Post/Author/DateTime	Post
L_Voss 08-13-06, 07:48 AM	I know, silly question indeed, but one of my players keeps on asking me whether the paladin should be buried or cremated (in the original DnD system). He's demanding the answer. :rolleyes: So, could anyone answer me/him? I'd be grateful...
VonRichthofen 08-13-06, 08:20 AM	As far as I know you might feel absolutely free to tell him exactly what you like. Even in 1st Edition AD&D, the Paladin had no generally prescribed burrial rites. You might want to have him burried because of the medieval European knight's tradition he seems to stem from in first place, but that's only a thin connection. A faithful Paladin's soul will go to a lawful good aligned god's domain after his demise, leaving the body back on the prime. So there's no advantage in either way. Just do as you like to have it in your campaign. Flavour thing, alltogether.
Teydyn 08-13-06, 09:07 AM	Tell him that his body should be eaten by vile, evil creatures, so his goodness might affect them to leave their evil ways... *cough* That for "demanding" it :)
Verelor 08-13-06, 10:38 AM	How about burying the cremated ashes? (In a hallowed grave of course)
frasmage 08-13-06, 12:37 PM	hmmm, out of the choice of cremation or burial, seems to me most paladins would opt for ressurection :D
UmbralKnight 08-13-06, 12:56 PM	How about burying the cremated ashes? (In a hallowed grave of course) In a holy urn. With holy symbols engraved onto it. With strips of cloth with holy writings on inside with the ashes. And don't forget the holy symbol on the tombstone above the grave.
L_Voss 08-13-06, 03:46 PM	hmmm, out of the choice of cremation or burial, seems to me most paladins would opt for ressurection :D Our home-rules forbid ressurection (there must be some punishment for dying!) - after the character's death he would have to roll his new character class and race (using the DMG), and I'd allow resurrection only if the rolled character is the same class and race :P That makes the players at least care for their characters... The exception is, when they meet a high-leveled Cleric/Druid with the ressurection/reincarnate spell or have him/her in the party. My currently-dead paladin asked me the above question so we would know whether the Cleric should know the Ressurection (unless even the Ressurection can Ressurect from the ashes?), or True Ressurection spell and whether the druid could cast reincarnate on the ashes or would he need the whole body :P ... nevermind - I cremated him already (as a champion of Pelor, he should be cremated, don't you think? After all, Pelor's a sun god. :P) So one more question: can the reincarnate spell (druidic one) ressurect from the ashes, or the body has to be complete? (this is an important one, 'cause our party Druid has just learnt the Reincarnate (AFTER the paladin's cremation :P) and the paladin's player wants to reincarnate him as the NPC.)
Vestigial_Thumb 08-13-06, 03:59 PM	How about burying the cremated ashes? (In a hallowed grave of course) Or burying the Paladin with a bunch of flasks of Alchemist's Fire and detonating them when he's buried. Underground explosions rock! Our home-rules forbid ressurection (there must be some punishment for dying!) There is: You lose a level. If you're first level, you lose 2 points of Constitution. Plus, it's friggin' expensive to have yourself resurrected. So you'll have to be pretty high level for it even to be worth it to have yourself resurrected. In short, dying sucks. :P
Nephlite 08-13-06, 05:08 PM	I know, silly question indeed, but one of my players keeps on asking me whether the paladin should be buried or cremated (in the original DnD system). He's demanding the answer. :rolleyes: So, could anyone answer me/him? I'd be grateful... Buried: Can be turned into undead, can be ressurected or reincarnated. Cremated: Can't be turned into undead, can't be ressurected or reincarnated. Requires True resurrection. Depends on him.
Verelor 08-13-06, 05:10 PM	Actually, if he is cremated he can still be resurrected. It requires "some remnant of the original body", so most DMs would say that the ashes are sufficient.
JulesCARV 08-13-06, 05:14 PM	While it's a flavor thing, if he really MUST have an answer, I'd say that it depends on the world. Are there benevolent medical researchers who dissect bodies in an attempt to learn anatomy/physiology to make their healing spells more effective? If so, a paladin should donate his body to them. Are there necromancers who tend to dig up graves and animate the corpses to create shambling hordes of undead? If so, a paladin should have his body cremated. Are there both? Then he should donate them to the medical researchers to study for a while, then have it cremated afterwards. Is there a serious famine? Then I suppose he could have himself cooked after death to try to alleviate that problem at least a little bit. Unless volunteering to be cannibalized is evil in your world. If he lives in a world where there are benevolent medical researchers, a severe famine, and evil necromancers, then he could have his body preserved with Gentle Repose or the like, and then have the researchers dissect him, then have his still fresh body cooked and eaten by starving people, and then have his bones ground into to dust and ashes so that a necromancer couldn't use the skeleton.
Verelor 08-13-06, 05:28 PM	Is there a serious famine? Then I suppose he could have himself cooked after death to try to alleviate that problem at least a little bit. Unless volunteering to be cannibalized is evil in your world. I agree with most of what you are saying, but yikes! :eek:
frasmage 08-13-06, 07:44 PM	Are there benevolent medical researchers who dissect bodies in an attempt to learn anatomy/physiology to make their healing spells more effective? If so, a paladin should donate his body to them. Other than the fact that science generally disagrees with religion - And, if im not mistaken, Paladins are staunch worshippers. So lets nix that idea
Thane26425 08-13-06, 07:59 PM	There is a cleric spell somewhere, second edition though I'm pretty sure called something like Burial Blessing. It is a ceremony performed on corpse that prevents it from being able to be animated as undead. It cost a vial of Holy Water and 100XP from the caster. That XP penalty I always thought was rediculous, especially since the spell was 1st or 2nd level. In any case, a Paladin should merit at least that much in death. If the worry is also grave robbers, notable people were often buried inside the church either in vaults in the walls or a sepulcher underneith it. That should make it rather difficult for anyone to get to the body. For that matter, a Paladin would probably leave their best weapons and equipment to the church or whomever since those things would serve the cause of good more in the field than in their grave. A set of masterwork armor and weapons for ceremony though should be allowed if desired.
JulesCARV 08-13-06, 09:40 PM	Other than the fact that science generally disagrees with religion - And, if im not mistaken, Paladins are staunch worshippers. So lets nix that idea Real religions can be good, evil, neutral, lawful, or chaotic, or all at once. Paladins are always good and always lawful. Sometimes real religions force scientists to recant their findings, or murder women who refuse to wear burkas, or burn heretics at the stake, or demolish ancient statues of other religions, just as sometimes real religions provide shelter for the poor, prevent wars, bring an end to tyrannies, and preserve or advance learning. Paladins are usually religious, but only in good ways. If someone is religious but prone to emphasize evil religions or evil aspects of religions, then they do not become paladins. They might become clerics, though. A blackguard, evil cleric, or just plain staunchly religious member of a non-divine class (e.g., a staunchly devout sorcerer or whatever) might oppose good D&D proto-scientists who put cadavers to good use as being ungodly and whatnot. A paladin, however, would not. This is not to say that a paladin must donate his cadaver to good researchers if the oppurtunity arises. However, since L_Voss's player seems to want the decision made for him, I raised it as a possibility. Whether a paladin would donate his body or not, however, he would surely not blindly oppose good scientific researchers out of religious dogmatism, because that isn't good.
Vestigial_Thumb 08-13-06, 09:40 PM	Other than the fact that science generally disagrees with religion - And, if im not mistaken, Paladins are staunch worshippers. So lets nix that idea Let's not. Pelor's Clerics may support progress in the campaign.
Unholy_Sacrament 08-14-06, 02:24 AM	Like most people said there'd be some odd ritual or something to the burial. In most cases it'd depend on their diety as well as accomplishments. For example, the traveling Paladin who set free many small towns from tyrranical rule would probably be cremated and have his ashed spread across his most traveled, or his/her favorite road. A Paladin who went up the unscalable mountain, slew the chromatic dragon by beating him to death with a purple wurm (and who hasn't?), would probably be buried in a hallowed tomb of heros of course. Or The Paladin who did that and just wanted to do what was right would be just buried in a small town. A Paladin who is worried about being risen for evil would most definitely be cremated or bureid in a hallwoed grave. But for a definite quick answer, Heironymous Demands a full body. Pelor wants ashes. I'm the Dm, do as I say! Basically put, just make up soemthing.