Post/Author/DateTime	Post
T-REX 04-06-04, 05:01 PM	What if I make a troglodyte monk. Would he have 3 unarmed strikes at lvl. 1 (4 with flurry)? And would he deal d10 + full str. bonus pr. attack at 8th lvl? T-rex
SilenceHC 04-06-04, 06:38 PM	Originally posted by T-REX What if I make a troglodyte monk. Would he have 3 unarmed strikes at lvl. 1 (4 with flurry)? And would he deal d10 + full str. bonus pr. attack at 8th lvl? T-rex No. Natural attacks != unarmed attacks. They are not interchangeable.
hecate 04-06-04, 06:50 PM	Originally posted by T-REX What if I make a troglodyte monk. Would he have 3 unarmed strikes at lvl. 1 (4 with flurry)? And would he deal d10 + full str. bonus pr. attack at 8th lvl? T-rex You could elect to either inflict damage as a 1st level medium-sized monk (d6), or as a troglodyte (2 claws for d4 and 1 bite for d4). The flurry of blows would grant you only 1 additional attack with the monk base (-2 to attack rolls and d6 damage + full strength to both attacks). The descriptive text under the Monk listing (p 40-41, PHB v3.5) states that you can only perform a monk's flurry with unarmed strikes or with the specified weapons. The natural attacks of a troglodyte are not the same as the trained strikes of a monk. That said, (as a house rule) I see no reason why you could not apply the flurry to the trog's natural attcaks (giving him an extra claw attack at -2 to all attacks); however, the natural damage output of a trog is not the same as the trained damage output of a monk. Therefore, he would be stuck at d4 damage for claw attacks and d4 damage for bite attacks. (You may want to allow him, or see if your DM will allow him, to take a feat that allows him to employ his natural weapons as part of his attack). Also, note that the natural attacks do not allow for more than 3 attacks regardless of base attack. This is noted and explained in the end section of the Monster Manual (v3.5).
Thorak 04-06-04, 08:41 PM	I'd certainly rule that a monk's natural weapons count as 'monk weapons' in regards to whether they can be Flurried with. But they deal their normal damage; as mentioned, unarmed strikes are what get boosted damage, and they are not the same as natural weapons. A 20th level troglodyte monk who claws someone deals 1d4 damage with it, not 2d10.
SuperThread 04-06-04, 09:13 PM	Unarmed strikes are always natural weapons, but natural weapons are not always unarmed strikes. There are two major differences: unarmed strikes are the only kind of natural weapon that can be iterated (unless you take Rapidstrike), and all creatures possess an unarmed strike. Also, you can use weapons and natural weapons in the same attack sequence, provided that you aren't using the body part that you make the natural attack with (that is, if you are using a greatsword, you could make a bite attack in the same sequence but not a claw attack; and if you were using a longsword, you could make a bite attack and one claw attack). Since unarmed strikes can come from anywhere, however, you can take all of your unarmed strikes and natural attacks at once. This means that your first level Troglodyte monk gets four attacks (five with flurry): • 1 Bite • 2 Claws • 1 Unarmed Strike (2 With Flurry)