Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SmiloDan 11-03-03, 04:09 PM	The Brawler is a boxer, pugilist, and unarmed warrior that lacks the discipline of the monk. Base Attack Bonus: +1 per level. Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflex. Hit Dice: 1d10. Class Skills: Balance (Dex)*, Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex)*, Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str)*, Profession (Wis), Swim (Str)**, Tumble (Dex)*. Skill Points at First Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Brawlers are proficient in gauntlets. They are not proficient in any armor. Level Ability 1. Dodge +1, Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry, 2. Uncanny Dodge 3. Extra Dodge +2 4. Bonus Feat 5. Extra Dodge +3 6. Improved Uncanny Dodge. 7. Extra Dodge +4 8. Bonus Feat 9. Extra Dodge +5 10. Damage Reduction 1/- 11. Extra Dodge +6 12. Bonus Feat 13. Extra Dodge +7 14. Damage Reduction 2/- 15. Extra Dodge +8 16. Bonus Feat 17. Extra Dodge +9 18. Damage Reduction 3/- 19. Extra Dodge +10 20. Bonus Feat. Dodge. This is a bonus feat. Extra Dodge. The Brawler learns to dodge a single opponent more and more as he advances in level. His Dodge Bonus to AC increases to the listed amount at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19. This Extra Dodge bonus only applies against a single opponent as designated by the Brawler. A Brawler cannot use Extra Dodge if wearing armor or using a shield. Improved Unarmed Strike. This is a bonus feat. The Damage of the Brawler's Unarmed Strike is 1d4 at level 1. It increases to 1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 10th, 1d10 at 15, 2d6 at 20th. A Brawler can apply his unarmed damage to gauntlet attacks as well. Flurry. The Brawler can get an extra attack when taking the Full Attack Action. All attacks suffer a -2 to hit. A Brawler cannot Flurry if wearing any armor or using a shield. Bonus Feats: Blindfight, Combat Expertise (Improved Feint, Improved Trip), Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Mobility (Spring Attack), Power Attack (Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun), Toughness, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus--Unarmed Strike (Weapon Specialization, Improved Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization). A Brawler loses the Extra Dodge bonus to AC, his ability to Flurry, and his Uncanny Dodge ability if he wears any armor or uses a shield. [edit] I made changes to clarify that Extra Dodge only works against a single opponent in melee, and that an armored Brawler loses his Extra Dodge, Uncanny Dodge, and ability to Flurry if wearing any armor or using a shield.
gerreld terrent 11-04-03, 01:15 AM	nice this is a class that need to be considered many examples come to mind in the fantasy genre Silk from the belgariad for example wasnt a monktype but he was very dangerous unarmed,the same goes for Sherlock Holmes concidered by many to be a master of the fistecuffs i like the calss at teh core but have you concidered when you give him a bonus feat you could come up with some feat like special abilities that would consitute a fighting style such as grapleing or pressure point but i dont know if you are interested i could help you come up with some i love doing this sort of thing Thanks Gerrled Terrent
SmiloDan 11-05-03, 08:18 AM	Thanks for the input. I threw this all together without my books, so it is probably missing a lot of crucial details.
Asi the red 11-11-03, 04:17 AM	Hey ya'. Does the Brawler get a corresponding increase in the damage when he uses gauntlets or is it only when unarmed? I know it says Unarmed, but a increase in the gauntlet dam. would make sense. My Problem is this: Better hit die than fighter. Better saves than Fighter. Skills like Fighter. BAB like Fighter. Flurry of Blows like Monk. Uncanny Dodge, assuming, like the Rogue. Bonus feats occasionally. Damage is eventually as good as the fighter. Brawler cannot compare to Fighter until 10th when the damage actually catches up. Why be a fighter except that at low levels your damage would be better? At a high level the Brawler would be a superior melee combatant and... Just realized that the Brawler has Absolutely no ranged attacks. That definitely helps the balancing. OK, my opinion: Brawling is inaccurate. BAB = level -1. Not much but it helps. To compensate for low damage keep the low levels as is, but slow down the Bonus Feats at higher levels. Maybe take one out. Every class should have a level where they get no class ability. Maybe no Bonus Feat at level 12. Can they wear armor. They don't start as proficient, but they could become proficient. If they do, do they get the extra unarmed damage? Perhaps take out some of the Dodge and give them an additional unarmed attack damage increase. 1- 1d4 4- 1d6 9- 1d8 14- 1d10 19- 2d6 and cap the Dodge bonus at +8 at 15th level. Those are my ideas. Asi the Red, Signing Off.
Bait the Bard 11-11-03, 04:39 AM	IMO, this class is overpowered (just being constructive). - they have the better HD than the fighter - their dodge is better than the monks bonuses (I know they don't get it when suprised) - they get damage reduction - some bonus feats - and flurry of blows Essentally, they gain two of the 3 best aspects of the barbarian, the increased unarmed damge of the monk, uncanny dodge, and their dodge feats, as well as the occasional bonus feats. What are they losing on? Some might argue that no armor and weapon proficencies are the balance, but to an unarmed combatant with dodge bonuses this does not mean much. They are not as good as a monk in unarmed combat; yet they gain bonus feats and damage reduction. While I like the idea this class is based on, IMHO it is to powerful. I would suggest toning down the dodge bonuses and reducing their hit die to d10, as well as some other minor tweaking where needed. Hope that didn't sound too mean:angel: - the annoying bard
SmiloDan 11-11-03, 08:42 AM	Thanks for all the constructive criticism. Maybe a reduction of the HD to 1d10 would be warranted. One thing I should point out, is that the Dodge bonus only applies against a single opponent as designated by the Brawler. Against a second (or third, fourth, etc.) opponent, his AC would just be his normal AC based on Dex. I should also add that his Flurry, Dodge, Uncanny Dodge, etc., only works if he is unarmored. Now does it seem balanced? I want to keep the good Fortitude and Reflex saves because I picture a boxer as both tough and quick.
Thelon Fairblade 11-11-03, 12:46 PM	Incidentally, while the brawler is not proficient in armor, nothing prevents him from dipping into fighter, putting on Heavy Armor, and having all his class abilities in addition to a nice +8 to AC....
PhaedrusXY 11-11-03, 12:57 PM	There is a prestige class much like what you are doing here in the Unapproachable East book called the Shou Disciple. It's someone who's had some training in unarmed combat, but isn't as dedicated to spiritual perfection as a monk is. I'm not sure if you based your class off of that, or if it is just similar thinking on your part and the designers of it. It is only five levels, but winds up adding alot of the same things that your class does.
SmiloDan 11-11-03, 01:27 PM	Thelon--if the Brawler wears heavy armor, he cannot use his Dodge, Flurry, or Uncanny Dodge. Those abilities only function when unarmored. Hopefully, that balances it out some.
Asi the red 11-11-03, 07:24 PM	Hey ya'. Cleared up the wearing armor part mostly but, does the Brawler keep the unarmed damage when wearing armor. If he looses all the other stuff the damage alone won't save him, but I'd like to know. I was going to comment on the fact that dodge only goes to one guy and then I read all the new posts, so nothing there. Maybe cutting down on the selectable bonus feats? Don't know which ones though, I'll leave that for a more intelligent individual. Ais the Red.
SmiloDan 11-12-03, 08:29 AM	I think the unarmed damage should still apply, even if armored. That seems pretty "realistic." I'd like to keep a good selection of bonus feats, since this guy isn't really good for anything but fighting in melee.
Lawless 11-12-03, 08:48 AM	You might want to check out Dragon #310, it has a pugilist fighter class 'kit' which would probably go along the lines of what you're looking to do. What you have is good, but I agree it is definitely overpowered.
Lawless 11-12-03, 08:48 AM	You might want to check out Dragon #310, it has a pugilist fighter class 'kit' which would probably go along the lines of what you're looking to do. What you have is good, but I agree it is definitely overpowered.
Thelon Fairblade 11-12-03, 09:10 AM	Also, edit the original message to reflect changes you make (like stating that the Dodge bonuses only function if unarmored).
SmiloDan 11-12-03, 09:23 AM	Thanks Thelon. I also changed the increased dodge bonuses at levels 3-19 to Extra Dodge.