Call for refix of Ninja in Complete Adventurer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Call for refix of Ninja in Complete Adventurer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SpydaMan_62
02-04-05, 09:42 PM There needs to be a refix for the ninja class in the complete adventurer book. The ninja seems like either a watered down rouge and ninja of the crestent moon (prestige class).
To be a ninja of the cresent moon you have to be approximately level 7. I'm pointing this out for further points in my arguement.
There are several things that I think should be changed with the ninja. First of all what makes me upset about it is that it does not get the fast sneak ability(which is given to the ninja of the cresent moon at lvl 5 so adjusted char lvl of 12), allowing him to hide and move silently at his full speed. It makes sense that a ninja who is specially trained in stealth should be able to do this faster than all other classes. Likewise he should be granted the Always sneaky ablilty (NoCM lvl 10 char lvl 17).
The ninja should also be granted the silencing attack ability (NoCM lvl 4 char lvl 11) This makes sense for a ninja becuase "ninjas came from clans of assassins...in feudal Japan"-Complete Adventurer pg 5. An assassin wouldn't want a victim shouting for help or alarming other people of a possible infiltration.
Evasion should be given to the ninja at a lower level (currently lvl 12 for the ninja, lvl 2 for rouge and monk). By the time the ninja is granted this ability it is almost worthless and is overpowered by several other ninja abilities (but those abilities are limited by the Ki Points).
The blindsight ability should also be granted (NoCM lvl 9 char lvl 16). A ninja is specially trained in fighting in darkness and this ability just seems to fit for the ninja.
Also there might be a reason for it but I feel that the ninja should be proficent with the katana, seeing as it seems to be the ninja's weapon of choice.
I'm not saying by all this that the Ninja should be ubberpowerful, but all I'm saying is that the class abilites should be better balanced. :fight!:
TheCarrionCrawler
02-04-05, 09:48 PM The ninja should also be granted the silencing attack ability (NoCM lvl 4 char lvl 11) This makes sense for a ninja becuase "ninjas came from clans of assassins...in feudal Japan"-Complete Adventurer pg 5. An assassin wouldn't want a victim shouting for help or alarming other people of a possible infiltration.

I hear the sound of the summoning of Mr. Heretic....speak of historical ninja, and he will arrive...
Mirikon
02-04-05, 10:38 PM Yes, I believe that is the wording of the Summon Heretic666 spell.

As for the ninja class itself. From what I've heard, the class is not based on the Ninja of the Crescent Moon. Rather, it is based on a Ninja core class that appeared in an edition of Dragon Magazine.
dknight100
02-04-05, 10:42 PM katana proficiency because its a ninja's weapon of choice? i always thought that they had a soft spot for that one thats named after them
isbavatar
02-04-05, 11:56 PM Yeah, the Katana is a Ninja's weapon of choice only if your Ninja's name happens to be Leonardo.
Ravos20
02-05-05, 12:11 AM ninjas had thier own variation of the short sword, or wakazashi. Ninja of the Crescent Moon was a damn broken class, and the CV version is alot more balanced. its just as good as rogue (if you house rule SS as SA), and has alot more flavor. i love it. NoCM should eat excrement and die.
Razz
02-05-05, 12:11 AM I agree wholeheartedly. The Ninja shoulds've had Fast Sneak and Always Sneaky, Evasion at a faster level (and even Improved Evasion later on, or using Ki Points for Improved Evasion ability), 1 ki point/level instead of 1 ki point per half class level, and a faster movement (progression similar to a monk's or maybe a ki usage ability, called Shadow Speed or something)
kyoki
02-05-05, 12:13 AM I would agree that the CV Ninja is a rather dissapointing class. It does indeed seem to be a handicapped rogue that can only be effective for one encounter per day by squandering all his Ki points.

I can't hold it against WotC too much though, as trying to create an offical ninja class is a thorny endeavor at best. Ninja, probably more so than any other class archetype, means very different things to different people. I have even heard many people use the word "ninja" as a synonym for "extreme". If you try to combine everyone's concept of a ninja you end up with a character who is better at fighting than a fighter, far sneakier than a rogue, faster and more athletic than a monk, and has a good selection of spells or psionic powers. It is impossible to please everyone who has any affection for the ninja concept without creating some unbalanced behemoth that would ruin the game for everyone (with the exception of some people...you know who you are)
Personally I just use the "ninjas are all multiclass characters" concept used in Oriental Adventures (both in first edition and 3.0); although I have nothing against the rokugan ninja class (although I loathe the rokugan setting...long live Kara-Tur)
That said, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting WotC to revise the CV ninja regardless of its sub-par abilities. It is nonetheless a functional class that would be suitably effective if used wisely.

On the subject of CV Ninja weapon proficencies, I would agree that the ninja's options do seem a bit odd. I was expecting to see 3.5 versions of at least some of the Oriental Adventures weapons in a book that had the Ninja class, and that would have allowed for some more logical choices in the weapon profiency area. I still wouldn't give ninjas katanas as an exotic weapon proficency though; but I would definately give it to them as a martial weapon proficency. Making katanas analogous (and even interchangable) to bastard swords (a bad idea) seems to have given people the false impression that a katana is a one-handed weapon when it is almost exclusively a two-handed sword.
heretic888
02-05-05, 08:52 AM Hrmmmm..... a few things:

1) Personally, I find the idea of dumping a bunch of prestige class abilities on a base class to be an intuitively bad concept (not to mention blatantly unoriginal and uncreative). Especially when its from a prestige class as powerful as the Ninja of the Crescent Moon.

2) Contrary to what is stated in Complete Adventurer, the historical ninja were not "clans of assassins" from feudal Japan. Outside of a failed pre-emptive strike against Oda Nobunaga, there is little evidence to indicate the ninja families of Iga and Koga were involved in assassinations. Rather, most of the individuals purported to have died from the ninja's hands (such as Ashikiga Yoshihaka and Uesugi Kenshin) seem to have met their end from things like pnemounia, bacterial infection, or heart strokes.

3) If you were going by history, then a katana would be far more commonplace among ninja than a ninja-to. The ninja-to, by the way, is particular to Togakure ryu. It is not a generic "ninja sword".

4) To the one who claimed the Ninja of the Crescent Moon is "broken", you should be aware there is an errata'd version of the class --- 3/4 BAB and only Reflex as a high save now.

5) If'n you want a ninja class with some actual thought put into, check out my sig. :P

Laterz.
Mad M.
02-05-05, 12:30 PM Yeah, the CV ninja...

Personally, I'd houserule it so that it got 1/Ki point/ level instead of 1/2, and maybe give it a slightly boosted movement rate. Easiest way to make it a little more fun and interesting without reworking the whole class, imo.
Electricall
02-05-05, 12:42 PM If you think 1 Ki point/level would be balanced, you're insane and beyond the help of any psychiatrist.
Hochi-min trail
02-05-05, 01:41 PM Although I'm not familiar with any of these classes (don't jump on me yet), the actual idea of giving all the abilities of a prestige class to a core class seems broken. In essense, this system will completely eliminate the need for the prestige class. If one was aiming to be a ninga of the crecent moon, he would simply go and become this revised ninga suggested. Furthemore, no one would want to be a monk cause all his greates powers will be gotten by the ninga.
All this is to say, that adding the ninga with all of the abilities suggested will completely brake the game mechanics and make two or three other classes useless (now you may jump on me).
Mad M.
02-05-05, 01:46 PM Oh? Because he could go invisible and sneak attack someone once per day, per level? Assuming they can't see invisible creatures to begin with, or have fortification armor, ect...

Using the Ghost step power doesn't even let him get off more than one sneak attack in a round, as he must break invisibility/eatherealness to attack.

Using one charge of ki power will allow you to:

1. Replicate the 2nd level invisibility spell, for one round/attack

2. Replicate the 2nd level Blur Spell, For one round.

3. Replicate the Ghost touch property, For one attack.

4. Replicate Eathereal Jaunt For one round. (Longer, if you spend two at a time for non-combat purposes.

5. Replicate the 4th level spell Displacement for one round.

Aside from blowing ki points, the Ninja is an inferior Rogue with a few flavor abilities. (Bonus to Jump Checks, poison use, ect)

Considering the Rogue has extra skill-points to invest in use magic device, replicating most of the ninja's abilities with a few wands or scrolls, no, that doesn't strike me as horribly overpowered. The Ninja can cast an assortment of low-level spells as a free action, at a severely reduced duration. God-like power it isn't.

I'm not demanding Wizards change the Ninja class. It's playable as is. I'm just saying, that if someone wanted to play one in my game, I'd probably spruce it up a little.

Edit: Just for the sake of clarity, Rogue vs Ninja. (Without Ki powers)

Rogue gets:

1. +2 Skill points per level. On Average, will have two more skills maxed out than the Ninja.

2. Sneak Attacks when flanking. Their is no denying that day in, day out, the Rogue is going to get in more sneak attacks than the ninja, especially since he'll have an easier time using full-attacks.

3. Uncanny Dodge. The Rogue almost never loses his Dex bonus to AC, and soon becomes almost immune to enemy sneak attacks when flanking.

4. Earlier, better, Evasion. The Rogue gets Evasion earlier, and follows up with the awesome improved evasion later on. Overall, less damage from dragon breath and evocations.

5. Armor Use. Light armor proff allows the Rogue to focus almost exclusively on Dex, and saves mucho money on armor compared to the the Ninja and his expensive Bracers of Armor. More money for wands!

6. His choice of high-level abilities like death-roll, slippery mind, ect.

The Ninja gets:

1. Poison Use. At high-levels, the Ninja can rapidly apply a one shot dose of poison.

2. Skill bonuses. the Ninja gets up to a +6 bonus to various movement skills.

3. Fast Climb.

4. Monk AC bonus. Useful on paper, but in reality, it means the Ninja has to invest heavily in Wisdom, and spend a lot more money raising his AC, making the Ninja less generally powerful than the Rogue. Upside is the ability to pump AC at extremely high-levels.

5. Ability to see Invisible/Eathereal creatures, at a very high level. This is ok, but it comes very late in their career, and is yet another ability to Ninja can duplicate with use magic device, if need be.

Am working off of memory, so I might be a little off.
glimeral
02-05-05, 02:54 PM The way I see ninja clans, few ninjas will be 20th level ninjas. Most will in fact be multi-class ninja/rogues or ninja/monks and when PrCs are factored in, you also have Ghost Faced Killer mixed in there.

Ninja's of the Crescent moon are not compatable with 3.5 rules any longer according to the official stance by the RPGA which clearly states that starting February, 3.0 material is no longer compatable with 3.5 material, so if you are going off the official stance which is used in a global campaign setting, you cannot use NotCMs any longer since they were not updated to 3.5.

In the case of the ninja clans, I can see the following multi-class combinations quite readily, and the place that members of these multi-class combinations take within the clan.

Ninjas and Ninja/Thief-Acrobats: While all ninjas within the clan are taught infiltration techniques, the single class ninja and the ninja/thief-acrobats are specialists in the art of infiltration, capable of entering almost any structure with ease and grace. Used as the clans eyes and ears, these characters often take on assassination missions where accessing their mark requires subterfuge and heavy infiltration.

Ninja/Monk: Ninja/Monks are specialists in the arts of Ninjitsu, the martial arts form of the Ninja. Taking feats like EWP: Katana, Greater Two Weapon Fighting and Oversize TWF, the ninja/monk specializes in close combat techniques against their foe, these ninjas are masters of combining fist, shuriken and sword into a deadly storm of blows. The grand masters of ninjitsu are the ninja/monk/tempests (nin5/mnk11/tmpst 4).

Ninja/Monk/Rogue: Trained in infiltration, ninjitsu and assassination techniques in relatively equal measure, the ninja/monk/rogue is the most versatile member of the ninja clans, capable of assisting in a wide variety of missions for their guild. Due to their versatility, ninja/monk/rogues often spend a great deal of time in the field, being ferried missions by carrier pigeon or the mouths of more stealthy ninjas.

Assassins for the order: Within the clans of the ninja are numerous ninja trained in various forms of assassination techniques, each geared towards a specific type of foe. Within the ranks of the ninja assassins we find the Ninja/Rogue, Ninja/Assassin, Ninja/Ghost Faced Killer, Ninja/Rogue/Assassin, Ninja/Rogue/Ghost Faced Killer and Ninja/Assassin/Ghost Faced Killer, all of which are skilled in DIFFERENT methods of assassination and to different degrees of skill and specialization.
heretic888
02-07-05, 11:10 AM Although I'm not familiar with any of these classes (don't jump on me yet), the actual idea of giving all the abilities of a prestige class to a core class seems broken. In essense, this system will completely eliminate the need for the prestige class. If one was aiming to be a ninga of the crecent moon, he would simply go and become this revised ninga suggested. Furthemore, no one would want to be a monk cause all his greates powers will be gotten by the ninga.
All this is to say, that adding the ninga with all of the abilities suggested will completely brake the game mechanics and make two or three other classes useless (now you may jump on me).

I agree completely. ;)
heretic888
02-07-05, 11:20 AM Ninja's of the Crescent moon are not compatable with 3.5 rules any longer according to the official stance by the RPGA which clearly states that starting February, 3.0 material is no longer compatable with 3.5 material, so if you are going off the official stance which is used in a global campaign setting, you cannot use NotCMs any longer since they were not updated to 3.5.

Actually, you can use whatever your DM allows into the campaign --- regardless of what some website does or does not proclaim. The actual "official" stance of WotC is that all published material are tools for the players and DMs to use, reject, or modify as they see fit, not strict laws or rules that they must straightjacket their games by.

the arts of Ninjitsu, the martial arts form of the Ninja

This is a little off-note here, but...

The proper transliteration is 'ninjutsu', and it has nothing at all to do with 'martial arts'.
Rulebook
02-07-05, 01:53 PM when dealing with ninja, i like to refrence a different book entirely for my basic concept on the ninja clan idea. Its not even a WotC book, its a White-Wolf book, Dragons of the East it has a ninja group in it called the Go Kamisori Gama. I know they're not historicaly accurate by any means, but they're just neat.

they show the ninja as more than assassins, they're just a bunch of sneaky bastards, who do a variety of tasks for you, as long as you can pay thier extortionary prices. You can arrange anything from assassination to home gardening, and while expensive, will it will be conducted with the utmost discretion. wonderful stuff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpydaMan_62 02-04-05, 09:42 PM	There needs to be a refix for the ninja class in the complete adventurer book. The ninja seems like either a watered down rouge and ninja of the crestent moon (prestige class). To be a ninja of the cresent moon you have to be approximately level 7. I'm pointing this out for further points in my arguement. There are several things that I think should be changed with the ninja. First of all what makes me upset about it is that it does not get the fast sneak ability(which is given to the ninja of the cresent moon at lvl 5 so adjusted char lvl of 12), allowing him to hide and move silently at his full speed. It makes sense that a ninja who is specially trained in stealth should be able to do this faster than all other classes. Likewise he should be granted the Always sneaky ablilty (NoCM lvl 10 char lvl 17). The ninja should also be granted the silencing attack ability (NoCM lvl 4 char lvl 11) This makes sense for a ninja becuase "ninjas came from clans of assassins...in feudal Japan"-Complete Adventurer pg 5. An assassin wouldn't want a victim shouting for help or alarming other people of a possible infiltration. Evasion should be given to the ninja at a lower level (currently lvl 12 for the ninja, lvl 2 for rouge and monk). By the time the ninja is granted this ability it is almost worthless and is overpowered by several other ninja abilities (but those abilities are limited by the Ki Points). The blindsight ability should also be granted (NoCM lvl 9 char lvl 16). A ninja is specially trained in fighting in darkness and this ability just seems to fit for the ninja. Also there might be a reason for it but I feel that the ninja should be proficent with the katana, seeing as it seems to be the ninja's weapon of choice. I'm not saying by all this that the Ninja should be ubberpowerful, but all I'm saying is that the class abilites should be better balanced. :fight!:
TheCarrionCrawler 02-04-05, 09:48 PM	The ninja should also be granted the silencing attack ability (NoCM lvl 4 char lvl 11) This makes sense for a ninja becuase "ninjas came from clans of assassins...in feudal Japan"-Complete Adventurer pg 5. An assassin wouldn't want a victim shouting for help or alarming other people of a possible infiltration. I hear the sound of the summoning of Mr. Heretic....speak of historical ninja, and he will arrive...
Mirikon 02-04-05, 10:38 PM	Yes, I believe that is the wording of the Summon Heretic666 spell. As for the ninja class itself. From what I've heard, the class is not based on the Ninja of the Crescent Moon. Rather, it is based on a Ninja core class that appeared in an edition of Dragon Magazine.
dknight100 02-04-05, 10:42 PM	katana proficiency because its a ninja's weapon of choice? i always thought that they had a soft spot for that one thats named after them
isbavatar 02-04-05, 11:56 PM	Yeah, the Katana is a Ninja's weapon of choice only if your Ninja's name happens to be Leonardo.
Ravos20 02-05-05, 12:11 AM	ninjas had thier own variation of the short sword, or wakazashi. Ninja of the Crescent Moon was a damn broken class, and the CV version is alot more balanced. its just as good as rogue (if you house rule SS as SA), and has alot more flavor. i love it. NoCM should eat excrement and die.
Razz 02-05-05, 12:11 AM	I agree wholeheartedly. The Ninja shoulds've had Fast Sneak and Always Sneaky, Evasion at a faster level (and even Improved Evasion later on, or using Ki Points for Improved Evasion ability), 1 ki point/level instead of 1 ki point per half class level, and a faster movement (progression similar to a monk's or maybe a ki usage ability, called Shadow Speed or something)
kyoki 02-05-05, 12:13 AM	I would agree that the CV Ninja is a rather dissapointing class. It does indeed seem to be a handicapped rogue that can only be effective for one encounter per day by squandering all his Ki points. I can't hold it against WotC too much though, as trying to create an offical ninja class is a thorny endeavor at best. Ninja, probably more so than any other class archetype, means very different things to different people. I have even heard many people use the word "ninja" as a synonym for "extreme". If you try to combine everyone's concept of a ninja you end up with a character who is better at fighting than a fighter, far sneakier than a rogue, faster and more athletic than a monk, and has a good selection of spells or psionic powers. It is impossible to please everyone who has any affection for the ninja concept without creating some unbalanced behemoth that would ruin the game for everyone (with the exception of some people...you know who you are) Personally I just use the "ninjas are all multiclass characters" concept used in Oriental Adventures (both in first edition and 3.0); although I have nothing against the rokugan ninja class (although I loathe the rokugan setting...long live Kara-Tur) That said, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting WotC to revise the CV ninja regardless of its sub-par abilities. It is nonetheless a functional class that would be suitably effective if used wisely. On the subject of CV Ninja weapon proficencies, I would agree that the ninja's options do seem a bit odd. I was expecting to see 3.5 versions of at least some of the Oriental Adventures weapons in a book that had the Ninja class, and that would have allowed for some more logical choices in the weapon profiency area. I still wouldn't give ninjas katanas as an exotic weapon proficency though; but I would definately give it to them as a martial weapon proficency. Making katanas analogous (and even interchangable) to bastard swords (a bad idea) seems to have given people the false impression that a katana is a one-handed weapon when it is almost exclusively a two-handed sword.
heretic888 02-05-05, 08:52 AM	Hrmmmm..... a few things: 1) Personally, I find the idea of dumping a bunch of prestige class abilities on a base class to be an intuitively bad concept (not to mention blatantly unoriginal and uncreative). Especially when its from a prestige class as powerful as the Ninja of the Crescent Moon. 2) Contrary to what is stated in Complete Adventurer, the historical ninja were not "clans of assassins" from feudal Japan. Outside of a failed pre-emptive strike against Oda Nobunaga, there is little evidence to indicate the ninja families of Iga and Koga were involved in assassinations. Rather, most of the individuals purported to have died from the ninja's hands (such as Ashikiga Yoshihaka and Uesugi Kenshin) seem to have met their end from things like pnemounia, bacterial infection, or heart strokes. 3) If you were going by history, then a katana would be far more commonplace among ninja than a ninja-to. The ninja-to, by the way, is particular to Togakure ryu. It is not a generic "ninja sword". 4) To the one who claimed the Ninja of the Crescent Moon is "broken", you should be aware there is an errata'd version of the class --- 3/4 BAB and only Reflex as a high save now. 5) If'n you want a ninja class with some actual thought put into, check out my sig. :P Laterz.
Mad M. 02-05-05, 12:30 PM	Yeah, the CV ninja... Personally, I'd houserule it so that it got 1/Ki point/ level instead of 1/2, and maybe give it a slightly boosted movement rate. Easiest way to make it a little more fun and interesting without reworking the whole class, imo.
Electricall 02-05-05, 12:42 PM	If you think 1 Ki point/level would be balanced, you're insane and beyond the help of any psychiatrist.
Hochi-min trail 02-05-05, 01:41 PM	Although I'm not familiar with any of these classes (don't jump on me yet), the actual idea of giving all the abilities of a prestige class to a core class seems broken. In essense, this system will completely eliminate the need for the prestige class. If one was aiming to be a ninga of the crecent moon, he would simply go and become this revised ninga suggested. Furthemore, no one would want to be a monk cause all his greates powers will be gotten by the ninga. All this is to say, that adding the ninga with all of the abilities suggested will completely brake the game mechanics and make two or three other classes useless (now you may jump on me).
Mad M. 02-05-05, 01:46 PM	Oh? Because he could go invisible and sneak attack someone once per day, per level? Assuming they can't see invisible creatures to begin with, or have fortification armor, ect... Using the Ghost step power doesn't even let him get off more than one sneak attack in a round, as he must break invisibility/eatherealness to attack. Using one charge of ki power will allow you to: 1. Replicate the 2nd level invisibility spell, for one round/attack 2. Replicate the 2nd level Blur Spell, For one round. 3. Replicate the Ghost touch property, For one attack. 4. Replicate Eathereal Jaunt For one round. (Longer, if you spend two at a time for non-combat purposes. 5. Replicate the 4th level spell Displacement for one round. Aside from blowing ki points, the Ninja is an inferior Rogue with a few flavor abilities. (Bonus to Jump Checks, poison use, ect) Considering the Rogue has extra skill-points to invest in use magic device, replicating most of the ninja's abilities with a few wands or scrolls, no, that doesn't strike me as horribly overpowered. The Ninja can cast an assortment of low-level spells as a free action, at a severely reduced duration. God-like power it isn't. I'm not demanding Wizards change the Ninja class. It's playable as is. I'm just saying, that if someone wanted to play one in my game, I'd probably spruce it up a little. Edit: Just for the sake of clarity, Rogue vs Ninja. (Without Ki powers) Rogue gets: 1. +2 Skill points per level. On Average, will have two more skills maxed out than the Ninja. 2. Sneak Attacks when flanking. Their is no denying that day in, day out, the Rogue is going to get in more sneak attacks than the ninja, especially since he'll have an easier time using full-attacks. 3. Uncanny Dodge. The Rogue almost never loses his Dex bonus to AC, and soon becomes almost immune to enemy sneak attacks when flanking. 4. Earlier, better, Evasion. The Rogue gets Evasion earlier, and follows up with the awesome improved evasion later on. Overall, less damage from dragon breath and evocations. 5. Armor Use. Light armor proff allows the Rogue to focus almost exclusively on Dex, and saves mucho money on armor compared to the the Ninja and his expensive Bracers of Armor. More money for wands! 6. His choice of high-level abilities like death-roll, slippery mind, ect. The Ninja gets: 1. Poison Use. At high-levels, the Ninja can rapidly apply a one shot dose of poison. 2. Skill bonuses. the Ninja gets up to a +6 bonus to various movement skills. 3. Fast Climb. 4. Monk AC bonus. Useful on paper, but in reality, it means the Ninja has to invest heavily in Wisdom, and spend a lot more money raising his AC, making the Ninja less generally powerful than the Rogue. Upside is the ability to pump AC at extremely high-levels. 5. Ability to see Invisible/Eathereal creatures, at a very high level. This is ok, but it comes very late in their career, and is yet another ability to Ninja can duplicate with use magic device, if need be. Am working off of memory, so I might be a little off.
glimeral 02-05-05, 02:54 PM	The way I see ninja clans, few ninjas will be 20th level ninjas. Most will in fact be multi-class ninja/rogues or ninja/monks and when PrCs are factored in, you also have Ghost Faced Killer mixed in there. Ninja's of the Crescent moon are not compatable with 3.5 rules any longer according to the official stance by the RPGA which clearly states that starting February, 3.0 material is no longer compatable with 3.5 material, so if you are going off the official stance which is used in a global campaign setting, you cannot use NotCMs any longer since they were not updated to 3.5. In the case of the ninja clans, I can see the following multi-class combinations quite readily, and the place that members of these multi-class combinations take within the clan. Ninjas and Ninja/Thief-Acrobats: While all ninjas within the clan are taught infiltration techniques, the single class ninja and the ninja/thief-acrobats are specialists in the art of infiltration, capable of entering almost any structure with ease and grace. Used as the clans eyes and ears, these characters often take on assassination missions where accessing their mark requires subterfuge and heavy infiltration. Ninja/Monk: Ninja/Monks are specialists in the arts of Ninjitsu, the martial arts form of the Ninja. Taking feats like EWP: Katana, Greater Two Weapon Fighting and Oversize TWF, the ninja/monk specializes in close combat techniques against their foe, these ninjas are masters of combining fist, shuriken and sword into a deadly storm of blows. The grand masters of ninjitsu are the ninja/monk/tempests (nin5/mnk11/tmpst 4). Ninja/Monk/Rogue: Trained in infiltration, ninjitsu and assassination techniques in relatively equal measure, the ninja/monk/rogue is the most versatile member of the ninja clans, capable of assisting in a wide variety of missions for their guild. Due to their versatility, ninja/monk/rogues often spend a great deal of time in the field, being ferried missions by carrier pigeon or the mouths of more stealthy ninjas. Assassins for the order: Within the clans of the ninja are numerous ninja trained in various forms of assassination techniques, each geared towards a specific type of foe. Within the ranks of the ninja assassins we find the Ninja/Rogue, Ninja/Assassin, Ninja/Ghost Faced Killer, Ninja/Rogue/Assassin, Ninja/Rogue/Ghost Faced Killer and Ninja/Assassin/Ghost Faced Killer, all of which are skilled in DIFFERENT methods of assassination and to different degrees of skill and specialization.
heretic888 02-07-05, 11:10 AM	Although I'm not familiar with any of these classes (don't jump on me yet), the actual idea of giving all the abilities of a prestige class to a core class seems broken. In essense, this system will completely eliminate the need for the prestige class. If one was aiming to be a ninga of the crecent moon, he would simply go and become this revised ninga suggested. Furthemore, no one would want to be a monk cause all his greates powers will be gotten by the ninga. All this is to say, that adding the ninga with all of the abilities suggested will completely brake the game mechanics and make two or three other classes useless (now you may jump on me). I agree completely. ;)
heretic888 02-07-05, 11:20 AM	Ninja's of the Crescent moon are not compatable with 3.5 rules any longer according to the official stance by the RPGA which clearly states that starting February, 3.0 material is no longer compatable with 3.5 material, so if you are going off the official stance which is used in a global campaign setting, you cannot use NotCMs any longer since they were not updated to 3.5. Actually, you can use whatever your DM allows into the campaign --- regardless of what some website does or does not proclaim. The actual "official" stance of WotC is that all published material are tools for the players and DMs to use, reject, or modify as they see fit, not strict laws or rules that they must straightjacket their games by. the arts of Ninjitsu, the martial arts form of the Ninja This is a little off-note here, but... The proper transliteration is 'ninjutsu', and it has nothing at all to do with 'martial arts'.
Rulebook 02-07-05, 01:53 PM	when dealing with ninja, i like to refrence a different book entirely for my basic concept on the ninja clan idea. Its not even a WotC book, its a White-Wolf book, Dragons of the East it has a ninja group in it called the Go Kamisori Gama. I know they're not historicaly accurate by any means, but they're just neat. they show the ninja as more than assassins, they're just a bunch of sneaky bastards, who do a variety of tasks for you, as long as you can pay thier extortionary prices. You can arrange anything from assassination to home gardening, and while expensive, will it will be conducted with the utmost discretion. wonderful stuff.