Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fallen_Universe 12-07-05, 08:04 AM	Since alcohol is a kind of poison, and paladins are immune to any kind of poison, can they get drunk? Or can they swig incredibly amounts of alcohol away like others do with water?
Derren S. 12-07-05, 08:06 AM	As you said alcohol is a poison and when you are immun to poison you can drink as much as you want and nothing happens.
nice2meetU 12-07-05, 08:24 AM	So think twice, guys, before you become a paladin. Some divine "gifts" might turn out as curses...
Lenarior 12-07-05, 08:32 AM	Remember though that alcohol also kill bacteria. It's not just any poison, it's a very usefull poison that keeps away deceases. A glass of wine a day is said to be good for the heart by many doctors. Also, to give a paladin a little extra bonus for always following such rigorous rules, you could say that the poison is what causes the liver to shut down and causes the hangover. Paladins can however take full effect of the funnier part of the alcohol. I do not champion drinking, I just provide oportunities.
runestar 12-07-05, 08:36 AM	I thought paladins were immune to disease, not poisons? But yeah, if you are immune to poisons, alcohol would have no effect.
Rulebook 12-07-05, 08:40 AM	paladins are indeed NOT immune to poison. its disease that cant touch them. so, if you have a very liberal Paladin's Code, you can get shloggered at the local tavern, take a few wenches to bed, and not have to worry about catching "Mummy Rot" (note the quotation marks... not the REAL mummy rot... wink wink)
Bob Loblaw 12-07-05, 09:09 AM	Alcohol is also not a poison, not even by DnD standards. While great amounts of alcohol can cause alcohol poisoning, in this case they are not refering the the fact that alcohol is an amino acid or protein (which poisons are); they are refering to the fact that you have now drank enough to die. But it doesn't really matter though, as has been pointed out, paladins are not immune to poison anyway.
Particle_Man 12-07-05, 09:56 AM	[Pit Fiend] Yes but you need a lava pit and an adamantine straw. [/Pit Fiend] :D :D :D
kalstrand 12-07-05, 10:09 AM	As a side note if you drink enough water and nothing else it can kill you. It is extremely rare because of the huge amount needed but it can happen.
Argon_Asimov 12-07-05, 10:30 AM	Remember though that alcohol also kill bacteria. It's not just any poison, it's a very usefull poison that keeps away deceases. A glass of wine a day is said to be good for the heart by many doctors. Yes, because killing all the bacteria in your digestive system is such a good thing. Oh wait, its not and you would get terribly sick and probobly die if that ever happened. :eek: Thankfully, alcohol won't really kill much of anything in the concentration that it occurs in in typical beverages (~5%). Now maybe if you started guzzling pure alcohol... well, thats another story entirely. As a side note if you drink enough water and nothing else it can kill you. It is extremely rare because of the huge amount needed but it can happen. I find that incredibly difficult to believe. As a catholic, I have personally fasted for nearly a week, consuming nothing but water, and know people who have gone longer. I really can't percieve of a quantity of water sufficient to kill you unless you were drowning in it. Remember, we are something on the order of 60% water by weight, and it is intrisic to nearly every major bodily function, on the macroscopic and microscopic scale, so I really can't believe that it could possibly be lethal by consumption alone...
Keenath 12-07-05, 10:39 AM	You can indeed die from hyperhydration. The actual cause of the problem is the huge amount of water leeching all the salt out of your system -- you NEED a good amount of salt (well, sodium) to keep your nervous system working properly. Lose too much, and your nerves start firing wrong, causing seizures that can be fatal. This usually only happens in two cases, though -- endurance atheletes who are sweating heavily and drinking only water with no salt intake (that's why sports drinks include "electrolytes", which means salt), or obsessive-compulsives who start drinking ungodly amounts of water, like gallons per day. Most people, even excercising heavily, will never even come close to sodium depletion, so sports drinks are generally unnecessary. If you're training for a marathon, you should probably drink one sports drink for every four bottles of water, or something on that scale. Well, Pallys are obviously not immune to getting drunk -- but what about the Monk and Druid? Venom Immunity or Diamond Body, he's immune to ALL poisons -- and I figure that includes alcohol!
Rocketboy13 12-07-05, 12:44 PM	A glass of wine a day is said to be good for the heart by many doctors. That is because of the grapes, not because of the alchohal. Alchohal is one of the few substances that can damage every part of your body because of the ease at which it enters the blood stream. :pint:
Thorak 12-07-05, 01:01 PM	That is because of the grapes, not because of the alchohal. Alchohal is one of the few substances that can damage every part of your body because of the ease at which it enters the blood stream. :pint: If that were true, doctors would recommend grape juice, not wine. Alcohol, like so many things, is only bad when taken to excess.
Milo HoBo 12-07-05, 01:08 PM	Yes, you can die from drinking too much water (I'm not talking about drowning). This is because the large quantity consumed all at once makes your brain swell and changes your water/sodium balance that your body maintains. However, it doesn't happen just because you drink only water, it happens because you drink so much water. Alittle different than how most people end up interpreting it. Monks are immune to poison, right? Wouldn't they be able to 'drink anyone under the table'?
monkmania 12-07-05, 01:16 PM	alcoholism is a disease... does divine health say anything about psychologicial vs physiological diseases?
Vestigial_Thumb 12-07-05, 01:30 PM	alcoholism is a disease... does divine health say anything about psychologicial vs physiological diseases? I think you could houserule Heal and Remove Disease to be able to remove, or at least depress symptoms.
Argamoth 12-07-05, 01:41 PM	I'd say that paladins can get drunk, but probably shouldn't. It's not very LG to get drunk all the time.
Plastic Sun 12-07-05, 01:52 PM	who said anything about getting drink all the time, I mean honestly a Paladin can get drunk if he wants, it not like every single aspect of his lift is consumed by his paladinhood or all paladins would have the same exact personality...
Rocketboy13 12-07-05, 02:14 PM	If that were true, doctors would recommend grape juice, not wine. They do. People are more open to the idea of consuming wine than juice, so they suggest it as a contemporary compramise. :)
Wharin 12-07-05, 02:17 PM	My DM's would allow the dwarven resistance to poison affect any saving throws involving alchohol as well. It just stands to reason that dwarves are hard to drink under the table. Particularly a Gold Dwarven Paladin (great CON, good CHA for divine grace, and +2 vs. poison).
Centauri 12-07-05, 02:17 PM	So, can a Monk with Diamond Body get drunk?
MarduktheDestroyer 12-07-05, 03:29 PM	dont forget wine also has anti oxidents which destry free radicals which is a good thing! in moderation of coarse. Personally, not know exactly the chain of processes which lead to drunkeness, that monks could feel the mind altering effect of alcohol, but not die from the ultra harmful alcohol poisoning part. Look at the drunken master after all :P
Feor 12-07-05, 04:29 PM	So, can a Monk with Diamond Body get drunk? There is the "drunken master" PrC...
Seeker of Undeath 12-07-05, 06:14 PM	There is the "drunken master" PrC...That's true, but if one were to have Diamond Body one could drink as much as is spacially possible. Diamond Body saves you from the fort saves vs. nastiness. Other than that you can use your rage-like class ability until your int&wis are 1 (you still go into a coma at 0). That said, I usually have very smart Drunken Masters. :D On a side note I imagine most fiends are actually evil due to the inability to get drunk. :(
Rabid Dire Wolverine 12-07-05, 07:05 PM	I would rule counts as a drug for purposes of saves. And I wouldn't mind pally's getting boozed up, but they will undoubtably to something against the code while inebriated if they do it regularly.
Argamoth 12-07-05, 07:13 PM	So paladins can get drunk, and still be paladins, but probably shouldn't.
malykoth 12-07-05, 07:51 PM	So paladins can get drunk, and still be paladins, but probably shouldn't. I would say so. Paladins really shouldn't get drunk...ever. I don't think it would endanger their paladin status, but it would negatively affect their reaction time, perception, memory, etc. and a paladin (even when not "on duty") should be ready to respond to danger or fight evil at all times. Depending on the specific paladin code, a social drink every now and then might be fine. I'm talking about being drunk here to the point of impairment. What's a paladin gonna say to his superiors if, say, a woman gets attacked in an ally and the paladin was either too busy puking to help or already passed out? It's just too irresponsible.
Pure_bordem 12-07-05, 08:18 PM	I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Become a elevn paladin and drink to your hearts content, just look at Legolas, he beat Gimli in a drinking contest and didnt even get funky after like 20 (YAY for extended scenes) :D
Rulebook 12-07-05, 08:51 PM	is an amino acid or protein (which poisons are) LIES. -venoms- are amino acids and protiens. otherwise how can Arsenic (a poisonous ELEMENT) be an amino acid or protien? or Cyanide?
Ruhl-Than Sage 12-07-05, 09:05 PM	LIES. -venoms- are amino acids and protiens. otherwise how can Arsenic (a poisonous ELEMENT) be an amino acid or protien? or Cyanide? On top of that Alcohol is organic anyway. It is made up of amino acids.
Rulebook 12-07-05, 09:18 PM	more lies. Alcohols are hydroxl groups, not amino acids. just because you can get alcohol from a source with amino acids, dosent mean that the 'hol itself will have it.
Ruhl-Than Sage 12-07-05, 09:24 PM	more lies. Alcohols are hydroxl groups, not amino acids. just because you can get alcohol from a source with amino acids, dosent mean that the 'hol itself will have it. OK, OK, but they are still poisons.
malykoth 12-07-05, 09:31 PM	OK, OK, but they are still poisons. Then the paladin would immediately lose his paladin status as soon as he drank the alcohol. He would, technically, be using a poison, right? Which (in D&D) is an automatically evil act. Oh, well...easy come, easy go. Might as well tie one on, right?
kalstrand 12-08-05, 12:23 AM	I would say they can drink alcohol just not to the point that it impairs them in anyway.
OctoberRaven 12-08-05, 12:29 AM	Once again, I must ask what we are all wondering... If a paladin got drunk, and woke up next morning next to an orc, what would happen?
Dire Celestial Bonobo 12-08-05, 12:47 AM	Then the paladin would immediately lose his paladin status as soon as he drank the alcohol. He would, technically, be using a poison, right? That's why he has the barmaid pour it in his mouth...
MobiusKlein 12-08-05, 12:48 AM	It is bad to give water in quantity to a newborn baby: Their kidneys are not advanced enough to excrete it fast enough, but they are still hungry & suck on anything.
MindWandererB 12-08-05, 01:45 AM	Most mechanical systems I've seen for alcohol in D&D treat it like a poison, doing Wisdom and sometimes Intelligence damage. If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. But you're right, it makes an odd interaction with the Drunken Master. Since the Drunken Master metabolizes alcohol differently than everyone else, presumably he figured out a way to get pleasantly buzzed without taking ability damage.
smoker 12-08-05, 02:04 AM	If the water is bad, you gotta drink. I think what you are really asking is: * can a Paladin drink in excess of their limit? I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long they don't drink and ride. ;) ;) smoker
DarkScythe 12-08-05, 02:57 AM	Naaaah, pallys shouldnt drink. They are waaaaaay toooo goody-goody to drink. How would he be able to save the damsel-in-distress then? As my friend says (which btw hates paladins): "they're way too impotent to be able to do anything, besides fightin evil!!!"
86gandalf 12-08-05, 04:02 AM	I am currently liveing in neutral zone on the material plane that alows no fighting at all. I still an living by the code and am fighting the forces of evil in other ways besides physicalliy fighting evil. I attended a party in my half- celestrial form with an escort. I drank wine but not in excess so that I would fit in with the others. A paladin can drink alcohol but not in excess. But if you had to get drunk delay poison may work for an hour depending on what your dm says.
Bobothebard 12-08-05, 07:56 AM	If a paladin drinks enough alcohol he gets ?.........yes, good boy that is correct, the paladin gets drunk! In the Return to the temple of elemental evil it refers to a paladin who is??? yes, good boy that is correct, the paladin is drunk! So paladin may get drunk, so does monks and wizards too....... infact only sober classes stay sober......hehehe Even the Drunken boxer occationally get drunk............
Far_Traveler 12-08-05, 09:11 AM	allow me to put in my interpretation: Paladins are immune to disease, not poison. a paladin can get drunk, but they would probably only drink alchohol as a beverage to quench thier thirst is clean water is not nearby Monks are immune to poison, but only due to intense control over thier systems. a monk can only get drunk if he wanted to Druids are just plain immune to all poisons due to thier affinity to nature. druids cannot get drunk, although one could reasonably say just for the entertainment of others that that can only get drunk if they wanted to Rule of thumb: when someone is immune to poison, note the scource in which they are immune to poison, interpret it from there. but for fun's sake, say that poison immune people can only get drunk if they want to
Millennium 12-08-05, 09:26 AM	If that were true, doctors would recommend grape juice, not wine. Actually, many doctors do recommend grape juice for various cardiac issues.
miiik 12-08-05, 05:30 PM	oh thank god my paladin can still get his beer goggles going
Retsej Esiw 12-08-05, 05:39 PM	Of course Paladins can get drunk! Give him enough ale and he will collapse. I think the question that should be asked is should they get drunk. That depends on the rules of the church, and more importantly, the DM.
nice2meetU 12-09-05, 09:01 AM	Once again, I must ask what we are all wondering... If a paladin got drunk, and woke up next morning next to an orc, what would happen? Probably a half-orc paladin in the next generation. His duty forbids him to kill the orc for no reason. So he has to care for the coming baby - poor pals, always on duty..., but abandoning one's child is definetly evil. :D Other option would be that, if the pal is male, the pal found out, he prefers other males. especially orcs because they are so much more manly than humans, elves, dwarves and halfings added together (so much testosterone). (hm, i think i got a new character)
Tor_Libram 12-09-05, 09:21 AM	so, if you have a very liberal Paladin's Code, you can get shloggered at the local tavern, take a few wenches to bed, and not have to worry about catching "Mummy Rot" (note the quotation marks... not the REAL mummy rot... wink wink)It would have to be really liberal to avoid losing Paladin status when contracting 'mummy' rot. ;) Sorry, couldn't resist that.
Khelvaster 12-09-05, 09:35 AM	I find that incredibly difficult to believe. As a catholic, I have personally fasted for nearly a week, consuming nothing but water, and know people who have gone longer. I really can't percieve of a quantity of water sufficient to kill you unless you were drowning in it. Remember, we are something on the order of 60% water by weight, and it is intrisic to nearly every major bodily function, on the macroscopic and microscopic scale, so I really can't believe that it could possibly be lethal by consumption alone... The problem is if you drink massive amounts of water in a very short period of time, your sodium-potassium ratio becomes disrupted, your sodium level falls too low, and your brain is unable to send signals because there is not enough sodium in your body, and thus you die.
Evil DM Mk3 12-09-05, 09:52 AM	What everyone hee is forgetting is that untill after the industrial revolution (and even then it is questionable) ale was the ONLY sorce of clean water. The alcohol killed off the bacteria in it. Of course day to day alchohol was barley alchoholic by todays standards due to the fact that it had to be cheap. As for what alchohol is, ethanol the only alcholohol (god my spelling is bad) that can be drunk without causing fatl death has the formula C2H5O. It is in fact a hydrocarbon, closer to petrol than a protein. There is nothing wrong with a Paladin drinking, or indeed a monk or druid, so long as he is responcable with it.
Wyrd Bearer 12-09-05, 11:08 AM	Then the paladin would immediately lose his paladin status as soon as he drank the alcohol. He would, technically, be using a poison, right? Which (in D&D) is an automatically evil act. Oh, well...easy come, easy go. Might as well tie one on, right?Ah, but I think not. While WE classify alcohol as a poison, do the people in the D&D world? Not unless the DM decided that there are potent doctors who have studied alcohol enough to determine that it is indeed a poison. Then the DM would be going deliberately out of the way to mess with the paladin. We would find the same DM removing a paladin's status for eating a tuna fish sandwich (which we all know contains mercury, a poisonous material). Paladin's can drink alcohol just fine. If they want to be hardcore ascetics, then they can deny themselves the pleasures of life, such as alcohol, good food and love-making (none of which are evil in of themselves, though religions will disagree with me). Now, if paladin over-indulgeded in liquor and caused a ruckus and resulted in an act where he'd lose his status, then he deserves the loss, as he knew darn well that drinking heavily would impair his judgement.
Oliver D'Argent 12-09-05, 11:24 PM	I have not been able to find any place in the rules that says that using poison is evil - Paladins are prohibited from using poison because it is not honorable. I think, also, that the prohibition implies using poisons on others to do them harm. There are a number of substances (alcohol included) that are technically poisons, but which can have a beneficial effect when used in small quantities. For me, I think that there would not be anything wrong with a Paladin having a glass of wine or a beer or two, but I think drinking to the point of impairment could be considered a Chaotic act.
legowarrior 12-09-05, 11:54 PM	I wonder if Paladins can become alcholic? Is it a disease?
WhiteRaven810 12-10-05, 12:23 AM	I wonder if Paladins can become alcholic? Is it a disease? This would be splitting hairs, but it's a disease of the brain. I don't think Paladin's are immune to mental afflections. Hmmm, should a DM de-Paladinize a Paladin for becoming a lush?
Keenath 12-10-05, 01:05 AM	As for what alchohol is, ethanol the only alcholohol (god my spelling is bad) that can be drunk without causing fatl death ...Fatal death? As opposed to the nonlethal kind? O.o
GypsyComet 12-10-05, 01:21 AM	As a side note if you drink enough water and nothing else it can kill you. It is extremely rare because of the huge amount needed but it can happen. Hyponatremia ("not enough salt"). Marathon runners are a fairly high risk group for this, actually, as all the sweating they do lowers their sodium levels while the roadside water they grab doesn't replace the sodium. It's why the veterans *aren't* grabbing water at every opportunity.
malykoth 12-10-05, 07:51 AM	I have not been able to find any place in the rules that says that using poison is evil - Paladins are prohibited from using poison because it is not honorable. I think, also, that the prohibition implies using poisons on others to do them harm. There are a number of substances (alcohol included) that are technically poisons, but which can have a beneficial effect when used in small quantities. For me, I think that there would not be anything wrong with a Paladin having a glass of wine or a beer or two, but I think drinking to the point of impairment could be considered a Chaotic act. Actually, I brought up the point that alcohol (being 'poison') was evil for a paladin to use...and I was kidding...
Oliver D'Argent 12-10-05, 09:34 AM	Actually, I brought up the point that alcohol (being 'poison') was evil for a paladin to use...and I was kidding... Ah, I see. It was not obvious that you were kidding. The Poison=Evil idea came up on another Paladin thread not too long ago.
Reighnhell 12-10-05, 11:02 AM	Such things as abstinance and celibacy I leave up to the player to define. a Lawful Good personality doesn't necessarily mean that the character is a ascetic (that sort of asceticism actually lends itself more to Lawful Neutral). So yes, for the most part, aside from the strictures of a particular religious order or their own system of belief, there is nothing in a Paladins code that would be violated by the occasional beer or the company of a willing partner. The problems would only arise if the booze or the socializing cause the Paladin to neglect his duties. Thus many Paladins are most likely ascetics, but there wouldn't be anything wrong with a Paladin who wasn't.
NightScreamer20 12-10-05, 02:08 PM	Almost off-topic but not really. In one game I had a Chaotic Good Halfling Cleric of Pelor... who was a party animal. HE drank, he smoked, he had the time of his wee little life. However, he decided to take tha path of the Contemplative. Although he still adventured and partied it up... he spent most of his time praying and meditation. My DM didn't like the fact that I was a Contemplative that was a party-animal on the inside... So when I got the ability to become immune to poisons.... He made me immune to Drunken-ness. Oh the horror ... the horror... *Holds up a drink for poor Bob Pipenbotle* So I just like the idea that No Poison = No Drunk...