Buddhist Paladin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Buddhist Paladin? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
aaron3579
06-06-06, 05:08 PM Can it be played honestly, or is the term an oxymoron?
Jethren
06-06-06, 07:19 PM It does seem to be a self-contridictory concept. On the other hand, people's motivations tend to be pretty self-contridictory to begin with, so it really isn't all that unreasonable. Balancing the differences in outlook could even make for an interesting character.

In terms of game mechanics, you could easilly make a Paladin/Monk, but would have to face the problem of losing the chance to improve in whatever class you took first. I think that if somone really wanted to do it, they could. It's a difficult concept, but not an impossible one.
belthazzar1113
06-06-06, 07:28 PM i would allow a feat Faithful astetic that allowed multiclassing between paladin and monk only. Picking up a level in any class but paladin or monk would forbid access to both for the rest of the characters life, but multiclassing between each wouldn't forbid access to the other.
for a good concept the rules can be bent slightly. and this is a fairly good concept, though it would be hard to balance with the paladins use of armor and the monks distain for both. though i could see some funnyness with charging smite and flying kick. HEAVENS DROP!
AZNsupermarket
06-06-06, 07:36 PM Ascetic Knight from Complete Adventurer page 105: Your Paladin and Monk levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage, as well as your Smite damage.
You may multiclass between Paladin and Monk freely (alignment and XP penalties still apply as normal).
Jethren
06-06-06, 07:40 PM Ascetic Knight from Complete Adventurer page 105: Your Paladin and Monk levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage, as well as your Smite damage.
You may multiclass between Paladin and Monk freely (alignment and XP penalties still apply as normal).

You know, I'm ashamed to admit that I'd forgotten that feat existed. It would seem that the concept is even more viable than I had imagined. This actually helps me with a character I'd been working on as an NPC.
belthazzar1113
06-06-06, 07:42 PM huzza. monk 2 for evasion, paladin 6 for spells and abilities, then PRC out into 10 levels of sacred fist or something similar for the concept. works for me. VoP here i come :)
AZNsupermarket
06-06-06, 08:13 PM huzza. monk 2 for evasion, paladin 6 for spells and abilities, then PRC out into 10 levels of sacred fist or something similar for the concept. works for me. VoP here i come :)
you might want to take Intuitive Attack (exalted feat) from BoED: When fighting with a Simple Weapon appropriate for your size, or a natural attack, you have the option of using your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier as a bonus on your attacks.
HobbitGuy1420
06-06-06, 11:26 PM Combine that with the feat "Serenity," out of whichever Dragon magazine it's in (basically, lets you use Wis for the Paladin stuff, rather than CHA - including Turning!), and you cut down your MAD rather... well, madly. :D
Naaman
06-06-06, 11:34 PM I would say that Buddhism is the path of netrality: wanting nothing, therefore lacking nothing. While the paladin is the path of righteousness: pursuing the advancement of "good" ideals, and the destruction of evil ones.

The "motivation" of a Buddhist is to achieve a lack of motivation, while the paladin is motivated by high ideals (usually a character seeking the path of the paladin has a tremendously strong desire to right wrongs, whereas a Buddhist only seeks inner peace through contentment with nothing).

I'd say it's an oxymoron.
Ziggaraut
06-06-06, 11:42 PM I would say pure monk is a good substitution for a buddhist paladin, although buddhists by nature are Lawful-True Nuetral, so an oxymoron it may be.
Fuzzy_Logic
06-06-06, 11:55 PM IIRC

Buddhists exist in many types, and some are veyr focused on god deeds. plus, like catholics, many buddhists recognize a difference between the priesthood (buddhist monks, well-represented by monk ro cloistered cleric)

plus, don't buddhists belive in dharma, or is that a hindu thing? (you know, the destiny/role you were born to fulfill)

a born Kshatriya (warrior caste) would naturally take a mroe militant outlook than a brahmin.

I'd say a single classed buddhist paladin is nto at all unlikely. you just need to make one minor change to the code of conduct:

Insert the phrase: "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
Manic Man
06-07-06, 01:09 AM Can it be played honestly, or is the term an oxymoron?

Probably it would be even more difficult than a standard paladin.
Here's a likely code you would need.
i) You're allowed to defend yourselves
ii) Undead should be purified so they proceed to reincarnation
iii) Teach but never force
iv) Humility and compassion should be prime directives
and likely the most difficult
v) Your attacks should be non-lethal vs any living creature
Grey_Mage
06-07-06, 01:12 AM Mayhap if you used one of the varian paladins... zen is rather true neutral eh? Though alot of buddhists are tauists... so maybe not as much. This idea will take much further thought.

*goes off to meditate*
Nani?
06-07-06, 08:03 AM Makes perfect sense. First of all, Mayana(sp wrong I know) Buddhism is a Neutral Good philosophy. It's about ending suffering, staying around to help others to end suffering as a Bodisattva. It's about (on practical level), non materialism and living simply so others can simply live. Good stuff.

It is about renouncing your own ego, acceptance, non addiction (which is why I say NG, you can be addicted to rules, bueracracy, and too proud of your place in the social order).

A Buddhist Palidan would use his place would renounce unnescasary wealth (he'd still keep good armor etc, he wouldn't buy a cool gold platted barding), protect the weak to to allieve suffering, deal with "demons" that trap people (like undead) in cycles of suffering, but do it within a system, whether it be through monastic or within the context of service to a lord.

I recomend the biography "The Last Samurai: The life and times of Saigo Takamori" for some inspiration (though I don't think he is Paladin, he has some Palidan like aspects and is Lawful). Also, the Anime "The Twelve Kingdoms".

Also note, he would be allowed to take lives, but in the defense of others, and in a way that mimimizes suffering.

All the best,

Nani?
Kapalen
06-07-06, 02:25 PM Probably it would be even more difficult than a standard paladin.
Here's a likely code you would need.
i) You're allowed to defend yourselves
ii) Undead should be purified so they proceed to reincarnation
iii) Teach but never force
iv) Humility and compassion should be prime directives
and likely the most difficult
v) Your attacks should be non-lethal vs any living creature

SHouldn't that really be the code for any paladin?
Jethren
06-07-06, 06:39 PM Well, I did some research last night. There's a class from OA, the Sohei (I think that's spelled right), which would fit this concept rather well. One might have to substitute somthing for thier Ki Frensy ability, but they have the necesary fluff, and most of the mechanics that you'd need.
aaron3579
06-09-06, 01:51 AM Thanks for all of the replies. :)

I should have mentioned that we're playing a core-only campaign, so if it isn't in the PHB, it's out... so my question was aimed more at how the philosophy of such a character should work out (if Buddhism can be reconciled w/ the ideals of a paladin) rather than game mechanics.

We played the first session last night, and Kale (my Buddhist paladin) was really fun to play. He's not worried about material possessions; he rolled up 100 gp to start off, and spent five on some food and a bed roll, then gave the other 95 away. He fought mostly undead, and even a Buddhist would have no qualms about dispatching them, so no worries there.

It is also nice because unlike a traditional paladin, Kale doesn't have to worry about forcing the party to conform to his high standards. He just adheres to them himself and hopes they'll rub off. He carries no gear other than a bed roll, his clothes, some food, and a short sword. He figures that if he needs anything else, it will either be at hand when he needs it, or if not, he was not meant to complete the task at hand in the first place.
Manic Man
06-09-06, 05:34 AM SHouldn't that really be the code for any paladin?

Well mostly in the ideal paladin, except i haven't seen anyone willing use only non-lethal force except when they have taken some feats, PrCs or what not.
JulesCARV
06-09-06, 03:44 PM I think it would be fine. A Buddhist paladin just needs to take the "universal compassion and mercy" stuff with a grain of salt, just as a Christian paladin would take "love thy enemies and turn the other cheek" with a grain of salt. Just, kind, merciful, heroic warrior? Yes. Idiot who lets people tear him to pieces? No.

Castes are definitely a Hindu thing, although Hindu reformers have, of course, tried to diminish that aspect of it in modern times. Also... I'm probably going to come across as a huge honkin' bigot here, but in Eberron, I think of the Path of Light (Il-Yanna) followed by the Kalashtar as being based on Buddhism, and the Dreaming Dark (Il-Lashtavar) followed by the Inspired as being based on the more repressive aspects of Hinduism.
Rialto
06-09-06, 04:03 PM I would say pure monk is a good substitution for a buddhist paladin, although buddhists by nature are Lawful-True Nuetral, so an oxymoron it may be.
"Cultivate goodness"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aaron3579 06-06-06, 05:08 PM	Can it be played honestly, or is the term an oxymoron?
Jethren 06-06-06, 07:19 PM	It does seem to be a self-contridictory concept. On the other hand, people's motivations tend to be pretty self-contridictory to begin with, so it really isn't all that unreasonable. Balancing the differences in outlook could even make for an interesting character. In terms of game mechanics, you could easilly make a Paladin/Monk, but would have to face the problem of losing the chance to improve in whatever class you took first. I think that if somone really wanted to do it, they could. It's a difficult concept, but not an impossible one.
belthazzar1113 06-06-06, 07:28 PM	i would allow a feat Faithful astetic that allowed multiclassing between paladin and monk only. Picking up a level in any class but paladin or monk would forbid access to both for the rest of the characters life, but multiclassing between each wouldn't forbid access to the other. for a good concept the rules can be bent slightly. and this is a fairly good concept, though it would be hard to balance with the paladins use of armor and the monks distain for both. though i could see some funnyness with charging smite and flying kick. HEAVENS DROP!
AZNsupermarket 06-06-06, 07:36 PM	Ascetic Knight from Complete Adventurer page 105: Your Paladin and Monk levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage, as well as your Smite damage. You may multiclass between Paladin and Monk freely (alignment and XP penalties still apply as normal).
Jethren 06-06-06, 07:40 PM	Ascetic Knight from Complete Adventurer page 105: Your Paladin and Monk levels stack to determine your Unarmed Damage, as well as your Smite damage. You may multiclass between Paladin and Monk freely (alignment and XP penalties still apply as normal). You know, I'm ashamed to admit that I'd forgotten that feat existed. It would seem that the concept is even more viable than I had imagined. This actually helps me with a character I'd been working on as an NPC.
belthazzar1113 06-06-06, 07:42 PM	huzza. monk 2 for evasion, paladin 6 for spells and abilities, then PRC out into 10 levels of sacred fist or something similar for the concept. works for me. VoP here i come :)
AZNsupermarket 06-06-06, 08:13 PM	huzza. monk 2 for evasion, paladin 6 for spells and abilities, then PRC out into 10 levels of sacred fist or something similar for the concept. works for me. VoP here i come :) you might want to take Intuitive Attack (exalted feat) from BoED: When fighting with a Simple Weapon appropriate for your size, or a natural attack, you have the option of using your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier as a bonus on your attacks.
HobbitGuy1420 06-06-06, 11:26 PM	Combine that with the feat "Serenity," out of whichever Dragon magazine it's in (basically, lets you use Wis for the Paladin stuff, rather than CHA - including Turning!), and you cut down your MAD rather... well, madly. :D
Naaman 06-06-06, 11:34 PM	I would say that Buddhism is the path of netrality: wanting nothing, therefore lacking nothing. While the paladin is the path of righteousness: pursuing the advancement of "good" ideals, and the destruction of evil ones. The "motivation" of a Buddhist is to achieve a lack of motivation, while the paladin is motivated by high ideals (usually a character seeking the path of the paladin has a tremendously strong desire to right wrongs, whereas a Buddhist only seeks inner peace through contentment with nothing). I'd say it's an oxymoron.
Ziggaraut 06-06-06, 11:42 PM	I would say pure monk is a good substitution for a buddhist paladin, although buddhists by nature are Lawful-True Nuetral, so an oxymoron it may be.
Fuzzy_Logic 06-06-06, 11:55 PM	IIRC Buddhists exist in many types, and some are veyr focused on god deeds. plus, like catholics, many buddhists recognize a difference between the priesthood (buddhist monks, well-represented by monk ro cloistered cleric) plus, don't buddhists belive in dharma, or is that a hindu thing? (you know, the destiny/role you were born to fulfill) a born Kshatriya (warrior caste) would naturally take a mroe militant outlook than a brahmin. I'd say a single classed buddhist paladin is nto at all unlikely. you just need to make one minor change to the code of conduct: Insert the phrase: "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
Manic Man 06-07-06, 01:09 AM	Can it be played honestly, or is the term an oxymoron? Probably it would be even more difficult than a standard paladin. Here's a likely code you would need. i) You're allowed to defend yourselves ii) Undead should be purified so they proceed to reincarnation iii) Teach but never force iv) Humility and compassion should be prime directives and likely the most difficult v) Your attacks should be non-lethal vs any living creature
Grey_Mage 06-07-06, 01:12 AM	Mayhap if you used one of the varian paladins... zen is rather true neutral eh? Though alot of buddhists are tauists... so maybe not as much. This idea will take much further thought. goes off to meditate
Nani? 06-07-06, 08:03 AM	Makes perfect sense. First of all, Mayana(sp wrong I know) Buddhism is a Neutral Good philosophy. It's about ending suffering, staying around to help others to end suffering as a Bodisattva. It's about (on practical level), non materialism and living simply so others can simply live. Good stuff. It is about renouncing your own ego, acceptance, non addiction (which is why I say NG, you can be addicted to rules, bueracracy, and too proud of your place in the social order). A Buddhist Palidan would use his place would renounce unnescasary wealth (he'd still keep good armor etc, he wouldn't buy a cool gold platted barding), protect the weak to to allieve suffering, deal with "demons" that trap people (like undead) in cycles of suffering, but do it within a system, whether it be through monastic or within the context of service to a lord. I recomend the biography "The Last Samurai: The life and times of Saigo Takamori" for some inspiration (though I don't think he is Paladin, he has some Palidan like aspects and is Lawful). Also, the Anime "The Twelve Kingdoms". Also note, he would be allowed to take lives, but in the defense of others, and in a way that mimimizes suffering. All the best, Nani?
Kapalen 06-07-06, 02:25 PM	Probably it would be even more difficult than a standard paladin. Here's a likely code you would need. i) You're allowed to defend yourselves ii) Undead should be purified so they proceed to reincarnation iii) Teach but never force iv) Humility and compassion should be prime directives and likely the most difficult v) Your attacks should be non-lethal vs any living creature SHouldn't that really be the code for any paladin?
Jethren 06-07-06, 06:39 PM	Well, I did some research last night. There's a class from OA, the Sohei (I think that's spelled right), which would fit this concept rather well. One might have to substitute somthing for thier Ki Frensy ability, but they have the necesary fluff, and most of the mechanics that you'd need.
aaron3579 06-09-06, 01:51 AM	Thanks for all of the replies. :) I should have mentioned that we're playing a core-only campaign, so if it isn't in the PHB, it's out... so my question was aimed more at how the philosophy of such a character should work out (if Buddhism can be reconciled w/ the ideals of a paladin) rather than game mechanics. We played the first session last night, and Kale (my Buddhist paladin) was really fun to play. He's not worried about material possessions; he rolled up 100 gp to start off, and spent five on some food and a bed roll, then gave the other 95 away. He fought mostly undead, and even a Buddhist would have no qualms about dispatching them, so no worries there. It is also nice because unlike a traditional paladin, Kale doesn't have to worry about forcing the party to conform to his high standards. He just adheres to them himself and hopes they'll rub off. He carries no gear other than a bed roll, his clothes, some food, and a short sword. He figures that if he needs anything else, it will either be at hand when he needs it, or if not, he was not meant to complete the task at hand in the first place.
Manic Man 06-09-06, 05:34 AM	SHouldn't that really be the code for any paladin? Well mostly in the ideal paladin, except i haven't seen anyone willing use only non-lethal force except when they have taken some feats, PrCs or what not.
JulesCARV 06-09-06, 03:44 PM	I think it would be fine. A Buddhist paladin just needs to take the "universal compassion and mercy" stuff with a grain of salt, just as a Christian paladin would take "love thy enemies and turn the other cheek" with a grain of salt. Just, kind, merciful, heroic warrior? Yes. Idiot who lets people tear him to pieces? No. Castes are definitely a Hindu thing, although Hindu reformers have, of course, tried to diminish that aspect of it in modern times. Also... I'm probably going to come across as a huge honkin' bigot here, but in Eberron, I think of the Path of Light (Il-Yanna) followed by the Kalashtar as being based on Buddhism, and the Dreaming Dark (Il-Lashtavar) followed by the Inspired as being based on the more repressive aspects of Hinduism.
Rialto 06-09-06, 04:03 PM	I would say pure monk is a good substitution for a buddhist paladin, although buddhists by nature are Lawful-True Nuetral, so an oxymoron it may be. "Cultivate goodness"