Building a Better Druid? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building a Better Druid? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jfh33
04-28-04, 02:04 PM I am trying to build an Elf Druid for a Living Greyhawk campaign, but I am frustrated. My main concern is melee attacks. Right now, my Druid's ability scores make him a good ranged attacker, but a terrible melee attacker. I want to contribute to my party's well-being, but a sling is not a could way to do damage. Can a druid use a bow because of the Elvan archery profiency?

Basically, is it all or nothing with a Druid, regardless or race or multiclass? I honestly don't understand why Druid's can use a Scimitar (assumed to be made of metal) and not a bow, (one of the earliest ranged attack inventions going back to the cavemen.)

BTW, his abilties as they stand are:

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 10
And I was going to go with Improved Inititive as a feat.
Ogre Mage
04-28-04, 02:20 PM Your elven druid can still use a bow as well as longswords. This is one of the strongest advantages of a low-level elven druid. There is no ethical restriction against using bows ... but only elven druids are auto-proficient in them.
DruidWithoutACause
04-28-04, 02:21 PM I have the same question and can not find a difintive answer. Hope you find out so i can too.
Thorak
04-28-04, 02:26 PM The bar-none best way to help in melee with a druid is through Wildshape. Sure, it's not till 5th level, but prior to that the differences between the classes combat-wise is fairly minimal, a point or two of BAB. While your strength isn't helpful, that's the price you pay for making it weak, negligible damage in melee. So if you're not there yet, tough it out for a few levels; once you can turn into a Black Bear, your strength becomes 19 and you get three attacks a round. Should be plenty to help the fighters out a bit.
jfh33
04-28-04, 04:00 PM Ogre Mage, thanks for the info about the archer and long sword. Do you know if there is documentation supporting this so that I might show it to my DM, in case it becomes an issue?
Thannin
04-28-04, 04:17 PM As per page 34 of the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 edition of the Players handbook, it specifically says when a druid loses his supernatural or spell-like class abilities, as well as druid spellcasting. It specifies prohibited armor or prohibited shields, it makes no reference to weapons. However druids have a list of weapons they are proficient with and as an elven druid you have access to a bow and sword. Also, note Druids of Meilikki, as per the Forgotten Realms Handbook, can wear and are proficient with all martial weapons, all armor, and all shields.
Thannin
04-28-04, 04:17 PM As per page 34 of the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 edition of the Players handbook, it specifically says when a druid loses his supernatural or spell-like class abilities, as well as druid spellcasting. It specifies prohibited armor or prohibited shields, it makes no reference to weapons. However druids have a list of weapons they are proficient with and as an elven druid you have access to a bow and sword. Also, note Druids of Meilikki, as per the Forgotten Realms Handbook, can wear and are proficient with all martial weapons, all armor, and all shields.
jfh33
04-28-04, 04:24 PM Thannin, thank you. I understand now. Non-proficiency does not mean that the weapon is prohibited. Awesome. That makes much more sense to me know.

And thanks to Ogre Mage for updating his post. I didn't see that until after I replied.
Sisyfos
04-28-04, 06:13 PM If you want more information on how to build an effective druid follow the link in my signature to HB_druids.

Sisyfos
jfh33
04-28-04, 07:13 PM Sisyfos, that is AWESOME. Thanks for the info. THough I am playing Living Greyhawk which is all 3.5 without any of the old add-on books (MotW, for instance) I should be able to use a lot of the information here, (now if they only had a strict 3.5 version, that would be even better, though I am checking out some of the related threads.)
Thannin
04-28-04, 08:38 PM No problem for helping, I had a druid of Melikki in LC and it roxxed the boxxors!! Wildshaped into some big 2 legged beast animal guy, with full plate and two huge swords. Woord. LG is awesome as far as the new modules but trust me, you dont need a link to help you build an effective druid. An effective character is one that you build and are comfortable wit. If you dont like your character he isnt effective. Period. End argument.
Ogre Mage
04-29-04, 03:32 AM jfh33,

Glad that we could be of help. Druids are versatile and can be built a number of different ways. I will impart only one golden rule: at level 6, the Natural Spell feat is a must.
Cross Hatch
04-29-04, 07:26 AM Originally posted by Thorak
The bar-none best way to help in melee with a druid is through Wildshape. Sure, it's not till 5th level, but prior to that the differences between the classes combat-wise is fairly minimal, a point or two of BAB. While your strength isn't helpful, that's the price you pay for making it weak, negligible damage in melee. So if you're not there yet, tough it out for a few levels; once you can turn into a Black Bear, your strength becomes 19 and you get three attacks a round. Should be plenty to help the fighters out a bit.

Which may be true, but is still a mistake.
Druids should get the most use out of their wildshapes. That's, typically, done with scouting and surprise tactics.
They should concentrate on shaping the battlefield when in combat.
Thorak
04-29-04, 08:15 AM That depends entirely on the DM and the campaign. If you're in an open-terrain traveling campaign, scouting is invaluable. In a dungeon crawl, it's quite possible that there's going to be a encounter behind every door, and opening the door to scout will trigger the encounter regardless. At least, in the adventure I just finished with my group, no scouting or surprise tactics would have been really possible, in any form. The advantage of Wildshape isn't one or the other; it's that it gives the druid the flexibility to do both depending on the circumstances.

Besides, at high levels you start having quite a few Wildshapes. With Natural Spell, it's pretty easy for the Dire Bear-shaped Druid to Withdraw and do all the battlefield shaping he wants to. While still saving his 5 or 6 other Wildshapes for some future scouting bits. After which he can likewise cast a bunch while in Hawk form (to pick a decent scouting form) before Shaping back into a combat form to help out when his spells are gone.

I wasn't trying to suggest a druid should always be in the front lines in a combat form. I was suggesting the easiest way for a druid to improve their melee ability.
SmiloDan
04-29-04, 01:38 PM I play an elven druid archer. It's really fun. My druid is one of the most flexible and versatile characters I've ever played. I'm currently 9th level, but I started at 1st. I took Point Blank Shot at 1st level, Rapid Shot at 3rd (and you can rapid shoot Produce Flame missiles too!), Natural Spell at 6th, and Craft Wand at 9th (we really need some wands of Cure Light Wounds). I maxed out Concentration, Listen, Spellcraft, and Spot, and put a lot of points in Handle Animal and Survival. I put a smattering of points in Swim (we were underwater for several levels), Diplomacy, Knowledge (nature), Ride, etc. I'm thinking of putting some in Heal to help with Longterm Care.

My druid is deadly in ranged combat, can wildshape for melee, has spells of healing, blasting, buffing, and utility, is an awesome scout (+18 on Listen and Spot checks at level 9!), and if I had built him a little differenty, an excellent diplomat (I used Cha as my dump stat....oh, well).

And animal companions rock! I have an Irish Wolfhound that wears barding, and his AC is 28 I think. The DM let me roll up stats for my dog, so he's a little bit (OK, a lot!) more uber than normal, but even if my I still had my original animal companion (orcs killed him, then killed me on the AoO I provoked to heal him...I hate greataxe criticals, but love potions of Raise Dead...again, a generous DM), it would still be quite deadly.

I haven't made too much use of the battlefield shaping spells, but I'm looking into them.
jfh33
04-29-04, 04:00 PM Smilodan

Thanks for the info. After reading about the Druid Handbook, I have actaully built a second 1st level Druid that I might use instead of the Elven Archer Druid.

Since I am playing Living Greyhawk, I have to be more careful how I build, (the rules for LG are strictly enforced.)

The new concept I have is a type of artist savant, (kind of like Dustin Hoffman in the movie Rainman.) Human, with absolutely no social skills. In fact, he just speaks in random babble half of the time, mainly due to the fact that he has been touched by a god to be a Druid, (their was some static on the line during the calling, so he's a little whacked out, and has better communication with his familiar than with the party members.)

However, he has mad Wisdom and Consitition skills so that he might live to 5th level when he can wild shape.

Str 8
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 8

How about that?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jfh33 04-28-04, 02:04 PM	I am trying to build an Elf Druid for a Living Greyhawk campaign, but I am frustrated. My main concern is melee attacks. Right now, my Druid's ability scores make him a good ranged attacker, but a terrible melee attacker. I want to contribute to my party's well-being, but a sling is not a could way to do damage. Can a druid use a bow because of the Elvan archery profiency? Basically, is it all or nothing with a Druid, regardless or race or multiclass? I honestly don't understand why Druid's can use a Scimitar (assumed to be made of metal) and not a bow, (one of the earliest ranged attack inventions going back to the cavemen.) BTW, his abilties as they stand are: Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 10 And I was going to go with Improved Inititive as a feat.
Ogre Mage 04-28-04, 02:20 PM	Your elven druid can still use a bow as well as longswords. This is one of the strongest advantages of a low-level elven druid. There is no ethical restriction against using bows ... but only elven druids are auto-proficient in them.
DruidWithoutACause 04-28-04, 02:21 PM	I have the same question and can not find a difintive answer. Hope you find out so i can too.
Thorak 04-28-04, 02:26 PM	The bar-none best way to help in melee with a druid is through Wildshape. Sure, it's not till 5th level, but prior to that the differences between the classes combat-wise is fairly minimal, a point or two of BAB. While your strength isn't helpful, that's the price you pay for making it weak, negligible damage in melee. So if you're not there yet, tough it out for a few levels; once you can turn into a Black Bear, your strength becomes 19 and you get three attacks a round. Should be plenty to help the fighters out a bit.
jfh33 04-28-04, 04:00 PM	Ogre Mage, thanks for the info about the archer and long sword. Do you know if there is documentation supporting this so that I might show it to my DM, in case it becomes an issue?
Thannin 04-28-04, 04:17 PM	As per page 34 of the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 edition of the Players handbook, it specifically says when a druid loses his supernatural or spell-like class abilities, as well as druid spellcasting. It specifies prohibited armor or prohibited shields, it makes no reference to weapons. However druids have a list of weapons they are proficient with and as an elven druid you have access to a bow and sword. Also, note Druids of Meilikki, as per the Forgotten Realms Handbook, can wear and are proficient with all martial weapons, all armor, and all shields.
Thannin 04-28-04, 04:17 PM	As per page 34 of the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 edition of the Players handbook, it specifically says when a druid loses his supernatural or spell-like class abilities, as well as druid spellcasting. It specifies prohibited armor or prohibited shields, it makes no reference to weapons. However druids have a list of weapons they are proficient with and as an elven druid you have access to a bow and sword. Also, note Druids of Meilikki, as per the Forgotten Realms Handbook, can wear and are proficient with all martial weapons, all armor, and all shields.
jfh33 04-28-04, 04:24 PM	Thannin, thank you. I understand now. Non-proficiency does not mean that the weapon is prohibited. Awesome. That makes much more sense to me know. And thanks to Ogre Mage for updating his post. I didn't see that until after I replied.
Sisyfos 04-28-04, 06:13 PM	If you want more information on how to build an effective druid follow the link in my signature to HB_druids. Sisyfos
jfh33 04-28-04, 07:13 PM	Sisyfos, that is AWESOME. Thanks for the info. THough I am playing Living Greyhawk which is all 3.5 without any of the old add-on books (MotW, for instance) I should be able to use a lot of the information here, (now if they only had a strict 3.5 version, that would be even better, though I am checking out some of the related threads.)
Thannin 04-28-04, 08:38 PM	No problem for helping, I had a druid of Melikki in LC and it roxxed the boxxors!! Wildshaped into some big 2 legged beast animal guy, with full plate and two huge swords. Woord. LG is awesome as far as the new modules but trust me, you dont need a link to help you build an effective druid. An effective character is one that you build and are comfortable wit. If you dont like your character he isnt effective. Period. End argument.
Ogre Mage 04-29-04, 03:32 AM	jfh33, Glad that we could be of help. Druids are versatile and can be built a number of different ways. I will impart only one golden rule: at level 6, the Natural Spell feat is a must.
Cross Hatch 04-29-04, 07:26 AM	Originally posted by Thorak The bar-none best way to help in melee with a druid is through Wildshape. Sure, it's not till 5th level, but prior to that the differences between the classes combat-wise is fairly minimal, a point or two of BAB. While your strength isn't helpful, that's the price you pay for making it weak, negligible damage in melee. So if you're not there yet, tough it out for a few levels; once you can turn into a Black Bear, your strength becomes 19 and you get three attacks a round. Should be plenty to help the fighters out a bit. Which may be true, but is still a mistake. Druids should get the most use out of their wildshapes. That's, typically, done with scouting and surprise tactics. They should concentrate on shaping the battlefield when in combat.
Thorak 04-29-04, 08:15 AM	That depends entirely on the DM and the campaign. If you're in an open-terrain traveling campaign, scouting is invaluable. In a dungeon crawl, it's quite possible that there's going to be a encounter behind every door, and opening the door to scout will trigger the encounter regardless. At least, in the adventure I just finished with my group, no scouting or surprise tactics would have been really possible, in any form. The advantage of Wildshape isn't one or the other; it's that it gives the druid the flexibility to do both depending on the circumstances. Besides, at high levels you start having quite a few Wildshapes. With Natural Spell, it's pretty easy for the Dire Bear-shaped Druid to Withdraw and do all the battlefield shaping he wants to. While still saving his 5 or 6 other Wildshapes for some future scouting bits. After which he can likewise cast a bunch while in Hawk form (to pick a decent scouting form) before Shaping back into a combat form to help out when his spells are gone. I wasn't trying to suggest a druid should always be in the front lines in a combat form. I was suggesting the easiest way for a druid to improve their melee ability.
SmiloDan 04-29-04, 01:38 PM	I play an elven druid archer. It's really fun. My druid is one of the most flexible and versatile characters I've ever played. I'm currently 9th level, but I started at 1st. I took Point Blank Shot at 1st level, Rapid Shot at 3rd (and you can rapid shoot Produce Flame missiles too!), Natural Spell at 6th, and Craft Wand at 9th (we really need some wands of Cure Light Wounds). I maxed out Concentration, Listen, Spellcraft, and Spot, and put a lot of points in Handle Animal and Survival. I put a smattering of points in Swim (we were underwater for several levels), Diplomacy, Knowledge (nature), Ride, etc. I'm thinking of putting some in Heal to help with Longterm Care. My druid is deadly in ranged combat, can wildshape for melee, has spells of healing, blasting, buffing, and utility, is an awesome scout (+18 on Listen and Spot checks at level 9!), and if I had built him a little differenty, an excellent diplomat (I used Cha as my dump stat....oh, well). And animal companions rock! I have an Irish Wolfhound that wears barding, and his AC is 28 I think. The DM let me roll up stats for my dog, so he's a little bit (OK, a lot!) more uber than normal, but even if my I still had my original animal companion (orcs killed him, then killed me on the AoO I provoked to heal him...I hate greataxe criticals, but love potions of Raise Dead...again, a generous DM), it would still be quite deadly. I haven't made too much use of the battlefield shaping spells, but I'm looking into them.
jfh33 04-29-04, 04:00 PM	Smilodan Thanks for the info. After reading about the Druid Handbook, I have actaully built a second 1st level Druid that I might use instead of the Elven Archer Druid. Since I am playing Living Greyhawk, I have to be more careful how I build, (the rules for LG are strictly enforced.) The new concept I have is a type of artist savant, (kind of like Dustin Hoffman in the movie Rainman.) Human, with absolutely no social skills. In fact, he just speaks in random babble half of the time, mainly due to the fact that he has been touched by a god to be a Druid, (their was some static on the line during the calling, so he's a little whacked out, and has better communication with his familiar than with the party members.) However, he has mad Wisdom and Consitition skills so that he might live to 5th level when he can wild shape. Str 8 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 8 How about that?