Broken characters encouraged [Archive] - Wizards Community

Broken characters encouraged [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadowcast139
02-17-08, 11:48 AM Hey,
My friend is running an "every other weekend weekly" game under the suggestion that players create the most broken characters possible. The party, all level 2, consists currently of a warblade, 2 warlocks(that means NO to any chance of a paladin), a cleric, a fighter, a VoP monk, a bard, and an awakened monkey factotum. I don't necessarily want make an ultra broken character, rather a character that can fit into this party of broken roles, but since most of the basic roles have been filed, the chance to play a "broken-role" character seems to be nigh. Any suggestions?

P.S: I have created posts like this in the past and gotten extremely rude responses around the lines of "try being creative instead of making other people be creative for you." Ok, I get it that you obviously have more important, heavenly-appointed tasks than to tell some 2-year DnD player how to make a fun "5th party member character (i.e: The Bard, and yes, I know the bard can hold his own in situations but this isn't a debate about that) for a huge, zany game, so please don't waste your time imparting your sacred message of "stop asking people for advice on the boards, because they weren't designed for helping people in this manner." Whew, that was a long one.... Thank you in advance to anyone who responds in a constructive and overall helpful manner.
Banatine
02-17-08, 12:03 PM You will probably get a far more positive response to posts like this in the Character Optimisation area.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
02-17-08, 12:05 PM http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=587555

This ought to do.
Shadowcast139
02-17-08, 12:27 PM I thought about putting this in character optimization, but settled on "Classes and Prestige Classes" on the following reasons:

1. I am really tired. You know that feeling you get when you pull an all-nighter at a friend's house? That's close. Mind my grouchiness in my original message, I've never had much luck with these polls.

2. I think of character optimization as taking a basic character build and optimizing it to its fullest in the given situation/environment. Am I wrong on that assumption? Probably. It's not hard to be wrong on things in DnD/the polls.
dman11235
02-17-08, 12:58 PM einvaldurinn has a good thread for this linked. But if all you want to do is have a powerful character, here are some of my creations (well, most of them I came up with by myself, whether or not someone else posted them here):

paladin (yes, you can still play a paladin, as long as they aren't evil, and if they are, then play an evil paladin: UA or SRD variant classes) with lotsa domain feats, specifically animal and possibly protection, air, plant, knowledge, law, or chaos. and Battle Blessing, and levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator. Races and rest of class levels completely up to you. It's just the general idea of a paladin that is actually powerful through domain feats, swift action spells, and multiple swift actions per round (i.e., all buffs up in one round).
monk 3/barbarian 2/Fist of the Forest 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 3/Witch Slayer 2 (only for mettle). Feats and the rest of the class levels up to you, Mongrelfolk work well, but so does any race with bonus to con or strength (or dex) and no penalty to con, strength, dex, or wis. This gets you a really high AC, high saves, and evasion and mettle, and high damage and attack bonus.
Realms of Chaos
02-17-08, 01:01 PM Hey,
My friend is running an "every other weekend weekly" game under the suggestion that players create the most broken characters possible. The party, all level 2, consists currently of a warblade, 2 warlocks(that means NO to any chance of a paladin), a cleric, a fighter, a VoP monk, a bard, and an awakened monkey factotum.

SKILL MONKEY!!!!!!

seriously though, one "broken" thing that your party doesn't have is a druid. Try that.
InkBlot
02-17-08, 01:20 PM Optimized, broken, overpowered, underpowered, and munchkin are all different things.

•Something which is broken makes everybody not want to play with it anymore.

•Something which is overpowered makes everything too easy, removing the challenge and making nobody want to use it anymore (broken).

•Something which is underpowered makes the challenges impossible, making the game too frustrating, and making nobody want to use it anymore (broken).

•Something which is optimized has been analyzed and put together to do it's job well, whatever the job, although usually it's "defeat encounters of an appropriate CR using this esoteric style."

•Munchkin is an attitude of immaturity towards the game, willingness to ignore the rules, and lack of respect for other player's right to have fun while playing this game.

The party, all level 2, consists currently of a warblade, 2 warlocks(that means NO to any chance of a paladin), a cleric, a fighter, a VoP monk, a bard, and an awakened monkey factotum. I don't necessarily want make an ultra broken character, rather a character that can fit into this party of broken roles, but since most of the basic roles have been filed, the chance to play a "broken-role" character seems to be nigh. Any suggestions?

"Nigh" means "near by."

The roles haven't all been filled. You don't have a primary arcane caster in that party. Warlocks are little more than artillery. The Cleric can play Wizard to some extent, but there's probably other things he'd rather do. The Bard is a nice buffer, but doesn't have anywhere near the variety and power in his spells that a Wizard does. So play a Wizard, and be the godamn Batman.
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500)
I'm surprised at the party layout so far. Warlocks, warblades, and monks are hardly broken. A high level warlock using some neat tricks can match the damage output of a wizard of equal level, but doesn't have any of the things which make wizards one of the most powerful classes in the game. Warblades are easy to optimize but hard to break, unless you ignore WotC's statements on White Raven Tactics or abuse the ambiguity of Iron Heart Surge. The Monk with Vow Of Poverty is just competent, not broken, unless you're playing in a very low-magic-item game. Perhaps you left out some weird tricks they're employing, but so far it's a surprisingly well balanced party.
archerpwr
02-17-08, 03:32 PM •Something which is optimized has been analyzed and put together to do it's job well, whatever the job, although usually it's "defeat encounters of an appropriate CR using this esoteric style."

With the caveat that appropriate encounters generally means 4+ party level in an optimized party without really feeling in danger I agree. Unoptimized can generally take down equal CR encounters alone (for instance a level 10 core only fighter can take down a CR 10 with minimal help from the party).
sally_jones
02-17-08, 04:09 PM gestalt. you should all play gestalt.

VoP Soulknife

or.....since all the party neccesaries are covered take it as a chance to play something you have always wanted to play but werent sure it would be effective or fill any roles.
AngryJake
02-18-08, 02:43 AM Cleric, you can just break any class role.
JaronK
02-18-08, 04:17 AM Why would you want a broken character? That just means the game isn't fun, because you broke it.

But if that's really what you want, play Pun Pun. Done. Now the game is broken and you win at D&D.

JaronK
Qube
02-18-08, 06:10 AM But if that's really what you want, play Pun Pun. Done. Now the game is broken and you win at D&D.I don't think his DM will give him a candle of invokation at lvl 2 :D otherwize go for it ...
UAMDB
02-18-08, 10:43 AM Well if you want to go ulta MAD but damage dealing potential. Try this

Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 2/Rogue X

Go with
Two weapon fighting
Shadow Blade Hand* (Gives Dex in addition to Str on Damage)
Adaptive Style

After that you are free to take what ever feats you want.

This build will give you Str, Dex, and Int to damage with Short swords and daggers.

You need to go Swordsage 1st level for the feats, and choice Shadow Hand for your Discipline. OF Course this gives you weapon focus for several weapons.

* I understand that some people will argue that Shadow Hand Feat replaces Str for Dex. The actual text (not the one sentence discription) does not state remove Str. It simple says add Dex to damage. Is this a typo? Maybe but since it is the primary source, it over rides the one sentence discription. You can disagree with this, but this is not the place for that discussion.
JaronK
02-18-08, 03:03 PM I don't think his DM will give him a candle of invokation at lvl 2 :D otherwize go for it ...

You don't need a candle, you just need to be able to make a DC 25 or so Knowledge Religeon check at level 1.

And hey, he wanted broken, so he'll get broken. I'll break the game instantly and then it's no fun anymore, because everything's too easy, and that's what a broken character is.

JaronK
Soltares
02-18-08, 03:55 PM Neutral Human Cleric (negative energy channeler) of Obad-Hai with the Air and Earth Domains, starting Feats, Improved Turning, Dragonfire Channeling (Dragon Magic, use Turn/Rebuke attempts to create cones of fire).

With a Cha 14, you'll have three uses of Rebuke Undead per day, three uses of Rebuke Earth creature per day and three uses of Rebuke Air creature per day, each of which can be turned into a fire cone attack. At 3rd level, take Extra Turning, which adds four extra Turning attempts *to each Turn type you have,* which will turn your 9 cones of fire per day into 21 cones of fire per day.

When you find Undead, Air creatures or Earth creatures (such as Thoqqua) you can blow a daily Rebuke to make them your pets.

And, when you get tired of flinging cones of fire at people, or sending undead or elementals that you've rebuked at them, you are also a fully functioning Cleric...

With such a large party, a Bard twinked out for maximum Inspiration effect (Inspirational Boost spell, Song of the Heart feat, the Badge of Valor or whatever from MIC, etc.) and with the Dragonfire Inspiration feat could be fun. Sing a little song and now the rest of the party is doing +Xd6 fire damage with each melee attack!
Sinfire Titan
02-18-08, 04:04 PM SKILL MONKEY!!!!!!

seriously though, one "broken" thing that your party doesn't have is a druid. Try that.

Two words are more powerful than a 20th level Druid:

PLANAR SHEPARD!

That is all.

Disclaimer: Pun-Pun doesn't count, because Pun-Pun is everything and anything all at once.
dman11235
02-18-08, 04:13 PM Hate to say it Soltares, but only turn undead attempts (and rebuke undead) can be used to power divine feats and such. The elemental ones can only be used for just that, or the Elemental Healing feat (or any feat like that, powered by variant turnings).
RadicalTaoist
02-18-08, 06:27 PM Wait. DM asked for a broken party, and they've got two Warlocks, a Fighter, a VoP monk (because a monk didn't lack enough with all magic items denied) and a Factotum with ECL adjustment?

That's like showing up in a Ford Pinto when your buddy invites you to his personal Formula One racetrack for a grand prix. Before you go to the CO Boards, or anywhere, get a much clearer consensus of broken among your whole group.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowcast139 02-17-08, 11:48 AM	Hey, My friend is running an "every other weekend weekly" game under the suggestion that players create the most broken characters possible. The party, all level 2, consists currently of a warblade, 2 warlocks(that means NO to any chance of a paladin), a cleric, a fighter, a VoP monk, a bard, and an awakened monkey factotum. I don't necessarily want make an ultra broken character, rather a character that can fit into this party of broken roles, but since most of the basic roles have been filed, the chance to play a "broken-role" character seems to be nigh. Any suggestions? P.S: I have created posts like this in the past and gotten extremely rude responses around the lines of "try being creative instead of making other people be creative for you." Ok, I get it that you obviously have more important, heavenly-appointed tasks than to tell some 2-year DnD player how to make a fun "5th party member character (i.e: The Bard, and yes, I know the bard can hold his own in situations but this isn't a debate about that) for a huge, zany game, so please don't waste your time imparting your sacred message of "stop asking people for advice on the boards, because they weren't designed for helping people in this manner." Whew, that was a long one.... Thank you in advance to anyone who responds in a constructive and overall helpful manner.
Banatine 02-17-08, 12:03 PM	You will probably get a far more positive response to posts like this in the Character Optimisation area.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 02-17-08, 12:05 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=587555 This ought to do.
Shadowcast139 02-17-08, 12:27 PM	I thought about putting this in character optimization, but settled on "Classes and Prestige Classes" on the following reasons: 1. I am really tired. You know that feeling you get when you pull an all-nighter at a friend's house? That's close. Mind my grouchiness in my original message, I've never had much luck with these polls. 2. I think of character optimization as taking a basic character build and optimizing it to its fullest in the given situation/environment. Am I wrong on that assumption? Probably. It's not hard to be wrong on things in DnD/the polls.
dman11235 02-17-08, 12:58 PM	einvaldurinn has a good thread for this linked. But if all you want to do is have a powerful character, here are some of my creations (well, most of them I came up with by myself, whether or not someone else posted them here): paladin (yes, you can still play a paladin, as long as they aren't evil, and if they are, then play an evil paladin: UA or SRD variant classes) with lotsa domain feats, specifically animal and possibly protection, air, plant, knowledge, law, or chaos. and Battle Blessing, and levels in Ruby Knight Vindicator. Races and rest of class levels completely up to you. It's just the general idea of a paladin that is actually powerful through domain feats, swift action spells, and multiple swift actions per round (i.e., all buffs up in one round). monk 3/barbarian 2/Fist of the Forest 3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 3/Witch Slayer 2 (only for mettle). Feats and the rest of the class levels up to you, Mongrelfolk work well, but so does any race with bonus to con or strength (or dex) and no penalty to con, strength, dex, or wis. This gets you a really high AC, high saves, and evasion and mettle, and high damage and attack bonus.
Realms of Chaos 02-17-08, 01:01 PM	Hey, My friend is running an "every other weekend weekly" game under the suggestion that players create the most broken characters possible. The party, all level 2, consists currently of a warblade, 2 warlocks(that means NO to any chance of a paladin), a cleric, a fighter, a VoP monk, a bard, and an awakened monkey factotum. SKILL MONKEY!!!!!! seriously though, one "broken" thing that your party doesn't have is a druid. Try that.
InkBlot 02-17-08, 01:20 PM	Optimized, broken, overpowered, underpowered, and munchkin are all different things. •Something which is broken makes everybody not want to play with it anymore. •Something which is overpowered makes everything too easy, removing the challenge and making nobody want to use it anymore (broken). •Something which is underpowered makes the challenges impossible, making the game too frustrating, and making nobody want to use it anymore (broken). •Something which is optimized has been analyzed and put together to do it's job well, whatever the job, although usually it's "defeat encounters of an appropriate CR using this esoteric style." •Munchkin is an attitude of immaturity towards the game, willingness to ignore the rules, and lack of respect for other player's right to have fun while playing this game. The party, all level 2, consists currently of a warblade, 2 warlocks(that means NO to any chance of a paladin), a cleric, a fighter, a VoP monk, a bard, and an awakened monkey factotum. I don't necessarily want make an ultra broken character, rather a character that can fit into this party of broken roles, but since most of the basic roles have been filed, the chance to play a "broken-role" character seems to be nigh. Any suggestions? "Nigh" means "near by." The roles haven't all been filled. You don't have a primary arcane caster in that party. Warlocks are little more than artillery. The Cleric can play Wizard to some extent, but there's probably other things he'd rather do. The Bard is a nice buffer, but doesn't have anywhere near the variety and power in his spells that a Wizard does. So play a Wizard, and be the godamn Batman. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500) I'm surprised at the party layout so far. Warlocks, warblades, and monks are hardly broken. A high level warlock using some neat tricks can match the damage output of a wizard of equal level, but doesn't have any of the things which make wizards one of the most powerful classes in the game. Warblades are easy to optimize but hard to break, unless you ignore WotC's statements on White Raven Tactics or abuse the ambiguity of Iron Heart Surge. The Monk with Vow Of Poverty is just competent, not broken, unless you're playing in a very low-magic-item game. Perhaps you left out some weird tricks they're employing, but so far it's a surprisingly well balanced party.
archerpwr 02-17-08, 03:32 PM	•Something which is optimized has been analyzed and put together to do it's job well, whatever the job, although usually it's "defeat encounters of an appropriate CR using this esoteric style." With the caveat that appropriate encounters generally means 4+ party level in an optimized party without really feeling in danger I agree. Unoptimized can generally take down equal CR encounters alone (for instance a level 10 core only fighter can take down a CR 10 with minimal help from the party).
sally_jones 02-17-08, 04:09 PM	gestalt. you should all play gestalt. VoP Soulknife or.....since all the party neccesaries are covered take it as a chance to play something you have always wanted to play but werent sure it would be effective or fill any roles.
AngryJake 02-18-08, 02:43 AM	Cleric, you can just break any class role.
JaronK 02-18-08, 04:17 AM	Why would you want a broken character? That just means the game isn't fun, because you broke it. But if that's really what you want, play Pun Pun. Done. Now the game is broken and you win at D&D. JaronK
Qube 02-18-08, 06:10 AM	But if that's really what you want, play Pun Pun. Done. Now the game is broken and you win at D&D.I don't think his DM will give him a candle of invokation at lvl 2 :D otherwize go for it ...
UAMDB 02-18-08, 10:43 AM	Well if you want to go ulta MAD but damage dealing potential. Try this Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 2/Rogue X Go with Two weapon fighting Shadow Blade Hand* (Gives Dex in addition to Str on Damage) Adaptive Style After that you are free to take what ever feats you want. This build will give you Str, Dex, and Int to damage with Short swords and daggers. You need to go Swordsage 1st level for the feats, and choice Shadow Hand for your Discipline. OF Course this gives you weapon focus for several weapons. * I understand that some people will argue that Shadow Hand Feat replaces Str for Dex. The actual text (not the one sentence discription) does not state remove Str. It simple says add Dex to damage. Is this a typo? Maybe but since it is the primary source, it over rides the one sentence discription. You can disagree with this, but this is not the place for that discussion.
JaronK 02-18-08, 03:03 PM	I don't think his DM will give him a candle of invokation at lvl 2 :D otherwize go for it ... You don't need a candle, you just need to be able to make a DC 25 or so Knowledge Religeon check at level 1. And hey, he wanted broken, so he'll get broken. I'll break the game instantly and then it's no fun anymore, because everything's too easy, and that's what a broken character is. JaronK
Soltares 02-18-08, 03:55 PM	Neutral Human Cleric (negative energy channeler) of Obad-Hai with the Air and Earth Domains, starting Feats, Improved Turning, Dragonfire Channeling (Dragon Magic, use Turn/Rebuke attempts to create cones of fire). With a Cha 14, you'll have three uses of Rebuke Undead per day, three uses of Rebuke Earth creature per day and three uses of Rebuke Air creature per day, each of which can be turned into a fire cone attack. At 3rd level, take Extra Turning, which adds four extra Turning attempts to each Turn type you have, which will turn your 9 cones of fire per day into 21 cones of fire per day. When you find Undead, Air creatures or Earth creatures (such as Thoqqua) you can blow a daily Rebuke to make them your pets. And, when you get tired of flinging cones of fire at people, or sending undead or elementals that you've rebuked at them, you are also a fully functioning Cleric... With such a large party, a Bard twinked out for maximum Inspiration effect (Inspirational Boost spell, Song of the Heart feat, the Badge of Valor or whatever from MIC, etc.) and with the Dragonfire Inspiration feat could be fun. Sing a little song and now the rest of the party is doing +Xd6 fire damage with each melee attack!
Sinfire Titan 02-18-08, 04:04 PM	SKILL MONKEY!!!!!! seriously though, one "broken" thing that your party doesn't have is a druid. Try that. Two words are more powerful than a 20th level Druid: PLANAR SHEPARD! That is all. Disclaimer: Pun-Pun doesn't count, because Pun-Pun is everything and anything all at once.
dman11235 02-18-08, 04:13 PM	Hate to say it Soltares, but only turn undead attempts (and rebuke undead) can be used to power divine feats and such. The elemental ones can only be used for just that, or the Elemental Healing feat (or any feat like that, powered by variant turnings).
RadicalTaoist 02-18-08, 06:27 PM	Wait. DM asked for a broken party, and they've got two Warlocks, a Fighter, a VoP monk (because a monk didn't lack enough with all magic items denied) and a Factotum with ECL adjustment? That's like showing up in a Ford Pinto when your buddy invites you to his personal Formula One racetrack for a grand prix. Before you go to the CO Boards, or anywhere, get a much clearer consensus of broken among your whole group.