Bringing the Adept up to speed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bringing the Adept up to speed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Asi the red
05-13-05, 08:08 PM Hey ya'.

Ok, the general consensus that I've seen is that the DMG NPC classes like the warrior, adept, expert, etc are not up to the power level of the PHB classes.

So here's my question, what do you all think needs to be done to the Adept to bring it up to the power level of a PC class.
-This is for a variant (read as: custom) setting, and I already know that I don't want to fool with the spell list or the spells/day. But any other suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks in advance,
Asi the Red.
NinjaPenguin
05-13-05, 08:46 PM Erm... actually i dont think anything needs to be done to the NPC classes. They are designed to be far less powerful than the PC classes. PCs are more 'special' than the average NPC by definition. A fighter will always be better than a Warrior, and everyone will be better than a Commoner. Clerics and Wizards will always be better than Adepts and Magewrights. Thats the point. PCs aren't supposed to take these classes, thought they may if you let them, as they just aren't worth it. Normal people dont really have as much choice as adventurers.

The best way to bring the NPC classes up to the level of the PC classes is simply to eliminate them entirely and have everyone have PC classes instead, though this is hardly 'realistic' in a D&D sense. It may be exactly what you want for you game. The lowliest acolyte at the temple is a 1st level Cleric, not a simple Expert or Adept. The farmer in the field yonder is a 2nd level Rogue, not a 2nd level Commoner. Might be amusing, but is definitely strange. :)
Redmoon
05-13-05, 10:02 PM I'd give it Item Creation, Metamagic, Magical/Supernatural feats. Whatever your character type needs.. dunno exactly what you want your adept to be. And domains. I'd give them two domains, as a Cleric. If not two, definitely give them one.
Tony Vargas
05-13-05, 11:07 PM -This is for a variant (read as: custom) setting, and I already know that I don't want to fool with the spell list or the spells/day. But any other suggestions would be helpful.Well, the Adept is a very weak primary caster with those spells/day, not even quite up to the Bard's standard, really. You'd have to compensate with some non-casting abilities - better hps/bab/weapon selection, maybe let them cast in armor like a cleric or bard.

Depending on exactly what your adept is supposed to represent, bonus feats, for specific types of item creation, or even spell-like abilities might be apropriate. But, it really depends on what you're going for.
PlutoniumKnight
05-13-05, 11:18 PM The farmer in the field yonder is a 2nd level Rogue, not a 2nd level Commoner. Might be amusing, but is definitely strange. :)
Actually it would be a ranger with favoured enemy plants, going twf with sickles.
:P
Thelon Fairblade
05-14-05, 01:03 PM The Adept as a PC class is essentially Bard or Sorcerer, with alternate lists.
kedi
05-14-05, 01:07 PM Actually it would be a ranger with favoured enemy plants, going twf with sickles.
:P
:rofl:
Asi the red
05-14-05, 03:27 PM Hey ya'.
Thanks for the speedy replies.

Actually though, I've realized that they weren't what I was looking for, so have had to abandon that plan of action.

As a side note, having all the commoners be 2nd level rangers would make them more difficult to rob...

Thanks anyways.
Asi the Red.
Mind Rogue
05-14-05, 03:43 PM Also, in d20 Modern, commoners use the same classes as heroes do. However, they lack action points and the special class features. So a thug might be a tough ordinary, giving him d10 hp, a +0 bab (3/4), +2 fort, 2 skill points (x4), and I think a +1 AC bonus. The ringleader might be a tough hero who has all that, except that he has max hp at first level, he gets 5 action points (but he'll have spent half of them when the PCs meet up with him), and one talent, such as resistance to a particular energy.

If you wanted to do something like that for NPCs, you could make experts be rogue ordinaries, warriors could be fighter or ranger ordinaries, adepts might be cleric or druid or even bard ordinaries (perhaps with an altered spell list), aristocrats might be rogue or bard ordinaries or just even take normal PC classes, and commoners who just be PoSs (or ordinaries in another classes). Thus these NPC classes would be just like a PC except that they don't get any of the class features, such as bonus feats or sneak attack, nor do they get maximum Hp at first level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Asi the red 05-13-05, 08:08 PM	Hey ya'. Ok, the general consensus that I've seen is that the DMG NPC classes like the warrior, adept, expert, etc are not up to the power level of the PHB classes. So here's my question, what do you all think needs to be done to the Adept to bring it up to the power level of a PC class. -This is for a variant (read as: custom) setting, and I already know that I don't want to fool with the spell list or the spells/day. But any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Asi the Red.
NinjaPenguin 05-13-05, 08:46 PM	Erm... actually i dont think anything needs to be done to the NPC classes. They are designed to be far less powerful than the PC classes. PCs are more 'special' than the average NPC by definition. A fighter will always be better than a Warrior, and everyone will be better than a Commoner. Clerics and Wizards will always be better than Adepts and Magewrights. Thats the point. PCs aren't supposed to take these classes, thought they may if you let them, as they just aren't worth it. Normal people dont really have as much choice as adventurers. The best way to bring the NPC classes up to the level of the PC classes is simply to eliminate them entirely and have everyone have PC classes instead, though this is hardly 'realistic' in a D&D sense. It may be exactly what you want for you game. The lowliest acolyte at the temple is a 1st level Cleric, not a simple Expert or Adept. The farmer in the field yonder is a 2nd level Rogue, not a 2nd level Commoner. Might be amusing, but is definitely strange. :)
Redmoon 05-13-05, 10:02 PM	I'd give it Item Creation, Metamagic, Magical/Supernatural feats. Whatever your character type needs.. dunno exactly what you want your adept to be. And domains. I'd give them two domains, as a Cleric. If not two, definitely give them one.
Tony Vargas 05-13-05, 11:07 PM	-This is for a variant (read as: custom) setting, and I already know that I don't want to fool with the spell list or the spells/day. But any other suggestions would be helpful.Well, the Adept is a very weak primary caster with those spells/day, not even quite up to the Bard's standard, really. You'd have to compensate with some non-casting abilities - better hps/bab/weapon selection, maybe let them cast in armor like a cleric or bard. Depending on exactly what your adept is supposed to represent, bonus feats, for specific types of item creation, or even spell-like abilities might be apropriate. But, it really depends on what you're going for.
PlutoniumKnight 05-13-05, 11:18 PM	The farmer in the field yonder is a 2nd level Rogue, not a 2nd level Commoner. Might be amusing, but is definitely strange. :) Actually it would be a ranger with favoured enemy plants, going twf with sickles. :P
Thelon Fairblade 05-14-05, 01:03 PM	The Adept as a PC class is essentially Bard or Sorcerer, with alternate lists.
kedi 05-14-05, 01:07 PM	Actually it would be a ranger with favoured enemy plants, going twf with sickles. :P :rofl:
Asi the red 05-14-05, 03:27 PM	Hey ya'. Thanks for the speedy replies. Actually though, I've realized that they weren't what I was looking for, so have had to abandon that plan of action. As a side note, having all the commoners be 2nd level rangers would make them more difficult to rob... Thanks anyways. Asi the Red.
Mind Rogue 05-14-05, 03:43 PM	Also, in d20 Modern, commoners use the same classes as heroes do. However, they lack action points and the special class features. So a thug might be a tough ordinary, giving him d10 hp, a +0 bab (3/4), +2 fort, 2 skill points (x4), and I think a +1 AC bonus. The ringleader might be a tough hero who has all that, except that he has max hp at first level, he gets 5 action points (but he'll have spent half of them when the PCs meet up with him), and one talent, such as resistance to a particular energy. If you wanted to do something like that for NPCs, you could make experts be rogue ordinaries, warriors could be fighter or ranger ordinaries, adepts might be cleric or druid or even bard ordinaries (perhaps with an altered spell list), aristocrats might be rogue or bard ordinaries or just even take normal PC classes, and commoners who just be PoSs (or ordinaries in another classes). Thus these NPC classes would be just like a PC except that they don't get any of the class features, such as bonus feats or sneak attack, nor do they get maximum Hp at first level.