks a lot,
Manyfist 04-23-05, 11:46 PM	Hmm.... I think there is a Ritual Spellcasting Alt. in UA or Complete Arcane. I also have a question will psionics be included? Your world sounds like one of the Japanese Armaggedon Video Game.
Faithless the Wonder Boy 04-25-05, 02:32 PM	Manyfist, I wasn't planning on including psionics. So, a couple more ideas I had: Ritual Mages will be able to cast a few minor spells as it is, without the necessary ritual involved. Things like Read Magic and Detect Magic, and the like. Many of the more powerful ritual spells will have to be done at certain specific times, and so on. Summoning rituals would be a good example of this. Though summoning a monster is considerably harder now, the effects are much greater - the summoned monster stays for days, or longer if the mage is willing to make some sacrifices. Since they'll only be able to summoned certain times, this won't be totally abusable - a PC won't be able to summon an army. I'm trying to think of ways in which the Ritual Mage will have more to do than just hide alone when in combat situations, though. Perhaps rituals that have bardic-music like effects while they're occuring wouldn't be a bad idea. The effects would have to be a bit stronger, but I could see that working out well - the Ritual Mage staying in the background, performing a ritual that will give his allies a divine vigor. So, what do you think? Any other ideas?
Faithless the Wonder Boy 05-02-05, 02:37 PM	Bump... no one has any ideas? :(
Northwest 05-04-05, 10:58 AM	I like the idea. Learning some of the rituals can easily lead to several mini-missions. Spell types that lend themselves well to long rituals: Divinations, summonings (w/as you mention, longer lasting effect), protective circles or buffs, powerful healing, communications, The abilities you might want to have available to the ritual mages as short term use (for combat): Dispel Magic/Banishment - w/detect magic, they see an enemy is buffed or beast is summoned, they try to get rid of that in combat Temporary (shorter duration)buffs - maybe a ritual performed earlier with a trigger word later, perhaps like artificer infusions Minor healings, possibly even temporary (false life) I will try to think of a few more
Faithless the Wonder Boy 05-09-05, 02:41 PM	Thanks, NorthWest. The Detect Magic/Dispel thing is nice, I'll probably incorporate that. How would class progression work with something like this? I want the ritual mage to have to research every ritual - they don't just know them, it takes hard work. So, rather than getting rituals per level, I was thinking of having all rituals "out there," provided the characters are willing to put in the effort to find them, but then various rituals will have level requirements. Perhaps a progression for the number of rituals a character can cast per day (or week, not sure) - just to represent the difficulty that only eases with experience. Detect Magic and Read Magic at will sounds like a pretty strong class ability, but limited. Throw in Bardic Knowledge, since any ritual mage has to be well-learned. Perhaps I can have ritual mages learn certain new techniques, as they progress in levels. For example, maybe a first level ritual mage doesn't know how to modify rituals to have the effect come about with a certain key word - that's something they learn at perhaps fifth level. And maybe at various levels they learn techniques to make the rituals shorter, less costly, etcetera. I'm wondering - should they have the standard wizard BAB progression? It would make sense from a storyline point of view, since anyone who focuses that much in learning about ritual magick is bound to have very little time for training, but it also leaves ritual mages, especially low-level ones, rather high and dry when it comes to combat - even more so than standard low-level wizards and sorcerers. The arcane magic failure with armor can probably go (obviously they won't wear armor during rituals, but if a buff is to be keyed to a certain command word, that doesn't require complicated somatic gestures). That helps a little, but I'm not sure if it's enough. So, any ideas how I can make this class balanced? Thanks for the advice,
Northwest 05-09-05, 07:00 PM	I wouldn't worry too much about Read/Detect Magic. The Warlock gets it at 2nd level at will. The SpellThief gets it at 2nd a number of times a day equal to his Charisma bonus ( I think). You might even get rid of Read Magic. Make the characters decipher old texts or find runes on stonehenge. A Knowledge (arcana), Decipher Script, or Spellcraft might do instead of it. The balancing of this class will be in how available the rituals of different levels are. Btw, this could have a huge impact on your world. There would be the typical commerce in teaching rituals, much as there is in spells, but in addition, if there is a specific place required for a certain ritual, I would expect it to be either be remote, protected by something, or commercialized. A nearby town always builds a wall around stonehenge prior to the solstice to make sure all the ritual mages pay admission, etc.
Thelon Fairblade 05-10-05, 09:42 AM	Based on your descriptions, I don't see PCs being ritual mages. Accompanying them on quests, maybe, or fetching materials... but not playing them. I, too, would suggest that a ritual mage gain the ability to hasten his magics as he goes up in levels. It could be a simple mechanic like "A ritual mage can 'cast' a ritual in only 1 round as if he were 4 class levels lower" (i.e. -2 spell levels, in normal magic terms); or it could be choosable or graduated "cast in less time by 1/X where X equals the class level penalty... -2 levels = 1/2 time, -5 levels = 1/5 time."
Faithless the Wonder Boy 05-11-05, 10:41 AM	Northwest: Yeah, I figured it would have a huge impact in the world. Among other things, the use of ritual magic isn't really commercialized because of the dedication involved in it. While many of the ritual mages are indeed powerful and wealthy as a result of their vocation, it isn't for the selling of services or places to perform rituals. Rather, becoming a ritual mage takes an individual who possesses enough intelligence and mental focus that they are naturally rather capable individuals, and the actual act of performing the rituals furthers those abilities far beyond the norm. I'm thinking of a society similar to the more mystical masonic and rosicrucian lodges of the 18th century, particularly in Italy, France, and Germany. The lodge system is also how these rituals are prepared. Ritual mages are almost always part of a lodge or group, and those interested in pursuing the art join up with one. The lodges are naturally secretive, so that the aspirant can achieve his illumination in stages (represented, most likely, by the twenty character levels). While the individual is free, and in fact encouraged, to research on his own, the lodges pass down certain secrets that allow the ritual mages to achieve their goal of self-perfection in the best possible manner. This is present in a lot of the mythology of the world, which will serve as a metaphor for the illumination process and some of the deeper secrets behind the art. Anyways, on to the mechanical side of things. I think one of my ideas that I'm definitely going to incorporate will be the use of triggers, which also fits in well with level progression. The rituals are performed and most rituals will be able to be triggered by a certain word or act at a future moment. This allows spells like buffs to be far more effective, since an elaborate ritual won't be necessary immediately prior to (or worse, during) combat. The ritual mage gets better at learning to use spell triggers as he or she progresses in levels. I'm also going to have a few short (4-5 round, perhaps) rituals with moderate effects that can be performed alone. These will also be usable in combat. Other ritual mages can join in, which will make the ritual more powerful, but it's not necessary. These will also be based on level progression. Moderate evocation and illusion spells can apply here best, most likely. The other characters defend while the ritual mage works in the background for four or five rounds until he's able to call lightning from the sky - that sort of thing. Sure, it's way toned down from the current magic system, but then again supernatural beings will be considerably rarer, and the other classes will be toned down as well. Also, my next level-based ability will be modification of rituals. Metamagic, more or less, though I'm not entirely certain how to incorporate this. Basically the ritual mage will have the ability to modify his or her spell - changing the duration, intensity, shape, size, and so on. It will be designed to give the ritual mage a lot more freedom in how he or she casts spells. I'll also have the ability to research and create new rituals, though I suppose I'll have to make a decent system for that. Thelon: True, PCs might not want to play the ritual mage, especially not in the typical dungeoneering campaign. I've been thinking about that myself. Either way I want to flesh out the mechanics, partly because someone might want to play it, but ultimately because they're going to have an incredibly profound impact on the world. Still, I'd like to make it a class playable for PCs in a campaign that involves more than staying in one city for great lengths of time. Once again I'm thinking a lot of the masonic and rosicrucian movement (and also of similar occult movements that occured over a hundred years later, in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, primarily spawned by the Golden Dawn). After all, many of the best adventurers, historically, were also masons. Aleister Crowley was easily the most influential man in the occult movement of the past century, and he was also one of the most renowned mountain climbers in history. Casanova was supposedly an egyptian freemason. Goethe was a member of the Bavarian Illuminati, and for a time he was almost as well known for his odd excursions as he was for his writing. And so on...