Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neofish 07-05-07, 06:41 PM	"Let me tell you of Krey the Wave Breaker! Greatest is he among all Martial adepts! For it is he who forged the path that smashed the Stone lords upon high and drown out the rays of the Sun disciples! Praise Be to Krey and his teachings of the mighty waves! - Rolkar the Sea Wolf before the navel battle of the Thunder seas. Founded by a weathered and dour warblade by the name Krey, who later became known as Krey the Wave Breaker, Broken Wave is a young discipline that emphasizes heavy handed strikes and charges aimed at repositioning enemies and driving foes back, aswell as swift moments used for retreating and advancing deep into enemy formations. Many a Broken Wave adept routinly sees active duty in various kingdoms as shock troops and marines, as the school is ideal for breaking formations and battles lines. Aswell as knocking and draging foes off ships, casting their fate to the mercy of the seas. "Heh, so you seek the Den Mother do ye? Saying ya do find her, you think they will even bar you passage? What makes ye think you've got the stuff to learn what that school has to offer? I tell ya, it takes more to breaking a wave than getting yer feet wet!..." "Hmmmn... Well then, if ye truely have yer heart set in learning that school. I guess I had better tell a thing or two about Broken Wave... It started with a young and arrogant warbalde named Krey. Not much is known about him, as it is hard to tell fact from legend. Depending on who be tellin the story, Krey may be recalled as a beast of a man, tall and broad like the waves he would latter become famous for taming. Still, others insist he was small and lean, hair an iron shade of grey despite his youth. Though his appearence changes with each retalling of the tale, all can agree upon his legendary deeds..." " They say he was found washed ashore as a child, held tightly in the cradling grip of dead mother. The man who found him was an old hobgoblin who had once been a proud and mighty master of the sword. But the horrors of conflict, both physical and emotional gave cause for him to cast aside his sword and take up the life of a simple hermit. The hobgoblin, now of a kinder and empathetic demeanor, took pity on upon the child and decided to raise him as his own. The hobgoblin named the boy Krey, a name that belonged to the local crustations that were the hobgoblins favorite food. the hobgoblin taught the boy to read and write, to fish, and with time, the ways of the sword. At first, his martial teachings were only givin out to help better pass the time, but as the hobgoblin saw that young Krey was intrigued and enamoured by even the smallest lession given, he made a choice. He would teach Krey all that he knew. From them on, from moring till nightfall, the hobgoblin trained young Krey in all manner of martial techniques. Every stance executed to prefection, every strike repeated until mastered. The hobgoblin fashioned wooden swords made of driftwood for he and the boy to train with. Many were broken under the sheer might placed behind them. But the hobgoblin would fashion more for more, if only for them to be shattered in the next day's lession. Nearly two decades passed since the boy washed ashore. Now a man of wrought sinew and terrible skill. Krey would now learn another lession, but not by his teacher's hand. Upon the twenty first anneversery of Krey's washing ashore, the hobgoblin decided to give the boy a gift, he proclaimed that if the boy were to become a great warrior he would need an equally great blade. It was decided that the Krey and his master would travel to the nearest city and request for a sword to be forged for him. It would within the walls of this far off city that Krey would have his first taste of violence..." "It would seem that old wrongs are never forgotton, and that a man can never truly escape his past..." I gotton run, so i'll finish the rest later, is it to long? Should I just shorten the whole thing up? Broken Wave One must be unceasing and presistant in his attacks. A true warrior remains determined in every strike. He can always break and overcome his enemy, no matter how tenacious or great, if he stays at it long enough. A practitioner of this discipline seeks to become like the roaring seas, able to maneuver around and manipluate his opponents, overcoming every obsticle in his way. Unrelenting force and determination make up most of the Broken wave's teachings. Maximizing ones momentum and balance are crutial to this school, so Balance is the key skill for this discipline. The club, glaive, greatclub (often fashioned in the like of a massive, blunt, wooden sword), morning star, sickle and unarmed strike are the associated weapons for Broken Wave. The Broken Wave Discipline is only availble to Warblades. Maneuvers and Stance List 1st. Against the tide: Counter - Replace opposed str or dex ability check with a blance check instead Roaring Wave: Strike- Make balance check, deal +1d6 extra damage, move opponent 5ft. Shifting Seas: Boost- After successful melee attack, take a 5ft. step Wave Cutter: Stance- suffer no penalties for using a slashing or bludgeoning weapon while underwater. 2nd. Aqua Lung: Stance- Gain a bonus to all Consitution checks made to prevent drowning equal to your initaitor level. Sweeping Undercurrent: Strike- attack deals extra +1d6 damage, knocks foe prone. Rabid Tidal Rush: Strike- Charging bullrush grants bonuses to opposed strength checks and a penalty to armor class based upon distanced moved. knocks opponent back and prone. 3rd. Devouring Wave: strike- May initaite a grapple after successful melee attack. Battering Waves: Strike- Charging bullrush deals extra damage based upon distance travelled, may daze foe. Stem the Tide: Counter- Make opposed attack roll against attacking opponent, if successful, prevents attack and knocks foe prone. Tsunami Stride: Stance- Ignore difficult terrain, gain bonuses on strength and deterity checks based upon distance moved. 4th. Kraken's Embrace: Strike- Sucessful grapple check against pinned opponent renders them unconcious for 1 round. Rolling Seas: Boost- After successful melee attack, may make a 10ft. step. Unrelenting fury of the Seas: Boost- May make an additional attack against an opponent you moved this round. Deals extra damage based on how far opponent was moved this turn 5th. Furious Roaring Wave: Strike- 6d6 damage, knock foe back 10 feet and prone. Turn the Tide: Counter- Make opposed attack against opponent, if successful, deal weapon damage and knock foe prone. (All currently concepts and require more work) Cast Away: Strike- Make a melee attack against every adjecent opponent, knock them back 5 feet. 6th. Weight of the Fathoms: Strike- knock foe prone and dazed. Crushing Depths: Strike- successful check against pinned opponent pralyzes him for 1d4 rounds. Inescapable Riptide: Boost- Gain bonus on grapple check, deal bludgeoning damage. 7th. whirlpool thrust: strike- strike every adjecent opponent, knock them back 10 feet and prone High tide: Stance- May overrun opponents during regular movement, but each opponent filled square counts as 2 sqaures of movement. Crushing Waves: Strike- charging bullrush deals damage, knocks foe back, dazes foe 8th. White Squall: Strike- Balance check Deals damage, knocks foe back very far and prone, stuns. Rising tide: Stance- Opponents provoke attack of oppotunity if they don't move away from you on thier turn, this attack of oppotunity may only be spent on trip attempts. 9th. Maelstrom: Strike- Move twice your movement, gain bonuses to attack and damage based upon distanced moved, bullrush anyone you come into contact with, may move them any direction, knock them prone.
Neofish 07-05-07, 06:52 PM	Maneuver Descriptions. Against the Tide Broken Wave (Counter) Level: Warblade 1 Prerequisite: Initiation action: 1 immediate action Range: Personal Target: You You lean into your oncomming opponent. Bracing yourself for the impact. One of the first lessions taught to young Wave adepts is to stand against the tide. By learning how to throw your weight against the oncomming waves, one learns how to better retain thier balance and better brace themselves against mometious assualts. Whenever you are required to make an opposed stregnth or dexterity check, you may initiate this maneuver. You may make a Balance check instead of a strength or dexterity check. Unlike a normal balance checks, you may choose to apply your strengh modifier rather your dexterity modifier to this check. In addition, all the normal modifiers for the ability check still apply (such as size and stability, in addition to any modifiers to your strength checks you would recieve from any Broken Wave maneuvers). Aqua Lung Broken Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 2 Prerequisite: One Broken Wave Maneuver Initiation action: 1swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance With a deep, reserving calm you slow your lungs and heartbeat, wasting little of the air in your lungs. You learn to slow your breathing and calm your heartbeat, allowing you to survive on a minimal ammount of air while underwater. Legends say that the most accomplished Wave adepts can remain underwater for hours at a time. While in this stance, you gain a number of benefits based upon your initiator level. Level Benefit 1-5 :You may hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to 3 times your consititution score before any risk of drowning 6-10 :You may hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times your consititution score before any risk of drowning 11-15 :You may hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to 5 times your consititution score before any risk of drowning 16+ :You may hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to 6 times your consititution score before any risk of drowning If you are removed from this stance unwilling, you revert back to your normal limitations as to how long you can hold your breath. If you have exceeded this limit and are removed from this stance, you gain a +4 bonus on your next constitution check to resist the effects of drowning. Battering Waves Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 3 Prerequisite: One Broken Wave Maneuver Initiation Action: 1 full-round action Range: Melee attack Target: One creature Saving Throw: Fortitude You crash into your opponent like the waves of a furious storm, you thrash your opponent about, repeadedly smashing into him and pushing him around the battlefield. As part of this Maneuver, you make a bullrush attack as part of a charge. Neither the movement, nor the bull rush attack provokes an attack of oppotunity. For every 10 feet you move before the bullrush attack, you gain a cumulitive +2 bonus to your opposed strength check. If your check result exceeds your opponent's result, you push him back as normal. Assuming your check result is high enough, you can push your opponent back more than 5 feet (as per a normal bullrush), except that for every 5 feet you push your opponent back, you may also push him 5 feet to the left or the right. After the results of the bullrush are resolved, you deal blugeoning damage equal to 1d6 + an additional 1d6 for every 5 feet you pushed your opponent back + your strength modifier, your opponent must also make a Fortidude save (DC 13+ your strength modifier + 1 for every 5 feet you pushed your opponent back) or be dazed for one round. Devouring Wave Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 3 Prerequisite: One Broken Wave Maneuver Initiation Action: 1 standard action Range: Melee attack Target: One creature Your powerful strike knocks your opponent off guard, allowing you to grab hold of him and force him to the ground. As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack, you deal an additional 4d6 points of bludgeoning damage. If the attack is successful, you may make a free grapple attempt. You must have at least one hand free in order to make this grapple check, and may choose (as a free action) to drop your weapon or loose a readied shield. No touch attack is nesscessary, nor does it provoke an attack of oppotunity. You gain a +4 on this grapple attempt. Furious Roaring Wave Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 5 Prerequisite: Two Broken Wave Maneuvers Initiation Action: 1 standard Action Range: Melee attack Target: One creature With a fearsome roar you throw all your weight behind a crushing blow, knocking your opponent tumbling to the ground. As part of this manevuver, you make a balance check to throw all of your weight behind melee attack. The Balance check's DC is equal to your opponent's AC. If the check succeeds, your melee attack deals an extra 6d6 points of damage and you push your opponent either 10ft. back, to the left, or to the right, you cannot push your opponent into occupied sqaures and this movment does not provoke attacks of oppotunity. At the end of this movement, your opponent falls prone. If the check fails, you may still attack your opponent, but you do not deal extra damage and you don't not push your opponent, but this maneuver is still considered expended. Kraken's Embrace Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 4 Prerequisite: Two Broken Wave Maneuvers Initiation Action: 1 Standard action Range: grapple Target: One Creature Like the fearsome Krakens of the depths, you latch onto your opponent and sqeeze the life out of him You viciously wrap your arms and legs around your opponents neck and squeeze.If you are currently in a grapple against an opponent you have pinned, you may initiate this action. Make a grapple ckeck, you gain a +4 bonus to this check. If successful, you deal bludgeoning damage equal to 4d6+ your strength modifier and your opponent must make a Fortitude save (DC 14+ your Strength modifier) or become stunned for 1 round. A successful save merely dazes your foe instead of stunning him. Rabid Tidal Rush Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 2 Prerequisite: One Broken Wave Maneuver Initiation action: 1 Full-round action Range: Melee attack Target: One creature With a wild rush, you crash into your opponent, focing him off balance and driving him back. As part of this maneuver, you make a bull rush attack as part of a charge. Neither the movement, nor the bull rush attack provokes an attack of oppotunity. For every 10 feet you move before the bullrush attack, you gain a cumulitive +2 bonus to your opposed strength check and a -1 penalty to your AC, these modifiers last until until the begining of your next turn. If your check exceeds your opponent's result, you push him back 5 feet as normal. Assuming your strength check is high enough, you can push your opponent back more than 5feet (as normal for a bull rush). After the bullrush attack has been resolved, make a melee attack against the same opponent that you selectd for this bullrush attempt. You gain a cumulitive +1 bonus to your attack and damage roll for every 5 feet you pushed your opponent back using this maneuver. Roaring Wave Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 1 Prerequisite: Initiation action: 1standard action Range: Melee attack Target: One creature With a deep roar and a mighty swing you hammer into your opponent, driving him back. You have learned to throw all your weight behind you attacks, and keeping with the momentum of the intial swing, you follow through, focing your opponent to move. As part of this manevuver, you make a balance check to throw all of your weight behind melee attack. The Balance check's DC is equal to your opponent's AC. If the check succeeds, your melee attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage and you push your opponent either 5ft. back, to the left, or to the right, you cannot push your opponent into occupied sqaures and this movment does not provoke attacks of oppotunity. If the check fails, you may still attack your opponent, but you do not deal extra damage and you don't not push your opponent, but this maneuver is still considered expended. Rolling Seas Broken Wave (Boost) Level: Warblade 4 Prerequisites: Two Broken Wave Maneuvers Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You You slip in and about your opponents with ease, like water through a crack in a castle's foundation. After you make a successful melee attack, you may initiate this maneuver. You may take move up to 10 feet. Like a 5ft. step, this movement does not provoke an attack of oppotunity. Shifting Seas Broken Wave (Boost) Level: Warblade 1 Prerequisite: One Broken Wave Maneuver Initiation action: 1swift action Range: Personal Target: You In the vital seconds after you break your opponent's guard, you quickly shift your position. Like the ever moving waters of the sea, you are always on the move, constantly moving in and out and all around your opponents. After you make a successful melee attack, you may initiate this maneuver. You may take a 5ft. step. Like all 5ft. steps, this does not provoke an attack of oppotunity. Stem the Tide Broken Wave (Counter) Level: Warblade 3 Prerequisites: One Broken Wave Maneuver Initiation Action: 1 immediate action Range: Melee attack Target: One Creature With crutial timing, you lunge at an attacking adversairy, knocking him off balance and foiling his attack A natural extension upon the against the tide teachings. You wait until the very instant your opponent attacks before slaming into him, ducking under his blow and throwing him off balance. Whenever an opponent makes a melee attack against you, you may initiate this maneuver before the results of the attack roll are known. You and your opponent make an opposed Strength check. if your strength check result is higher than your opponent's, the attack is negated and your opponent is pushed back 5 feet, in addition, he is considered flat-footed until the beginning of his next turn. This movement does not provoke an attack of oppotunity. Sweeping Undercurrent Broken Wave (Strike) Level: Warblade 2 Prerequisite: Initiation action: 1 standard action Range: melee attack Target: One creature With a hard and fast swing you knock the legs out form under your opponent. As part of this Maneuver, you make a melee attack, it deals an extra 1d6 points of damage. If the attack is successful, you and your opponent make an opposed strength check, treat this as a trip attempt, except your opponent may not attemot to trip if you fail your opposing roll. Tsunami Stride Broken Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 3 Prerequisite: Two Broken Wave Maneuvers Initiation Action: 1 swfit action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance You effortlessly plow over any obsticle and cross any ground, like a raging tusunami devouring the shore. Wave adepts constantly train waist deep in water, sprinting over loose sand, jagged rocks and wicked coral in an attempt to build muscle, mantain their balance in any situation and to mantain momentum despite what lies underneath their feet. While in this Stance, you ignore penalties to speed, movement or skill checks associated with movement incurred by moving through difficult terrain. In addition, while in this stance, you gain a cumulitive +1 bonus to all opposed strength or dexterity checks for every 5 feet you move during the round, these bonuses last until the beginning of your next turn. Turn the Tide Broken Wave (Counter) Level: Warblade 5 Prerequisite: Two Broken Wave Meaneuvers Range: Melee attack Target: One Creature With a well timed strike, you deflect your opponent's attack and cleave into him. Whenever an opponent makes a melee attack against you, you may initiate this maneuver before the results of the attack roll are known. You must also be armed with a melee weapon in order to intiate this maneuver Make an opposed attack roll, if your attack roll result is higher than your opponent's, the attack is negated and you deal damage to your opponent equal to the weapon damage used for the opposed attack roll, plus an additional 2d6 points of damage. Your opponent must then make a Fortitude save (DC 15+ your strength modifier) or be dazed for 1 round. He must then also make a Reflex save (DC 5 + damage dealt) or fall prone. Unrelenting Fury of the Seas Broken Wave (Boost) Level: Warblade 4 Prerequisite: Two Broken Wave Maneuvers Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Melee attack Target: One creature You are relentless in your assault, striking and driving your opponent in a constant fashion. You may initiate this maneuver only against an opponent you have pushed at least 5 feet this turn. Make a melee attack, it deals an additional 4d6 damage. Wave Cutter Broken Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 1 Prerequisite: Initiation action: 1swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance Your powerful strokes are unhindered by the surrounding water One of the basic training methods used by water adepts is wave cutting. In which they spend hours slashing and hacking against the waves and currents in and out of the water, not only does this build strength, but it also gives the adept a familiarity with his surroundings. While in this stance, you don't suffer penalties to attack and damage rolls when using a bludgeoning or slashing weapon while underwater, attacking into water, or attacking out of water.
periscope 07-05-07, 09:02 PM	You may want to ask to put this in the Martial Compendium. They have a lot of experience with making new disciplines and this looks like it might be a good one.
Neofish 07-05-07, 10:57 PM	Guess this is where i'll post the PrC if I make one...
periscope 07-06-07, 03:16 PM	your choice, though I do think you should at least post the flavor text and the ideas you have in the Martial Compendium. They come up with a lot of great ideas and they are really willing to help make more paths (like the falling star, eternal mount, unquiet twilight, etc).
Neofish 07-06-07, 05:01 PM	your choice, though I do think you should at least post the flavor text and the ideas you have in the Martial Compendium. They come up with a lot of great ideas and they are really willing to help make more paths (like the falling star, eternal mount, unquiet twilight, etc). Fair enough.
periscope 07-06-07, 08:53 PM	I like the theme you've developed for it. Quick questions though: Since a number of maneuvers involve grappling, why isnt unarmed strike included in their favored weapons? Also if you use a maneuver that allows you to initiate a grapple, what happens to your weapon and shield (if any)? If its a light weapon, can you go into the grapple with it or do you have to drop it? Also, since a number of the maneuvers you have up involve either bullrushing, tripping, or grappling can I suggest a stance like this (we made one similar to this for setting sun in our games but it'd fit with you): Like a tidal wave, you will not be stopped. While in this stance, you negate all size bonuses your opponent may have for the purposes of grappling, bullrushing, and tripping (so they gain no bonus to these checks against you based on size). Any penalties remain. Also, this sounds more like a crusader school than a Warblade school. Aqua lung sounds like it would be related to meditation and prayer and the flavor (persistence and unceasing, using unrelenting force and determination) seem, to me, more fitting the crusader than the warblade. Though it is your school.
Neofish 07-06-07, 11:47 PM	I like the theme you've developed for it. Quick questions though: Since a number of maneuvers involve grappling, why isnt unarmed strike included in their favored weapons? I had originally put unarmed strike down as one of its perferred weapons, but later removed it for some unknown reason. Also if you use a maneuver that allows you to initiate a grapple, what happens to your weapon and shield (if any)? If its a light weapon, can you go into the grapple with it or do you have to drop it? Good question, I figured that this maneuver would most likely be used in conjunction with wolverine stance, so I guess I hadn't given the full ammount of thought it deserved. Any suggestions on I should go about ammending the strike? Also, since a number of the maneuvers you have up involve either bullrushing, tripping, or grappling can I suggest a stance like this (we made one similar to this for setting sun in our games but it'd fit with you): Like a tidal wave, you will not be stopped. While in this stance, you negate all size bonuses your opponent may have for the purposes of grappling, bullrushing, and tripping (so they gain no bonus to these checks against you based on size). Any penalties remain. Well see, the idea was that the initiatior would have to build up momentum to negate various size modifiers, thus most of the bull rush maneuvers grant bonuses for distance moved before the attack is made. Also, That's why I made Tsunami stride, which I figured would be the end all stance Wave adept would use as it grants a hefty ammount of modifers that last until the beginning of your next turn, meaning they stay to help you make opposed attempts from opponents who wish to trip or bullrush you themselves. The only thing this doesnt cover is grapple, which I admit is kinda lacking in support, because when I envisioned the school, its priorities were as such. Bullrushing> Tripping> Maneuvering Boosts> Grappling. Grappling kinda came last with Kraken's embrace, then I figured grabbing and holding opponents seemed to fit the oceanic theme rather well. Also, this sounds more like a crusader school than a Warblade school. Aqua lung sounds like it would be related to meditation and prayer and the flavor (persistence and unceasing, using unrelenting force and determination) seem, to me, more fitting the crusader than the warblade. Though it is your school. See, I personally is it as an heavy offensive school, which the crusader has nothing of. All the Crusader's abilities seem far more defensive in nature, and a school that provides a means in which to rush into a crowded area and strat throwing enemies about doesnt didnt seem to fit in my mind. Also, alot of the warblade maneuvers embody alot of self discipline, I mean, he wouldn't have access to the diamond mind school eat all if he couldnt exert some self control. Perhaps just a reflavoring of the maneuver is in order? Or perhaps I should just nix it entriely? I wanted the school to have an aquatic bent without going into supernatural, thus things like wave cutter and aqua lung, they help emmensly in underwater combat, but dont make you grow gills or anything.
Crashy75 07-06-07, 11:52 PM	Hello! I did notice one thing off the bat. Wave Cutter Broken Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 1 Prerequisite: Initiation action: 1swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance Your powerful strokes are unhindered by the surrounding water One of the basic training methods used by water adepts is wave cutting. In which they spend hours slashing and hacking against the waves and currents in and out of the wave, not only does this build strength, but it also gives the adept a familiarity of his surrounds. While in this stance, you don't suffer penalties to attack and damage rolls when using a bludgeoning or slashing weapon while underwater, attacking into water, or attacking out of water. This seems a little too specific. Perhaps this maneuver could apply to other environments. Solid fog comes to mind.
Neofish 07-07-07, 12:14 AM	Hello! I did notice one thing off the bat. This seems a little too specific. Perhaps this maneuver could apply to other environments. Solid fog comes to mind. good point, i'll look into that, I mean, what other things do you think he could this training encompass? Only a few things come ot mind, Sand perhaps, soild fog, perhaps negating the attack penalty of slow spells? And ouch, after looking at the quote, I see now that I need to tidy up my grammer, it looks horrid.
Crashy75 07-07-07, 02:19 AM	good point, i'll look into that, I mean, what other things do you think he could this training encompass? Only a few things come ot mind, Sand perhaps, soild fog, perhaps negating the attack penalty of slow spells? And ouch, after looking at the quote, I see now that I need to tidy up my grammer, it looks horrid. I should probably change my sig some time soon. I'm not a grammar nazi. In fact, I have dyslexia. I do use the spell check frequently. As for the stance, I'm drawing a blank for the moment. It's a level one ability so perhaps it shouldn't completely negate higher-level spells but it could still mitigate the penalties.
periscope 07-07-07, 02:25 AM	Im not sure how you'd go about the grapple strikes. I could see them dropping everything but light weapons (who hasnt heard of the guy who jumps on the huge :insert monster: with only a knife?). However I do not know how you'd go about the shields. Just dropping would seem like the easiest way, but then noone would use them unless there is a very good reason to drop the shield (like its wood so it'll float up top and you want to see the bleeper drown or eat dirt). I must have missed Tsunami stride, sorry. Though I do think it might need a big brother when you hit colossal monsters. Mayb one that granted a +2 per 5 feet you moved? Its situational (your not always going to have so many feet between you and teh guy or he'll be closer than that) so a boost wouldnt be gamebreaking.
Magocrat 07-07-07, 07:04 AM	The Broken Wave discipline has been added to the Martial Compendium, as you requested. Also, I'd like to say that this is, as others said, a good discipline. It has an innovative theme that hasn't been explored and good maneuvers. I'll see if I can find something that might need to be corrected by you, if it's necessary. The aqua lung stance gives you a bonus on saves to resist drowning. However, you only risk drowning when you're almost out of air, and things tend to go pretty much downhill at that point, with rapidly increasing DCs of saving throws. Maybe you could grant the initiator a longer time during which he can hold his breath, similar to the lizardfolk's ability. You could key it to initiator level, meaning that your flavor text holds water. If you use the battering wave maneuver, do you incur attacks of opportunity from running through threatened squares, or do you stop provoking attacks of opportunity from everyone? For the rest, it's an interesting maneuver, very novel. Maneuvers in the Tome of Battle usually list their effects fully, instead of saying "As...", but that's your call. (I'm talking about furious roaring wave here.) You might want to explicitly state that you must be in a grapple to use kraken's embrace. Also, falling unconscious for one round is rather clunky, you might want to use another effect. I like the take on the constrict ability, though. Rabid tidal rush looks a bit like battering wave, I think you might want to differentiate the two a bit more. It's a bit awkward to list a prerequisite for a level one maneuver, with the shifting seas maneuver. For as far as I can tell, a maneuver usually has prerequisites depending on its level, with 3rd- and 4th-level maneuvers having one maneuver as a prerequisite, 5th- and 6th-level maneuvers two, 7th- and 8th-level maneuvers three, and 9th-level maneuvers three. This can shift a bit depending on the overall power of a discipline, but your power level looks pretty much spot on. (Okay, back to what I was supposed to look at.) You could give a bonus to saves against damaging terrain effects, such as caltrops and spike stones, with the tsunami stride stance. Turn the tide looks a bit like stem the tide, I think you might want to differentiate the two a bit more. For the rest, it looks very good, and I hope that you'll make this into a good, finished discipline in time. However, I've got a little suggestion that popped up in my mind while reviewing the maneuvers. Impetuous Tide Battering Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 2 Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Every time you relentlessly crash into your opponent, you throw him off balance, leaving him open to attacks. As long as you are in this stance, an opponent that you successfully bull rush takes a penalty to Armor Class equal to the number of squares that it moved through. This penalty lasts for 1 round. However, you may also make a Dexterity or Strength check opposed by your opponent's Armor Class instead of incurring the penalty on your opponent. If you succeed on this check, your opponent is flat-footed instead for 1 round instead.
Neofish 07-07-07, 01:13 PM	Im not sure how you'd go about the grapple strikes. I could see them dropping everything but light weapons (who hasnt heard of the guy who jumps on the huge :insert monster: with only a knife?). However I do not know how you'd go about the shields. Just dropping would seem like the easiest way, but then noone would use them unless there is a very good reason to drop the shield (like its wood so it'll float up top and you want to see the bleeper drown or eat dirt). Indeed, it just means that I should add more grappling maneuvers to make this option more inticing to use. Originally, the maneuver was a boost, do you think it should return as such? I must have missed Tsunami stride, sorry. Though I do think it might need a big brother when you hit colossal monsters. Mayb one that granted a +2 per 5 feet you moved? Its situational (your not always going to have so many feet between you and teh guy or he'll be closer than that) so a boost wouldnt be gamebreaking. Again, before I put it on the forums I watered it down abit, chargin the bonus granted from +2 for every 5 feet to only +1, the more I look at it, the mroe I agree that +2 would be far better without being overboard.
Neofish 07-07-07, 01:55 PM	The Broken Wave discipline has been added to the Martial Compendium, as you requested. Also, I'd like to say that this is, as others said, a good discipline. It has an innovative theme that hasn't been explored and good maneuvers. I'll see if I can find something that might need to be corrected by you, if it's necessary. Thank you. The aqua lung stance gives you a bonus on saves to resist drowning. However, you only risk drowning when you're almost out of air, and things tend to go pretty much downhill at that point, with rapidly increasing DCs of saving throws. Maybe you could grant the initiator a longer time during which he can hold his breath, similar to the lizardfolk's ability. You could key it to initiator level, meaning that your flavor text holds water. thats a good point, perhaps something as simple as "you may hold your breath for an additional number of rounds equal to your initaitor level?" Or perhaps something like this " You may hold your breath for an additional number of rounds equal to your Initiator level x your consititution modifier"? If, as you suggested, it were more akin to the lizardfolk ability, would it not look like this? "While in this stance, you may hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to your constitution score x your initiator level." The bottom one seems like a bit much, but then again, 2nd level stances are hard to get without giving up a 3rd level choice, using a feat or multiclassing, and it does fit the fluff the best... If you use the battering wave maneuver, do you incur attacks of opportunity from running through threatened squares, or do you stop provoking attacks of opportunity from everyone? For the rest, it's an interesting maneuver, very novel. It states that only the bullrush attack doesn't provoke an AoO, meaning the part where you step into your opponent's sqaure. The rest would follow the rules for bullrushing, meaning you would indeed suffer AoO for moving out of threatend squares. Do you think that it makes it to weak if you provoke AoO, I spent alot of time watering down my maneuvers before I posted them here because I didn't want stuff to seem to over the top, plus, it's easier to build up rather than scale down imo. Maneuvers in the Tome of Battle usually list their effects fully, instead of saying "As...", but that's your call. (I'm talking about furious roaring wave here.) Absolutly right, I will go ahead and ammend those. You might want to explicitly state that you must be in a grapple to use kraken's embrace. Also, falling unconscious for one round is rather clunky, you might want to use another effect. I like the take on the constrict ability, though. It was supposed to mock the effects of drowing, in which, the first thin you do is fall unconcious for a round. But you are right, perhaps stunning or paralyzing would be better? Rabid tidal rush looks a bit like battering wave, I think you might want to differentiate the two a bit more. Your right, the main difference as of right now is that one just shoves and opponent far back while the other allows you to drag your opponent all across the field. Originally, Rabid tidal rush was either going to give your oppoent AC equal to the distance he was pushed back or, it was going to grant you attack and damage modifers against him equal to the distance you moved him, followed by an attack at the end, rather than dealing damage for slaming into him. It's a bit awkward to list a prerequisite for a level one maneuver, with the shifting seas maneuver. For as far as I can tell, a maneuver usually has prerequisites depending on its level, with 3rd- and 4th-level maneuvers having one maneuver as a prerequisite, 5th- and 6th-level maneuvers two, 7th- and 8th-level maneuvers three, and 9th-level maneuvers three. This can shift a bit depending on the overall power of a discipline, but your power level looks pretty much spot on. (Okay, back to what I was supposed to look at.) Well, I feel that shifting seas is very powerful, because being able to get out of reach from an opponent after hitting him is nasty. The prerequisite means you would have to be fairly deticated to Broken wave earily on, in which many manuever's already push your opponent away, so moving after than isnt as big a deal. Also, Tiger does the same thing with it's first level maneuvers, forcing you to take Wolf fang strike before any other tiger claw maneuver (as its the only one without a prerequsite), I know this kinda shoehorns it a little bit, but it's better than someone gaiving both Shifting seas and sudden leap without much thought (they can still have both, but doing so requires them to take wave cutter instead of another stance, which makes for a hard first level choice). Btw, 7-8th level maneuvers require 4 known maneuvers, and the 9th's require a staggering 5 maneuvers known. You could give a bonus to saves against damaging terrain effects, such as caltrops and spike stones, with the tsunami stride stance. That's true, but do you think it would make it over the top if it also granted a +2 modifer rather than just +1? Turn the tide looks a bit like stem the tide, I think you might want to differentiate the two a bit more. Yeah, I was thinking about reworking both of those abilities, in which you make either opposed strength checks or balance checks. They are supposed to be similair, as the are supposed to show a pogressing mastery of wave cutting, first its Against the Tide (facing the wave), then Stem the Tide (stopping the wave from hurting or moving you) and finally Turn the tide (driving the wave back and upon itself) I'm think Stem the tide should just stop an incoming attack and maybe knock your opponent prone in his sqaure, or drop the prone part and bump it down to a 2nd level maneuver, where the rest of the parry and dodge maneuvers are. I think Turn the tide should encompass a counter bullrush, in which not only do you rebound the attack, but you push your opponent away. I was also thinking of adding another counter to the couter tide chain, Embracing the tide (or the wave, or the seas), in which, if your opponent attacks you and misses (or [which I think fits better] if he successfully hits you), you may make an immeadiate grapple against them. For the rest, it looks very good, and I hope that you'll make this into a good, finished discipline in time. However, I've got a little suggestion that popped up in my mind while reviewing the maneuvers. As do I, and it's always better to have more opinions and views on the subject. Impetuous Tide Battering Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 2 Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Every time you relentlessly crash into your opponent, you throw him off balance, leaving him open to attacks. As long as you are in this stance, an opponent that you successfully bull rush takes a penalty to Armor Class equal to the number of squares that it moved through. This penalty lasts for 1 round. However, you may also make a Dexterity or Strength check opposed by your opponent's Armor Class instead of incurring the penalty on your opponent. If you succeed on this check, your opponent is flat-footed instead for 1 round instead. I like it, but at the same time I think it's to much. The AC aspect I think is perfect as it does exactly what I had in mind with my original fluff (Where the broken wave school was created to defeat a Stone Dragon Master who couldnt be moved and Setting Sun master who be overpowerred). The flat footed aspect could made into a boost that perhaps just requires a balance check against your opponent's AC? What do you think it would be called? tricky tide? Deceptive sands of the Shore? Final Push? Rock the Boat? I dunno, But I will add Impetuous Tide for sure for sure. Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions, I will add this all later today. Great additions all around.
fatal error 07-07-07, 02:07 PM	This saddens me, I was just pondering making a ground fighting/grappling discipline, and look what greets me on the forums! Anyway, it looks good so far, keep up the good work. And stop with the telepathic stealing of my ideas.
Neofish 07-07-07, 02:34 PM	This saddens me, I was just pondering making a ground fighting/grappling discipline, and look what greets me on the forums! Anyway, it looks good so far, keep up the good work. And stop with the telepathic stealing of my ideas. Hey buddy, don't let me stop you! Almost all of these grappling maneuvers I had in mind involve just trying to immoblizing people while they drown, that's it. I wanted the discipline ot focue more about bullrushing than anything else.
wolfie-kun 07-07-07, 04:55 PM	I don't have any specific mechanical suggestions, but your entries are kind of hard to read. There's the occasional spelling error, but the big problem is that some of your sentences contain too much information. If the attack is successful, you may make a free grapple attempt, no touch attack is nesscessary, nor does it provoke an attack of oppotunity. Something like that could be safely split up into two sentences at least without removing pertinent information or changing what it says, and doing so would make it just a little easier to read and comprehend.
periscope 07-07-07, 06:24 PM	For the Krakens Embrace, what about if it simulated drowning? After initiating, the victim must begin making constitution checks as if they were drowning. Though you'd need to move it up, since right after unconsciousness is death. Maybe instead of death, it'll begin inflicting Constitution damage for the duration of the stance? Ive no idea whether the grapple maneuvers should be a boost. If you did that, you could initiate most boosts after you do a maneuver which may provide a bonus to the grapple check (they do get nasty when you get to higher levels). Would that be overpowering? Any ideas for a legacy weapon? Maybe the aqua lung maneuver could possibly let them hold their breath for 1 minute per point of constitution stat instead of the normal 1 round per point of constitution. Possibly with bonus minutes equal to their initiator level.
Magocrat 07-07-07, 07:23 PM	For the aqua lung stance, I don't know exactly how you could do that. However, my idea is that it could be balanced around the lizardfolk hold breath ability. With a little bit of handiwork in the mechanics, an initiator could hold his breath for a little less longer than a lizardfolk at first, but then longer. (Perhaps with a progression of 2 x your Constitution modifier to 6 x your Constitution modifier. Maybe 2 + one-fourth your initiator level (rounded down) multiplied by your Constitution modifier? Just a suggestion.) The battering wave maneuver looks good as it is. Charging without provoking attacks of opportunity is quite powerful, probably deserving at least a 2nd-level maneuver on its own, so you're good to go on that one. And you have a good point with the scaling up and down; plus, it decreases the probability of someone screaming "Broken!" without saying anything useful, which in turn gives you a higher chance of success. periscope's idea for the kraken's embrace maneuver is a good one. Heck, if you would allow the target both a grappling check to escape the grapple and a Fortitude save against the effect, you could scale up the power. Maybe not instant death, but perhaps something like 1d4 points of Constitution damage. If you're averse to that, you could also try something like one-half the target's current hit points in nonlethal damage, to a minimum of your initiator level. I'm going to come back on you for the rabid tidal rush, I can't think of anything for that at the moment. I'm not sure about the shifting seas maneuver, though. As it is, it's a boost, meaning that you can get out of arm's reach of your opponents after you hit them, but so can sudden leap. And sudden leap grants you a Jump check, which often exceeds 5 feet, so I'd even say you might consider scaling this maneuver up, if you want to keep the prerequisite. Now, if it were a counter that can be triggered by an opponent's attack, then you'd have something powerful on your hands. I would say that giving a cumulative +2 modifier on the tsunami stride maneuver would be a bit too much. With movement-affecting maneuvers, you can easily get very high bonuses. I'll also get back to you on the tide maneuvers. Right now, I'm a bit sleepy (1:23 AM here), so I'm sorry if I can't provide you with more than what I have offered now. Also, not to be impolite, but it might be a good idea to run your maneuvers through a spell checker. If you just cut and paste it in Word, it'll pick out most spelling errors. It's not that it isn't unreadable as it is, but it definitely shows that you're willing to put time not only in the design, but the display of the maneuvers.
BPsiBeaver 07-08-07, 07:48 AM	Perhaps for aqua lung you could have it done like flames blessing where you better at holding your breath and resisting suffucation by having more ranks is your disciplines main skill. Eventually you could make the character gain the ability to breath water just like flames blessing does with immunity to fire. It is also a first level stance so they are comparable.
Magocrat 07-08-07, 09:57 AM	Good idea, BPsiBeaver. About the key skill, though. Have you considered using Swim as this discipline's key skill? It definitely fits in, but I can also see why Balance would be used instead. If rabid tidal rush would incur a penalty on AC to the target, as you said, that would probably differentiate them enough. A counter bull rush would be a good idea for turn the tide, but if you leave it at that, the tide maneuvers will probably be good. And you were right about the impetuous tide maneuver. The flat-footed part is a bit too much. If you give me a minute, I'll make that into a separate maneuver. I think it'd be best if it'd be a 2nd-level maneuver, seeing how you already have four 1st-level maneuvers. Let's see... Deceptive Surf Broken Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 2 Initiation Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance As you hit your opponents as steadily as the sea hits the shore, you push your foes, forcing them to drop their guard. As long as you are in this stance, you may choose to forfeit dealing damage on an attack. You must decide to use this stance after your attack roll but before your damage roll. If you do so, your opponent must make a Balance check or become flat-footed until the beginning of his next round. The DC for the Balance check is 12 + the damage that you would've dealt (make a damage roll to determine the damage).
Aage 07-08-07, 10:03 AM	Good idea, BPsiBeaver. About the key skill, though. Have you considered using Swim as this discipline's key skill? It definitely fits in, but I can also see why Balance would be used instead. The thing is, balance fits almost any martial school :D Swim would be an interesting choice indeed... Also, I think this school should be open to swordsages.. They seem to fit the theme...
Neofish 07-08-07, 01:55 PM	I don't have any specific mechanical suggestions, but your entries are kind of hard to read. There's the occasional spelling error, but the big problem is that some of your sentences contain too much information. Duely noted, i'll go back right now and give the list a nice, long revision. Sorry for the inconvenience dude.
Neofish 07-08-07, 02:30 PM	For the Krakens Embrace, what about if it simulated drowning? After initiating, the victim must begin making constitution checks as if they were drowning. Though you'd need to move it up, since right after unconsciousness is death. Maybe instead of death, it'll begin inflicting Constitution damage for the duration of the stance? The thing is, most maneuvers effects end after an adept intiates the maneuver, so i'm kinda hesistant on allowing a maneuver that has this sort of extended duration. Although, I think it can be done, it just needs proper wording. Something like "as long as you continue to pin your opponent, he must a Fortitude save at the begining of his turn or..." And yes, making the maneuver actaully mimic drowning would make it a very high level maneuver. I'm thinking 7th or 8th at least, seeing how it could disable and kill someone within a mere 3 turn span. Ive no idea whether the grapple maneuvers should be a boost. If you did that, you could initiate most boosts after you do a maneuver which may provide a bonus to the grapple check (they do get nasty when you get to higher levels). Would that be overpowering? That's what I had initially envisioned, something in which there would be almost perfect snynergy. The strikes would be bullrushes, and the boosts would be attacks or grapples or trips. Any ideas for a legacy weapon? I do, although it's actually not a sword per se... Maybe the aqua lung maneuver could possibly let them hold their breath for 1 minute per point of constitution stat instead of the normal 1 round per point of constitution. Possibly with bonus minutes equal to their initiator level. True. Perhaps for aqua lung you could have it done like flames blessing where you better at holding your breath and resisting suffucation by having more ranks is your disciplines main skill. Eventually you could make the character gain the ability to breath water just like flames blessing does with immunity to fire. It is also a first level stance so they are comparable. That seems like the perfect fix, thanks BPisBeaver. Good idea, BPsiBeaver. About the key skill, though. Have you considered using Swim as this discipline's key skill? It definitely fits in, but I can also see why Balance would be used instead. I wouldn't mind if everyone thought it would acceptable to rplace opposed Strength and Dex checks with a Swim cehck instead, lol. Despite the name and some of the maneuvers, the school doesn't soley focus on aquatic combat. It may help, but it isn't bound by it. I really need to repost my fluff. Perhaps then people will better understand how the name ties to the maneuvers. If rabid tidal rush would incur a penalty on AC to the target, as you said, that would probably differentiate them enough. Yes, I agree, and will change it back as such. A counter bull rush would be a good idea for turn the tide, but if you leave it at that, the tide maneuvers will probably be good. I still think i'm going to change them to opposed strength checks rather than opposed attack rolls, that eleminates the confusion of having to be armed or not when intiating them as also allows for other maneuvers and stances to grant them a synergistic bonus (ala many of the bullrush maneuvers and Tsunami stride). Deceptive Surf Broken Wave (Stance) Level: Warblade 2 Initiation Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance As you hit your opponents as steadily as the sea hits the shore, you push your foes, forcing them to drop their guard. As long as you are in this stance, you may choose to forfeit dealing damage on an attack. You must decide to use this stance after your attack roll but before your damage roll. If you do so, your opponent must make a Balance check or become flat-footed until the beginning of his next round. The DC for the Balance check is 12 + the damage that you would've dealt (make a damage roll to determine the damage). Egh, I don't see the need to forfeit damage, seeing how you are giving up so much to choose this stance, not to mention that stnaces are hard to come by as is. Also, I don't really see this as a stance, the effect just comes more off as a boost to me. I think i'm going to do the following. Impetuous tide (level 2): Stance- Enemies recieve AC penalty according how far there were moved this turn. Deceptive Surf (level 2? Possibly level 1): Boost- Opponent must make a reflex save or become flat footed, may only be initiated after moving an opponent at least 10feet. Rabid Tidal Rush (level 2): Strike- Make a charing bullrush followed by a melee attack, gain bonuses on attack and damage of melee attack based on the distance foes was pushed back. There, I think that should do it. The thing is, balance fits almost any martial school Swim would be an interesting choice indeed... Also, I think this school should be open to swordsages.. They seem to fit the theme... I agree that balance almost fits any school, and I choose it because this school's emphasis is throwing you weight around while still maintaining your your own footing. But again, it people think it would be out of line to replace Str or Dex checks with a swim check instead, i'll gladly change it, even if I might disagree. As for swordsage access. Originally, the I fancied a swordsage as a the creator, the broken wave discipline was a meshing of the Settign sun and the Stone dragon disciplines. But now I just see Broken Wave as a hard, fast, ruthless, aswell as a somewhat reckless school to where a swordsage would find it to appealing. Or just didn't have the nesscessary means as to study it (much like Iron heart), which reminds me, I really need to repost the fluff...
Aage 07-08-07, 02:38 PM	But again, it people think it would be out of line to replace Str or Dex checks with a swim check instead, i'll gladly change it, even if I might disagree. You do have a point, a rather good one actually :D That would seem silly ^^
periscope 07-18-07, 06:29 PM	CLATU BARATA NIKTO! :performs thread necromancy: I love the fluff you have up there and cant wait to see more. I also love the image I have of someone in mithral full plate going "GET OUTTA MY WAY!" or the classic "IM THE JUGGERNAUGHT ***CH!"