Broken Barbarian? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Broken Barbarian? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Heo1780
08-10-06, 06:16 PM I need to know if my first level (really second level) barbarian is broken or not.

It's a 1st level Barbarain Half-Giant (from the Psionic Handbook). They have Powerful Build, which lets me wield Large Weapons normally, and for my 1st level feat I have Monk Grip, which allows me to wield a Huge Weapon with only a -2 penalty. I plan on wielding a Great Axe, meaning that, at first level, I am doing 4d6 + 1.5 Str Mod in damage, and I'll probably have a 3 or 4 bonus to attack.
Seerow
08-10-06, 06:18 PM Yep, it is broken.

Monkey Grip and Powerful Build don't stack.

Half-giant has LA+1, so you're really a second level character.
Heo1780
08-10-06, 06:19 PM They don't? Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. And my character is level one, but the group is level 2.
Seerow
08-10-06, 06:29 PM But you're still considered a second level character. I was just making sure that was clear.
Nephlite
08-10-06, 06:36 PM I need to know if my first level (really second level) barbarian is broken or not.

It's a 1st level Barbarain Half-Giant (from the Psionic Handbook). They have Powerful Build, which lets me wield Large Weapons normally, and for my 1st level feat I have Monk Grip, which allows me to wield a Huge Weapon with only a -2 penalty. I plan on wielding a Great Axe, meaning that, at first level, I am doing 4d6 + 1.5 Str Mod in damage, and I'll probably have a 3 or 4 bonus to attack.
First that Great Axe costs x4, large costs double so double that is x4 cost.

Back to idea:
Why not get Power attack: take a -1 hit (since you onlyhave +1 BAB) get +2 damage. Better I think since you can control damage.

Now you deal 3d6 (1d12 meduim great axe becomes 3d6 I believe if large):
3d6 + 1.5 Str + 2 damage is pretty nice too.

Get a Tattoo of Expansion (from Expanded Psionic Handbook) and you'll become large and axe becomes huge for duration. I believe tattoo are similar to potions, but note that expansion has a low duration.
Drodain
08-10-06, 06:39 PM as has been said powerful build and monkey grip dont stack, and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful build
Heo1780
08-10-06, 06:40 PM Hmm...really good idea. I'm was already planning on getting Power Attack (at least in light of recent news), but hadn't thought of the Expansion tatoo. Thanks a lot.
__DnD4Life__
08-10-06, 06:49 PM Hmm...really good idea. I'm was already planning on getting Power Attack (at least in light of recent news), but hadn't thought of the Expansion tatoo. Thanks a lot.
If you get EWP Bastard sword, you can weild a huge one in 2 hands, and if your DM uses the innapropriatly sizing rules, you would take a -2 penalty, and do a whopping 3d8 damage. Then pick up Pa at 3rd level, or 2nd if you dip for fighter.

And, Im pretty sure that CDiv did not errata the Hlaf-giant. I just looked through the book, and I can not see any mention of the half-giant. Could you cite a pg #?
MagnaSecuris
08-10-06, 06:53 PM Doesn't Monkey Grip require Weapon Focus, too? Or did they change that in the 3.5 version? I only have the Sword & Fist version of Monkey Grip, and I don't have it with me.
Heo1780
08-10-06, 06:57 PM If you get EWP Bastard sword, you can weild a huge one in 2 hands, and if your DM uses the innapropriatly sizing rules, you would take a -2 penalty, and do a whopping 3d8 damage. Then pick up Pa at 3rd level, or 2nd if you dip for fighter.

Thanks, but I think I'm gonna go with the Axe. It just seems to me that it smashes things better, and it's more Barbaric.

Anyways, I couldn't seem to find the Expansion Tatoo in the Expanded Psionic Handbook. How much would one cost? I'm thinking somewhere in the 75-125 range, since most of the 1st level powers are in that range as well.
tiluvias99
08-10-06, 07:04 PM and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful builduh... what? Got a page number for me there buddy?

I think you're thinking of the Half-Ogre, not Half-Giant.
ShneekeyTheLost
08-10-06, 07:20 PM My suggestion:

When ya level, take a level of PsiWar. Since ya already got pp, ya might as well use them properly. Take Expansion as your feat so you can increase your size category whenever ya want to. Because PsiWar is favored class for Half-Giants, it doesn't incur multiclassing xp penalties.

I'd also look into getting a psychic feat since you have PP. Look for something you don't need to blow your Psionic Focus on to use. Psychic dodge, Psychic Run, Up The Walls... there's some good maneuverability psychic feats you're elegible for that ya might as well take advantage of.

Either that, or take Power Attack, Shock Trooper (take penalty to AC rather than attack when Power Attacking), and Leaping Blow (further increase damage while power attacking) for some extreme damage output.

Also, I'd suggest going to the CO boards (Character Optimization) if you want to know how to get the most 'bang for your buck'.
VonRichthofen
08-11-06, 03:34 AM Either that, or take Power Attack, Shock Trooper (take penalty to AC rather than attack when Power Attacking), and Leaping Blow (further increase damage while power attacking) for some extreme damage output.

You'll need BAB +6 and Improved Bull Rush for Shock Trooper.

Btw, the "Heedless Charge" thing, as the name already implies, works only on a charge.
And while charge is a nice thing to do at early levels, it can be countered quite easily in the later game. (A fighter with Hold the Line & Sidestep comes to mind first...)

With a Barbarian, your build needs to be level 9 minimum to get the suggested feats.
Joush Mark
08-11-06, 03:48 AM Literaly broken, as was pointed out. You can't combine Monkey Grip and powerful build.

It's a powerful combo, but not broken one. Have fun with the big guy.
runestar
08-11-06, 05:00 AM When ya level, take a level of PsiWar. Since ya already got pp, ya might as well use them properly. Take Expansion as your feat so you can increase your size category whenever ya want to. Because PsiWar is favored class for Half-Giants, it doesn't incur multiclassing xp penalties.
Expansion's not really worth it until at least manfestor lv3, when you can adjust its duration to be counted in minutes, rather than seconds. :(

and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful build
You sure? I fail to see what a half-giant would have to do with divinity. and they are actually just slightly weaker than goliaths(I would gladly trade its PSA for an extra +2str).
rogue_lettuce
08-11-06, 08:09 AM First that Great Axe costs x4, large costs double so double that is x4 cost.

Unless you use DnD arithmetic? This is one of the most annoying things that wasn't cleared up in 3.5 - what uses normal arithmetic, and what uses DnD arithmetic?
batmanjr
08-11-06, 11:07 AM as has been said powerful build and monkey grip dont stack, and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful build

What record are you looking at? Looking at the errata posted for XPH there is no mention whatsoever as to the LA change of a half giant.
NedjimbO Goblin Mage
08-11-06, 02:08 PM in my group we have a goliath barbie rockin the large greataxe and power attack...its just scary...

I really have to rethink the kinds of encounters I can send at them now, like, maybe one against a vampire who charms the barbarian back at them :D

yes watch out for fear effects, try to give him a good wisdom score and at later levels take 3 levels of holy liberator for the immunity to mind control effects

and a suggestion for even more uber brokenness:

in Unearthed Arcana they have a rage variant called whirling frenzy, instead of +4 stregnth +4 con -2 ac and +2 on will saves you get +4 stregnth +2 ac +2 on reflex saves and when full attacking you can take -2 to all attacks until the round is over and get a second attack

now which is better at early levels, power attacking for 2 and adding 4 damage? or attacking at minus 2 and doing 6d6 + 3x stregnth (just about, technically it's 1.5 rounded down x2)

then again the goliath barbarian's mountain rage is pretty gool, an extra +2 on stregnth and go large sized
willpower
08-11-06, 02:48 PM First that Great Axe costs x4, large costs double so double that is x4 cost.

Back to idea:
Why not get Power attack: take a -1 hit (since you onlyhave +1 BAB) get +2 damage. Better I think since you can control damage.

Now you deal 3d6 (1d12 meduim great axe becomes 3d6 I believe if large):
3d6 + 1.5 Str + 2 damage is pretty nice too.

Get a Tattoo of Expansion (from Expanded Psionic Handbook) and you'll become large and axe becomes huge for duration. I believe tattoo are similar to potions, but note that expansion has a low duration.

Actually it costs X3, since in D&D if you double a double it comes out at X3... I didn't make the rule, but if it works to cut down our advantage when we would benefit from X4, then it should work the same way when it is to our detriment.

(sort of a joke reply)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Heo1780 08-10-06, 06:16 PM	I need to know if my first level (really second level) barbarian is broken or not. It's a 1st level Barbarain Half-Giant (from the Psionic Handbook). They have Powerful Build, which lets me wield Large Weapons normally, and for my 1st level feat I have Monk Grip, which allows me to wield a Huge Weapon with only a -2 penalty. I plan on wielding a Great Axe, meaning that, at first level, I am doing 4d6 + 1.5 Str Mod in damage, and I'll probably have a 3 or 4 bonus to attack.
Seerow 08-10-06, 06:18 PM	Yep, it is broken. Monkey Grip and Powerful Build don't stack. Half-giant has LA+1, so you're really a second level character.
Heo1780 08-10-06, 06:19 PM	They don't? Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. And my character is level one, but the group is level 2.
Seerow 08-10-06, 06:29 PM	But you're still considered a second level character. I was just making sure that was clear.
Nephlite 08-10-06, 06:36 PM	I need to know if my first level (really second level) barbarian is broken or not. It's a 1st level Barbarain Half-Giant (from the Psionic Handbook). They have Powerful Build, which lets me wield Large Weapons normally, and for my 1st level feat I have Monk Grip, which allows me to wield a Huge Weapon with only a -2 penalty. I plan on wielding a Great Axe, meaning that, at first level, I am doing 4d6 + 1.5 Str Mod in damage, and I'll probably have a 3 or 4 bonus to attack. First that Great Axe costs x4, large costs double so double that is x4 cost. Back to idea: Why not get Power attack: take a -1 hit (since you onlyhave +1 BAB) get +2 damage. Better I think since you can control damage. Now you deal 3d6 (1d12 meduim great axe becomes 3d6 I believe if large): 3d6 + 1.5 Str + 2 damage is pretty nice too. Get a Tattoo of Expansion (from Expanded Psionic Handbook) and you'll become large and axe becomes huge for duration. I believe tattoo are similar to potions, but note that expansion has a low duration.
Drodain 08-10-06, 06:39 PM	as has been said powerful build and monkey grip dont stack, and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful build
Heo1780 08-10-06, 06:40 PM	Hmm...really good idea. I'm was already planning on getting Power Attack (at least in light of recent news), but hadn't thought of the Expansion tatoo. Thanks a lot.
__DnD4Life__ 08-10-06, 06:49 PM	Hmm...really good idea. I'm was already planning on getting Power Attack (at least in light of recent news), but hadn't thought of the Expansion tatoo. Thanks a lot. If you get EWP Bastard sword, you can weild a huge one in 2 hands, and if your DM uses the innapropriatly sizing rules, you would take a -2 penalty, and do a whopping 3d8 damage. Then pick up Pa at 3rd level, or 2nd if you dip for fighter. And, Im pretty sure that CDiv did not errata the Hlaf-giant. I just looked through the book, and I can not see any mention of the half-giant. Could you cite a pg #?
MagnaSecuris 08-10-06, 06:53 PM	Doesn't Monkey Grip require Weapon Focus, too? Or did they change that in the 3.5 version? I only have the Sword & Fist version of Monkey Grip, and I don't have it with me.
Heo1780 08-10-06, 06:57 PM	If you get EWP Bastard sword, you can weild a huge one in 2 hands, and if your DM uses the innapropriatly sizing rules, you would take a -2 penalty, and do a whopping 3d8 damage. Then pick up Pa at 3rd level, or 2nd if you dip for fighter. Thanks, but I think I'm gonna go with the Axe. It just seems to me that it smashes things better, and it's more Barbaric. Anyways, I couldn't seem to find the Expansion Tatoo in the Expanded Psionic Handbook. How much would one cost? I'm thinking somewhere in the 75-125 range, since most of the 1st level powers are in that range as well.
tiluvias99 08-10-06, 07:04 PM	and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful builduh... what? Got a page number for me there buddy? I think you're thinking of the Half-Ogre, not Half-Giant.
ShneekeyTheLost 08-10-06, 07:20 PM	My suggestion: When ya level, take a level of PsiWar. Since ya already got pp, ya might as well use them properly. Take Expansion as your feat so you can increase your size category whenever ya want to. Because PsiWar is favored class for Half-Giants, it doesn't incur multiclassing xp penalties. I'd also look into getting a psychic feat since you have PP. Look for something you don't need to blow your Psionic Focus on to use. Psychic dodge, Psychic Run, Up The Walls... there's some good maneuverability psychic feats you're elegible for that ya might as well take advantage of. Either that, or take Power Attack, Shock Trooper (take penalty to AC rather than attack when Power Attacking), and Leaping Blow (further increase damage while power attacking) for some extreme damage output. Also, I'd suggest going to the CO boards (Character Optimization) if you want to know how to get the most 'bang for your buck'.
VonRichthofen 08-11-06, 03:34 AM	Either that, or take Power Attack, Shock Trooper (take penalty to AC rather than attack when Power Attacking), and Leaping Blow (further increase damage while power attacking) for some extreme damage output. You'll need BAB +6 and Improved Bull Rush for Shock Trooper. Btw, the "Heedless Charge" thing, as the name already implies, works only on a charge. And while charge is a nice thing to do at early levels, it can be countered quite easily in the later game. (A fighter with Hold the Line & Sidestep comes to mind first...) With a Barbarian, your build needs to be level 9 minimum to get the suggested feats.
Joush Mark 08-11-06, 03:48 AM	Literaly broken, as was pointed out. You can't combine Monkey Grip and powerful build. It's a powerful combo, but not broken one. Have fun with the big guy.
runestar 08-11-06, 05:00 AM	When ya level, take a level of PsiWar. Since ya already got pp, ya might as well use them properly. Take Expansion as your feat so you can increase your size category whenever ya want to. Because PsiWar is favored class for Half-Giants, it doesn't incur multiclassing xp penalties. Expansion's not really worth it until at least manfestor lv3, when you can adjust its duration to be counted in minutes, rather than seconds. :( and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful build You sure? I fail to see what a half-giant would have to do with divinity. and they are actually just slightly weaker than goliaths(I would gladly trade its PSA for an extra +2str).
rogue_lettuce 08-11-06, 08:09 AM	First that Great Axe costs x4, large costs double so double that is x4 cost. Unless you use DnD arithmetic? This is one of the most annoying things that wasn't cleared up in 3.5 - what uses normal arithmetic, and what uses DnD arithmetic?
batmanjr 08-11-06, 11:07 AM	as has been said powerful build and monkey grip dont stack, and for the record half-giant was errata'd to a LA +2 in complete divine, so i would suggest just take a goliath b/c they are LA+1 with the powerful build What record are you looking at? Looking at the errata posted for XPH there is no mention whatsoever as to the LA change of a half giant.
NedjimbO Goblin Mage 08-11-06, 02:08 PM	in my group we have a goliath barbie rockin the large greataxe and power attack...its just scary... I really have to rethink the kinds of encounters I can send at them now, like, maybe one against a vampire who charms the barbarian back at them :D yes watch out for fear effects, try to give him a good wisdom score and at later levels take 3 levels of holy liberator for the immunity to mind control effects and a suggestion for even more uber brokenness: in Unearthed Arcana they have a rage variant called whirling frenzy, instead of +4 stregnth +4 con -2 ac and +2 on will saves you get +4 stregnth +2 ac +2 on reflex saves and when full attacking you can take -2 to all attacks until the round is over and get a second attack now which is better at early levels, power attacking for 2 and adding 4 damage? or attacking at minus 2 and doing 6d6 + 3x stregnth (just about, technically it's 1.5 rounded down x2) then again the goliath barbarian's mountain rage is pretty gool, an extra +2 on stregnth and go large sized
willpower 08-11-06, 02:48 PM	First that Great Axe costs x4, large costs double so double that is x4 cost. Back to idea: Why not get Power attack: take a -1 hit (since you onlyhave +1 BAB) get +2 damage. Better I think since you can control damage. Now you deal 3d6 (1d12 meduim great axe becomes 3d6 I believe if large): 3d6 + 1.5 Str + 2 damage is pretty nice too. Get a Tattoo of Expansion (from Expanded Psionic Handbook) and you'll become large and axe becomes huge for duration. I believe tattoo are similar to potions, but note that expansion has a low duration. Actually it costs X3, since in D&D if you double a double it comes out at X3... I didn't make the rule, but if it works to cut down our advantage when we would benefit from X4, then it should work the same way when it is to our detriment. (sort of a joke reply)