Brocken prestige class combo [Archive] - Wizards Community

Brocken prestige class combo [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kenner536
01-13-07, 05:03 AM Frenzied Bezerker and Hell Reaver. The Frenzied doesn't die unless you take massive damage from something like fire ball or a transmutation spell akin to disintegrate. Get a ring that gives you evasion and make sure you level up enough with Hell Reaver to give you mettle. Very sick combo, no?
cog_n_taz
01-13-07, 06:35 AM Not really... first of all, I haven't seen hell reaver, but is that possible within 20 levels? Also,is it the fort save will be high, but what about ref/will saves?
The_Shaman
01-13-07, 07:18 AM First of all, the party will likely object. Roleplaying or not, people do not like it when you waste their PCs. Second... I think the insane power attack is a much better bonus than the deathless frenzy.

If you want a good barbarian PrC, I'd advise you to check the Champion of G in the Book of Exalted Deeds. You get all a normal barbarian gets (er, sans trap sense iirc) and a few other nice goodies. It's not broken, per se... just very mean. Oh, and for another nice idea, check the runescarred berserker. How would you feel about being able to cast antimagic field for those high-level spellcasters?
runestar
01-13-07, 08:20 AM It should be noted that the FB's drawback is actually not that hard to work around....(merciful weapon, rope trick etc)

The CO boards have found quite inventive ways of managing this.:)
The_Shaman
01-13-07, 09:19 AM So you have to jump through hoops just so that you avoid being killed by your psychotic party member? Sweet.

My favourite would be with a readied "transform rock to mud" spell or, even better, an item worn by the FB that casts the spell, centered on him, on command from any of the party members. A sufficiently heavy stone of weighing or some such could also work. Of course, the FB has to agree to this :rolleyes: but I'd take it that few groups wouldn't like a precaution when they're adventuring with a TPK waiting to happen. Anyway, it's a powerful class in what does best, but not necessarily a game-ender.
Ocom
01-13-07, 09:35 AM Where is Hell Reaver from?

Also, frenzied berserker is my barbarian PRC of choice but played one yet. The trick is not to rage near open flames. But i usually get him fire resistance of immunity.
GhostStepper
01-13-07, 11:22 AM Deathless Frenzy hardly makes the FB unkillable. If someone hits him with an unarmed strike or sap for nonlethal while he is in negative HP he's toast. Hardly gamebreaking or even powerful.
StruckingFuggle
01-13-07, 12:40 PM Nonlethal damage will certainly shoot the FB in the foot ... Unless your DM is sane and rules that deathless frenzy makes him immune to subdual damage, too. Else there's no point to the ability at all unless you can find some other way to be immune to subdual.

A nasty combo for FB is take a couple levels of Warblade. There's nothing that keeps an FB from initiating maneuvers, ya? A couple Diamond Mind maneuvers (a will save with no failure on a natural 1? sure!) and Iron Heart Surge (end frenzy at will? Sure!) will go a long, long way to keeping your frenzy in check. Plus, Emerald Razor? Mithril Tornado? Sure! Yes please.
runestar
01-13-07, 01:51 PM I am sure there are spells which make you immune to non-lethal damage...:P
Necropolitan
01-13-07, 02:15 PM It should be noted that the FB's drawback is actually not that hard to work around....(merciful weapon, rope trick etc)

The CO boards have found quite inventive ways of managing this.:)

Plus there was an Errata feat in one of the Complete books called "Moment of Perfect Thought" that allows you to once a encounter, end your rage with a move-action.

Booyah.

I'll dig up where I saw that in a moment.
fatal error
01-13-07, 02:27 PM A nasty combo for FB is take a couple levels of Warblade. There's nothing that keeps an FB from initiating maneuvers, ya? A couple Diamond Mind maneuvers (a will save with no failure on a natural 1? sure!) and Iron Heart Surge (end frenzy at will? Sure!) will go a long, long way to keeping your frenzy in check. Plus, Emerald Razor? Mithril Tornado? Sure! Yes please.

Wouldn't a Concentration check be impossible while raging? I mean, assuming "Your DM is sane."
StruckingFuggle
01-13-07, 03:44 PM Can they use it while in the grips of a Frenzy? No. Can they use it to prevent thesmelves from Frenzying? I'd rule yes. Iron Heart Surge is for ending your frenzy when it needs to end. :)
kenner536
01-14-07, 03:22 AM Hellreaver is from the Tyrants of the Nine Hells. The pc gets mettle. It gives them a good anti-disintergrate. And, to avoid area effects pick up ring of evasion. Also, to stop from grinding out your frenzy when something big and nasty grapples you down get something enchanted with freedom of movement. Pick up some feats to extend the Frenzy.
As to wasting the party it is only a DC 20 will to break out. So anyone worth their salt is going to have a 75 percent chance or better to break out of the Frenzy. Just remember to coax someeone to always have a revivify to prevent xp lose because you're going to die as a FB after the fight is over.
StruckingFuggle
01-15-07, 09:50 PM As to wasting the party it is only a DC 20 will to break out. So anyone worth their salt is going to have a 75 percent chance or better to break out of the Frenzy

you know, "they have a 75% chance to break out of it" translates to "one time in four, they won't break out of it"...
Grimmsfeld
01-16-07, 01:27 AM Wouldn't a Concentration check be impossible while raging? I mean, assuming "Your DM is sane."
I'm assuming he's referencing Moment of Perfect Mind as a safeguard against the accidental start of a frenzy.
OneWinged4ngel
01-16-07, 01:36 AM Here's a broken PrC combo: Planar Shepherd and... wait, who cares what the second part is? Your DM was gullible enough to let you get Planar Shepherd levels! Now you can run rampant and destroy the world.

Seriously though, lots of abuse can come of full caster progression PrCs, and from progressing the casting of PrCs with them (such as the Sublime Chord)
Silverthumb128
01-16-07, 01:44 AM Just fly around over the FB's head, summon as many hostile, low-levelled critters as possible(to distract, since the FB doesn't really get to choose what he/she attacks), then wait for the duration of Rage to wear off. Then just do whatever.

You can make this happen faster via Time Hop. FB's big weakness is duration.

EDIT: And Sanctuary, too. A 1st level Cleric spell is plenty to halt the FB's utility. I'm sure there are several other low-level, PHB spells that do the trick, but I'm sure they've been brought up before.
StruckingFuggle
01-16-07, 02:00 AM I'm assuming he's referencing Moment of Perfect Mind as a safeguard against the accidental start of a frenzy.

Yup. And then I for one feel an FB could probably use Iron Heart Surge to end the Frenzy if need be.
dawnbringer
01-16-07, 10:53 AM Why do people always say max of level 20 for? In none of the games that i've played has level 20 ever been the limit.
Fallenangel359
01-16-07, 11:05 AM 20 is the DMG rules max level, anything beyond that is considered epic, and has different rules, to prevent problems, such as a willsave of 60 and a fort save of 25 :P
Iry
02-13-07, 08:56 AM Yup. And then I for one feel an FB could probably use Iron Heart Surge to end the Frenzy if need be.Do you consider using Iron Heart Surge as 'Attacking your foes to the best of your ability'?

I certainly wouldn't, unless you were otherwise so laden down with Save vs Suck spells that it theoretically would be better to Iron Heart Surge than continue attacking. Then, getting rid of the Frenzy would simply be a coincidence.
belthazzar1113
02-13-07, 11:34 AM so many people complain about a FB laying waste to their own party. we have had 6 of them in various groups and never once have they ever been a problem. everysingle time the save was failed all it took was just a little thought and poof no problems.

FB will still attack enemies in preference to allies even while in frenzy. so all you have to do is lay one little bluff check on them to say a fallen foe is being raised as a zombie, or that there is an invisible stalker attacking and they will waste several rounds pummling a corpse or attacking air all the while making their saves to come out of frenzy. and thats all its ever taken. its not a hard thing and you don't need all off this monkeying around to prevent this very small low percentage chance disaster.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kenner536 01-13-07, 05:03 AM	Frenzied Bezerker and Hell Reaver. The Frenzied doesn't die unless you take massive damage from something like fire ball or a transmutation spell akin to disintegrate. Get a ring that gives you evasion and make sure you level up enough with Hell Reaver to give you mettle. Very sick combo, no?
cog_n_taz 01-13-07, 06:35 AM	Not really... first of all, I haven't seen hell reaver, but is that possible within 20 levels? Also,is it the fort save will be high, but what about ref/will saves?
The_Shaman 01-13-07, 07:18 AM	First of all, the party will likely object. Roleplaying or not, people do not like it when you waste their PCs. Second... I think the insane power attack is a much better bonus than the deathless frenzy. If you want a good barbarian PrC, I'd advise you to check the Champion of G in the Book of Exalted Deeds. You get all a normal barbarian gets (er, sans trap sense iirc) and a few other nice goodies. It's not broken, per se... just very mean. Oh, and for another nice idea, check the runescarred berserker. How would you feel about being able to cast antimagic field for those high-level spellcasters?
runestar 01-13-07, 08:20 AM	It should be noted that the FB's drawback is actually not that hard to work around....(merciful weapon, rope trick etc) The CO boards have found quite inventive ways of managing this.:)
The_Shaman 01-13-07, 09:19 AM	So you have to jump through hoops just so that you avoid being killed by your psychotic party member? Sweet. My favourite would be with a readied "transform rock to mud" spell or, even better, an item worn by the FB that casts the spell, centered on him, on command from any of the party members. A sufficiently heavy stone of weighing or some such could also work. Of course, the FB has to agree to this :rolleyes: but I'd take it that few groups wouldn't like a precaution when they're adventuring with a TPK waiting to happen. Anyway, it's a powerful class in what does best, but not necessarily a game-ender.
Ocom 01-13-07, 09:35 AM	Where is Hell Reaver from? Also, frenzied berserker is my barbarian PRC of choice but played one yet. The trick is not to rage near open flames. But i usually get him fire resistance of immunity.
GhostStepper 01-13-07, 11:22 AM	Deathless Frenzy hardly makes the FB unkillable. If someone hits him with an unarmed strike or sap for nonlethal while he is in negative HP he's toast. Hardly gamebreaking or even powerful.
StruckingFuggle 01-13-07, 12:40 PM	Nonlethal damage will certainly shoot the FB in the foot ... Unless your DM is sane and rules that deathless frenzy makes him immune to subdual damage, too. Else there's no point to the ability at all unless you can find some other way to be immune to subdual. A nasty combo for FB is take a couple levels of Warblade. There's nothing that keeps an FB from initiating maneuvers, ya? A couple Diamond Mind maneuvers (a will save with no failure on a natural 1? sure!) and Iron Heart Surge (end frenzy at will? Sure!) will go a long, long way to keeping your frenzy in check. Plus, Emerald Razor? Mithril Tornado? Sure! Yes please.
runestar 01-13-07, 01:51 PM	I am sure there are spells which make you immune to non-lethal damage...:P
Necropolitan 01-13-07, 02:15 PM	It should be noted that the FB's drawback is actually not that hard to work around....(merciful weapon, rope trick etc) The CO boards have found quite inventive ways of managing this.:) Plus there was an Errata feat in one of the Complete books called "Moment of Perfect Thought" that allows you to once a encounter, end your rage with a move-action. Booyah. I'll dig up where I saw that in a moment.
fatal error 01-13-07, 02:27 PM	A nasty combo for FB is take a couple levels of Warblade. There's nothing that keeps an FB from initiating maneuvers, ya? A couple Diamond Mind maneuvers (a will save with no failure on a natural 1? sure!) and Iron Heart Surge (end frenzy at will? Sure!) will go a long, long way to keeping your frenzy in check. Plus, Emerald Razor? Mithril Tornado? Sure! Yes please. Wouldn't a Concentration check be impossible while raging? I mean, assuming "Your DM is sane."
StruckingFuggle 01-13-07, 03:44 PM	Can they use it while in the grips of a Frenzy? No. Can they use it to prevent thesmelves from Frenzying? I'd rule yes. Iron Heart Surge is for ending your frenzy when it needs to end. :)
kenner536 01-14-07, 03:22 AM	Hellreaver is from the Tyrants of the Nine Hells. The pc gets mettle. It gives them a good anti-disintergrate. And, to avoid area effects pick up ring of evasion. Also, to stop from grinding out your frenzy when something big and nasty grapples you down get something enchanted with freedom of movement. Pick up some feats to extend the Frenzy. As to wasting the party it is only a DC 20 will to break out. So anyone worth their salt is going to have a 75 percent chance or better to break out of the Frenzy. Just remember to coax someeone to always have a revivify to prevent xp lose because you're going to die as a FB after the fight is over.
StruckingFuggle 01-15-07, 09:50 PM	As to wasting the party it is only a DC 20 will to break out. So anyone worth their salt is going to have a 75 percent chance or better to break out of the Frenzy you know, "they have a 75% chance to break out of it" translates to "one time in four, they won't break out of it"...
Grimmsfeld 01-16-07, 01:27 AM	Wouldn't a Concentration check be impossible while raging? I mean, assuming "Your DM is sane." I'm assuming he's referencing Moment of Perfect Mind as a safeguard against the accidental start of a frenzy.
OneWinged4ngel 01-16-07, 01:36 AM	Here's a broken PrC combo: Planar Shepherd and... wait, who cares what the second part is? Your DM was gullible enough to let you get Planar Shepherd levels! Now you can run rampant and destroy the world. Seriously though, lots of abuse can come of full caster progression PrCs, and from progressing the casting of PrCs with them (such as the Sublime Chord)
Silverthumb128 01-16-07, 01:44 AM	Just fly around over the FB's head, summon as many hostile, low-levelled critters as possible(to distract, since the FB doesn't really get to choose what he/she attacks), then wait for the duration of Rage to wear off. Then just do whatever. You can make this happen faster via Time Hop. FB's big weakness is duration. EDIT: And Sanctuary, too. A 1st level Cleric spell is plenty to halt the FB's utility. I'm sure there are several other low-level, PHB spells that do the trick, but I'm sure they've been brought up before.
StruckingFuggle 01-16-07, 02:00 AM	I'm assuming he's referencing Moment of Perfect Mind as a safeguard against the accidental start of a frenzy. Yup. And then I for one feel an FB could probably use Iron Heart Surge to end the Frenzy if need be.
dawnbringer 01-16-07, 10:53 AM	Why do people always say max of level 20 for? In none of the games that i've played has level 20 ever been the limit.
Fallenangel359 01-16-07, 11:05 AM	20 is the DMG rules max level, anything beyond that is considered epic, and has different rules, to prevent problems, such as a willsave of 60 and a fort save of 25 :P
Iry 02-13-07, 08:56 AM	Yup. And then I for one feel an FB could probably use Iron Heart Surge to end the Frenzy if need be.Do you consider using Iron Heart Surge as 'Attacking your foes to the best of your ability'? I certainly wouldn't, unless you were otherwise so laden down with Save vs Suck spells that it theoretically would be better to Iron Heart Surge than continue attacking. Then, getting rid of the Frenzy would simply be a coincidence.
belthazzar1113 02-13-07, 11:34 AM	so many people complain about a FB laying waste to their own party. we have had 6 of them in various groups and never once have they ever been a problem. everysingle time the save was failed all it took was just a little thought and poof no problems. FB will still attack enemies in preference to allies even while in frenzy. so all you have to do is lay one little bluff check on them to say a fallen foe is being raised as a zombie, or that there is an invisible stalker attacking and they will waste several rounds pummling a corpse or attacking air all the while making their saves to come out of frenzy. and thats all its ever taken. its not a hard thing and you don't need all off this monkeying around to prevent this very small low percentage chance disaster.