Can a Sorcerer know every spell? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a Sorcerer know every spell? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kerish Blackmoor
08-04-04, 01:45 AM My D&D group and I have been discussing whether or not you could have the ultimate arcane spellcaster because we couldn't find the right details in the player's handbook. Here's the situation, if you had a 19th level sorcerer and for his 20th level he took a level in wizard, and with his massive wealth got a spellbook with every spell in it. technically he would "know" every spell and the players handbook says "sorcerers cast any spell they know without preparation." Or would you say that he would just be able to prepare a few extra first level spells and spontaneously cast the rest.
BlaineTog
08-04-04, 01:55 AM His "Spells Known" are the spells he knows as a sorcerer, not those he gains from other classes.

In short, no.
Mitchell
08-04-04, 02:10 AM Wizards and sorcerors don't cast the same. Spells you may know as a wizard are spells that you know how to prepare and cast... Spells known as a sorceror are spells that you know how to cast without preparation, which is different.
As BlaineTog said, sorcerors are limited to the amount of spells on the "spells known" table.
Jaerom Darkwind
08-04-04, 11:54 AM Well, as they've said, no, your idea won't work. The only way to increase your sorcerer spells known is through the non-epic Extra Spell feat and the epic Spell Knoweldge feat. Neither of these will bring you anywhere close to knowing all of the arcane spells in print (which probably number in the thousands by now).

If you want ideas for the ultimate arcane spellcaster, look at two of the NPCs in my sig. Alassra Silverhand is a sor/wiz combo and very good at what she does (she uses a custom PrC that really makes that combo viable). Larloch the Shadow King, on the other hand, is an Incantatar, and his powers of metamagic are second only to those of the gods themselves. He can do pretty much anything you can think of with a spell.

If you want the best build for an ultimate arcane spellcaster, I'd say you should focus on metamagic. Use Sorcerer as a base (wizards learn more spells but get far less milage out of them, and have far less time to experiment with thie possibilities). Choose the most versatile spells you can find (multiple use spells are important, and you'll also need some solid damage-dealing spells that you can manipulate, like the classic fireball). Go for Incantatrix, where you'll learn all sorts of crazy metamagic abilities, and improve your ability to use the feats you've got (I'd recommend you get a lot of them). Finish up Incantatrix and go Archmage, snagging arcane fire, arcane reach, mastery of elements, mastery of shaping, and either mastery of counterspelling of arcane reach again. (If you do go mastery of counterspelling, make sure you've got Improved Counterspell to make it worth your while). Once you hit Epic, get Epic Spellcasting (and Epic Skill Focus (spellcraft), obviously), and continue advancing as an Epic Incantatrix.

That's not a completely min/maxed build, but it will keep you at the "cutting edge" of metamagic all through your carreer, getting you all of the metamagic abilities you can possibly get. Since you're a sorcerer, you can apply all of your MM stuff spontaneously, which only enhances the "master of arcana" concept.
Cross Hatch
08-04-04, 12:09 PM Unless there has been some errata I don't know about, Sorcerers who take Mage of the Arcane Order can cast every spell.
Most people consider that a cheese combo though.
Jaerom Darkwind
08-04-04, 12:37 PM Originally posted by Cross Hatch
Unless there has been some errata I don't know about, Sorcerers who take Mage of the Arcane Order can cast every spell.
Most people consider that a cheese combo though. Well, it takes a full-round action to use, and in 3.5, at least, you've only got a 60% - 5%/spell level chance of finding the spell you want (minimum 5% for 11th-level spells). There's an epic feat that increases this to 95% - 5%/spell level (minimum 5% for 17th-level spells).
Beamup
08-04-04, 12:45 PM Let's put it this way - any rules loophole that let a Sorcerer have every spell on his list of spells known would be a mistake and would be errataed and plugged so fast your head would spin.
Koga:The ninja trick
08-04-04, 01:04 PM Spellcaster levels do not stack, if this were the case there would be no need for the mystic theurge prestige class..

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kerish Blackmoor 08-04-04, 01:45 AM	My D&D group and I have been discussing whether or not you could have the ultimate arcane spellcaster because we couldn't find the right details in the player's handbook. Here's the situation, if you had a 19th level sorcerer and for his 20th level he took a level in wizard, and with his massive wealth got a spellbook with every spell in it. technically he would "know" every spell and the players handbook says "sorcerers cast any spell they know without preparation." Or would you say that he would just be able to prepare a few extra first level spells and spontaneously cast the rest.
BlaineTog 08-04-04, 01:55 AM	His "Spells Known" are the spells he knows as a sorcerer, not those he gains from other classes. In short, no.
Mitchell 08-04-04, 02:10 AM	Wizards and sorcerors don't cast the same. Spells you may know as a wizard are spells that you know how to prepare and cast... Spells known as a sorceror are spells that you know how to cast without preparation, which is different. As BlaineTog said, sorcerors are limited to the amount of spells on the "spells known" table.
Jaerom Darkwind 08-04-04, 11:54 AM	Well, as they've said, no, your idea won't work. The only way to increase your sorcerer spells known is through the non-epic Extra Spell feat and the epic Spell Knoweldge feat. Neither of these will bring you anywhere close to knowing all of the arcane spells in print (which probably number in the thousands by now). If you want ideas for the ultimate arcane spellcaster, look at two of the NPCs in my sig. Alassra Silverhand is a sor/wiz combo and very good at what she does (she uses a custom PrC that really makes that combo viable). Larloch the Shadow King, on the other hand, is an Incantatar, and his powers of metamagic are second only to those of the gods themselves. He can do pretty much anything you can think of with a spell. If you want the best build for an ultimate arcane spellcaster, I'd say you should focus on metamagic. Use Sorcerer as a base (wizards learn more spells but get far less milage out of them, and have far less time to experiment with thie possibilities). Choose the most versatile spells you can find (multiple use spells are important, and you'll also need some solid damage-dealing spells that you can manipulate, like the classic fireball). Go for Incantatrix, where you'll learn all sorts of crazy metamagic abilities, and improve your ability to use the feats you've got (I'd recommend you get a lot of them). Finish up Incantatrix and go Archmage, snagging arcane fire, arcane reach, mastery of elements, mastery of shaping, and either mastery of counterspelling of arcane reach again. (If you do go mastery of counterspelling, make sure you've got Improved Counterspell to make it worth your while). Once you hit Epic, get Epic Spellcasting (and Epic Skill Focus (spellcraft), obviously), and continue advancing as an Epic Incantatrix. That's not a completely min/maxed build, but it will keep you at the "cutting edge" of metamagic all through your carreer, getting you all of the metamagic abilities you can possibly get. Since you're a sorcerer, you can apply all of your MM stuff spontaneously, which only enhances the "master of arcana" concept.
Cross Hatch 08-04-04, 12:09 PM	Unless there has been some errata I don't know about, Sorcerers who take Mage of the Arcane Order can cast every spell. Most people consider that a cheese combo though.
Jaerom Darkwind 08-04-04, 12:37 PM	Originally posted by Cross Hatch Unless there has been some errata I don't know about, Sorcerers who take Mage of the Arcane Order can cast every spell. Most people consider that a cheese combo though. Well, it takes a full-round action to use, and in 3.5, at least, you've only got a 60% - 5%/spell level chance of finding the spell you want (minimum 5% for 11th-level spells). There's an epic feat that increases this to 95% - 5%/spell level (minimum 5% for 17th-level spells).
Beamup 08-04-04, 12:45 PM	Let's put it this way - any rules loophole that let a Sorcerer have every spell on his list of spells known would be a mistake and would be errataed and plugged so fast your head would spin.
Koga:The ninja trick 08-04-04, 01:04 PM	Spellcaster levels do not stack, if this were the case there would be no need for the mystic theurge prestige class..