Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kels Hells 07-21-05, 11:39 AM	In the PHB 3.5... Druids are allowed the Wild Shape ability into any being that has the ANIMAL type associated to it. My question is this: Vermin such as Spiders, Centipedes, and all the insects/vermin... are all seemingly "Natural" beings, other than the fact that they are much larger than usual. If this is the case, would a Druid have the ability to change into these being as well with the Wild Shape ability??? I am playing an 8th Level Druid... and it seems only natural that these Vermin should be included in the Wild Shape repertoire, no??? Just curious, let me know your thoughts on this, folks.... :D
CzarGarrett 07-21-05, 12:15 PM	I think there's a feat out of Eberron that allows for such wildshaping, but I don't think Complete Divine has anything.
bjorntfh 07-21-05, 12:17 PM	It's called Vermin Wildshape and requires Child of Winter Initiate (anotehr useful feat.) It replaces normal wildshape with Vermin wildshape, which can be really nice considering most vermin have poisonous attacks.
AramilWindwalker 07-21-05, 12:20 PM	forget vermin... give me swarm wildshape!*explodes into pile of bunnies*
bjorntfh 07-21-05, 12:51 PM	I'd still prefer Ooze Wildshape... didn't Oozemaster get that? I mean really... how cool is that, you ready an action to change form and when they hit you you dissolve! (Just for the cinematics and all...)
farfairer 07-21-05, 01:12 PM	In the PHB 3.5... Druids are allowed the Wild Shape ability into any being that has the ANIMAL type associated to it. My question is this: Vermin such as Spiders, Centipedes, and all the insects/vermin... are all seemingly "Natural" beings, other than the fact that they are much larger than usual. If this is the case, would a Druid have the ability to change into these being as well with the Wild Shape ability??? I am playing an 8th Level Druid... and it seems only natural that these Vermin should be included in the Wild Shape repertoire, no??? Just curious, let me know your thoughts on this, folks.... :D Vermin are not allowed with normal wildshape. I belive there are tworeasons I think one reason is due to the materials used as inspiration for the game, but I am not sure. In many Native American mythology (as well as other similar cultures), insects are not considered to be animals. I believe that D&D druids borrow more from this mythology than from mythologies (like African) that consider insects to be good, powerful animals. The other reason is game mechanics realated. Most normal vermin are of a size catagory that a druid cannot attain. Only giant, and monsterous vermin are of aproprieate size. In order to have the ability to wildshape into a vermin, you need to be playing either Eberron or Forgotten Realms (or have a DM who will allow things from those settings). Eberron has the vermin wildshape feat (eberron campaing setting book), Forgotten Realms has the Vermin Keeper prestige class (underdark book). Alternativly, you could discuss with your DM a possible house rule to allow vermin shapes.
Kels Hells 07-21-05, 01:18 PM	Well the campaign we are playing is a mix of the following, I think: City of the Spider Queen Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil DM's own ideas (he has some wild ones) and another... But I suppose that all the points listed here are valid. My druid is a follower of Rillithane Rallathil and I am not sure he would qualify for the Child of Winter (not really in his character's nature)... though it is a seemingly interesting idea. Thanks for all the input though everyone.
Ninja Squirrel 07-29-05, 05:55 PM	:bump: There is a dragon wildshape ability
Manyfist 07-29-05, 06:23 PM	BOVD has Vermin Lord, which you can turn into Swarm Shape, I think. S.W.A.R.M build makes a very powerful build.