builds for a dervish [Archive] - Wizards Community

builds for a dervish [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
damudar
06-24-07, 10:37 AM i'm new at d&d but the dervish looks great to me. any1 have any ideas for what i should take b4 and after i can attain the dervish lvls?
The_Shaman
06-24-07, 12:03 PM Do you want to go for TWF or a two-handed weapon? In the former case, you might want to consider leaving a level or two for Tempest, since you meet most of the requirements. Alternatively, dervishes using double weapons could use the extra attack that Exotic WMaster can give, but it means that the character will need to devote a lot of feats to it. As for what classes you can use... IMO practically any class can work, especially if you have good scores and can meet the prerequisites for the feats Dervish requires.

My ideas for builds leading to TWF dervish would be any or any combination of the below classes. Which ones you choose depends on your taste, the backstory of your characters, and the material your DM allows. BTW, I presume that you will be going for the entire dervish progression.
- ranger: allows TWF and provides a lot of skill points for the skill requirements. 2 or 6 levels would be best.
- scout (CAdv): works best with ranger and the swift hunter (CScoundrel) feat. Full attacking when moving means more skirmish damage, and ranger/scouts can apply skirmish to favored enemies normally immune to such damage i.e. undead.
- Fighter: for the feats. 2 or 4 levels (weapon specialization/mastery) would be the classical choice. Darksong Knight (Champions of Valor) is a good way to get the skill prerequisites, if you want to go only with fighter.
- Swashbuckler - free finesse and int to damage at lvl 3. The PHB 2 version also gives you a decent AC boost if you have 2 weapons at lvl 5. More levels wield diminishing returns, but could work, esp. with rogue and daring outlaw (CScoundrel). Has most of the skills as class skills, and is overall decent if you use finessable weapons in both hands. It could use multiclassing to get the required feats.
- rogue - good for getting the skill prerequisites, and offers useful stuff like evasion and UDodge at lvl 4. 4 levels could work. IIRC there are feats to apply SA damage in acrobatic maneuvers, which might include the dervish dance. Still, I would consider it mostly a dip, if at all.
- monk: Some DMs allow variant monk styles that allow a monk to get some of the prerequisite feats as bonus feats. Given the intelligence prerequisite for Expertise, a monk variant running on Intelligence (Carmendine monk from CoValor or Kung Fu Genius from Dragon) is preferable. Versatile unarmed strike or 1 level of the Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries can help you use your fists for a dervish dance.
- Swordsage (ToB): free weapon focus, good for meeting the skill prerequisites, and with useful stances and boosts. I think that blood in the water + thousand cuts + 2 scimitars or kukri can be a great way to boost attack and damage if you wield weapons with a high crit threat range - such as kukri or scimitars. Any number of levels can be fine, I would suggest 4 or 8 .
- Warblade (ToB): same reasons as the fighter, but has more skill points and HDs. Good int. synergy, as well - a very solid class for both dipping and single-class dervishes.
- Psychic Warrior (XPH/SRD): feats and psionics are a good combo, even with medium BAB. 2 or 8 levels would be best imo. A combo with swordsage can be useful for the wisdom synergy, but the BAB might be a bit too low. However, it and the swordsage have reasons to stress wis, while the dervish requires 13+ intelligence and dexterity to meet the feat prerequisites.
- Samurai (OA) - similar to a fighter; more skills and a better will save but poorer feat selection. It could work. 4 or 7 levels might work best. It would be great if you could make your daisho run on character level (through a homebrew feat) or into a legacy weapon.

Ranger/scout (2/4, 6/3 or any other combo) and fighter/swashie (4/3 or 2/5 with the CScoundrel feat) could be the best options for a core game. Warblade/swordsage and warblade/ swashie could work well in ToB.

Two-handed weapon dervishes would probably involve similar builds, but I would consider the barbarian (ideally with the regional feats that make them immune to fatigue; rage + PA + the bonus to attack provided by the dervish dance can be quite formidable) more suited than the ranger or swashbuckler. Of course, YMMV.

PrCs that could work alongside dervish:
- Tempest - you meet all prerequisites except TWF and ITWF at lvl 1 of dervish. Simple, but decent, even if it can't compare with the better ToB options.
- Duelist - for finesse builds. Chances are you will have good dexterity and intelligence, anyway.
- Invisible Blade - meeting the feat prerequisites can be a pain (point blank shot and far shot make little sense if only 1 of the 3 allowed weapons can be thrown), but daggers or kukri are imo quite decent weapons and can be slashing.
- Exotic Weapon Master - filler for a level or two, say if you have chosen to use an exotic weapon.
- Blade Dancer (OA) - you have the feat prerequisites, and any number of levels can be very good to improve your speed and agility
Tallow
06-24-07, 12:19 PM i'm new at d&d but the dervish looks great to me. any1 have any ideas for what i should take b4 and after i can attain the dervish lvls?

What book is the Dervish in again?
The_Shaman
06-24-07, 12:46 PM Complete Warrior.
Tallow
06-24-07, 02:27 PM Wow, I really really like that PrC.

Notice how it indicated that a Dervish can do Bard's Song (if it has it) while doing Dervish Dance?

To really top off on some synergy, and make it easier to gain your feats/skills...

I'd suggest at least 4 levels of Bard, and 5 levels of Swashbuckler. The 5th level of Swashbuckler gives you the virtual Dodge feat, so at 9th level overall you can take Mobility. 4th level Bard gives nothing extra except you can use your Bardic Music for longer, I might even go to 5th level Bard to get Suggestion.

So, you Sing the Inspire Courage song, and give yourself the bonus as well as all your allies. Then enter the Dervish Dance the next round, keep singing, and this could really be a nice synergy. Not to mention when Scimitars become light weapons for you as a Dervish, your Swashbuckler weapon finesse will add your dex bonus to hit instead of strength, should it be higher.

So you start with classes and feats like this...

Human - Combat Expertise
1st level - Bard & Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
2nd level - Swashbuckler
3rd level - Bard
4th level - Swashbuckler
5th level - Bard
6th level - Swashbuckler & Two Weapon Fighting
7th level - Swashbuckler
8th level - Swashbuckler (dodge virtual feat at 5th level Swashbuckler)
9th level - Bard & Mobility
10th level - Bard
11th Level through 20th level - Dervish

Then take Improved and Greater Two Weapon fighting as soon as you can. By the time you get A Thousand Cuts... oh my god! You will qualify for Improved Two Weapon Fighting immediately, so take it at 12th level and fight with two scimitars. You'll have +10/+5 BAB and with two scimitars you'll attack like +9/+9/+4/+4, but in Dervish Dance and singing you'll attack like +11/+11/+6/+6. Not great to hits by level 12, but not bad either, and don't forget, this isn't including any other bonuses you might be getting, like Strength or Dex. Assuming a Dex of at least 18 by 12th (take +1 to 19 at this level so you can take Greater Two Weapon Fighting by 15th) and weapon finesse from Swashbuckler, and assuming at least a +1 magical bonus on each weapon, your attacks now look like +16/+16/+11/+11.

At 15th level, you now have a BAB of +13/+8/+3. With all that I mentioned above, and assuming you have Gloves of Dexterity +2, and at least one weapon at +2, you will have an attack progression of +21/+20/+16/+15/+11/+10. You also have Cleave.

At 20th level, with a BAB of +18/+13/+8/+3, and using A Thousand Cuts, with Improved Critical (Scimitar), assuming you have Gloves of Dexterity +4, and have increased your Dex another +2 at 16th and 20th level. You also have at least one weapon at +3 and the other at +2, you would then look like this while Bard Singing Inspire Courage and Dervish Dancing, +29/+29/+28/+28/+24/+24/+23/+23/+19/+19/+18/+18/+14/+14, with Great Cleave. That's a whopping 14 attacks, each at (assuming at least a +2 STR bonus and a +2 INT bonus) 1d8+7 15-20/x2 crit range and 1d8+5 15-20/x2 and this isn't including any additional weapon abilities. With a 30% crit chance, and 16 attacks, you will probably crit at least 4 or 5 times in a round. Assuming you roll at least one "1" on the to hit rolls, you hit 13 times, and crit say 5 times, for an average of almost 200 damage in a round. Sure, you can only get this once a day... and otherwise you'd only do 7 attacks in a round... but wow. The average damage in this one round doesn't include any great cleave opportunities either.

Alternatively, taking Rogue instead of Bard would reduce your to hit by 1 across the board because of no morale bonus for singing, but you'd get sneak attack damage to add to each of the 14 attacks above if you can A) flank folks everytime you move during the Dervish Dance, B) do it on the first round of combat when you go first and everyone else is flat footed, or C) (my favorite) use Improved Invisibility from your wizard friend, a ring, or some other method. 5 levels of rogue would add 3d6 sneak attack to every attack above, and assuming 13 hits, you'd average another 45 damage in this round. You could easily do over 250 damage in this single round.
The_Shaman
06-24-07, 03:15 PM Ah yes, bard. Another option, although I would prefer it for the Snowflake Wardance maneuver detailed in Frostburn.
Tallow
06-24-07, 09:11 PM Ah yes, bard. Another option, although I would prefer it for the Snowflake Wardance maneuver detailed in Frostburn.

Just looked at that! Wow, add another +3 to hit while in Dervish Dance! That would just devastate a 500hp creature in a single round.
rex_subterrae1008
06-26-07, 10:31 AM Dervish/Shadowdancer... Whirling Blades of Death that can Shadowjump... lol.
Father Dale
06-26-07, 05:32 PM I've always been partial to twf-ing Scout/Ranger/Dervishes. Especially now with the feat for combining Scout and Ranger (Swift Hunter).

Also, using the Ranger alternative class feature in Complete Champion would give you expertise at 4th level, which is a prereq for dervish. Thus, 4 levels of ranger would give 4 feats (inc. twf-ing and combat expertise), lots of skills, good fort/ref saves. Six levels would give another feat (imp twf-ing).
rex_subterrae1008
06-27-07, 10:00 AM This may sound like a stupid question... But can a Dervish/Shadowdancer Shadowjump in the middle of a Dervish Dance? You know, start dancing around, slashing everything in sight, then just Shadowjump to another section of the battle and keep dancing? (I'm thinking of Nightcrawler from X-Men as the basis for this...)
The_Shaman
06-27-07, 10:15 AM I think not, unless you could shadowjump as a swift ability. IIRC you are already taking a full-round action by the dance (full attack, essentially), so jumping would stop it for this round. It gets weird if you have shadow pounce, though (say from the shadowlord PrC). I would ask your DM to arbitrate that one.
Necroramo
06-27-07, 10:21 AM Ta-da! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=629013)
Bukowski
06-27-07, 01:51 PM Two-handed weapon dervishes would probably involve similar builds, but I would consider the barbarian (ideally with the regional feats that make them immune to fatigue; rage + PA + the bonus to attack provided by the dervish dance can be quite formidable) more suited than the ranger or swashbuckler. Of course, YMMV.

The only problem with this is that rage and dervish dance cannot be used at the same time. Barb is still a decent class choice to lead up to dervish, and dervishes with a two-handed weapon + PA indeed do a lot of damage.

I got a lot of mileage from the one dervish I made, human ftr/mon/shou disciple/dervish wielding a glaive. I'm pretty sure Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East) is 3.5, but I'm going off rusty memory here.

Elusive Target tactical feat (CW) is always nice to pick up if you can spare it... both the prereqs and abilities granted by the feat synchronize nicely with dervish.
Karla
06-27-07, 05:40 PM - Swordsage (ToB): free weapon focus,

I checked this one with CustServ - according to them you get the effect of having Weapon Focus with the discipline weapons (i.e. +1 to hit) but you don't count as knowing the feat for the purposes of qualifying for PrC or feat chains.

DMs are free to Houserule otherwise of course, but that was the ruling I got back.
rex_subterrae1008
06-29-07, 12:19 PM This is probably another one of my stupid questions... But would a Dervish use a whip? I know it's nonlethal damage, but it would still look cool in the middle of a Dervish Dance... lol.
aikimiller
06-29-07, 01:49 PM Well, the fastest entry I know of is fighter2/Swashbuckler3
The_Shaman
06-29-07, 05:57 PM The only problem with this is that rage and dervish dance cannot be used at the same time. Barb is still a decent class choice to lead up to dervish, and dervishes with a two-handed weapon + PA indeed do a lot of damage.

Weird, I thought that since they can use expertise, they should be able to go off on dervish dance. Well, considering that perform is a charisma-based ability, I guess you are right - but it can make for a nice houserule.

I got a lot of mileage from the one dervish I made, human ftr/mon/shou disciple/dervish wielding a glaive. I'm pretty sure Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East) is 3.5, but I'm going off rusty memory here.

A little grey, really... I've people call UEast 3.25. On one hand, you have the new skills, but it still talks about an "Unarmed BAB", which is 3.0 concept. Also notice that it talks about EWP: kukri, while the kukri is martial in 3.5 (that was actually reprinted in CDivine). But yeah, that build looks fun :)

Elusive Target tactical feat (CW) is always nice to pick up if you can spare it... both the prereqs and abilities granted by the feat synchronize nicely with dervish.

It is good, if you can get to it. While a dervish is not supposed to be hit, esp flanked, it allows you to set a heckofa trap for those tricky rogues.
Chimaera2000
06-29-07, 10:20 PM Though Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 is the classic choice, I'm a big fan of Fighter 4/Warblade 1. It gives you Weapon Specialization (which means Melee Weapon Mastery from PHB II later on) along with the Blood in the Water Stance, which can improve your damage output considerably. You even get some 2nd-level maneuvers to sweeten the pot.
damudar
06-30-07, 12:28 AM where can i find all of these prestige classes online?
The_Shaman
06-30-07, 03:30 AM You can't, afaik. WotC needs some money, too :) . AFAIK the only free previews are in the compendia, but they are required to show no more than the first 2 levels or so.
damudar
06-30-07, 07:54 AM Though Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 is the classic choice, I'm a big fan of Fighter 4/Warblade 1. It gives you Weapon Specialization (which means Melee Weapon Mastery from PHB II later on) along with the Blood in the Water Stance, which can improve your damage output considerably. You even get some 2nd-level maneuvers to sweeten the pot.

what book is warblade in? and do you think this book would be at the library?
rex_subterrae1008
06-30-07, 09:21 AM what book is warblade in? and do you think this book would be at the library?

I don't which book it's in, but if it's at the library, it'd be at 793 in the nonfiction section...
Aminvelos
06-30-07, 11:36 AM Welcome to Constace

Race: Wood Elf

Feats, Special abilities

1. Ranger Endurance, favored enemy, track, wild empathy
2. Fighter Combat Expertise
3. Fighter Dodge, Exotic (elven exotic weaponry, I forget the feat at the moment)
4. Sleeping Tiger Monk Weapon Finesse, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
5. Sleeping Tiger Monk Improved Initiative, Evasion
6. Sleeping Tiger Monk Mounted Combat, Still Mind (+10 speed bonus)
7. Wild Runner Fast movement(+10 Speed bonus), trackless step
8. Wild Runner Primal Scream, Scent
9. Champion of Corellon Corellon’s blessing, bonus feat(Karmic Strike or Elusive Target), Mobility
10. CoC Elegant Strike
11 Ranger (two weapon fighting)
12. Sword Sage Quick to Act, Weapon focus, Shadow Blade
13. Dervish Dervish Dance, Movement mastery, slashing blades, +1 Ac bonus
14. Dervish Dervish Fast movement +5
15. Dervish Spring Attack, Dervish Dance 2/day, Acrobatic Strike
16. Dervish Dance of Death
17. Dervish Movement goes from +5 to +10, 3/day
18. Dervish Improved Reaction
19. Dervish Elaborate Parry, 4/day
20. Dervish Fast movement goes from +10 to +15

The wild runner scream will give you additional dex and strength, making a 10+ dex modifer at level 12 to be reached as ease. Also you'll be able to add your dex modifer x2 + str mod in damage by level 12.
The_Shaman
06-30-07, 03:07 PM what book is warblade in? and do you think this book would be at the library?

It is in Tome of Battle, and I do not expect it to be in the library. At least, unless the library in your town has recent D&D books... and I don't think I've seen many of those.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
damudar 06-24-07, 10:37 AM	i'm new at d&d but the dervish looks great to me. any1 have any ideas for what i should take b4 and after i can attain the dervish lvls?
The_Shaman 06-24-07, 12:03 PM	Do you want to go for TWF or a two-handed weapon? In the former case, you might want to consider leaving a level or two for Tempest, since you meet most of the requirements. Alternatively, dervishes using double weapons could use the extra attack that Exotic WMaster can give, but it means that the character will need to devote a lot of feats to it. As for what classes you can use... IMO practically any class can work, especially if you have good scores and can meet the prerequisites for the feats Dervish requires. My ideas for builds leading to TWF dervish would be any or any combination of the below classes. Which ones you choose depends on your taste, the backstory of your characters, and the material your DM allows. BTW, I presume that you will be going for the entire dervish progression. - ranger: allows TWF and provides a lot of skill points for the skill requirements. 2 or 6 levels would be best. - scout (CAdv): works best with ranger and the swift hunter (CScoundrel) feat. Full attacking when moving means more skirmish damage, and ranger/scouts can apply skirmish to favored enemies normally immune to such damage i.e. undead. - Fighter: for the feats. 2 or 4 levels (weapon specialization/mastery) would be the classical choice. Darksong Knight (Champions of Valor) is a good way to get the skill prerequisites, if you want to go only with fighter. - Swashbuckler - free finesse and int to damage at lvl 3. The PHB 2 version also gives you a decent AC boost if you have 2 weapons at lvl 5. More levels wield diminishing returns, but could work, esp. with rogue and daring outlaw (CScoundrel). Has most of the skills as class skills, and is overall decent if you use finessable weapons in both hands. It could use multiclassing to get the required feats. - rogue - good for getting the skill prerequisites, and offers useful stuff like evasion and UDodge at lvl 4. 4 levels could work. IIRC there are feats to apply SA damage in acrobatic maneuvers, which might include the dervish dance. Still, I would consider it mostly a dip, if at all. - monk: Some DMs allow variant monk styles that allow a monk to get some of the prerequisite feats as bonus feats. Given the intelligence prerequisite for Expertise, a monk variant running on Intelligence (Carmendine monk from CoValor or Kung Fu Genius from Dragon) is preferable. Versatile unarmed strike or 1 level of the Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries can help you use your fists for a dervish dance. - Swordsage (ToB): free weapon focus, good for meeting the skill prerequisites, and with useful stances and boosts. I think that blood in the water + thousand cuts + 2 scimitars or kukri can be a great way to boost attack and damage if you wield weapons with a high crit threat range - such as kukri or scimitars. Any number of levels can be fine, I would suggest 4 or 8 . - Warblade (ToB): same reasons as the fighter, but has more skill points and HDs. Good int. synergy, as well - a very solid class for both dipping and single-class dervishes. - Psychic Warrior (XPH/SRD): feats and psionics are a good combo, even with medium BAB. 2 or 8 levels would be best imo. A combo with swordsage can be useful for the wisdom synergy, but the BAB might be a bit too low. However, it and the swordsage have reasons to stress wis, while the dervish requires 13+ intelligence and dexterity to meet the feat prerequisites. - Samurai (OA) - similar to a fighter; more skills and a better will save but poorer feat selection. It could work. 4 or 7 levels might work best. It would be great if you could make your daisho run on character level (through a homebrew feat) or into a legacy weapon. Ranger/scout (2/4, 6/3 or any other combo) and fighter/swashie (4/3 or 2/5 with the CScoundrel feat) could be the best options for a core game. Warblade/swordsage and warblade/ swashie could work well in ToB. Two-handed weapon dervishes would probably involve similar builds, but I would consider the barbarian (ideally with the regional feats that make them immune to fatigue; rage + PA + the bonus to attack provided by the dervish dance can be quite formidable) more suited than the ranger or swashbuckler. Of course, YMMV. PrCs that could work alongside dervish: - Tempest - you meet all prerequisites except TWF and ITWF at lvl 1 of dervish. Simple, but decent, even if it can't compare with the better ToB options. - Duelist - for finesse builds. Chances are you will have good dexterity and intelligence, anyway. - Invisible Blade - meeting the feat prerequisites can be a pain (point blank shot and far shot make little sense if only 1 of the 3 allowed weapons can be thrown), but daggers or kukri are imo quite decent weapons and can be slashing. - Exotic Weapon Master - filler for a level or two, say if you have chosen to use an exotic weapon. - Blade Dancer (OA) - you have the feat prerequisites, and any number of levels can be very good to improve your speed and agility
Tallow 06-24-07, 12:19 PM	i'm new at d&d but the dervish looks great to me. any1 have any ideas for what i should take b4 and after i can attain the dervish lvls? What book is the Dervish in again?
The_Shaman 06-24-07, 12:46 PM	Complete Warrior.
Tallow 06-24-07, 02:27 PM	Wow, I really really like that PrC. Notice how it indicated that a Dervish can do Bard's Song (if it has it) while doing Dervish Dance? To really top off on some synergy, and make it easier to gain your feats/skills... I'd suggest at least 4 levels of Bard, and 5 levels of Swashbuckler. The 5th level of Swashbuckler gives you the virtual Dodge feat, so at 9th level overall you can take Mobility. 4th level Bard gives nothing extra except you can use your Bardic Music for longer, I might even go to 5th level Bard to get Suggestion. So, you Sing the Inspire Courage song, and give yourself the bonus as well as all your allies. Then enter the Dervish Dance the next round, keep singing, and this could really be a nice synergy. Not to mention when Scimitars become light weapons for you as a Dervish, your Swashbuckler weapon finesse will add your dex bonus to hit instead of strength, should it be higher. So you start with classes and feats like this... Human - Combat Expertise 1st level - Bard & Weapon Focus (Scimitar) 2nd level - Swashbuckler 3rd level - Bard 4th level - Swashbuckler 5th level - Bard 6th level - Swashbuckler & Two Weapon Fighting 7th level - Swashbuckler 8th level - Swashbuckler (dodge virtual feat at 5th level Swashbuckler) 9th level - Bard & Mobility 10th level - Bard 11th Level through 20th level - Dervish Then take Improved and Greater Two Weapon fighting as soon as you can. By the time you get A Thousand Cuts... oh my god! You will qualify for Improved Two Weapon Fighting immediately, so take it at 12th level and fight with two scimitars. You'll have +10/+5 BAB and with two scimitars you'll attack like +9/+9/+4/+4, but in Dervish Dance and singing you'll attack like +11/+11/+6/+6. Not great to hits by level 12, but not bad either, and don't forget, this isn't including any other bonuses you might be getting, like Strength or Dex. Assuming a Dex of at least 18 by 12th (take +1 to 19 at this level so you can take Greater Two Weapon Fighting by 15th) and weapon finesse from Swashbuckler, and assuming at least a +1 magical bonus on each weapon, your attacks now look like +16/+16/+11/+11. At 15th level, you now have a BAB of +13/+8/+3. With all that I mentioned above, and assuming you have Gloves of Dexterity +2, and at least one weapon at +2, you will have an attack progression of +21/+20/+16/+15/+11/+10. You also have Cleave. At 20th level, with a BAB of +18/+13/+8/+3, and using A Thousand Cuts, with Improved Critical (Scimitar), assuming you have Gloves of Dexterity +4, and have increased your Dex another +2 at 16th and 20th level. You also have at least one weapon at +3 and the other at +2, you would then look like this while Bard Singing Inspire Courage and Dervish Dancing, +29/+29/+28/+28/+24/+24/+23/+23/+19/+19/+18/+18/+14/+14, with Great Cleave. That's a whopping 14 attacks, each at (assuming at least a +2 STR bonus and a +2 INT bonus) 1d8+7 15-20/x2 crit range and 1d8+5 15-20/x2 and this isn't including any additional weapon abilities. With a 30% crit chance, and 16 attacks, you will probably crit at least 4 or 5 times in a round. Assuming you roll at least one "1" on the to hit rolls, you hit 13 times, and crit say 5 times, for an average of almost 200 damage in a round. Sure, you can only get this once a day... and otherwise you'd only do 7 attacks in a round... but wow. The average damage in this one round doesn't include any great cleave opportunities either. Alternatively, taking Rogue instead of Bard would reduce your to hit by 1 across the board because of no morale bonus for singing, but you'd get sneak attack damage to add to each of the 14 attacks above if you can A) flank folks everytime you move during the Dervish Dance, B) do it on the first round of combat when you go first and everyone else is flat footed, or C) (my favorite) use Improved Invisibility from your wizard friend, a ring, or some other method. 5 levels of rogue would add 3d6 sneak attack to every attack above, and assuming 13 hits, you'd average another 45 damage in this round. You could easily do over 250 damage in this single round.
The_Shaman 06-24-07, 03:15 PM	Ah yes, bard. Another option, although I would prefer it for the Snowflake Wardance maneuver detailed in Frostburn.
Tallow 06-24-07, 09:11 PM	Ah yes, bard. Another option, although I would prefer it for the Snowflake Wardance maneuver detailed in Frostburn. Just looked at that! Wow, add another +3 to hit while in Dervish Dance! That would just devastate a 500hp creature in a single round.
rex_subterrae1008 06-26-07, 10:31 AM	Dervish/Shadowdancer... Whirling Blades of Death that can Shadowjump... lol.
Father Dale 06-26-07, 05:32 PM	I've always been partial to twf-ing Scout/Ranger/Dervishes. Especially now with the feat for combining Scout and Ranger (Swift Hunter). Also, using the Ranger alternative class feature in Complete Champion would give you expertise at 4th level, which is a prereq for dervish. Thus, 4 levels of ranger would give 4 feats (inc. twf-ing and combat expertise), lots of skills, good fort/ref saves. Six levels would give another feat (imp twf-ing).
rex_subterrae1008 06-27-07, 10:00 AM	This may sound like a stupid question... But can a Dervish/Shadowdancer Shadowjump in the middle of a Dervish Dance? You know, start dancing around, slashing everything in sight, then just Shadowjump to another section of the battle and keep dancing? (I'm thinking of Nightcrawler from X-Men as the basis for this...)
The_Shaman 06-27-07, 10:15 AM	I think not, unless you could shadowjump as a swift ability. IIRC you are already taking a full-round action by the dance (full attack, essentially), so jumping would stop it for this round. It gets weird if you have shadow pounce, though (say from the shadowlord PrC). I would ask your DM to arbitrate that one.
Necroramo 06-27-07, 10:21 AM	Ta-da! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=629013)
Bukowski 06-27-07, 01:51 PM	Two-handed weapon dervishes would probably involve similar builds, but I would consider the barbarian (ideally with the regional feats that make them immune to fatigue; rage + PA + the bonus to attack provided by the dervish dance can be quite formidable) more suited than the ranger or swashbuckler. Of course, YMMV. The only problem with this is that rage and dervish dance cannot be used at the same time. Barb is still a decent class choice to lead up to dervish, and dervishes with a two-handed weapon + PA indeed do a lot of damage. I got a lot of mileage from the one dervish I made, human ftr/mon/shou disciple/dervish wielding a glaive. I'm pretty sure Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East) is 3.5, but I'm going off rusty memory here. Elusive Target tactical feat (CW) is always nice to pick up if you can spare it... both the prereqs and abilities granted by the feat synchronize nicely with dervish.
Karla 06-27-07, 05:40 PM	- Swordsage (ToB): free weapon focus, I checked this one with CustServ - according to them you get the effect of having Weapon Focus with the discipline weapons (i.e. +1 to hit) but you don't count as knowing the feat for the purposes of qualifying for PrC or feat chains. DMs are free to Houserule otherwise of course, but that was the ruling I got back.
rex_subterrae1008 06-29-07, 12:19 PM	This is probably another one of my stupid questions... But would a Dervish use a whip? I know it's nonlethal damage, but it would still look cool in the middle of a Dervish Dance... lol.
aikimiller 06-29-07, 01:49 PM	Well, the fastest entry I know of is fighter2/Swashbuckler3
The_Shaman 06-29-07, 05:57 PM	The only problem with this is that rage and dervish dance cannot be used at the same time. Barb is still a decent class choice to lead up to dervish, and dervishes with a two-handed weapon + PA indeed do a lot of damage. Weird, I thought that since they can use expertise, they should be able to go off on dervish dance. Well, considering that perform is a charisma-based ability, I guess you are right - but it can make for a nice houserule. I got a lot of mileage from the one dervish I made, human ftr/mon/shou disciple/dervish wielding a glaive. I'm pretty sure Shou Disciple (Unapproachable East) is 3.5, but I'm going off rusty memory here. A little grey, really... I've people call UEast 3.25. On one hand, you have the new skills, but it still talks about an "Unarmed BAB", which is 3.0 concept. Also notice that it talks about EWP: kukri, while the kukri is martial in 3.5 (that was actually reprinted in CDivine). But yeah, that build looks fun :) Elusive Target tactical feat (CW) is always nice to pick up if you can spare it... both the prereqs and abilities granted by the feat synchronize nicely with dervish. It is good, if you can get to it. While a dervish is not supposed to be hit, esp flanked, it allows you to set a heckofa trap for those tricky rogues.
Chimaera2000 06-29-07, 10:20 PM	Though Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 is the classic choice, I'm a big fan of Fighter 4/Warblade 1. It gives you Weapon Specialization (which means Melee Weapon Mastery from PHB II later on) along with the Blood in the Water Stance, which can improve your damage output considerably. You even get some 2nd-level maneuvers to sweeten the pot.
damudar 06-30-07, 12:28 AM	where can i find all of these prestige classes online?
The_Shaman 06-30-07, 03:30 AM	You can't, afaik. WotC needs some money, too :) . AFAIK the only free previews are in the compendia, but they are required to show no more than the first 2 levels or so.
damudar 06-30-07, 07:54 AM	Though Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 2 is the classic choice, I'm a big fan of Fighter 4/Warblade 1. It gives you Weapon Specialization (which means Melee Weapon Mastery from PHB II later on) along with the Blood in the Water Stance, which can improve your damage output considerably. You even get some 2nd-level maneuvers to sweeten the pot. what book is warblade in? and do you think this book would be at the library?
rex_subterrae1008 06-30-07, 09:21 AM	what book is warblade in? and do you think this book would be at the library? I don't which book it's in, but if it's at the library, it'd be at 793 in the nonfiction section...
Aminvelos 06-30-07, 11:36 AM	Welcome to Constace Race: Wood Elf Feats, Special abilities 1. Ranger Endurance, favored enemy, track, wild empathy 2. Fighter Combat Expertise 3. Fighter Dodge, Exotic (elven exotic weaponry, I forget the feat at the moment) 4. Sleeping Tiger Monk Weapon Finesse, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike 5. Sleeping Tiger Monk Improved Initiative, Evasion 6. Sleeping Tiger Monk Mounted Combat, Still Mind (+10 speed bonus) 7. Wild Runner Fast movement(+10 Speed bonus), trackless step 8. Wild Runner Primal Scream, Scent 9. Champion of Corellon Corellon’s blessing, bonus feat(Karmic Strike or Elusive Target), Mobility 10. CoC Elegant Strike 11 Ranger (two weapon fighting) 12. Sword Sage Quick to Act, Weapon focus, Shadow Blade 13. Dervish Dervish Dance, Movement mastery, slashing blades, +1 Ac bonus 14. Dervish Dervish Fast movement +5 15. Dervish Spring Attack, Dervish Dance 2/day, Acrobatic Strike 16. Dervish Dance of Death 17. Dervish Movement goes from +5 to +10, 3/day 18. Dervish Improved Reaction 19. Dervish Elaborate Parry, 4/day 20. Dervish Fast movement goes from +10 to +15 The wild runner scream will give you additional dex and strength, making a 10+ dex modifer at level 12 to be reached as ease. Also you'll be able to add your dex modifer x2 + str mod in damage by level 12.
The_Shaman 06-30-07, 03:07 PM	what book is warblade in? and do you think this book would be at the library? It is in Tome of Battle, and I do not expect it to be in the library. At least, unless the library in your town has recent D&D books... and I don't think I've seen many of those.