Breath Cannon Character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breath Cannon Character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elemental_Elf
01-19-06, 05:52 AM What class combinations would yeild the best possible Breath Weapon attack(s)? Assuming, of course, the base race does not inherently have a Breath Weapon.

I was think somethng along the lines of Sorcerer with Draconic Heratage and Draconic Breath Feats, atleast 3 levels of Dragon Disciple and Dragon Samurai with maybe 3 levels as well. The rest of the levels would be taken by Sorcerer levels.

I'm looking for the best Breath Cannon we can get, even if that 'Cannon' only has 1 super charged shot.
Seeker of Undeath
01-19-06, 05:59 AM What class combinations would yeild the best possible Breath Weapon attack(s)? Assuming, of course, the base race does not inherently have a Breath Weapon.

I was think somethng along the lines of Sorcerer with Draconic Heratage and Draconic Breath Feats, atleast 3 levels of Dragon Disciple and Dragon Samurai with maybe 3 levels as well. The rest of the levels would be taken by Sorcerer levels.

I'm looking for the best Breath Cannon we can get, even if that 'Cannon' only has 1 super charged shot.Well a Human Sorcerer10/DragonheartMage10 could burn a 9th-level spell slot for a 27d6 breath attack. There'd be no wait time for a second shot either. There are also a lot of spells that modify breath weapons in the Spell Compendium. I particularly like the energy substitution, ethereal, and enervating modifiers. Most, if not all, have a casting time of 1 swift action.

I think that's a start.
Elemental_Elf
01-19-06, 01:07 PM Interesting. Where is the Dragonheart Mage from? He's not in the PrC Index..
Xabre
01-19-06, 02:33 PM Dragonheart Mage is new, from Races of the Dragon. It's a really powerful spellcasting class, especially when you figure you never need to take an attack spell after 6th levle, because you can convert even Identify into a gout of energy.

The only problem, of course, comes from the fact that you must pick one energy type, and hope you never come across something with immunity.

In the same book is also the Dragonborn race... which is not quite a race, and not quite a template... really, an existing character that worships the Dragon god bahamut can sacrifice most of his racial traits, and gain the Dragonborn traits. One of the abilities you can choose when you do this is a breath weapon, unlimited use, with a 1d4 recharge rate (qualifying you for metabreath feats).

I also just yesterday posted a prestige class in the PrC board called (tenatively) the Metabreather. I'm still trying to get feedback on if it's too powerful or not.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
01-19-06, 05:10 PM Personally, I recommend Breath Admixture (double your breath weapon's damage) and Animate Breath. And as a feat, Maximize Breath. Mind you, you'll first need a Breath Weapon.

And if you want to keep with a theme, try a Draconic Ray sorcerer. It's a variant class, and it exchanges the ability to have a familiar for the ability to use a Draconic Ray (1 a day at first level, with increasing usages with advancement). A Draconic Ray deals energy damage based on the dragon you're affiliated with, and then a second effect. The metallic dragons give you a version of their secondary breath weapons. But to keep with your hard-hitter plan, I recommend Blue (deals extra damage from non-lethal dehydration), or Red (sets you on fire, so you take a few more points of damage for a few rounds).

In fact, being a Draconic Ray Sorcerer rather than a regular Sorcerer might explain in RPing terms why you chose to become a Dragon Ascendant.

P.S.

Half-Dragon Paragorn gives you extra Breath Weapon usages.
Apollo's Lyre
01-19-06, 06:08 PM Umm... What book are the metabreath feats in?
Xabre
01-19-06, 07:06 PM You know what I find funny about this thread?

We're all talking about something different.

Here are all the different methods you can use, as far as I can think of, to build a 'breather'.

1. Dragonborn of Bahamut with Aspect of Heart. This gives you a breath weapon line of changable energy, 5' per level, 1d8 + 1d8 per 3 levels of damage. It's unlimited use, but 1d4 rounds in between. You can apply Metabreath feats to this effect.

2. A sorcerer with Draconic Heritage and Draconic Breath. This character is taking all of his Sorcerer spells, and converting them into either a 30' cone or a 60' line of a single energy type, chosen when you take the Heritage feat. You can NOT upgrade the Breath powers of this feat using Metabreath feats because there's no recharge time before uses. You COULD use Metabreath Spells, if you quickened the Metabreath so it could go off the same time you used the Draconic Breath.

2b. To a greater Extent, taking the Dragonheart Mage increases the power that the Draconic Breath feat does. You could end up with a 27d6 blast of breath at 20th level.

3. A Half Dragon gets a breath weapon once per day. Level 3 in Half-Dragon paragon ups that to 3/day. If you're a Half-Dragon and you have 6 hit dice, the feat 'Dragon Breath' gives you unlimited uses, with a 1d4 recharge time. Perhaps Level 3 of Half-Dragon Paragon will change and give the feat instead? Either way, once you have more than one use per day, you can apply Metabreath feats, and Metabreath Spells.

4. The Master Transmografist and other similiar builds use heavy Polymorphing, to allow you to turn into a Dragon. There is a thread in the Character Optimization board that was all about using Draconic Polymorph, and/or the Dragon Breath spell (since there are so many uses of this term) to apply lots of Metabreath feats.

In my opinion, the Dragonborn or the Half-Dragon with the Dragonbreath feat are probably your best bet for a 'Breath Cannon'.

Personally, I would suggest the following build to make a super breather:

Dragonborn of Bahamut w/ Aspect of Heart

Sorcerer 10 (use Dragonblood Sorcerer racial sub level 1, if nothing else)/Dragonheart Mage 10.

Take as many Metabreath Feats as you can. For your free Draconic Feats out of Dragonheart Mage, I'd suggest Skin, Resistance, and Arcane Grace, as these are all defense properties, and you're gonna need as many 'extra' defensive bonuses as you can get.

Take the feat Ability Focus (Breath Weapon). This SHOULD count towards both the Dragonborn Breath Weapon, and the Dragonic Breath breath weapons.

Choose a dragon for Draconic Heritage that is one of the 'unusual' energy types, such as Force, Light, or Sonic... as the Dragonborn can choose the more common energy types for its breath weapon. This way if you SOMEHOW come up against something very strange, you have your Draconic Breath. If your DM lets you, RUN for Amethyst or Radiant or one of those that gives you a Force breath weapon. Force hits incorpreal.

You should have, now, 6 additional feats. Heritage was free with the Dragonblood sorcerer level, and Breath is free. Take 6 Metabreath Feats, and make sure one of them is the one that lowers your rest time between breaths. If you're allowed, take some Flaws to gain even more feats.

Obviously, the fast majority of your spells should be Metabreath Spells.

While you can only cast a single Metabreath spell per turn, you can, if you so desire, wire EVERY metabreath feat together into a single blast, and then wait about 10 rounds before you can breath again. While you're waiting, use some extra spell slots to throw around 'normal' breaths from Draconic Breath.

There you go... the best Breath Cannon I can think of, without getting into the absolute nitty gritty specifics.

Btw, for the person who asked, Metabreath Feats and Metabreath Spells are both in Draconomicon. Races of the Dragon has a few other Breath feats, but they aren't as potent.
Munchmausen
01-20-06, 12:03 PM Well, here are a couple options:

Dissolving Spittle Incarnate. Sadly, it's only acid damage and only one target, so there's not a lot of flexibility. On the plus side, it's pretty good damage and available at level 1.

Totemist - Lammasu Mantle gives you a respectable cone of fire starting at level 2. Around level 14 or so, you get access to lines of lightning and acid as well.

Warlock - Eldritch blast out your mouth.

All of these builds involve nigh-unlimited uses per day of the abilities (only limited by the number of rounds in a day).
Xabre
01-20-06, 12:09 PM Here's a good Blaster Build, as mentioned earlier. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=572271)
Elemental_Elf
01-20-06, 12:55 PM Warlock - Eldritch blast out your mouth.

That's creepy and cool, lol.

~~~

Xabre: Wow your build is really cool. Thanx for all the help ^_^ :bow:
Xabre
01-20-06, 01:00 PM Hell, I'm tempted to play that one myself, after building it. But, much like a Warlock blaster, I'm worried that it's too one-trick. Of course, because of how BAROKEN the Dragonborn can be with Aspect of Heart.... You really never need an attack spell, so it canbe much more versatile than most sorcerers.
Elemental_Elf
01-20-06, 01:07 PM Hell, I'm tempted to play that one myself, after building it. But, much like a Warlock blaster, I'm worried that it's too one-trick. Of course, because of how BAROKEN the Dragonborn can be with Aspect of Heart.... You really never need an attack spell, so it canbe much more versatile than most sorcerers.

Yeah most definitely ^_^

I see the class as being pretty versatile, It all depends on how you play the character. You could use him like a complete Defensive or complete out of combat mage then use your Breathe weapons when the need arises. Hell you'll slaughter so many people just with your Breathe, the party should warship you as a Hero, lol.

Do any of those PrCs have UMD as a class skill? If so then you have all the versatility you'll ever need. :D
Xabre
01-20-06, 01:18 PM Yeah most definitely ^_^

I see the class as being pretty versatile, It all depends on how you play the character. You could use him like a complete Defensive or complete out of combat mage then use your Breathe weapons when the need arises. Hell you'll slaughter so many people just with your Breathe, the party should warship you as a Hero, lol.

Do any of those PrCs have UMD as a class skill? If so then you have all the versatility you'll ever need. :D

Dragonblood Sorcerer (which you can take at level 1, 4, and 7 of Sorcerer) gives up Craft and Profession and instead gets UMD. So you'd be able to smatter it around the build a little bit.

There are some other breath feats in Races of the Dragon... one of them, which I forget the name of, says that instead of doing damage, you can use your breath to make someone immune to the similar breath weapon... with a Dragonborn being able to mix and match elements, it's pretty good for keeping your entire party safe... but then again, so does an offensive breath weapon.

It should bare mentioning that when you crunch the numbers, the damage output is a little... intresting. The dragonborn breath weapon will never go above 7d8 damage at level 20. The Draconic Breath feat will reach 27d6 using a 9th level spell slot. Obviously Breath is going to do more outright damage, but you have to use the dragonborn breath weapon in order to use all the feats and metaspells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elemental_Elf 01-19-06, 05:52 AM	What class combinations would yeild the best possible Breath Weapon attack(s)? Assuming, of course, the base race does not inherently have a Breath Weapon. I was think somethng along the lines of Sorcerer with Draconic Heratage and Draconic Breath Feats, atleast 3 levels of Dragon Disciple and Dragon Samurai with maybe 3 levels as well. The rest of the levels would be taken by Sorcerer levels. I'm looking for the best Breath Cannon we can get, even if that 'Cannon' only has 1 super charged shot.
Seeker of Undeath 01-19-06, 05:59 AM	What class combinations would yeild the best possible Breath Weapon attack(s)? Assuming, of course, the base race does not inherently have a Breath Weapon. I was think somethng along the lines of Sorcerer with Draconic Heratage and Draconic Breath Feats, atleast 3 levels of Dragon Disciple and Dragon Samurai with maybe 3 levels as well. The rest of the levels would be taken by Sorcerer levels. I'm looking for the best Breath Cannon we can get, even if that 'Cannon' only has 1 super charged shot.Well a Human Sorcerer10/DragonheartMage10 could burn a 9th-level spell slot for a 27d6 breath attack. There'd be no wait time for a second shot either. There are also a lot of spells that modify breath weapons in the Spell Compendium. I particularly like the energy substitution, ethereal, and enervating modifiers. Most, if not all, have a casting time of 1 swift action. I think that's a start.
Elemental_Elf 01-19-06, 01:07 PM	Interesting. Where is the Dragonheart Mage from? He's not in the PrC Index..
Xabre 01-19-06, 02:33 PM	Dragonheart Mage is new, from Races of the Dragon. It's a really powerful spellcasting class, especially when you figure you never need to take an attack spell after 6th levle, because you can convert even Identify into a gout of energy. The only problem, of course, comes from the fact that you must pick one energy type, and hope you never come across something with immunity. In the same book is also the Dragonborn race... which is not quite a race, and not quite a template... really, an existing character that worships the Dragon god bahamut can sacrifice most of his racial traits, and gain the Dragonborn traits. One of the abilities you can choose when you do this is a breath weapon, unlimited use, with a 1d4 recharge rate (qualifying you for metabreath feats). I also just yesterday posted a prestige class in the PrC board called (tenatively) the Metabreather. I'm still trying to get feedback on if it's too powerful or not.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 01-19-06, 05:10 PM	Personally, I recommend Breath Admixture (double your breath weapon's damage) and Animate Breath. And as a feat, Maximize Breath. Mind you, you'll first need a Breath Weapon. And if you want to keep with a theme, try a Draconic Ray sorcerer. It's a variant class, and it exchanges the ability to have a familiar for the ability to use a Draconic Ray (1 a day at first level, with increasing usages with advancement). A Draconic Ray deals energy damage based on the dragon you're affiliated with, and then a second effect. The metallic dragons give you a version of their secondary breath weapons. But to keep with your hard-hitter plan, I recommend Blue (deals extra damage from non-lethal dehydration), or Red (sets you on fire, so you take a few more points of damage for a few rounds). In fact, being a Draconic Ray Sorcerer rather than a regular Sorcerer might explain in RPing terms why you chose to become a Dragon Ascendant. P.S. Half-Dragon Paragorn gives you extra Breath Weapon usages.
Apollo's Lyre 01-19-06, 06:08 PM	Umm... What book are the metabreath feats in?
Xabre 01-19-06, 07:06 PM	You know what I find funny about this thread? We're all talking about something different. Here are all the different methods you can use, as far as I can think of, to build a 'breather'. 1. Dragonborn of Bahamut with Aspect of Heart. This gives you a breath weapon line of changable energy, 5' per level, 1d8 + 1d8 per 3 levels of damage. It's unlimited use, but 1d4 rounds in between. You can apply Metabreath feats to this effect. 2. A sorcerer with Draconic Heritage and Draconic Breath. This character is taking all of his Sorcerer spells, and converting them into either a 30' cone or a 60' line of a single energy type, chosen when you take the Heritage feat. You can NOT upgrade the Breath powers of this feat using Metabreath feats because there's no recharge time before uses. You COULD use Metabreath Spells, if you quickened the Metabreath so it could go off the same time you used the Draconic Breath. 2b. To a greater Extent, taking the Dragonheart Mage increases the power that the Draconic Breath feat does. You could end up with a 27d6 blast of breath at 20th level. 3. A Half Dragon gets a breath weapon once per day. Level 3 in Half-Dragon paragon ups that to 3/day. If you're a Half-Dragon and you have 6 hit dice, the feat 'Dragon Breath' gives you unlimited uses, with a 1d4 recharge time. Perhaps Level 3 of Half-Dragon Paragon will change and give the feat instead? Either way, once you have more than one use per day, you can apply Metabreath feats, and Metabreath Spells. 4. The Master Transmografist and other similiar builds use heavy Polymorphing, to allow you to turn into a Dragon. There is a thread in the Character Optimization board that was all about using Draconic Polymorph, and/or the Dragon Breath spell (since there are so many uses of this term) to apply lots of Metabreath feats. In my opinion, the Dragonborn or the Half-Dragon with the Dragonbreath feat are probably your best bet for a 'Breath Cannon'. Personally, I would suggest the following build to make a super breather: Dragonborn of Bahamut w/ Aspect of Heart Sorcerer 10 (use Dragonblood Sorcerer racial sub level 1, if nothing else)/Dragonheart Mage 10. Take as many Metabreath Feats as you can. For your free Draconic Feats out of Dragonheart Mage, I'd suggest Skin, Resistance, and Arcane Grace, as these are all defense properties, and you're gonna need as many 'extra' defensive bonuses as you can get. Take the feat Ability Focus (Breath Weapon). This SHOULD count towards both the Dragonborn Breath Weapon, and the Dragonic Breath breath weapons. Choose a dragon for Draconic Heritage that is one of the 'unusual' energy types, such as Force, Light, or Sonic... as the Dragonborn can choose the more common energy types for its breath weapon. This way if you SOMEHOW come up against something very strange, you have your Draconic Breath. If your DM lets you, RUN for Amethyst or Radiant or one of those that gives you a Force breath weapon. Force hits incorpreal. You should have, now, 6 additional feats. Heritage was free with the Dragonblood sorcerer level, and Breath is free. Take 6 Metabreath Feats, and make sure one of them is the one that lowers your rest time between breaths. If you're allowed, take some Flaws to gain even more feats. Obviously, the fast majority of your spells should be Metabreath Spells. While you can only cast a single Metabreath spell per turn, you can, if you so desire, wire EVERY metabreath feat together into a single blast, and then wait about 10 rounds before you can breath again. While you're waiting, use some extra spell slots to throw around 'normal' breaths from Draconic Breath. There you go... the best Breath Cannon I can think of, without getting into the absolute nitty gritty specifics. Btw, for the person who asked, Metabreath Feats and Metabreath Spells are both in Draconomicon. Races of the Dragon has a few other Breath feats, but they aren't as potent.
Munchmausen 01-20-06, 12:03 PM	Well, here are a couple options: Dissolving Spittle Incarnate. Sadly, it's only acid damage and only one target, so there's not a lot of flexibility. On the plus side, it's pretty good damage and available at level 1. Totemist - Lammasu Mantle gives you a respectable cone of fire starting at level 2. Around level 14 or so, you get access to lines of lightning and acid as well. Warlock - Eldritch blast out your mouth. All of these builds involve nigh-unlimited uses per day of the abilities (only limited by the number of rounds in a day).
Xabre 01-20-06, 12:09 PM	Here's a good Blaster Build, as mentioned earlier. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=572271)
Elemental_Elf 01-20-06, 12:55 PM	Warlock - Eldritch blast out your mouth. That's creepy and cool, lol. ~~~ Xabre: Wow your build is really cool. Thanx for all the help ^_^ :bow:
Xabre 01-20-06, 01:00 PM	Hell, I'm tempted to play that one myself, after building it. But, much like a Warlock blaster, I'm worried that it's too one-trick. Of course, because of how BAROKEN the Dragonborn can be with Aspect of Heart.... You really never need an attack spell, so it canbe much more versatile than most sorcerers.
Elemental_Elf 01-20-06, 01:07 PM	Hell, I'm tempted to play that one myself, after building it. But, much like a Warlock blaster, I'm worried that it's too one-trick. Of course, because of how BAROKEN the Dragonborn can be with Aspect of Heart.... You really never need an attack spell, so it canbe much more versatile than most sorcerers. Yeah most definitely ^_^ I see the class as being pretty versatile, It all depends on how you play the character. You could use him like a complete Defensive or complete out of combat mage then use your Breathe weapons when the need arises. Hell you'll slaughter so many people just with your Breathe, the party should warship you as a Hero, lol. Do any of those PrCs have UMD as a class skill? If so then you have all the versatility you'll ever need. :D
Xabre 01-20-06, 01:18 PM	Yeah most definitely ^_^ I see the class as being pretty versatile, It all depends on how you play the character. You could use him like a complete Defensive or complete out of combat mage then use your Breathe weapons when the need arises. Hell you'll slaughter so many people just with your Breathe, the party should warship you as a Hero, lol. Do any of those PrCs have UMD as a class skill? If so then you have all the versatility you'll ever need. :D Dragonblood Sorcerer (which you can take at level 1, 4, and 7 of Sorcerer) gives up Craft and Profession and instead gets UMD. So you'd be able to smatter it around the build a little bit. There are some other breath feats in Races of the Dragon... one of them, which I forget the name of, says that instead of doing damage, you can use your breath to make someone immune to the similar breath weapon... with a Dragonborn being able to mix and match elements, it's pretty good for keeping your entire party safe... but then again, so does an offensive breath weapon. It should bare mentioning that when you crunch the numbers, the damage output is a little... intresting. The dragonborn breath weapon will never go above 7d8 damage at level 20. The Draconic Breath feat will reach 27d6 using a 9th level spell slot. Obviously Breath is going to do more outright damage, but you have to use the dragonborn breath weapon in order to use all the feats and metaspells.