Building Vow of Poverty into a new class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Building Vow of Poverty into a new class [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lia Nightdemon
01-29-07, 07:02 PM I'm considering making a class that yearns to strengthen the soul. Those who take up the arts of this class give up most of their material poscessions. They enpower thier souls and do not have to rely on magic items and other items.

Basically I wanted to give them the benefits of Vow of poverty, as well as a few other abilities which i'm not certain on yet. They would get a soul bolt similiar to the warlock eldritch blast or the soulbows arrows aka x amount of damage which increases every few levels and can be used at will. They basically get no armor or weapon proficiencies and can only get items from a small list of things. For if played correctly they feel that material pocessions are pointless.

IS this plausable for a balanced class?
Yuntil
01-29-07, 07:06 PM I don't see why not. The warlock is a very impressive class and i have actually had a VoP Warlock in a group I played with a few months back. SCARY!
A good version of the warlock would be interesting to see. Replace all the "evil" feel with "good" flavor. Angel's Sight, Archon's Luck and so forth.
Lia Nightdemon
01-29-07, 07:14 PM i'm not making a good warlock. i'm making new class that just gets an ability similar to eldritch bolt, aswell has the VOP benefits without having to take the feats. And they would be more neutrel if anything cause, they wouldn't give it away, they would most likely destroy the wealth (so the rest of the party doesn't get extra loot, unless you can have the DM not count you into the loot) finding it getting in the way to the path of spiritual perfection. After all the mind and the body are dead without the soul.
Krusk
01-30-07, 11:36 AM I made a similar class once for a game back in the day. I did it by giving auras to the guy. so he basically radiates holy, and it grants benifits to anyone near by. Or penalties to the enemies near by. I used cleric spells with areas as its auras. Wasnt amazingly powerful but it was fun to play, and was great as a buffer because people only had to stand next to me to be buffed.

Im assuming your also planning to make it an exhalted class?
Lia Nightdemon
01-30-07, 04:20 PM actually no

they are actualyl more self centered then anything. they don't use equipment cause they think it makes you weak to have to rely on items and food and items for survival.

What they do with thier share of the loot is either lleave it or destroy it.
Krusk
01-30-07, 07:41 PM If it is not an exhalted class, then they cant have VOP. they could be a monk that disdains the use of equipment because it makes them weak, but VOP cant be gained by non exhalted characters.

A self centered character would not be able to gain the feat.

Unless you changed the wording on the feat around, and made it an option for any character. Then that throws all my previous suggestions out the window.
starfire311
01-30-07, 07:44 PM If it is not an exhalted class, then they cant have VOP. they could be a monk that disdains the use of equipment because it makes them weak, but VOP cant be gained by non exhalted characters.

A self centered character would not be able to gain the feat.

Unless you changed the wording on the feat around, and made it an option for any character. Then that throws all my previous suggestions out the window.

I think you missed something here, he wants to create a class that gets the abilities similar to the VoP feat, but does not actually get the VoP feat.
Lia Nightdemon
01-30-07, 09:13 PM it gets most of the stuff of VOp

not everything but the benefits are going to be built into the class i'll post it when I'm done
Krusk
01-31-07, 09:37 AM Yeah, i noticed that towards the end here.

So basically you want a monk class. Read over everything the monk gets and see if that works, or use it for suggestions.
starfire311
01-31-07, 10:09 AM Yeah, i noticed that towards the end here.

So basically you want a monk class. Read over everything the monk gets and see if that works, or use it for suggestions.

That is what I was kinda thinking, but he wants to replace unarmed strike damage with eldritch blast, and give some other bonuses to make up for the loss of gear.
travellersside
01-31-07, 10:41 AM You'll be running into some problems. Firstly look over the average sort of things that a moderately high level character needs to be capable of. Then, see which of them are now going to have to be provided by someone else.

There is a reason why a VoP monk is almost useless at high levels, but a VoP druid has a great time. Getting a high bonus is one thing, missing out on options is something very different.

If this class is as self-sufficient as you imply, should it really be depending on other people to heal? If there's combat, is it going to be able to handle incorporeal foes? Overcome, bypass or render irrelevant DR? Warlocks ignore DR by having an untyped attack that has nothing to do with DR, but instead suffers from SR. There is an option to reduce your damage to typed, this allowing energy resistance, but ignoring SR. How will you manage this? By copying the warlock, or through some new mechanic?

VoP monks become ineffective, since they aren't capable of overcoming a variety of DR. Or incorporeality for that matter. Normally, they can draw a weapon for this sort of situation, but if they aren't allowed weapons, they don't have this option. Druids aren't bothered, since they either wildshape into something useful or cast a spell. Often both.

It's certainly possible to make a base VoP-type class, but unless you're careful, this class will be extremely poor at the higher levels (VoP is very powerful in low to moderate levels, adequate at moderate to high levels, and a downright liability at the high to very high levels.)

I'd be curious to see a more developed suggestion of what the class would be like.
TrajanCavalous
01-31-07, 02:05 PM travellersside is absolutely right. A cleric or druid is the best class to use with VoP. The VoP abilities are nice but it kills your flexibility in so many areas; mobility, dealing with dr, environmental hazards, unique prots, etc. If there's a caster along to help you out a lot great but overall at higher level it can be harsh. Especially if your dm throws a real variety of opponents and environments at you.
Lia Nightdemon
02-01-07, 06:45 PM well thats why I was thinking the eldritch bolt can be more like the soulbow and be changed with the tye of damage it does. say one day you want frost damage but yeah I still need to think on this

Damn WOW is addictive
timthenchanter
02-01-07, 06:56 PM the forsaker prestige class is kinda similar to what your going for dealing with magic items. in return for not using magic he gets mad saves and bonuses to abilities and gets damage resistance and spell resistance. maybe if you incorperated some of these aspects of the forsaker into it and just changed its bane to items instead of magic that might work out ok.

i dono just an idea
Lia Nightdemon
02-01-07, 06:58 PM thats the idea
belthazzar1113
02-02-07, 04:16 AM if you have access to monte cooks arcana unearthed he made a class that is called the oathsworn. they are basically just commoners untill they swear and oath to complete a task, then all sorts of VOP class abilities kick in that help them acomplish their goal. they don't use weapons or armor, they don't belive in material posessions. the entire focus of the class is simply that with enough will and determination and conviction you can do anything that other people need fancy magic and tools to do. its a very cool concept.

i myself am working on a VoP rewrite to take it out of the realm of exhalted and into the realm of dragons. basically you swear over your treasure to a dragon of a certain power level and your share of loot and treasure is transported to a dragons horde, as their horde grows they share more of their draconic might and essense with you granting you power and abilitiy. similar to the way dracoinic spell pacts work for casters, this would be something the dragons can do for non casters.

the way i am going to work it is that dragons spell pacts cost the dragon HP and give extra spells, and horde pacts give the dragon sources of loot but cost them spell power. and then i am going ot make a draconic nobility pact that gives up some treasure and peices of their horde to more powerful dragons in exchange for draconic might and extra vigor. this is going to be part of my draconic food chain that sets up the dragon nobility and ruling class. the most powerful dragon is the one with the most dragons pledged to him and has the biggest horde (which grants them more power) other dragons first can make pacts with humans and adventurers to gain more treasure and ability and then use that treausure to forge links with more powerful dragons gaiing more powert to make better pacts and thus advance up the dragon hierarchy. adventures do alot of the footwork, but it advances and changes the dragon power structure.

adventurers end up being a sought after commodity in their own right. plus since they solve so many problems and are willing and able to go into places dragons have neither the time nor ability to go to and bring back fabulous prizes this makes everyone happy. including the commoner who can get their draconic noble lord to sponse a group of adventures to take out a roving tribe of orcs for free because its in everyeons best interest to do so. the dragon gets loot from the pact bound fighters, the spell casters are encouracged to make spell pacts to have enough firepower to deal with the orcs giving the dragon more power, and the dragon protects his lands and subjects to ensure their taxes will be on time and bountiful which gives him enough treasure to bribe a more powerful dragon into making a dragon pact to give him more vigor and standing so he can expand his territory over his neighbours.

see? simple. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lia Nightdemon 01-29-07, 07:02 PM	I'm considering making a class that yearns to strengthen the soul. Those who take up the arts of this class give up most of their material poscessions. They enpower thier souls and do not have to rely on magic items and other items. Basically I wanted to give them the benefits of Vow of poverty, as well as a few other abilities which i'm not certain on yet. They would get a soul bolt similiar to the warlock eldritch blast or the soulbows arrows aka x amount of damage which increases every few levels and can be used at will. They basically get no armor or weapon proficiencies and can only get items from a small list of things. For if played correctly they feel that material pocessions are pointless. IS this plausable for a balanced class?
Yuntil 01-29-07, 07:06 PM	I don't see why not. The warlock is a very impressive class and i have actually had a VoP Warlock in a group I played with a few months back. SCARY! A good version of the warlock would be interesting to see. Replace all the "evil" feel with "good" flavor. Angel's Sight, Archon's Luck and so forth.
Lia Nightdemon 01-29-07, 07:14 PM	i'm not making a good warlock. i'm making new class that just gets an ability similar to eldritch bolt, aswell has the VOP benefits without having to take the feats. And they would be more neutrel if anything cause, they wouldn't give it away, they would most likely destroy the wealth (so the rest of the party doesn't get extra loot, unless you can have the DM not count you into the loot) finding it getting in the way to the path of spiritual perfection. After all the mind and the body are dead without the soul.
Krusk 01-30-07, 11:36 AM	I made a similar class once for a game back in the day. I did it by giving auras to the guy. so he basically radiates holy, and it grants benifits to anyone near by. Or penalties to the enemies near by. I used cleric spells with areas as its auras. Wasnt amazingly powerful but it was fun to play, and was great as a buffer because people only had to stand next to me to be buffed. Im assuming your also planning to make it an exhalted class?
Lia Nightdemon 01-30-07, 04:20 PM	actually no they are actualyl more self centered then anything. they don't use equipment cause they think it makes you weak to have to rely on items and food and items for survival. What they do with thier share of the loot is either lleave it or destroy it.
Krusk 01-30-07, 07:41 PM	If it is not an exhalted class, then they cant have VOP. they could be a monk that disdains the use of equipment because it makes them weak, but VOP cant be gained by non exhalted characters. A self centered character would not be able to gain the feat. Unless you changed the wording on the feat around, and made it an option for any character. Then that throws all my previous suggestions out the window.
starfire311 01-30-07, 07:44 PM	If it is not an exhalted class, then they cant have VOP. they could be a monk that disdains the use of equipment because it makes them weak, but VOP cant be gained by non exhalted characters. A self centered character would not be able to gain the feat. Unless you changed the wording on the feat around, and made it an option for any character. Then that throws all my previous suggestions out the window. I think you missed something here, he wants to create a class that gets the abilities similar to the VoP feat, but does not actually get the VoP feat.
Lia Nightdemon 01-30-07, 09:13 PM	it gets most of the stuff of VOp not everything but the benefits are going to be built into the class i'll post it when I'm done
Krusk 01-31-07, 09:37 AM	Yeah, i noticed that towards the end here. So basically you want a monk class. Read over everything the monk gets and see if that works, or use it for suggestions.
starfire311 01-31-07, 10:09 AM	Yeah, i noticed that towards the end here. So basically you want a monk class. Read over everything the monk gets and see if that works, or use it for suggestions. That is what I was kinda thinking, but he wants to replace unarmed strike damage with eldritch blast, and give some other bonuses to make up for the loss of gear.
travellersside 01-31-07, 10:41 AM	You'll be running into some problems. Firstly look over the average sort of things that a moderately high level character needs to be capable of. Then, see which of them are now going to have to be provided by someone else. There is a reason why a VoP monk is almost useless at high levels, but a VoP druid has a great time. Getting a high bonus is one thing, missing out on options is something very different. If this class is as self-sufficient as you imply, should it really be depending on other people to heal? If there's combat, is it going to be able to handle incorporeal foes? Overcome, bypass or render irrelevant DR? Warlocks ignore DR by having an untyped attack that has nothing to do with DR, but instead suffers from SR. There is an option to reduce your damage to typed, this allowing energy resistance, but ignoring SR. How will you manage this? By copying the warlock, or through some new mechanic? VoP monks become ineffective, since they aren't capable of overcoming a variety of DR. Or incorporeality for that matter. Normally, they can draw a weapon for this sort of situation, but if they aren't allowed weapons, they don't have this option. Druids aren't bothered, since they either wildshape into something useful or cast a spell. Often both. It's certainly possible to make a base VoP-type class, but unless you're careful, this class will be extremely poor at the higher levels (VoP is very powerful in low to moderate levels, adequate at moderate to high levels, and a downright liability at the high to very high levels.) I'd be curious to see a more developed suggestion of what the class would be like.
TrajanCavalous 01-31-07, 02:05 PM	travellersside is absolutely right. A cleric or druid is the best class to use with VoP. The VoP abilities are nice but it kills your flexibility in so many areas; mobility, dealing with dr, environmental hazards, unique prots, etc. If there's a caster along to help you out a lot great but overall at higher level it can be harsh. Especially if your dm throws a real variety of opponents and environments at you.
Lia Nightdemon 02-01-07, 06:45 PM	well thats why I was thinking the eldritch bolt can be more like the soulbow and be changed with the tye of damage it does. say one day you want frost damage but yeah I still need to think on this Damn WOW is addictive
timthenchanter 02-01-07, 06:56 PM	the forsaker prestige class is kinda similar to what your going for dealing with magic items. in return for not using magic he gets mad saves and bonuses to abilities and gets damage resistance and spell resistance. maybe if you incorperated some of these aspects of the forsaker into it and just changed its bane to items instead of magic that might work out ok. i dono just an idea
Lia Nightdemon 02-01-07, 06:58 PM	thats the idea
belthazzar1113 02-02-07, 04:16 AM	if you have access to monte cooks arcana unearthed he made a class that is called the oathsworn. they are basically just commoners untill they swear and oath to complete a task, then all sorts of VOP class abilities kick in that help them acomplish their goal. they don't use weapons or armor, they don't belive in material posessions. the entire focus of the class is simply that with enough will and determination and conviction you can do anything that other people need fancy magic and tools to do. its a very cool concept. i myself am working on a VoP rewrite to take it out of the realm of exhalted and into the realm of dragons. basically you swear over your treasure to a dragon of a certain power level and your share of loot and treasure is transported to a dragons horde, as their horde grows they share more of their draconic might and essense with you granting you power and abilitiy. similar to the way dracoinic spell pacts work for casters, this would be something the dragons can do for non casters. the way i am going to work it is that dragons spell pacts cost the dragon HP and give extra spells, and horde pacts give the dragon sources of loot but cost them spell power. and then i am going ot make a draconic nobility pact that gives up some treasure and peices of their horde to more powerful dragons in exchange for draconic might and extra vigor. this is going to be part of my draconic food chain that sets up the dragon nobility and ruling class. the most powerful dragon is the one with the most dragons pledged to him and has the biggest horde (which grants them more power) other dragons first can make pacts with humans and adventurers to gain more treasure and ability and then use that treausure to forge links with more powerful dragons gaiing more powert to make better pacts and thus advance up the dragon hierarchy. adventures do alot of the footwork, but it advances and changes the dragon power structure. adventurers end up being a sought after commodity in their own right. plus since they solve so many problems and are willing and able to go into places dragons have neither the time nor ability to go to and bring back fabulous prizes this makes everyone happy. including the commoner who can get their draconic noble lord to sponse a group of adventures to take out a roving tribe of orcs for free because its in everyeons best interest to do so. the dragon gets loot from the pact bound fighters, the spell casters are encouracged to make spell pacts to have enough firepower to deal with the orcs giving the dragon more power, and the dragon protects his lands and subjects to ensure their taxes will be on time and bountiful which gives him enough treasure to bribe a more powerful dragon into making a dragon pact to give him more vigor and standing so he can expand his territory over his neighbours. see? simple. :)