Post/Author/DateTime	Post
amireallythatcrazy 10-03-07, 05:17 PM	This is my first time posting a base class, so please bear with me. http://www.maps4heroes.com/heroes5/pictures/fortress/units/Brawler.jpg HD-D10,Full BAB (like a fighter), 2 skill points/lvl, fighter class skills, good fort/ref saves, bad will save, Proficient with no armor and weapons Class skills 1-Monk unarmed damage, throw 1d6 2-Tough as nails(constitution to AC) 3-Throw 2d6 4-Dr 1/-, Great dualist 5-Throw 3d6, throw +2 sizes 6- 7-Throw 4d6, Tough as Nails (con+1/4 lvl to AC) 8-Dr 2/- 9-Throw 5d6, Second Wind (Lvl+Con) 10-Evasion, throw+3 sizes 11-Throw 6d6 12-Dr 3/- 13-Throw 7d6 14-Second wind ((lvl+con)x2) 15-Throw 8d6, throw +4 sizes 16-Dr 4/- 17-Throw 9d6 18-Tough as Nails (Con+1/2Lvl to AC) 19-Throw 10d6, Imp Evasion 20-Dr 5/-, Throw +5 sizes ALL CLASS FEATURES IN NO ARMOR!!!!!! Monk unarmed Damage- Deals unarmed damage as a monk of equal lvl.He can also gain fighter only feats for his fists. Throw- A brawler is trained to turn his fores into missile weapons. he can make a trip attempt against any foe within his reach with a +4 bonus. if he succeeds he can throw them 5ft for every point he beats their trip attempt by. if an opponent attempts to trip the brawler and fails, you can react with a throw instead of a trip. you can place a thrown opponent in the square another creature currently occupies. a foe takes listed damage when thrown, as does any creature in the space you place the thrown creature, if you succeed in a ranged touch attack against them. any foe damaged by this attack is also made prone by it. You creatures can throw up to one size larger than you until lvl 5. Tough as nails- a brawler fights in no armor but his natural toughness allows him to ignore blows that would fell others. he adds his Con bonus, and later on a fraction of his brawler lvl, to his AC. Dr- A brawler can ignore minor blows. He gains DR. Great Pugilist- If a braawler attempts a throw and fails, he cannot be tripped/ thrown by his foe unless they are a brawler 4 lvls higher than him. Second Wind- A number of times a day equal to your Con bonus you can add the listed amount to your total hit points as a full round action that does not provoke an attack of oportunity. (For clarity's sake, it heals HP) Evasion-A brawler gains Evasion/Improved Evasion as a rogue. Please tell me if it is overpowered or underpowered!
Rune_Master 10-03-07, 05:43 PM	It is overpowered. I would recommend that you change: HD - d10 or d8 BAB - Monk (not Flurry of blows BAB) Proficiencies - Simple Weapons only (might consider light armor) And take a look at the reaping mauler prestige class in the complete warrior book :drool:. Try making it into a full class (just a suggestion). Other wise id play it, nice work :ayyyy!:.
amireallythatcrazy 10-03-07, 05:54 PM	Edited to D10 hit die and simple weapon proficiencies, thanks for the input !
vorpo 10-03-07, 08:03 PM	Throw at +2 sizes is ok, but beyond that doesn't make much sense. Throwing distance is also too far for target sizes larger than you are. Throw damage progression should be alter to match the progression of warlock's EB progression (9d6 at lvl 20). Reasoning: rogue's sneak attack can only be used when conditions are met (thus might not be able to do so every round). Your throw can be used whenever you want (by initiating the trip). Note that trip does provoke AoO. As a class focusing on throwing/tripping, you should grant it Improved Trip feat early on and push some of the abilities to later lvls I agree with RM that it should have 3/4 BAB not full BAB. 2nd wind adds to many HP IMO. It SHOULD provoke AoO as it's a non-threatening move and it probably requires concentration. HP added should be temperary and should last maybe 10 rounds. Still broken with that tho. Instead, I'd suggest to have it HEAL dmg at 1/2 lvl+ con at 9th and lvl + con at lvl 14.
ff7hero 10-04-07, 06:20 PM	Ok, this is the author of the class posting...amireallythatcrazy posted this here for me... First a couple corrections: Second Wind is only once per day, Second Wind heals HP, and Great Duelist should be Great Pugilist, seriously AIRTC, why? To Rune_Master: I agree that the HD should be d10, but I think the BAB should remain as is, because a Cleric with Persistant Spell and Divine Power(Might? Something like that...) is still much better. He doesn't use weapons or armor, so he doesn't need proficiency. It would be like giving the Monk light armor proficiency. I've seen Reaping Mauler. It's nice, but not the same. To vorpo: Throw at larger sizes makes as much sense as a Fighter with Weapon Supremacy (Longbow) using a Longbow in a grapple, it's called High Fantasy. As far as damage progression goes, the throw can be used far less often that a Warlock's EB, since it doesn't have range. And I purposefully didn't give him Improved Trip, he can take it as a normal feat, and it works with throws, but it didn't make sense to give it to him as a bonus. I've addressed the Full BAB issue already. Second Wind does heal, that was a typo. Since it can only be used once per day, and even with a 20 con+5 from levels+6 form a magic item is 102 HP at 20th level. But it's only once per day, nothing compared to a Cleric of similar level. Thanks for the feedback, would love some more!
vorpo 10-04-07, 06:54 PM	First a couple corrections: Second Wind is only once per day, Second Wind heals HP, and Great Duelist should be Great Pugilist, seriously AIRTC, why? To vorpo: Throw at larger sizes makes as much sense as a Fighter with Weapon Supremacy (Longbow) using a Longbow in a grapple, it's called High Fantasy. As far as damage progression goes, the throw can be used far less often that a Warlock's EB, since it doesn't have range. And I purposefully didn't give him Improved Trip, he can take it as a normal feat, and it works with throws, but it didn't make sense to give it to him as a bonus. I've addressed the Full BAB issue already. Second Wind does heal, that was a typo. Since it can only be used once per day, and even with a 20 con+5 from levels+6 form a magic item is 102 HP at 20th level. But it's only once per day, nothing compared to a Cleric of similar level. I just have a very hard time visualizing a gnome throwing wyrm red dragon. The throw should be more refined that way. Bipeds are easier to throw (to unbalance) than quadrupeds or however-many-more-legs-peds. Give penalty to that maybe. Give the character a unique ability that ACTS like having improved trip feat when throwing? If it's once per day, 2nd wind might be ok I guess. But pls address the issue if the dmg healed is over the hp limit. Does the excess become temp hp or simply lost?
ff7hero 10-04-07, 07:05 PM	Bipeds are harder to trip. From the SRD: The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. Think of Improved Trip as a Brawler's equivilant of Natural Spell. Sure it gives a Brawler huge bonuses, and you'd be crazy to be a Brawler without IT, but it's still outside the normal training for a Brawler. I thought that it was understood that any amount healed over your Max HP did nothing...
vorpo 10-04-07, 07:10 PM	Bipeds are harder to trip. From the SRD: The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. no, that line shows bipeds are easier to trip. Gnome throwing a red dragon, the red dragon would be the defender that gets the +4 bonus since it has 4 legs. I thought that it was understood that any amount healed over your Max HP did nothing... Some healing causes excess points to become temp HP. So it should be more clear in the original statement.
ff7hero 10-04-07, 07:23 PM	Erm, I meant quadrupeds...stupid typos.
PoorHobo 10-05-07, 12:38 AM	Boring Class. Its a one trick pony, it trips then throws, trips then throws, trips then throws. Furthermore you can't really approximate too many chracter concepts either, a big guy who throw things. Throw is a neat mechanic but its not a subtitute for 20 levels of class abilitites. This is a prestige class.
ff7hero 10-05-07, 02:28 PM	It's as much a one trick pony as a Rouge or a Fighter...
vorpo 10-05-07, 02:39 PM	It's as much a one trick pony as a Rouge or a Fighter... Well, fighters do have many more combat options with that many feats (especially if using many tactical ones.). I cannot argue with rogues, but that's only if in combat. Rogues are far more versatile outside combat than most other melee chars.
ff7hero 10-05-07, 05:57 PM	But an efficient Fighter build usually needs to focus on two feat trees, and one of them is almost always the Weapon Focus tree. and what about what about the Barbarian? or, to a lesser extent, the Paladin/Ranger? Non-ToB Melee classes tend to be one trick ponies.
vorpo 10-05-07, 05:59 PM	I guess PoorHobo doesn't think of swing his sword left to right and right to left as one trick :P
amireallythatcrazy 10-07-07, 04:45 PM	Edited Again, fixed typing errors on my part and took away weapon proficiencies. thanks ff7hero:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
ff7hero 10-15-07, 07:43 PM	Here's some fluff for ya: "You learned your skill in a secluded monastery, I learned mine on the hard streets."-Marik, a brawler to a monk Anyone can pick up a sword and use it to slay a foe, but it takes real mettle to use your own body as a weapon. Some schools of martial thought preach that strengthening the mind is required to strengthen the body as a weapon, but the Brawler doesn't see the need, physical training has always been all he needed. He has trained himself to turn his opponents into human (or orc) missiles. Some turn their training to the protection of the weak and innocent, but others love nothing more than the feeling of slamming their battle-hardened fists into a do-gooder's skull. Adventures: Brawlers who hear the call of the road see adventures as a means to sharpen the weapons that are their bodies. Some have patrons, lords who pay them as warriors, and others travel from place to place as a sell-fist. Others are more noble and use their abilities to protect those who can't protect themselves. Characteristics: Brawlers use their bodies as weapons. Unlike the frailer monk, they have the ability to go toe-to-toe with any other Melee class. Some will focus on Fighter Only feats like Weapon Specialization for their fists, and others will focus on feats that improve their hardiness or ability to Throw. All Brawlers have the ability to Throw an opponent, a strategic move that can move, injure, and knock a foe prone. Alignment: Brawlers can be of any alignment, from Paladin like holyness, to evil matched only by the oldest Liches, Brawlers come in all colors. More Brawlers are chaotic than lawful, but exceptions are not incredibly uncommon. Religion: Brawlers don't have an established Diety, many worship Kord for his promotion of strength, while others worship a Diety based on their race. Background: Most Brawlers are trained in informal ways, the streets taught them all the lessens they needed to learn. Of course, some are trained in more formal ways, and those are the ones most likely to become lawful. Races: Human Brawlers are often street-tough types who gained their knowledge of combat through constant testing and practice. Dwarven Brawlers are typically outcasts from their traditional warrior societies, maybe all Dwarven Brawlers are members of one specific clan that teaches only the combat practices of this class. Elves and half-elves rarely become Brawlers and those who do are typically viewed in a negative light by others of their race. Half-Orcs very often become Brawlers, having grown up in naturally toughening situations. Halfling and Gnome Brawlers have a major disadvantage due to their size affecting their ability to throw and their Unarmed Damage, but those who do might want to focus on increasing their AC and Dodging most attacks. Other Classes: Brawlers are the big toughies, and they respect those who try to hold the front, whether or not they do it in cased in metal. They see Rouges and Bards as sneaky, albeit useful, companions, and they value the support that Arcanists and Divine Spellcasters supply.