Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zelvious 01-28-04, 07:39 PM	can anyone give me what buffy the vampire slayer is, or help me make 1, lol she so cool i wanna make a slayer'' that wants to kill vampires!
zelvious 01-28-04, 07:57 PM	can i have a reply, lol or does no one no?
Haldrik 01-28-04, 08:13 PM	Buffy is a strict Dex Fighter (swashbuckler) who focuses on unarmed combat, tumbling, and evasion feats. She also has a unique Detect Undead feat that is always "on". Discuss with the DM what range and considerations are appropriate, but it counts as one feat. You may also try to convert non mytstical unarmed combat abilities of the Monk into separate feats that your Fighter can also learn. Finally, Buffy does have a high Constitution, but if you wish maybe switch your Fighter's Good Save from a Fortitude save to a Reflex save, to better reflect a Dex Fighter.
BlaineTog 01-28-04, 08:15 PM	I don't know of anything in DnD that is the slayer exactly, but you could either make a PrC for one or use a modifier Ranger. In d20 Modern, there's a Avanced class called "Shadow Slayer" which is essentially what you are looking for. It would require a little bit of modification (mainly the pre-reqs and class skill, although a few other minor chances might have to be made) for DnD, but it would be workable.
Iron Chef Vastrox 01-28-04, 08:17 PM	A big problem with making a Buffy character in D&D would be in the nature of the Vampire as depicted in 3.5. There are quite a few qualities possessed by D&D vampires that aren't present (at least, not prevalent) in the show: turn into mist upon 'death' no called shots = no stake instakill [more] effective spell-like abilities DR 10/Silver and Magic If you truly wish to play a Vampire Slayer, you'll have to come to grips with the fact that you can't 'stake' them effectively, and almost assuredly have to rely on magic weapons to fight Vampires efficiently. To make a 'Slayer', you'd have to toss on some sort of template, akin to Saint. This just depends on how uber you wish 'Slayer' status to be. If you think allocated high stats appropriately is sufficient in your game, then simply call yourself a Slayer and make no mechanical changes. If you wish to boost stats, an increase to Dex and Str would be appropriate, possibly with a Detect Undead at Will or Protection from Negative Energy/Level Drain ability. I could see the Slayer template adding anything from a +0 to +4, depending on its potency. Buffy herself would be a Fighter with increased Unarmed Attack damage capability. A possible mechanical depiction would be Ranger/Monk, although for a more min/maxed build, you could also try Ranger/Paladin prestige classing into Sacred Fist/Foe Hunter (DotF, MotW). Neither of these builds will help you with the problem of the DR/and Silver, however. You may consider adding something into the Slayer template that allows you to overcome Silver DR as an innate ability.
q'afuu 01-28-04, 08:21 PM	You might want to try and have a bit more patience than waiting 15 minutes would indicate. Anyway, IMO she's a Ranger/Monk multiclass (ranger for the FE, monk for the combat style). That accounst for the 'learned' abilities. Aside from that, she has special qualities due to her Slayer template (increased physical stats, awareness, fast healing and possibly some damage reduction).
Castor Troy 01-28-04, 08:44 PM	Originally posted by zelvious can anyone give me what buffy the vampire slayer is, or help me make 1, lol she so cool i wanna make a slayer'' that wants to kill vampires! Go to your local gamestore. Buy that RPG, and there you go Casue I'm Castor Troy!
Eldren 01-29-04, 01:23 AM	Buffy is most likely a Fighter with the "Improved Unarmed Strike" feat to account for her hand-to-hand expertise. You probably wouldn't need to really deal with a called-shot system for staking vamps, because we have to remember that the D&D combat system approximates the fact that people are feinting, landing not-so-telling blows, etc., and that the "killing shot" comes when you reduce them to 0 hit points (I usually don't take my monsters to -10), and that tends to happen pretty quickly. If your average fight against a BBEG lasts 10 rounds, that's only a single minute of actual time, and Buffy usually takes longer to dispatch most vamps. They usually get in a couple of good shots on her before her friends show up or before she just stakes them. Unless it's Spike or Angel. Then she's the one getting "staked"... *ouch* Bad pun, I know... :devil:
Skyrocket 01-29-04, 01:30 AM	Buffy doesn't wear armour. So I think having her take the Martial Weapons feat makes more sense. But yeah, monk/ranger.
Ithilorien 01-29-04, 01:32 AM	She'd definitely need an inheritted "the Slayer" template. Ideas for the template are: * Gains the "silver" quality to all her attacks for overcoming damage reduction. * Gains the "good" alignment quality to all her attacks for overcoming damage reduction. * Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution bonuses. * Fast Healing. Ranger/monk sounds about right in general, but Buffy doesn't strike me as being lawful . . . a lot of episodes center on her shirking (or trying to shirk) duty and refusing to conform. Perhaps she just gains increased unarmed damage and a dodge bonus from the Slayer template?
Qube 01-29-04, 04:48 AM	Originally posted by some monk/ranger. I think so to: FE undead and outsider(evil)
Cross Hatch 01-29-04, 07:15 AM	Buffy isn't lawful by any stretch of the imagination, so Monk is out. Buffy has an unnatural healing rate, so Ranger is out. Buffy doesn't wear armor, but relies on her dexterity as her armor. Fighter doesn't quite cut it. I believe Buffy is a Psionic Warrior.
polt 01-29-04, 08:22 AM	Buffy is not a Class in the Players Handbook.
Ithilorien 01-29-04, 10:03 AM	Originally posted by polt Buffy is not a Class in the Players Handbook. But we are discussing what combination of classes from the Player's Hanbook she would be. Generally these type of threads are tolerated.
Skyrocket 01-29-04, 10:47 AM	Originally posted by Cross Hatch Buffy isn't lawful by any stretch of the imagination, so Monk is out. Buffy has an unnatural healing rate, so Ranger is out. Buffy doesn't wear armor, but relies on her dexterity as her armor. Fighter doesn't quite cut it. I believe Buffy is a Psionic Warrior. Trying to define Buffy by D&D rules like that isn't going to work. Buffy lives in the D20 Modern world where lawful doens't mean jack if you want to know martial arts. So if you want to make a classic D&D Buffy the whole monks have to be lawful thing is just going to have to be set aside. IMO, Slayer (lets talk Slayers in general) would be a template that could be added to any human female within a certain age. It would grant bonuses to Str, Con, Dex and maybe Cha. However, since Slayer is a potent, pontentally game-break class/template something big and bad would have to be added as a drawback.
Hogre 01-29-04, 11:31 AM	"The Slayer" should be a template, not a class. Most of Buffy's abilities come less from training and more from what she is. That being said, by the end of the series she has gained quite a few levels. Probably most equivalent to a DnD Rogue.
Eldren 01-29-04, 11:43 AM	I would definitely agree that "Slayer" ought to probably be a template, since it isn't quite a prestige class (she doesn't really gain more power the more time she's a Slayer; in fact, she hasn't really discovered any "new" powers in the entire 7-season run of the show; she's had a couple of visions, and discovered that "death is her gift", but that's about it). However, keep in mind that you don't have to be a Monk to deal increased damage unarmed, you only have to have the "Improved Unarmed Strike" feat, which even a Fighter could take (although one wonders why; Monks deal significantly improved unarmed damage). Thing about it is, Buffy has never really beaten anything to death. Sure, she's wailed on something relentlessly, but the killing blow has always been with a weapon. Consider: She nailed The Master by staking him, she killed Angel by running him through with a sword (well, she didn't really "kill" him; she just sent him to a demon dimension...), she offed the Mayor with explosives, she had supernatural enhancement (maybe a ki strike? Not likely; she channeled the essences of all the past Slayers) and ripped Adam's nuclear core out, she never killed Glory (Giles suffocated Glory in the form of Ben while Buffy closed the portal), she didn't do a blasted thing to Willow (that was Xander and that whole touchy-feely "I'm still your friend and I love you" garbage), and she discorporated the First Evil with that cool axe-thingy and then collapsed an entire town on it (and even that was more Spike instead of Buffy). That takes care of each of her major enemies for the seven seasons, and everything else was child's play, comparitively speaking. So I'd say class-wise, she's a Fighter with a couple levels of Rogue, and the Slayer template. Increased Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and Fast Healing. Probably some bonus feats, as she learns "Exotic Weapons" pretty quickly (quicker than she did in the beginning of the series). Alignment-wise, she's almost definitely Chaotic Good (which throws being a Monk right out the window).
Fiendish1 01-29-04, 12:35 PM	Buffy is a monk. Lawful good implies doing what is right, and good, not what the law tells one to do. Monk allows her the added AC, Unarmed attacks, faster healing, and magic unarmed attacks. She also would have the Knowledge:undead, Knowledge: Demons, Cheezy Quips, and Get it on with Vampires Class skills.:angel:
Ithilorien 01-29-04, 12:38 PM	Lawful also implies an ordered mind and the following of a personal code. Buffy's personal code is more along the lines of "screw being the Slayer, I want to go shopping." Lawful is right out the window. Leaning towards her being a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue, right now.
Hogre 01-29-04, 12:38 PM	Buffy isn't really that knowledgeable about undead or demons. If she hasn't fought it before, she doesn't know about it. Magic Unarmed attacks? Buffy doesn't have magic unarmed attacks? Buffy is best presented in d20 modern as either a shadow slayer or better as a fast/strong/martial-artist with a template for slayer.
Shadowfoot 01-29-04, 12:55 PM	Slayer should be a template, definitely. Potentials and slayers have no choice in the matter; those powers are bestowed upon them by the powers that be, whether they want them (Faith) or not (Buffy). And those powers are fixed; the only aspects that increase are fighting prowess, which is represented in levels of fighter. The template would increase her Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution to at least superhuman levels (not just + X bonuses - Buffy was superhumanly strong, not just really strong). It would include detect undead (although I only remember one or two times, including practicing it at the Bronze once, where Buffy actually sensed undead). Fast healing, as has been pointed out. And a form of Bardic Lore on undead and slayers, to represent the carried memories. And occasional visions from slayers past. As a class, she would be some variant fighter. Drop all the armor proficiencies for high Reflex saves, alternate skills (Balance, Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge [Arcana/History/Religion], Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Magic Device), and a bonus Exotic Weapon Proficiency or two. She would have Improved Unarmed Combat (as has been pointed out, she slayed almost exclusively with weapons, and her high Strength would enhance her unarmed damage enough) and the Leadership feat (leading the Scoobs and then the potentials), with any number of standard combat feats. She would be Neutral Good or Chaotic Good, but certainly not Lawful Good. She continually ignored the rules and occasionally shunned her responsibilities for personal reasons (remember when she moved away, changed her name, and a worked as a waitress?). She constantly resisted her destiny and what she was told. Her stats, I think, would be something like: Strength 20, Dexterity 20, Constitution 20, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 14, Charisma 12. She was of average intelligence, made very unwise decisions (waitress, dating vampires, trying to kill her friends during the asylum episode, etc.) but made frequent wise ones (tactical decisions, strategies, planning, etc.), and she was a bit grumpy. She never really made friends in Sunnydale beyond the core five or six people. She never fit in socially.
Tzor 01-29-04, 01:19 PM	I take it you want the TV Buffy, instead of the original movie buffy. The original movie buffy would be probably a ranger. I believe she does dual wield stakes at one point in the movie. But I have no idea how one would properly a detect undead that resulted in severe menstrual cramps (this was downplayed over time in the TV series ... in the original movie it gave buffy significant problems in attacking vampires ... ). Perhaps a slayer could be placed in a "sickness" condition whenever within x' of a vampire.
Dheran 01-29-04, 09:44 PM	Originally posted by Eldren Thing about it is, Buffy has never really beaten anything to death.... That takes care of each of her major enemies for the seven seasons, and everything else was child's play, comparitively speaking. Well, there was the first Turok-Han (ur-vamp); Buffy ripped its head off with a chain. Since it was a fat, sturdy chain, it didn't have any cutting power like a garrote; the beheading was just accomplished by main strength. And this wasn't child's play compared to the major enemies: both the Master and Angel were weaker vampires. But yeah, your argument is pretty sound. The Buffyverse mythos generally requires a weapon for a kill; martial arts is just to subdue the enemy for the coup de grace. At the very least this is a new feat to allow a Stunning Fist/coup de grace combo. My take: Buffy has to be a Ranger/Monk combo. The Ranger has to have favored enemy: Undead and be able to critical them. (Supernatural Blow from MotW is probably a prerequisite to the new feat required.) The Monk lawful restriction works if you consider that Buffy never kills humans or even harmless evil creatures; it's not the usual law, but Buffy follows it strictly. The monk really is pretty close. It's obvious that Buffy's got Wholeness of Body. The monk's first Ki Strike special ability (magic) almost works against D&D vampires' damage reduction; we'd just need to add (silver) to the mix. Buffy never wears armor, or carries much. She's obviously human, and also obviously has Flurry of Blows and bonus feats like Stunning Fist.
Castor Troy 01-29-04, 11:44 PM	Originally posted by Dheran Buffy never wears armor,]. [/B] Who on that show does? IMO trying to translate her into D&D is difficult at best due to the fact that she she completely more powerful than anyone else (read mortals), save what passes for spellcasters, can ever hope to possibly be. Regardless of what classes you choose to make her out of, the template of slayer should carry such a heavy ECL penalty that is makes the character unplayable when measured against ECL 0 characters of equal level. Can you name a non-spellcasting mortal character who was anywhere near her power? I ask Cause I'm Castor Troy!
fractal 01-30-04, 03:17 AM	Originally posted by Castor Troy Who on that show does? IMO trying to translate her into D&D is difficult at best due to the fact that she she completely more powerful than anyone else (read mortals), save what passes for spellcasters, can ever hope to possibly be. Regardless of what classes you choose to make her out of, the template of slayer should carry such a heavy ECL penalty that is makes the character unplayable when measured against ECL 0 characters of equal level. Can you name a non-spellcasting mortal character who was anywhere near her power?= Well, when you consider that A. Buffy had the Slayer template (presumably a level adjustment of probably 3-5), and also B. Far more opportunities for experience and level gain that most people, sure, not many people were going to stand in her way. However, there were normal humans who could have been comparable to her, at least as she was at the beginning of the series (at which point she already had a considerable amount of experience). For example, both Riley and Principal Wood clearly knew what they were doing. The name of the vampire hunter from Angel isn't coming to mind, but he was obviously very skilled as well. I also have no problem with considering her to be lawful. Sure, a big deal was made out of her teenage problems with authority, but in general, she did try to follow the rules. That's why she had so many problems when the "rules" of being a slayer, came into conflict with the "rules" of being a teenage girl at home and at school. It makes for a good story. Statwise, we know Buffy was a good cheerleader before becoming a Slayer, and also that she's bright (she does well in school when she has time to study, and she does quite well on the SAT), but fairly shallow (not unusual for a teenager). So, with a fair amount of guesswork here, of course, I'd probably describe pre-slayer Buffy as S10 D15 C12 I14 W10 C12. I'd suspect the Slayer template probably grants something like +8 or +10 to each physical stat, and +4 to Wisdom, because of the insight and heightened senses granted. Add Fast Healing 1, and that's a level adjustment of what, +5? Everything else is pretty much just flavor. So, Slayer Buffy is S20 D25 C22 I14 W14 C12. Then you get Slayer training, which mostly amounts to levels of Monk. Buffy largely took charge of her own training after a while, however. Ranger actually does seem like a good way to represent this. Of course, undisciplined (Chaotic) Slayers (Faith) tend to reject the Slayer training almost immediately (fewer Monk levels for them!).
polt 01-30-04, 04:54 AM	Buffys favored enemy is not undead, but demon. In the series, they often refers to Vampires as demons.
ShadowShinobi 01-30-04, 05:52 PM	monk/undead stalker
Lord Tarran 01-30-04, 07:17 PM	Lets start with the fact that Slayer is a template. Second, she has no levels in monk, nor ranger, for the abilities you describe are part of all slayers. Faith, and Dana who we saw on the last Angel, both have the unique abilities you describe, and no training, at all. Part of Slayerhood is the innate ability to track and find any evil supernatural creature. Also, you have to remember that supernatural evil in the buffy multiverse is always a demon, but not how we think of it in D&D terms. Second, slayers have the unique ability to fight with their hands, and the unique ability to dodge blows. They are meant to fight demons with their own powers. The demon they funneled into the original slayer, as well as the one that is found in all slayers, is probably stronger than a Balor. Take a demon with more powerful physical stats than a Balor, and add them to any human female, and you have the beginning of a slayer. Next, add Fast healing 50/ or regeneration 10/-, but that only work while the creature is resting. Next, make the hands of the Slayer do a d6 lethal instead of d3 nonlethal. Next add uncanny dodge, and a moderately high dodge bonus to armor class. Add innate ability to track and find evil supernatural beings. Increase speed to 60ft (remember when she tracked down and chased Glory's snake. That thing was moving fast.) Add innate abilty to use any weapon handed to her. Smack on low light vision. Add "when using a stake against a vampire, improve crit range to 15-20". Add no limit to jump range, and most of the rogue abilities. I say add all of these, not learn, because Buffy, and all other slayers have these present within them at all times. Its just discovering this and learning how to use them effectively.
Castor Troy 01-30-04, 07:39 PM	Originally posted by Lord Tarran Lets start with the fact that Slayer is a template. Second, she has no levels in monk, nor ranger, for the abilities you describe are part of all slayers. Faith, and Dana who we saw on the last Angel, both have the unique abilities you describe, and no training, at all. Part of Slayerhood is the innate ability to track and find any evil supernatural creature. Also, you have to remember that supernatural evil in the buffy multiverse is always a demon, but not how we think of it in D&D terms. Second, slayers have the unique ability to fight with their hands, and the unique ability to dodge blows. They are meant to fight demons with their own powers. The demon they funneled into the original slayer, as well as the one that is found in all slayers, is probably stronger than a Balor. Take a demon with more powerful physical stats than a Balor, and add them to any human female, and you have the beginning of a slayer. Next, add Fast healing 50/ or regeneration 10/-, but that only work while the creature is resting. Next, make the hands of the Slayer do a d6 lethal instead of d3 nonlethal. Next add uncanny dodge, and a moderately high dodge bonus to armor class. Add innate ability to track and find evil supernatural beings. Increase speed to 60ft (remember when she tracked down and chased Glory's snake. That thing was moving fast.) Add innate abilty to use any weapon handed to her. Smack on low light vision. Add "when using a stake against a vampire, improve crit range to 15-20". Add no limit to jump range, and most of the rogue abilities. I say add all of these, not learn, because Buffy, and all other slayers have these present within them at all times. Its just discovering this and learning how to use them effectively. I reiterrate. A template that adds so much of a LA that the character is basically unplayble due to the lack of sufficient HP, Saves, Skills, BAB, etc. when compared to a LA 0 or ECL 0 race PC of equal ECL as the slayer. I know this Cause I'm Cator Troy!
fractal 01-30-04, 10:56 PM	Originally posted by Lord Tarran Lets start with the fact that Slayer is a template. Second, she has no levels in monk, nor ranger, for the abilities you describe are part of all slayers. Faith, and Dana who we saw on the last Angel, both have the unique abilities you describe, and no training, at all. Part of Slayerhood is the innate ability to track and find any evil supernatural creature. I think you're definitely wrong, on several points. Let's address them. First, Buffy has clearly grown a lot in skill and experience from her initial Slayer abilities. In D&D we call that leveling. You could argue that some other class makes more sense, but I don't think either Monk or Ranger is a bad fit. Faith does have training. She had a Watcher pre-Sunnydale, and received additional training from Buffy and Giles. If you want to claim that she has levels in Rogue and Fighter, rather than many in Monk or Ranger, I won't argue with you. Dana (was that her name?) did not have training, true. However, she does benefit from the heightened stats of a Slayer. Good stats can compensate for fewer skill ranks. Also, because of her insanity, she had better recollection of the memories of earlier Slayers, who had had training. This is where she got her information about wooden stakes and the like. Also, you have to remember that supernatural evil in the buffy multiverse is always a demon, but not how we think of it in D&D terms. Not really. Even if you don't consider vampires to be undead, there are plenty of other undead creatures in the series that aren't demons, and Buffy fights them too. However, personally I would probably classify Buffyverse vampires as undead raised through demonic power. Second, slayers have the unique ability to fight with their hands, and the unique ability to dodge blows. They are meant to fight demons with their own powers Umm, all humans have the ability to fight with their hands, and to dodge blows, in the Buffyverse, in D&D, and in the real world. You just tend to win more often if you have huge bonuses to your physical stats like Slayers do. Training (levels) also helps, which is (part of) why the Watchers tried to find and train new Slayers immediately, before they had to face vampires. The demon they funneled into the original slayer, as well as the one that is found in all slayers, is probably stronger than a Balor. Take a demon with more powerful physical stats than a Balor, and add them to any human female, and you have the beginning of a slayer. Next, add Fast healing 50/ or regeneration 10/-, but that only work while the creature is resting. This is ridiculous. I don't think there's anything in the shows to represent Fast Healing fifty! Sure, if you gave her 10 minutes to recover from a pounding, she might be okay, but Buffy doesn't lie down for 6-12 seconds when critically injured, then hop back up again, fully healed, ready to go! Also, I don't see why the demon they channeled needs to be more powerful than a Balor. The point was the cleverness of their magic, not the brute force power it applied. Also, you're implying a Strength score of 45+? A light load capacity of 4000 lbs? Buffy is strong, but that's insane. Next, make the hands of the Slayer do a d6 lethal instead of d3 nonlethal. Next add uncanny dodge, and a moderately high dodge bonus to armor class. Add innate ability to track and find evil supernatural beings. Increase speed to 60ft (remember when she tracked down and chased Glory's snake. That thing was moving fast.) Add innate abilty to use any weapon handed to her. Smack on low light vision. Add "when using a stake against a vampire, improve crit range to 15-20". Add no limit to jump range, and most of the rogue abilities. I really don't agree with most of this, they're bonuses gained through training, or else abilities already reflected in the high physical stats of the Slayer template. Exceptions: Faster movement. I think you're right, Slayers can move faster, although probably +10-+20 is enough as a base. Low-light vision (I can't remember offhand instances of Buffy seeing well in the dark, but I'll believe that they're there). I say add all of these, not learn, because Buffy, and all other slayers have these present within them at all times. Its just discovering this and learning how to use them effectively. Buffy and all other humans have those abilities present within them at all times. It's just that discovering this and learning how to use the abilities effectively requires training. Level in the appropriate class, as any human can do, and you'll gain the abilities. Your chances of surviving that long may be improved if you have the physical qualities of a Slayer, however. I'm thinking of Buffy as probably something like Human Slayer Rog1/Mnk6/Rgr10. Archery Style, Favored Enemies: Undead+4, Outsider(Evil)+4, Constructs+2. Yes, that's a multi-classing penalty, but then, she's often torn about what she should be working on. It does give her better access to the Bluff skill she uses on occasion.
Lord Tarran 01-30-04, 11:12 PM	Dana (was that her name?) did not have training, true. However, she does benefit from the heightened stats of a Slayer. Good stats can compensate for fewer skill ranks. Also, because of her insanity, she had better recollection of the memories of earlier Slayers, who had had training. This is where she got her information about wooden stakes and the like. Yes, but she whooped Spike, who was fighting in earnest. I'll remind you that Spike killed two slayers, both well trained, and bested Buffy and Faith at times. He also once beat Angelus. She did this with just the base stats of the slayer, and her insanity. The visions would probably make it harder to think. Also, on the resting thing, I think over time the FH should improve. Buffy's is probably fifty. Faiths is a little lower. The new slayers are probably five, maybe 10. But they must rest for it to work. Full rest. Little stress. Thats what I meant.
Dlgood 01-31-04, 12:00 AM	I'd look at some basic Template attributes: 1. Low-light vision 2. Fast movement 3. Heightened Ability Scores - Str, Dex, Con, Will 4. I wouldn't give fast healing. Rather, a slayer gains hit points back each hour, instead of each day. 5. Increased Weapon familiarity: Non-Proficiency penalties reduced from -4 to -2. 6. Balance and Tumble always class skills 7. 1 Level in monk - 8. Favored Class: Monk, Any - Monk & the first class taken besides monk are treated as Favored Classes for the purposes of multi-classing. Depending on the particular slayer, they could have levels in Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Rogue, or Monk. By this point, I'd consider Buffy Summers to be an Epic Character anyway.
fractal 01-31-04, 12:37 AM	Originally posted by Dlgood I'd look at some basic Template attributes: 1. Low-light vision 2. Fast movement 3. Heightened Ability Scores - Str, Dex, Con, Will 4. I wouldn't give fast healing. Rather, a slayer gains hit points back each hour, instead of each day. 5. Increased Weapon familiarity: Non-Proficiency penalties reduced from -4 to -2. 6. Balance and Tumble always class skills 7. 1 Level in monk - 8. Favored Class: Monk, Any - Monk & the first class taken besides monk are treated as Favored Classes for the purposes of multi-classing. Depending on the particular slayer, they could have levels in Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Rogue, or Monk. By this point, I'd consider Buffy Summers to be an Epic Character anyway. Sounds good to me. I'm still not sure the Monk level needs to be included in the Vampire Slayer template, however.
anglar 01-31-04, 02:18 AM	Don't even get me started on this. From what little I've seen and all I've heard, what passes for vampires there are nothing more than humanoid leeches. They don't possess even a modicum of the power of a true vampire. Let her enter the house of Strahd von Zarovich, and we'll see just how good she really is.
Lord Tarran 01-31-04, 02:40 AM	For starters, the uninformed should never speak, unless it is to ask a question. Secondly, she slew the master (a patriarch vampire), beat down a highly powerful vamp with none of her powers, fought of the most powerful normal vampire in the world a few times (Angelus), and a vampire who is only slightly weaker (Spike). She staked Dracula, killed with her bare hands a flesh golem/halffiend thing (What is adam classified as) beat down a god (Buffy did whoop Glory before Giles killed Ben), and several of said god's minions. She defeated the source of all evil, sending it into remission for a few years, and lastly, killed a vampire that makes Strahd look like a puppy, with her bare hands. Then she killed about fifty more alone in a battle to save the world. My friend, new vampires, fledglings, make up most of the vamps in the Buffy Mythos, and she stakes them easy in about thirty seconds tops. Her tougher opponents, some of which I missed though, are much scarier. Side note:Both Spike and Angel(us) would whoop Zarovich as well.
anglar 01-31-04, 03:25 AM	Originally posted by Lord Tarran For starters, the uninformed should never speak, unless it is to ask a question. Secondly, she slew the master (a patriarch vampire), beat down a highly powerful vamp with none of her powers, fought of the most powerful normal vampire in the world a few times (Angelus), and a vampire who is only slightly weaker (Spike). She staked Dracula, killed with her bare hands a flesh golem/halffiend thing (What is adam classified as) beat down a god (Buffy did whoop Glory before Giles killed Ben), and several of said god's minions. She defeated the source of all evil, sending it into remission for a few years, and lastly, killed a vampire that makes Strahd look like a puppy, with her bare hands. Then she killed about fifty more alone in a battle to save the world. My friend, new vampires, fledglings, make up most of the vamps in the Buffy Mythos, and she stakes them easy in about thirty seconds tops. Her tougher opponents, some of which I missed though, are much scarier. Side note:Both Spike and Angel(us) would whoop Zarovich as well. Firstly, simply because I choose to avoid tainting the name of vampire by calling what she fights by that name does not mean that I am not familar with her "exploits". As for Strahd, he is quite literally a god, forsaken forever to his own land. No vampire she has ever crossed paths with even has the power to dissappate into the very air before she's done with them. The very reason she starts to fight "demons, spellcasters, and gods" is because it became quite obvious that what they call vampires are a pathetic copy. Did the average Buffypire have an INT and WIS of 4? In a setting like that give me one good reason why a Buffypire wouldn't simply hire a mortal hitman with a highpowered rifle to put a bullet through her head? Bye-bye Buffy! Or better yet, fill her house with sleep gas, capture her, and hold her prisoner until she dies of old age? The Buffypires are simply too stupid, along with every other opponent she ever had, to be worthy to be called real adversaries. Thirdly, wasn't is quaint how both Spike and Angel fell in love with Buffy? Lastly, we are not friends.
tarkin 01-31-04, 03:39 AM	1) Buffy Vamnpires are FAR closer to the original legend than the puffed up munchkin vampires that you are used to, particularly in d20. According to the oringinal legends, vampires were parasitic creatures that were basically less powerfull than humans that had to use massive amounts of trickery and deception to survive. 2) The vampire she killed with her own hands was supposed to be a Godlike creature. And Buffy did in fact defeat a god (Glorificus) 3) In the Dracula Episode, Dracula DID in fact have the power to dissipate into the very air befor Buffy was "done with them". In fact that last 5 jokes were entirely based on this. 4) Killing Buffy with a high powered rifle is a stupid thing to do. All you get is a new slayer. Or, as proven by subsequent episodes, Buffy survives the bullet. Or as proven by other episodes, Buffy is summoned back by a friendly witch. Killing buffy with your own hands however is fine, because then you have proven that you can take her and so what if they summon a new slayer or raise her from the dead. 5) Yes most "buffpyres" were morons. Most non-master vampires should be morons. All it takes to become a vampire is to be killed by a vampire. Dracula etc. are the ANCIENT ones, that survived because they were smart an became both smart and EXPERIENCED. But newborn vampires should be morons. 6) No it is not "quaint" how both Spike and Angel fell for Buffy. It is traditional. Depsite the bunch of gore -worshipping idiots that think of vampires as massively powerfull killing machines, the original vampire myth was of a sensual, seductive creature that was searching for love, and was using it's sexuality as a tool to get food until it found it's one true love. That is the Myth as Bram Stroker wrote it, and as the original legends describved the creatures. You don't like that, then you don't like the true mythilogical vampires. 7) Friends are rare and valuable. If someone wants to be your friend, or even politely refer to you as one, you should not be rude about it.
Lord Tarran 01-31-04, 03:44 AM	For starters, the girl was shot in the heart and didn't die. Blasted, at close range. Not dead. (For those paying attention, slayers should have DR 10/Magic). Healed right up, and was chasing down most powerful witch ever. Then proceeded to have the stuffing beat out of her by said witch, besides the point though. Next, Angel and Spike with chip in head fell in love with Buffy. Angelus did not. Spike without chip was nearly as deadly. Next, look at d20 modern vampires. They are the beasts that they fight in Buffy. Much easier to kill than those in D&D. Next, they aren't too bright, because they are modern day people made undead, not adventurers who had the life sucked out of them, and were born anew. D&D vampires should not even be compared to Buffy vamps. This is because all that can be compared are either dead or won't touch buffy. Nextly, Dracula, and the Master, and the Turok-Kan (sp?) were all standard vampires. All vampires in the Buffy Mythos do have the standard vamp abilities, but can't use them until they age and gain power, how it should be anyway in D&D. As I recall she single handely did all those dudes in. Also, on Strahd, he is not a god. He is a Darklord, and there is a difference. he has NO divine ranks. He is stated as a extremely powerful vampire, but he is killable. Also, Buffy beat a god up, so your theory on being unable to take him is null. Plus, seeing that he's a vampire, a critical with a wooden stake instantly kills him, so does a vorpal weapon. And I think the slayer template adds bonuses to your crit ranges.
Dheran 01-31-04, 07:08 AM	Buffy's regenerative powers are quite phenomenal. When she was less than a year into the Slayer gig she was drowned by the Master, then revived a couple minutes later in fine form to track him down and best him in single combat. Angel drank Buffy about 3 quarts low but she was still ready to fight the ascended mayor demon hours later. In her first week at college her arm was wailed on and she possibly had a greenstick fracture; yet the arm was sore but functional for fighting the next night. Buffy was stabbed in the gut and healed with only a first aid bandage. Later she was, indeed, shot in the heart yet survived to get treatment at the E.R. When Willow intervened she scattered the medics who'd cut Buffy open and Buffy did flatline again, briefly, before Willow healed her up magically. Finally Buffy did die completely when she sacrificed herself to close the interdimensional portal, but that still didn't keep her from being brought back. Buffy also has damage reduction. When the robot (played by John Ritter) smacked her with his mechanical might she didn't have any bruises to make her story convincing when questioned by the police about how she came to "kill" him. Finally, Buffy's strength as of her battle with Glory was just amazing. Remember, she used the troll god hammer with ease. If this was made of steel then based on the dimensions I'd put Buffy at a minimum of 43 STR -- the same as a Titan.
Twisted Puppy 01-31-04, 08:27 AM	Just a point: There are already Slayers in D&D. They are a prestige class in the Psionics Handbook - and "anyone can be a slayer, you just have to hate Illithids enough."
Lord Tarran 01-31-04, 10:19 AM	The Slayer prestige class, though good, is not what a slayer is.
Iron Chef Vastrox 01-31-04, 05:20 PM	Originally posted by Lord Tarran The Slayer prestige class, though good, is not what a slayer is. It's exactly what a Slayer is. Just not what Buffy is. :teach:
Lord Tarran 01-31-04, 05:37 PM	Or any slayer in the Buffy Mythos. Its not a prestige class. Slayerhood is given, not learned. Last time I noticed, psionic slayers can be anyone, and don't get ridiculously boosted stats, or automaticly super powered hands or... ARGH! Did you read any of the previous posts?
fractal 01-31-04, 06:00 PM	Okay, first, Buffy does not have damage reduction. All of the things that should damage her, do damage her, with the possible exception of falling. And that can be better explained by something like Tumble or Slow Fall. Blows may be less incapacitating to her - but that's explanable by a high Con and good hp, which she obviously has. Buffy (and other Slayers) does recover extremely quickly from injuries, of course. The bruises, which she does take from the robot, simply heal before she talks to the cops. They're only bruises, after all. As far as her arm in Season 4 goes... it was only hurt, not broken. So, this can be represented via Fast Healing, Regeneration, Accelerated Recovery, or something else (like Wholeness of Body). I think Regeneration is a poor choice, Slayers don't regenerate actual lost extremities, nor do they survive wounds that would instantly kill a human. They're just much tougher, so if a human has a small chance for survival, a Slayer has a good chance. Wholeness of Body is an activated ability, there's no evidence of Slayers deliberately choosing to heal. That leaves us with Fast Healing and Accelerated Recovery. Either could work, but I definitely like the suggestion that a Slayer just heals as much in an hour, as a normal human would in a day. That seems like a suitable mechanic, that accounts for the fact that Buffy DOES get injured by things, and is not immediately better, but by the next day she's ready to go back and try again. To those arguing ridiculously high strength, I say again, there's no evidence of Buffy casually carrying around cars on her back (or in one hand). Yes, she might be able to lift a small one, but only briefly - it would be the limit of her strength. That puts her in the low-mid 20's. So, a Slayer Template: Modified from the base creature as follows: Str +10, Dex +10, Con +10, Wis +4 Low Light Vision. Accelerated Healing: A Slayer heals as much in 1 hour, as an equivalent normal human would in one day of similar activity. This applies to both hp and ability damage. The total character level and Monk levels of a Slayer stack, for purposes of determining a Slayer's unarmed attack damage, and unencumbered movement rate. Slayers occasionally receive prophetic dreams, regarding past Slayers, or local supernatural events or forces. The DM may implement or ignore this as he wishes, as it's rather sporadic. LA +7, CR +3 Now there's no more need for all Slayers to have levels in Monk, although those who do can be rewarded. Now, we have final levels for Buffy: Rog2/Mnk2/Rgr14, ECL 25 Final level for Faith: Rog11, ECL 18 Kendra: Ftr6, ECL 13 ~20 new Slayers who survive Season 7: ~Ftr4, as a group EL 15 I figure Buffy started Season 1 as about a Rog1/Rgr2, and advanced from there. Make sense?
Willie the Duck 01-31-04, 09:30 PM	Originally posted by anglar Firstly, simply because I choose to avoid tainting the name of vampire by calling what she fights by that name does not mean that I am not familar with her "exploits". 1) I'd say the name of vampire is, by definition, tainted. 2) there are, to count, over 60 cultural variations on the basic theme of vampire, from nosferatu to lillitu to loogaru as well as a couple hundred 20th century popular culture/movie interpretations (a good gamers guide to these is GURPS: Blood Types). The fact that the Joss Whedon interpretation doesn't match your favorite interpretation is no failing on its part. As for Strahd, he is quite literally a god, forsaken forever to his own land. 1) not even in the non-core Ravenloft system is he a god. 2) how is being forsaken a boon, or evidence of great power? No vampire she has ever crossed paths with even has the power to dissappate into the very air before she's done with them. The very reason she starts to fight "demons, spellcasters, and gods" is because it became quite obvious that what they call vampires are a pathetic copy. Did the average Buffypire have an INT and WIS of 4? In a setting like that give me one good reason why a Buffypire wouldn't simply hire a mortal hitman with a highpowered rifle to put a bullet through her head? Bye-bye Buffy! Or better yet, fill her house with sleep gas, capture her, and hold her prisoner until she dies of old age? The Buffypires are simply too stupid, along with every other opponent she ever had, to be worthy to be called real adversaries. because they are beastial creatures that take care of business with their own fangs. If Strahd hires assassins to off his enemy, that makes him an excellent Mob boss, not an exceptional vampire. Thirdly, wasn't is quaint how both Spike and Angel fell in love with Buffy? Depends on what you view as quant. Buffy is clearly a rather messed up person, forever seperate from other people by her burden and her knowledge that she will have a short, bloody life. That would certainly appeal to a tortured, penitant outsider like Angel and a creature seperated from his inner nature and alone among those who despise him like chipped up Spike. Lastly, we are not friends. Given the way you talk to strangers, I doubt you have any.
fractal 02-02-04, 12:00 AM	Originally posted by Lord Tarran Yes, but she whooped Spike, who was fighting in earnest. I'll remind you that Spike killed two slayers, both well trained, and bested Buffy and Faith at times. He also once beat Angelus. She did this with just the base stats of the slayer, and her insanity. She got the jump on Spike, and attacked him in a way he wasn't expecting. Most fights in the Buffyverse that are at all close, swing back and forth a few times, yet the expected winner almost always comes out on top. In this instance, the underdog had a trick she used to claim victory, in what would otherwise have been merely a temporary swing of fortune. Spike was almost certainly ready for anything he might have expected her to do that could threaten him, for example, using a stake. And Spike never bested, or even fought, Faith. Buffy took worse against a lot of foes, against whom she later triumphed decisively. Her secret lay in her ability to run away (or be left for dead, but hey). Also, we don't know what levels or feats Dana might have, even without formal training. Her rough life might well have given her something. And incidentally, Joyce beat Buffy in exactly the same way that Dana beat Spike, at one point. Did that make Joyce a better or even comparable fighter to Buffy? Of course not.
Skyrocket 02-02-04, 01:02 AM	We should also keep in mind that martial arts abilities come to Slayers to some degree even untrained. Remember Dawn's friend who turned out to be a Potential? So just say the Slayer template let's the character have some, but not all, monk abilities as they progress.
Qube 02-02-04, 02:32 AM	like +4 vs fear
HyperactiveBuffalo 02-02-04, 07:02 AM	I say go straight fighter, and specialize in unarmed combat. put your best score in dex. for feat selection, choose the unarmed combat feats, and weapon specialization unarmed. as has been pointed out, vampires are different in D&D but im figuring you want that style of character, not necissarily THAT character. Id give her some magic items that replicate her abilities. a ring of detect evil with permenency might work, but making her any of the races that can detect evil at will would work too (Assimar do a fine job). the nice thing is, with fighter you have martial weapon proficiency, and simple so all of the weird ass weapons she uses could be used with relative ease.
polt 02-02-04, 07:20 AM	But we know for a fact that buffy is human, and that she doesnt use a ring or anything. But i agree that she has some kind of detect evil.
HyperactiveBuffalo 02-02-04, 08:09 AM	no, what we know for certain is that buffy is a slayer. she was 'born apart'. yes, shes human, but shes something else too. she has been invested with the power of the slayer, a mystical thing. why not represent this as being an assimar? their traits work well with the idea, and they are human (remember, the average assimar has two human parents) except that somewhere far back, they are related to something that was more. and their innate abilities are handy, and do a relatively fair job of reflecting her abilities. *shrug* I think what is important is that you recognize that you cannot model buffy accurately with this ruleset, what you CAN do is try to recreate the basic concept as best as possible.
anglar 02-02-04, 06:59 PM	Originally posted by Willie the Duck 1) I'd say the name of vampire is, by definition, tainted. 2) there are, to count, over 60 cultural variations on the basic theme of vampire, from nosferatu to lillitu to loogaru as well as a couple hundred 20th century popular culture/movie interpretations (a good gamers guide to these is GURPS: Blood Types). The fact that the Joss Whedon interpretation doesn't match your favorite interpretation is no failing on its part. 1) not even in the non-core Ravenloft system is he a god. 2) how is being forsaken a boon, or evidence of great power? because they are beastial creatures that take care of business with their own fangs. If Strahd hires assassins to off his enemy, that makes him an excellent Mob boss, not an exceptional vampire. Depends on what you view as quant. Buffy is clearly a rather messed up person, forever seperate from other people by her burden and her knowledge that she will have a short, bloody life. That would certainly appeal to a tortured, penitant outsider like Angel and a creature seperated from his inner nature and alone among those who despise him like chipped up Spike. Given the way you talk to strangers, I doubt you have any. Strahd - In the land of Barovia, Strahd is a god. His being forsaken was simply a comment on his situation. True vampires are quite capable sentient thought. While killing Buffy in her Buffyverse is near impossible, everyone failed to mention the propect of capturing her. With spells like temporal stasis present in this (D&D) universe, it would only be a matter of time before someone, vampire or someone in league with them, captured the slayer and then would be done with them. Friends - get me on a topic other than this one and you'd be surprised how my attitude changes. I can actually be quite a likable person. I simply hate this topic. As fractal presented, a Buffy template would result in a LA of +7. That means for every group with a Buffy in it, the others must either accept being far underpowered when compared to the Buffy or leave the Buffy behind seeing as she is 7 levels behinds in BAB, HP, Saves, Skills, Feats, etc. While it may work in that game, in D&D, where parties are usually very close to each other in power level, it can almost not work unless the above stated conditions are met.
fractal 02-02-04, 07:00 PM	Originally posted by polt But we know for a fact that buffy is human, and that she doesnt use a ring or anything. But i agree that she has some kind of detect evil. I don't really think she does have detect evil. I don't recall her ever detecting evil. A good case could be made that she has Sense Motive skill, however, which is why she often becomes suspicious of people who later turn out to be questionable.
fractal 02-02-04, 07:21 PM	Originally posted by anglar While killing Buffy in her Buffyverse is near impossible, everyone failed to mention the propect of capturing her. With spells like temporal stasis present in this (D&D) universe, it would only be a matter of time before someone, vampire or someone in league with them, captured the slayer and then would be done with them. Presumably that's why the Watchers' Council and the like exists. Although they may be willing to have the Slayer die (a new one is created, after all), having her permanently taken out of commission would be unacceptable. They'd go find a high level Wizard (if they didn't already have one in the organization) to get her out again. As fractal presented, a Buffy template would result in a LA of +7. That means for every group with a Buffy in it, the others must either accept being far underpowered when compared to the Buffy or leave the Buffy behind seeing as she is 7 levels behinds in BAB, HP, Saves, Skills, Feats, etc. While it may work in that game, in D&D, where parties are usually very close to each other in power level, it can almost not work unless the above stated conditions are met. This is only true if Level Adjustments don't actually work. While I agree that a level 1 Slayer is no match for a normal 8th level PC, due to extremely low hp, by about 4th level or so the Slayer ought to be competitive with level 11 characters. Sure, the level 11 character has 7 more levels of saves, but the Slayer has extra stat bonuses of +5 Fort, +5 Reflex, +2 Will. The level 11 character has 7 more levels of BAB, but the Slayer has +5 melee attacks from Str, and +5 ranged attacks from Dex, etc. The level 11 character has 7 more levels of hp, but the Slayer has +20 hp from Con, and +5 ac due to high Dex. All skills that rely upon a physical stat receive a +5 boost as well. I wouldn't attempt to play a spellcasting Slayer, since lost caster levels are very hard to make up, and that doesn't take proper advantage of a Slayer's high physical stats. However, a combat Slayer should be quite capable.
Willie the Duck 02-02-04, 07:22 PM	Originally posted by anglar As fractal presented, a Buffy template would result in a LA of +7. That means for every group with a Buffy in it, the others must either accept being far underpowered when compared to the Buffy or leave the Buffy behind seeing as she is 7 levels behinds in BAB, HP, Saves, Skills, Feats, etc. While it may work in that game, in D&D, where parties are usually very close to each other in power level, it can almost not work unless the above stated conditions are met. Action TV (and movies) are like this. Multiple people adventure together, but one is usually seriously more powerful than the others, but no one minds because everyone can empathize with everyone on screen (i.e. no one is "stuck" playing the wussy character). Also note that tv characters actual power level varies every episode (in this latest episode of angel, where the 12 newbie slayers mexican standoffed angel, my first thought was "Angel should cut through these freshmen like a hot knife through butter", but apparently the writers decided he wasn't that powerful this episode).
Lord Tarran 02-02-04, 07:26 PM	Originally posted by Willie the Duck Action TV (and movies) are like this. Multiple people adventure together, but one is usually seriously more powerful than the others, but no one minds because everyone can empathize with everyone on screen (i.e. no one is "stuck" playing the wussy character). Also note that tv characters actual power level varies every episode (in this latest episode of angel, where the 12 newbie slayers mexican standoffed angel, my first thought was "Angel should cut through these freshmen like a hot knife through butter", but apparently the writers decided he wasn't that powerful this episode). And one point for Willie:D . On angel, he was also back by a bunch of guys with guns, ignoring his own tons of experience. Anyway, he brings up a good point. I think though, we should move over to monsters lair, or races maybe, and set up a thread just to create a slayer template, and one that will keep them on par with others of their level (like extra hitdie if you have template.) Yay or Nay?
Votan 02-02-04, 11:20 PM	Okay, my best guess. Buffy has very, very high strength and constitution (which is why she heals relatively fast). Maybe as high as 30 in each. Class is a tough one. To be honest, if you made an alignment exception Monk is by far the best possible way to model Buffy. Perhaps Slayer is a type of Monk that can be non-lawful?? Otherwise I'd tend to think she is a Ranger with unarmed fighting feats. Rogue doesn't seem to fit as she doesn't show the variety of "sneaky" skills that I'd expect to see in a Rogue (even with just a level or two). So I'd be rluctant to go that route. Certainly she could also be modelled as a figher with very high physical stats.
fractal 02-02-04, 11:31 PM	Originally posted by Votan Rogue doesn't seem to fit as she doesn't show the variety of "sneaky" skills that I'd expect to see in a Rogue (even with just a level or two). So I'd be rluctant to go that route. Well, Buffy is certainly not full Rogue. However, she definitely makes use of the skills of Bluff and Sense Motive, as well as the various physical skills. If you're trying to make up for levels gained as another class as well, that could easily go through all of the Rogue skill points.