Brawler Class Rough Draft [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brawler Class Rough Draft [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gilgiga of the Hunt
09-06-04, 03:08 AM This is merely a rough draft, so it has alot of work to go. Most of the ideas are nowhere near final form so give a guy a hand and help balance the class.
The goal here is to take the monk and give it much more role play room.
I may turn some of the monk ablties into bonus feats so you can get a best of both worlds here.
A better name would be apreceated too.
So here's my take on the...

Brawler

http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/Tvictory.jpg

The Towering Champion of the common people, an unarmed savage, a flashy pight fighter, a devout if gullable folower of a montastic order; each is an example of the Brawler. Lacking in the formal relgious training of the Monk they have not the ablity to work the near magic. However they are just a compitent if not more so on the field of combat.
Often from the pesant class the Brawler is either without weapons due to necesity or choise. There is no typical Brawler, each one is unique in his or her own story.

Adventures: Brawlers run the gammit for adventureing reasons, for honor, gold, respect, pristige. Some fight in grand colseiums where they are main attractions, others are lone masters of their art traing amongst monks in their temples.

Charcteristics Like the monk their primary ablity is that of fighting unarmed. Over time they gain insight into new tricks, and hard core foucsing of the body enable them to strike harder then the sharpest sword.
Brawlers tend to prefere large strikes that will unbalance and dislocate their foe.
Unlike the Monk the Brawler is not impeded by armor, although rarely do they train in anything more then the lightest armors. Over time Brawlers gain a strange sort of restance to damage, some claim from damage to nervious system, others just out of raw stubborness.

Alignment: Usualy of Lawfull alignment, as intinse training is required however this is just the norm. Frizied barbain warrors who fight without weapons or the Pit Fighter with no care for order can all be Brawlers.

Relgion:Many brawlers folow montastic orders, others venerate Kord. Orcish brawlers often are called the Fists of Gruumsh. In acctuality no one relgion really has a monopoly over brawlers.

Background: Brawlers are a diverse and mixed lot. Many claim ties to monistaries, often monk hopefulls but unable to master the mysitcal element.
But even these are just a large minority. Often Brawlers are home grown or trained under a more powerfull and expernced (sometimes a true monk) master.

Races: Brawlers are fairly common amongst all races, from Orc to Dwarf. Usualy someone has mastered the art of bieng able to hit someone better. Dwarvern Brawlers are notorious bar fighters and often renegades from Dwarven society living amongst other races.
Orcish brawlers are primal warrors who forego weapons.
Elves have turned unarmed combat into an art over their long years. Each taking centuires to master their art. Often mixing it with magic.
Small Halfling and Gnomeish brawlers at times may seem pathetic but they work to use their small size to their advantage.

Other Classes Brawlers often fit in better with other classes then their Monk Counterparts. The often seem less distant and more "human."
Brawlers often get along well with fighters and enjoy shareing insights into their styles. Monks are usualy held in high regard by the Brawlers, as they are the undisputed masters in their field.

Ablities: The physical stats of Strength, Dexterity, and Constituiton are the Barawlers staple. The mental stats are considerably less important, although a decent intelegence is recomended for access to the more defensive feats.

Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silent, Proffesion, Swim, and Tumble.
4+int mod per level x4 at first level.

BAB: As fighter
Saves: Good Fortitude and Reflex

Weapon and Armor Profecency: Brawlers are profecent in the use of all simple weapons, light armor, and buklers.

Class Features

Lvl/Features/Unarmed Strike Dam. Med/Small

1/Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple/ 1d4/ 1d3
2/ Uncanny dodge, Endurance/ 1d4/1d3
3/ Stunning Fist/ 1d4/1d3
4/ Bonus Feat/ 1d4/1d3
5/ Unbalanceing Strike/ 1d6/1d4
6/ Buypass Hardness/ 1d6/1d4
7/ Improved Uncanny Dodge/ 1d6/1d4
8/ Bonus Feat/ 1d6/1d4
9/ DR 1/-, Die Hard/ 1d8/1d6
10/ Greater Grapple/ 1d8/1d6
11/ Second Wind/ 1d8/1d6
12/ Bonus Feat /1d8/1d6
13/ DR 2/- /1d10/1d8
14/ Greater Buypass Hardness / 1d10/1d8
15/ Mighty Critical / 1d10/1d8
16/ Bonus Feat/ 1d10/1d8
17/ Hurtleing Strike/ 1d12/ 1d10
18/ DR 3/- / 1d12 /1d10
19/ Strike of Death/ 1d12/1d10
20/ Bonus Feat/ 1d12/ 1d10

Features:
Unarmed Strike: At first level the Brawler gains the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat and you deal leathal damage with your strikes, this damage increases over time. At any time you may opt to deal subdual damage instead.
Improved Grapple: The Brawler also gains the Impproved Grapple feat for free at first level.
Uncanny Dodge At second level the Brawler can react to danger before his senses could normaly react and is never caught flat footed.
At seventh level the Brawler can no longer be flanked. Thus deneying his enemy a flanking bonus, and Rogues can not sneak attack him unless the rogue is four levels higher.
Endurance Due to the rigorious training that brawlers go through they gain the Endurance feat at second level.
Stunning Fist: At third Level the Brawler gains the stunning fist feat for free.
Bonus Feat at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 level the Brawler gains an extra feat (list below)
Unbalanceing Strike The Brawler may spend a full round action to make a meele touch attack, if sucssefull the target must make a Balance check (DC = Attack Roll) or be knocked prone. Dwarves add their stablity bonus to this roll.
Buypass Hardness At 6th level the Brawler ignores an amount of Hardness on his unarmed strikes against objects equal to his Con Modifer. At 14th level this increases to twice the con modifer.
Damage ReductionStarting at nineth level the Brawler gains the ablity to ignore some amount of damage this starts of as Damage Reduction 1/- at nineth level then increases to 2/- at 13th and 3/- at 18th.
Die Hard At nineth level the Brawler gains the Die Hard feat for free.
Greater Grapple At 10th level the Brawler becomes adept at the art of the grapple and is considered one size larger than normal for deterimineing their grapple bonus.
Second WindAt eleventh level the brawler can recover from horrendious amounts of damge by spending a standard action the brawler can regain his Brawler Level + his Con Modifer in hp once per day.
Mighty Crititcal At fifteenth level the crit multipler on the Barawler's unarmed strikes is increased to x3
Hurtleing Strike At seventeenth level the Brawler may make a hurleing strike by takeing a full round action. The brawler then makes a meele touch attack against a foe. If sucesfull the barwler makes a Strength Check (DC 10) For every 5 by witch this check was beat the target is flown back 5 feet and prone. A Balance check (DC attack roll) can negate this part, Dwarves add stablity.
Strike of Death At nineteenth level the Brawler can spend a full action to make an attack roll targeting a fatal pressure point. If sucessfull the target must make a Fort Save DC 10+Brawler Level + Str Mod or die.

Bonus Feat List Armor Prof (Med and Heavy), Blind Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Moblity, Spring Attack, Whirlwind, Exotic Weapon Prof, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Critical, Defelct Arrows, Martial Weapon Prof, Power Attack, Cleave, Sunder, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Run, Sheild Prof, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization

Oh, and anyone wonna show me how to make one of those cute little tables, for the readers sake.
Edit 1: Reduced damage to show increase in power and skill but still weaker then Ki.
Replaced silly falling strike with Second Wind.
Thorak
09-06-04, 01:00 PM Why does he get increased unarmed strike damage? Why is he capable of dealing more damage with his bare hands than he can with, say, a Bastard Sword?

Note that it's not whether he can deal more damage than someone else can with a Bastard Sword that irks me. It's that he deals more damage than he himself could.

Monk-like improved damage reflects Ki-type energy boosting the attack. If you want to reflect training, giving the class free Weapon Specialization and GWS is how any other class would deal with that, along with WF and GWF if you like. If it's big, powerful whacks, giving the class free Power Attack works. If it's using their nimbleness to find a crack in the armor and nail it with a swift strike, then adjusting the Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike ability to add Dex bonus to damage would work.

But none of those reflect increasing the base damage[i] of the unarmed strike. And, in almost every case, a character like this should be capable of doing more damage wielding a metal pipe than he can with a punch.

And heck, if you get WS and GWS, you're doing 1d3+4 damage. That's 5-7 damage, which is on average [i]better than any other one-handed weapon, which deals 1-8 at most (not counting exotic one-handers like the bastard sword). Throw in WF and GWF, and Power Attack, and that's an extra +2 damage if you like. And yes, a Fighter could outdo you with a weapon. But without some mystical basis like the Monk's Ki, unarmed strikes are inferior to weapons. So this makes sense. A brawler-type should be able to out-perform an unspecialized fighter for damage with bare-hand strikes. But should not be able to outperform a fighter who devotes as much time to, say, a longsword as the brawler devotes to unarmed strikes.
Gilgiga of the Hunt
09-06-04, 01:57 PM Some Feats

Heart of Courage [general, Brawler]
You derive strength from your great courage.
Prerequisite: Small Size, Imporved Unarmed Strike, BAB +5.
Benifit: You detrimine damage for your unarmed strikes as though you were medium sized instead of small.
Normal:Small creatures deal less damage then medium sized creatures.

Focus Ki [Brawler]
You have become able to focus you body and mind together creating a leathal weapon.
Prerequisites: BAB +9, Concentration 7 ranks, Wis 13+, any Lawfull Alignment
Benefit You may now make Ki Strikes that allow you to buypass damage reduction as though they had a +1 enchantment bonus.

Improved Ki Focus [Brawler]
Prerequisites: BAB +11, Concentration 9 Ranks, Wis 13+, Alignment Any Lawfull, Focus Ki
BenefitYou may now buypass damage reduction with your unarmed strikes as though you had a +2 enchantment Bonus.

Greater Ki Focus [Brawler]
Prerequisites: BAB +15, Concentration 11 Ranks, Wis 13+, Alignment Any Lawfull, Focus Ki, Improved Ki Focus
Benefit: You gain the ablity to buypass DR with your unarmed strikes as though you had a +3 enchantment bonus.

Fit of Rage [Brawler]
You are capable of great feats of rage
Prerequisites BAB +5, Alingnment Any Chaotic
Benefit Once per day you can make a Barbain rage, as that class ablity.

Martial Training [general]
You are trained in the art of warfare.
Benefit You gain Martail Weapon Prof (all)
SpecialYou may only take this feat at first level

Against All Odds [General]
You seem to have imposible luck witch aids you in combat allowing you to overcome impposible odds.
BenefitOnce per day you may reroll any failed attack roll and use the new roll instead.
SpecialYou may take this feat multiple times. each time lets you use it an adtional once per day.
Gilgiga of the Hunt
09-06-04, 02:00 PM Why does he get increased unarmed strike damage? Why is he capable of dealing more damage with his bare hands than he can with, say, a Bastard Sword?

Note that it's not whether he can deal more damage than someone else can with a Bastard Sword that irks me. It's that he deals more damage than he himself could.

Monk-like improved damage reflects Ki-type energy boosting the attack. If you want to reflect training, giving the class free Weapon Specialization and GWS is how any other class would deal with that, along with WF and GWF if you like. If it's big, powerful whacks, giving the class free Power Attack works. If it's using their nimbleness to find a crack in the armor and nail it with a swift strike, then adjusting the Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike ability to add Dex bonus to damage would work.

But none of those reflect increasing the base damage[i] of the unarmed strike. And, in almost every case, a character like this should be capable of doing more damage wielding a metal pipe than he can with a punch.

And heck, if you get WS and GWS, you're doing 1d3+4 damage. That's 5-7 damage, which is on average [i]better than any other one-handed weapon, which deals 1-8 at most (not counting exotic one-handers like the bastard sword). Throw in WF and GWF, and Power Attack, and that's an extra +2 damage if you like. And yes, a Fighter could outdo you with a weapon. But without some mystical basis like the Monk's Ki, unarmed strikes are inferior to weapons. So this makes sense. A brawler-type should be able to out-perform an unspecialized fighter for damage with bare-hand strikes. But should not be able to outperform a fighter who devotes as much time to, say, a longsword as the brawler devotes to unarmed strikes.

I was worried about that argument from the get go. It could also be used to represent not just Ki but more say attacks in that short time period of the attack. Each attack is more like a flury of blows then say a single punch.
Probably a reduced inceased base damage is the way to go. Sieng as it's not nearly as powerfull as Ki, but still a potent amount of damage.
Thorak
09-06-04, 05:38 PM IMHO, instead of making a shortcut like improving the base damage die, figure out what you do want, and represent it using the standard methods D&D already has. As such;

Increased training/focus on bare-handed combat; WF, WS, GWF, GWS as free feats.

Hitting vulnerable spots when the opponent's disadvantaged/pressure points; Sneak Attack dice.

Hitting really hard; Strength, and Power Attack.

Etc. Or come up with your own mechanic; the Bando Warrior thread that's been around lately on this forum developed a unique Technique ability that works relatively well, and differently from anything D&D currently represents, both flavour-wise and rule-wise.

But increasing base damage implies that the weapon itself is becoming more damaging. Monks have Ki to represent this, your Brawler has nothing. If you want each attack to be a flurry of mini attacks, make it that. Give them Flurry or something. But that's not increasing base damage; their fists aren't inherently becoming more damaging as time goes on.
Gilgiga of the Hunt
09-06-04, 09:41 PM Yes, the Bando warror is very, very, cool. It's also verry, verry, complicated.
I had to read that class over several times before I understod it.
This one is just as you critized, a variant monk, nothing more nothing less. Other variant classes are seen all the time, urban rangers, a billion different types of sorcerer, etc. What is wrong with the variant monk?

The goal here was to make a monk class that looks more light the Fighter or Rogue in simplcity of it's structre. From an in game point of view if you want to blame the increased damage on Ki, go ahead.
Or you could blame it on just greater form, and tageting pressure points.
The idea was to reomve the restrictions of the Monk class and still keep an unarmed fighter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gilgiga of the Hunt 09-06-04, 03:08 AM	This is merely a rough draft, so it has alot of work to go. Most of the ideas are nowhere near final form so give a guy a hand and help balance the class. The goal here is to take the monk and give it much more role play room. I may turn some of the monk ablties into bonus feats so you can get a best of both worlds here. A better name would be apreceated too. So here's my take on the... Brawler http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/Tvictory.jpg The Towering Champion of the common people, an unarmed savage, a flashy pight fighter, a devout if gullable folower of a montastic order; each is an example of the Brawler. Lacking in the formal relgious training of the Monk they have not the ablity to work the near magic. However they are just a compitent if not more so on the field of combat. Often from the pesant class the Brawler is either without weapons due to necesity or choise. There is no typical Brawler, each one is unique in his or her own story. Adventures: Brawlers run the gammit for adventureing reasons, for honor, gold, respect, pristige. Some fight in grand colseiums where they are main attractions, others are lone masters of their art traing amongst monks in their temples. Charcteristics Like the monk their primary ablity is that of fighting unarmed. Over time they gain insight into new tricks, and hard core foucsing of the body enable them to strike harder then the sharpest sword. Brawlers tend to prefere large strikes that will unbalance and dislocate their foe. Unlike the Monk the Brawler is not impeded by armor, although rarely do they train in anything more then the lightest armors. Over time Brawlers gain a strange sort of restance to damage, some claim from damage to nervious system, others just out of raw stubborness. Alignment: Usualy of Lawfull alignment, as intinse training is required however this is just the norm. Frizied barbain warrors who fight without weapons or the Pit Fighter with no care for order can all be Brawlers. Relgion:Many brawlers folow montastic orders, others venerate Kord. Orcish brawlers often are called the Fists of Gruumsh. In acctuality no one relgion really has a monopoly over brawlers. Background: Brawlers are a diverse and mixed lot. Many claim ties to monistaries, often monk hopefulls but unable to master the mysitcal element. But even these are just a large minority. Often Brawlers are home grown or trained under a more powerfull and expernced (sometimes a true monk) master. Races: Brawlers are fairly common amongst all races, from Orc to Dwarf. Usualy someone has mastered the art of bieng able to hit someone better. Dwarvern Brawlers are notorious bar fighters and often renegades from Dwarven society living amongst other races. Orcish brawlers are primal warrors who forego weapons. Elves have turned unarmed combat into an art over their long years. Each taking centuires to master their art. Often mixing it with magic. Small Halfling and Gnomeish brawlers at times may seem pathetic but they work to use their small size to their advantage. Other Classes Brawlers often fit in better with other classes then their Monk Counterparts. The often seem less distant and more "human." Brawlers often get along well with fighters and enjoy shareing insights into their styles. Monks are usualy held in high regard by the Brawlers, as they are the undisputed masters in their field. Ablities: The physical stats of Strength, Dexterity, and Constituiton are the Barawlers staple. The mental stats are considerably less important, although a decent intelegence is recomended for access to the more defensive feats. Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silent, Proffesion, Swim, and Tumble. 4+int mod per level x4 at first level. BAB: As fighter Saves: Good Fortitude and Reflex Weapon and Armor Profecency: Brawlers are profecent in the use of all simple weapons, light armor, and buklers. Class Features Lvl/Features/Unarmed Strike Dam. Med/Small 1/Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple/ 1d4/ 1d3 2/ Uncanny dodge, Endurance/ 1d4/1d3 3/ Stunning Fist/ 1d4/1d3 4/ Bonus Feat/ 1d4/1d3 5/ Unbalanceing Strike/ 1d6/1d4 6/ Buypass Hardness/ 1d6/1d4 7/ Improved Uncanny Dodge/ 1d6/1d4 8/ Bonus Feat/ 1d6/1d4 9/ DR 1/-, Die Hard/ 1d8/1d6 10/ Greater Grapple/ 1d8/1d6 11/ Second Wind/ 1d8/1d6 12/ Bonus Feat /1d8/1d6 13/ DR 2/- /1d10/1d8 14/ Greater Buypass Hardness / 1d10/1d8 15/ Mighty Critical / 1d10/1d8 16/ Bonus Feat/ 1d10/1d8 17/ Hurtleing Strike/ 1d12/ 1d10 18/ DR 3/- / 1d12 /1d10 19/ Strike of Death/ 1d12/1d10 20/ Bonus Feat/ 1d12/ 1d10 Features: Unarmed Strike: At first level the Brawler gains the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat and you deal leathal damage with your strikes, this damage increases over time. At any time you may opt to deal subdual damage instead. Improved Grapple: The Brawler also gains the Impproved Grapple feat for free at first level. Uncanny Dodge At second level the Brawler can react to danger before his senses could normaly react and is never caught flat footed. At seventh level the Brawler can no longer be flanked. Thus deneying his enemy a flanking bonus, and Rogues can not sneak attack him unless the rogue is four levels higher. Endurance Due to the rigorious training that brawlers go through they gain the Endurance feat at second level. Stunning Fist: At third Level the Brawler gains the stunning fist feat for free. Bonus Feat at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 level the Brawler gains an extra feat (list below) Unbalanceing Strike The Brawler may spend a full round action to make a meele touch attack, if sucssefull the target must make a Balance check (DC = Attack Roll) or be knocked prone. Dwarves add their stablity bonus to this roll. Buypass Hardness At 6th level the Brawler ignores an amount of Hardness on his unarmed strikes against objects equal to his Con Modifer. At 14th level this increases to twice the con modifer. Damage ReductionStarting at nineth level the Brawler gains the ablity to ignore some amount of damage this starts of as Damage Reduction 1/- at nineth level then increases to 2/- at 13th and 3/- at 18th. Die Hard At nineth level the Brawler gains the Die Hard feat for free. Greater Grapple At 10th level the Brawler becomes adept at the art of the grapple and is considered one size larger than normal for deterimineing their grapple bonus. Second WindAt eleventh level the brawler can recover from horrendious amounts of damge by spending a standard action the brawler can regain his Brawler Level + his Con Modifer in hp once per day. Mighty Crititcal At fifteenth level the crit multipler on the Barawler's unarmed strikes is increased to x3 Hurtleing Strike At seventeenth level the Brawler may make a hurleing strike by takeing a full round action. The brawler then makes a meele touch attack against a foe. If sucesfull the barwler makes a Strength Check (DC 10) For every 5 by witch this check was beat the target is flown back 5 feet and prone. A Balance check (DC attack roll) can negate this part, Dwarves add stablity. Strike of Death At nineteenth level the Brawler can spend a full action to make an attack roll targeting a fatal pressure point. If sucessfull the target must make a Fort Save DC 10+Brawler Level + Str Mod or die. Bonus Feat List Armor Prof (Med and Heavy), Blind Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Moblity, Spring Attack, Whirlwind, Exotic Weapon Prof, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Critical, Defelct Arrows, Martial Weapon Prof, Power Attack, Cleave, Sunder, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Run, Sheild Prof, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization Oh, and anyone wonna show me how to make one of those cute little tables, for the readers sake. Edit 1: Reduced damage to show increase in power and skill but still weaker then Ki. Replaced silly falling strike with Second Wind.
Thorak 09-06-04, 01:00 PM	Why does he get increased unarmed strike damage? Why is he capable of dealing more damage with his bare hands than he can with, say, a Bastard Sword? Note that it's not whether he can deal more damage than someone else can with a Bastard Sword that irks me. It's that he deals more damage than he himself could. Monk-like improved damage reflects Ki-type energy boosting the attack. If you want to reflect training, giving the class free Weapon Specialization and GWS is how any other class would deal with that, along with WF and GWF if you like. If it's big, powerful whacks, giving the class free Power Attack works. If it's using their nimbleness to find a crack in the armor and nail it with a swift strike, then adjusting the Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike ability to add Dex bonus to damage would work. But none of those reflect increasing the base damage[i] of the unarmed strike. And, in almost every case, a character like this should be capable of doing more damage wielding a metal pipe than he can with a punch. And heck, if you get WS and GWS, you're doing 1d3+4 damage. That's 5-7 damage, which is on average [i]better than any other one-handed weapon, which deals 1-8 at most (not counting exotic one-handers like the bastard sword). Throw in WF and GWF, and Power Attack, and that's an extra +2 damage if you like. And yes, a Fighter could outdo you with a weapon. But without some mystical basis like the Monk's Ki, unarmed strikes are inferior to weapons. So this makes sense. A brawler-type should be able to out-perform an unspecialized fighter for damage with bare-hand strikes. But should not be able to outperform a fighter who devotes as much time to, say, a longsword as the brawler devotes to unarmed strikes.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 09-06-04, 01:57 PM	Some Feats Heart of Courage [general, Brawler] You derive strength from your great courage. Prerequisite: Small Size, Imporved Unarmed Strike, BAB +5. Benifit: You detrimine damage for your unarmed strikes as though you were medium sized instead of small. Normal:Small creatures deal less damage then medium sized creatures. Focus Ki [Brawler] You have become able to focus you body and mind together creating a leathal weapon. Prerequisites: BAB +9, Concentration 7 ranks, Wis 13+, any Lawfull Alignment Benefit You may now make Ki Strikes that allow you to buypass damage reduction as though they had a +1 enchantment bonus. Improved Ki Focus [Brawler] Prerequisites: BAB +11, Concentration 9 Ranks, Wis 13+, Alignment Any Lawfull, Focus Ki BenefitYou may now buypass damage reduction with your unarmed strikes as though you had a +2 enchantment Bonus. Greater Ki Focus [Brawler] Prerequisites: BAB +15, Concentration 11 Ranks, Wis 13+, Alignment Any Lawfull, Focus Ki, Improved Ki Focus Benefit: You gain the ablity to buypass DR with your unarmed strikes as though you had a +3 enchantment bonus. Fit of Rage [Brawler] You are capable of great feats of rage Prerequisites BAB +5, Alingnment Any Chaotic Benefit Once per day you can make a Barbain rage, as that class ablity. Martial Training [general] You are trained in the art of warfare. Benefit You gain Martail Weapon Prof (all) SpecialYou may only take this feat at first level Against All Odds [General] You seem to have imposible luck witch aids you in combat allowing you to overcome impposible odds. BenefitOnce per day you may reroll any failed attack roll and use the new roll instead. SpecialYou may take this feat multiple times. each time lets you use it an adtional once per day.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 09-06-04, 02:00 PM	Why does he get increased unarmed strike damage? Why is he capable of dealing more damage with his bare hands than he can with, say, a Bastard Sword? Note that it's not whether he can deal more damage than someone else can with a Bastard Sword that irks me. It's that he deals more damage than he himself could. Monk-like improved damage reflects Ki-type energy boosting the attack. If you want to reflect training, giving the class free Weapon Specialization and GWS is how any other class would deal with that, along with WF and GWF if you like. If it's big, powerful whacks, giving the class free Power Attack works. If it's using their nimbleness to find a crack in the armor and nail it with a swift strike, then adjusting the Swashbuckler's Insightful Strike ability to add Dex bonus to damage would work. But none of those reflect increasing the base damage[i] of the unarmed strike. And, in almost every case, a character like this should be capable of doing more damage wielding a metal pipe than he can with a punch. And heck, if you get WS and GWS, you're doing 1d3+4 damage. That's 5-7 damage, which is on average [i]better than any other one-handed weapon, which deals 1-8 at most (not counting exotic one-handers like the bastard sword). Throw in WF and GWF, and Power Attack, and that's an extra +2 damage if you like. And yes, a Fighter could outdo you with a weapon. But without some mystical basis like the Monk's Ki, unarmed strikes are inferior to weapons. So this makes sense. A brawler-type should be able to out-perform an unspecialized fighter for damage with bare-hand strikes. But should not be able to outperform a fighter who devotes as much time to, say, a longsword as the brawler devotes to unarmed strikes. I was worried about that argument from the get go. It could also be used to represent not just Ki but more say attacks in that short time period of the attack. Each attack is more like a flury of blows then say a single punch. Probably a reduced inceased base damage is the way to go. Sieng as it's not nearly as powerfull as Ki, but still a potent amount of damage.
Thorak 09-06-04, 05:38 PM	IMHO, instead of making a shortcut like improving the base damage die, figure out what you do want, and represent it using the standard methods D&D already has. As such; Increased training/focus on bare-handed combat; WF, WS, GWF, GWS as free feats. Hitting vulnerable spots when the opponent's disadvantaged/pressure points; Sneak Attack dice. Hitting really hard; Strength, and Power Attack. Etc. Or come up with your own mechanic; the Bando Warrior thread that's been around lately on this forum developed a unique Technique ability that works relatively well, and differently from anything D&D currently represents, both flavour-wise and rule-wise. But increasing base damage implies that the weapon itself is becoming more damaging. Monks have Ki to represent this, your Brawler has nothing. If you want each attack to be a flurry of mini attacks, make it that. Give them Flurry or something. But that's not increasing base damage; their fists aren't inherently becoming more damaging as time goes on.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 09-06-04, 09:41 PM	Yes, the Bando warror is very, very, cool. It's also verry, verry, complicated. I had to read that class over several times before I understod it. This one is just as you critized, a variant monk, nothing more nothing less. Other variant classes are seen all the time, urban rangers, a billion different types of sorcerer, etc. What is wrong with the variant monk? The goal here was to make a monk class that looks more light the Fighter or Rogue in simplcity of it's structre. From an in game point of view if you want to blame the increased damage on Ki, go ahead. Or you could blame it on just greater form, and tageting pressure points. The idea was to reomve the restrictions of the Monk class and still keep an unarmed fighter.