Can a Bard be a party's only Arcane Caster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a Bard be a party's only Arcane Caster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheOutlier
06-10-07, 02:03 AM I play the Bard in a party with a Druid, Ranger, Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, bumbling Thief, and Dragon Adept. We are all low levels and the players don't always show up to every session; we usually get 5 out of the 7 above. This is my first session since some 2nd edition campaigns 12 years ago and I have never played a caster. Our Sorcerer was knocked off in the first session and did not come back (the player went with the dragon).

I like the versatility of the Bard and am planning on going for the Lyric/Sublime PrCs to supplement my spells.

What counsel can you give me as a first time arcane player with a class/group that has limited arcane power?
Arkeas
06-10-07, 02:40 AM I am running a group like this right now. The main problems that come up are those that you would expect. My group's main problem is identifying magic items on the go, which you can probably deal with (got ranks in spellcraft?). You may have problems with opponents with damage reduction, because only magic can be guaranteed to get past that. If your offensive line is good, you can probably deal with it. Oh, and always have a torch ready to fight off swarms (some are immune to weapon damage, and will start to irritate you).:D

Most of the time it is not hard to deal with no caster, it just makes some things a little more irritating. Good luck!
skywyze
06-10-07, 02:52 AM In our group, we always used to cover "the bases" like you do. We'd always have a healer, an arcane caster, a tank and a skill monkey, and we were convinced that without all those covered, we'd all die horribly. But over the last 5 or so sessions, we've shed all preconceptions of need. Our healer died and instead of making another, the player made a telepath for social encounters. Then the arcane caster died and instead of making another arcane caster, the player just made a beat-stick. The telepath eventually died and now we're a gruop of 4 beat-sticks: A warblade, a fighter/barbarian, a rogue and a straight fighter. And we've been doing perfectly fine. In fact, I think we're having a lot more fun now, because everyone's playing what THEY think is fun. And if our characters have to stay at inns for weeks on end to heal up because we have no healers and want to save money, all the better for plot hooks and whatnot. It adds some nitty gritty realism to the game.

My suggestion would definitely be to shed your preconceptions on what you "should" play or what the party "needs." Because no matter what you encounter, clever players and team work can get you past it.

That being said, all bards should go into Sublime Chord at the first possible opportunity. It's an incredibly powerful PrC while staying true to the "feel" of the bard.

Good luck with your decision though! I'd be interested to hear how it works out.
Generic Poster
06-10-07, 03:04 AM with your party setup you'll be find without your sorceror, a little weak in heavy artillery department, but more then making up for it in other areas.

Just remember that your not a front line fighter and you don't do significant damage with your spells. What you do well is control the battlefield, weaken opponents and turn them against each other, while at the same buffing and healing your own party to make them unstoppable killing machines. Your also the parties face man and can often keep the party from fighting altogether, as well as knowing obscure lore and arcane knowledge (especially without another arcane caster). If all else fails, you always have use magic device skill coupled with a high charisma means you should eventually be able to use anything you can get your hands on.

Anyway, just remember that splat books are your friends in terms of finding options for your bard, especially the complete adventurer. You'll probably want to spend a couple of feats so you have some sort of combat option for when you need to save your spells, precise shot can work, or disarm with your whip proficiency and bladeweave. Although it's not flashy, getting your inspire courage up is always worthwhile when you consider how much the damage the song gives adds up while freeing you to do other things as well. Even with all your healers in the party, getting a Cure light or cure moderate spell isn't a bad idea for emergencies, getting more then one cure spell is overkill.

Alter self I find is one of the most useful 2nd level spells out there. Turn into a troglodyte for the huge natural armor, or turn into one of your opponents race and use trickery to setup an ambush, the possibilities are nearly endless.

Anyway, while most of my games I've been in have mostly been < level 10, the party has always been happy when I've backed them up with a bard. Odd thing is that I can't get anyone else to play a bard, even though they are more fun then playing a cleric for example.
TheOutlier
06-10-07, 01:04 PM Thanks, excellent. The bard has been great in 80% of our encounters... where we just talk smack.
Mirikon
06-10-07, 01:09 PM In the low levels, a Bard's boosting ability, as well as his marginally better combat potential compared to a wizard, makes him a boon to the party. Past that, the bard needs to have a helluvalot of items to make up for the raw power that a wizard or sorcerer has at their disposal.
Jaxgaret
06-10-07, 01:11 PM Thanks, excellent. The bard has been great in 80% of our encounters... where we just talk smack.

I loves me my CG Bard who is always goading the Lawful bad guys into fights that they don't want to get into :)

I like the versatility of the Bard and am planning on going for the Lyric/Sublime PrCs to supplement my spells.

That is definitely a solid plan, the Bard who goes into Lyric Thaumaturge and Sublime Chord is good to go from level 1-20.

I love Bards. I found that over the years the plurality of characters I have played have been Bards, followed closely by Clerics :)
The_Shaman
06-10-07, 02:19 PM I think you'll do well. The druid can work as a blaster in a pinch (maybe with the shaman), and you have quite a few characters, too. I think the more characters there are, the more useful a bard's mojo is.

If you want to go SChord, I suggest using another PrC that boosts arcane casting, such as virtuoso. If you take the first level of virtuoso before you go into Sublime, you won't need to lose a casting level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheOutlier 06-10-07, 02:03 AM	I play the Bard in a party with a Druid, Ranger, Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, bumbling Thief, and Dragon Adept. We are all low levels and the players don't always show up to every session; we usually get 5 out of the 7 above. This is my first session since some 2nd edition campaigns 12 years ago and I have never played a caster. Our Sorcerer was knocked off in the first session and did not come back (the player went with the dragon). I like the versatility of the Bard and am planning on going for the Lyric/Sublime PrCs to supplement my spells. What counsel can you give me as a first time arcane player with a class/group that has limited arcane power?
Arkeas 06-10-07, 02:40 AM	I am running a group like this right now. The main problems that come up are those that you would expect. My group's main problem is identifying magic items on the go, which you can probably deal with (got ranks in spellcraft?). You may have problems with opponents with damage reduction, because only magic can be guaranteed to get past that. If your offensive line is good, you can probably deal with it. Oh, and always have a torch ready to fight off swarms (some are immune to weapon damage, and will start to irritate you).:D Most of the time it is not hard to deal with no caster, it just makes some things a little more irritating. Good luck!
skywyze 06-10-07, 02:52 AM	In our group, we always used to cover "the bases" like you do. We'd always have a healer, an arcane caster, a tank and a skill monkey, and we were convinced that without all those covered, we'd all die horribly. But over the last 5 or so sessions, we've shed all preconceptions of need. Our healer died and instead of making another, the player made a telepath for social encounters. Then the arcane caster died and instead of making another arcane caster, the player just made a beat-stick. The telepath eventually died and now we're a gruop of 4 beat-sticks: A warblade, a fighter/barbarian, a rogue and a straight fighter. And we've been doing perfectly fine. In fact, I think we're having a lot more fun now, because everyone's playing what THEY think is fun. And if our characters have to stay at inns for weeks on end to heal up because we have no healers and want to save money, all the better for plot hooks and whatnot. It adds some nitty gritty realism to the game. My suggestion would definitely be to shed your preconceptions on what you "should" play or what the party "needs." Because no matter what you encounter, clever players and team work can get you past it. That being said, all bards should go into Sublime Chord at the first possible opportunity. It's an incredibly powerful PrC while staying true to the "feel" of the bard. Good luck with your decision though! I'd be interested to hear how it works out.
Generic Poster 06-10-07, 03:04 AM	with your party setup you'll be find without your sorceror, a little weak in heavy artillery department, but more then making up for it in other areas. Just remember that your not a front line fighter and you don't do significant damage with your spells. What you do well is control the battlefield, weaken opponents and turn them against each other, while at the same buffing and healing your own party to make them unstoppable killing machines. Your also the parties face man and can often keep the party from fighting altogether, as well as knowing obscure lore and arcane knowledge (especially without another arcane caster). If all else fails, you always have use magic device skill coupled with a high charisma means you should eventually be able to use anything you can get your hands on. Anyway, just remember that splat books are your friends in terms of finding options for your bard, especially the complete adventurer. You'll probably want to spend a couple of feats so you have some sort of combat option for when you need to save your spells, precise shot can work, or disarm with your whip proficiency and bladeweave. Although it's not flashy, getting your inspire courage up is always worthwhile when you consider how much the damage the song gives adds up while freeing you to do other things as well. Even with all your healers in the party, getting a Cure light or cure moderate spell isn't a bad idea for emergencies, getting more then one cure spell is overkill. Alter self I find is one of the most useful 2nd level spells out there. Turn into a troglodyte for the huge natural armor, or turn into one of your opponents race and use trickery to setup an ambush, the possibilities are nearly endless. Anyway, while most of my games I've been in have mostly been < level 10, the party has always been happy when I've backed them up with a bard. Odd thing is that I can't get anyone else to play a bard, even though they are more fun then playing a cleric for example.
TheOutlier 06-10-07, 01:04 PM	Thanks, excellent. The bard has been great in 80% of our encounters... where we just talk smack.
Mirikon 06-10-07, 01:09 PM	In the low levels, a Bard's boosting ability, as well as his marginally better combat potential compared to a wizard, makes him a boon to the party. Past that, the bard needs to have a helluvalot of items to make up for the raw power that a wizard or sorcerer has at their disposal.
Jaxgaret 06-10-07, 01:11 PM	Thanks, excellent. The bard has been great in 80% of our encounters... where we just talk smack. I loves me my CG Bard who is always goading the Lawful bad guys into fights that they don't want to get into :) I like the versatility of the Bard and am planning on going for the Lyric/Sublime PrCs to supplement my spells. That is definitely a solid plan, the Bard who goes into Lyric Thaumaturge and Sublime Chord is good to go from level 1-20. I love Bards. I found that over the years the plurality of characters I have played have been Bards, followed closely by Clerics :)
The_Shaman 06-10-07, 02:19 PM	I think you'll do well. The druid can work as a blaster in a pinch (maybe with the shaman), and you have quite a few characters, too. I think the more characters there are, the more useful a bard's mojo is. If you want to go SChord, I suggest using another PrC that boosts arcane casting, such as virtuoso. If you take the first level of virtuoso before you go into Sublime, you won't need to lose a casting level.